Six Flags Cuts —What Happens When Cost Savings Kill Return Visits?

0:00 Oh right, here we go this week from our studios in Los Angeles and Tampa. This is Green Tag Theme Park and thirty. I'm Philip. He is Scott Twinson of Scott switzon creat Development. On Green Tag, we look at the top news each week and discuss why it matters to industry professionals. And this week we're talking about how six Flags stole Christmas. That sounds so mean, Philip sounds well, I don't know. I'm sure there's some people that are pretty upset about it. But well, that's all right, that's all right. We so let's start down the long list. You know, the twelve days that they took back from Christmas. I yeah, right, we're a little bit more than twelve in some parts. Yeah, so exactly.

0:41 This was a story that I'm not sure it really made national news because it is one of those things where six Flags has been canceling events across four parks, but different parks, and so I think the reason really didn't make national news is because it's spread out, and so we're going to. Tell me about impact regionally. It was impacting regionally, so it didn't make national news. However, this is an I guess we can say it international company now, so you know you got to kind of look at what the small stuff is doing. But I'm sorry I interrupted. Go ahead, and. We're going to be excerpting portions from Attractions magazine coverage, which pulled everything together and did kind of and did reach out for comments. So we're going to be pulling excerpts from Blake's work over there. But also, this is an article that was sent to both of us by multiple people specifically for us, and I think the lens for us to talk about it, I like best from Martin Pelicky, who sent it from in Park magazine. He sent it to me and basically he was asking us to discuss it where we always say that doing seasonal events and this type of thing is the best practice for theme parks. And here is six Flags who just talked about all of this great stuff on their investor day and now they're doing this and so is this going encounter to what we say or is it not going to counter? So I think that's a good lens.

2:04 It's great lends. It's a great line. As always, Martin has good insight. It's about this items. But I'll give details first maybe and we can go through each one, but so none of them really said why. The only one that really had a quote was from Great Adventure, and so at Great Adventure they canceled Holiday in the Park and the quote is After much research and planning, we've made a strategic decision to focus on delivering exceptional guest experiences during our core operating season spring through fall. This shift allows us to concentrate our efforts and resources during the time when the majority of our guests visit Great Adventure, and weather conditions can more consistently support our goal to deliver an enjoyable and memorable visit for all that's Great Adventure.

2:54 Stop there. We got to break this apart because that is the I'm sorry, I'm sorry. No, I don't normally get too wound up or too frustrated by this. That is so much malarchy that we're just gonna break it down sentence by sentence. Now it's the weather, Scott is I mean weather. Let's blame everything on the weather, and when they don't make their summer numbers, it's gonna be the weather's fault. But now it's the weather that the why they're getting rid of Christmas. So that's what we need we need a we need a sound effect. That is, every time a part blames something on weather, and we'll do a thunder and a thunderclap. I know this is a whole separate thing, and I don't want to, you know, but you know, the but no horror unleased in Chicago is going to be fine.

3:39 The weather's not going to be an impact at all. But weather's impact everybody else. I don't know, Like, yeah, but it's it's so so the weather. The weather excuse number one. Even more importantly, we really want to focus on our core audience and the core times that people are there. So before you haven't been. Is that what you're saying is that you've been letting the vast majority of your operating out. This is shit, you know, really, people really think about what you're saying here. Yep, And this is one So the reason this is so triggering for me is because I have lived through this. I have lived through this in my career where it looks good on paper to say, let's stop doing these extra things, let's cut back on our seasonal activations, and what ends up happening is you end up losing money and they don't know how to replace it. So what you're going to do is you're not going to really save that much. What you're going to do is lose return visitation. What you're really going to do is lose the value of your season pass, all right. So, because let's face it, passports, even if it's a separate ticketed event, having a passport always gets a discount of some sort, always, and so it reduces the value of your season pass, all right. So that's an important thing to take into consideration.

5:02 The amount that you're saving looks really good on paper. You can reduce your labor looks really good on paper. You can not invest in the strike, the storage, the reinstallation of your seasonal activation looks really good on paper. But what that translates into is fewer visits because guests don't come back, especially if you are a regional or a local park. Guess just decide, well, gosh, we won't normally we go normally we go to the park maybe twice over the summer, once for Halloween, once for Christmas. And when you say, okay, we're gonna cut Halloween, we're gonna cut Christmas. Okay, we'll go to the park twice instead of four times. That's fifty percent of your visitation. Now, these numbers are anecdotal, they are made up, but I have lived through this. I am hoping six flags. What this says to me is we're in trouble and we've got to make our stockholders really happy, really fast. So we're going to do something like get rid of Christmas or get rid of Halloween because it looks like a really big cut in the books. What's unfortunate is if this holds true as it has. Let's see, I've gone through this same challenge three times in my career, twice as a consultant and once as a actual member of a park, and it is going to backfire because what's

6:38 going to end up happening is they will have such depending on how popular the Christmas events were, they will have such a backlash that they will have no other option but to try to bring back something, try to salvage some sort of Christmas. And because they weren't planning to do it from the get go, they're going to have to do it fast. And you know you've heard me say it a million times, make it fast, make it cheap, make it good. Well, guess what if you want it fast? And good. It ain't gonna be cheap and it's going to end up costing them more money than had they not canceled it to begin with. So I'm sorry, Philip, you may continue now. Well, something I was going to ask is where's that line?

7:19 Because something we do talk about is. Kind of like. Knowing, I guess, looking at your assets and utilizing your assets and knowing when also to reinvest in, what to stop doing, and what to start doing, which is something you say all the time. But I think, like, where's the line in this? Because the only thing I was thinking about this is and again, I probably have more of the board mentality, so like Scott has the I'm in the entertainment team on the ground and I'm at the park because you've lived through it, and I'm more of the like executive suite, which is most of my experience. And so when I look at this, I could buy the argument only because of their operating calendar. If they usually close midway through November, they aren't even open until Thanksgiving, So how much time would they really have to monetize a Christmas holiday in the park experience? Because you're losing, well, you're losing, like I mean, all of December. I mean if you close halfway through November, which is their normal closing time period, is that enough time even to monetize.

8:28 Well, we're not talking about not doing a Christmas event that they've never done. We're talking about canceling a Christmas event that they have done so and they've already marketed too. They've already marketed, they already have that information. They've already spent the marketing money. Yeah, they've already spent the marketing money. So what this And people will say, yes, but it'll be just cheaper not to open the park. Well, if your park is in such bad state that the best way for you to make money is to close, you got other problems. It's not that's true. It's not Christmas. And I would talk to you, Philip, as the C suite guy, and say, how are you gonna make up for the lost of visitation? Yep, because you are. You're gonna lose visitation. And there is not a single person out there who is gonna find any way to logically disagree with that. Oh no, people will come even if we don't have a Christmas event. No, they won't. Not if you're putting all your focus, as your statement says, putting all your focus on the summer and fall when the vast majority of your guests are coming. Well that, yes, that is true, but Christmas and Halloween is when they come back. So if you can survive on one visit from your guests per season, great, good choice.

9:44 Well, I'm still trying to puzzle it out because if they normally, I don't know when their operating encounter. I looked it up and I don't think it's even been announced the or their closing data. I couldn't find it. But so I'm sure people are listening probably know. But my understanding is it closes mid to late November this park in particular, So if Halloween runs until November second or third, then it's like one or two weeks. So I think. So what you're saying is if basically no one's going to come during those weeks at all, it's going to just completely drop off because there's no reason to because there's no Christmas event for them to see.

10:25 And if they had, if they had been able to stay open, you would have gotten one extra visit because people want to come and see Christmas before everything closes. So you're going to just completely those two weeks will be completely. Dead or whatever. Assuming that if they even open, that's the next question, are they even are they planning on just you know, like with seasonal parks, quite often they will, as you mentioned, they'll do a Halloween event, then close for a couple of weeks, reopen a Christmas event, and then close for the season. If they're just saying they're going to close at the end of their Halloween event, then where are they going to replace or where are they going to make up all of the attendants they're losing during the Christmas event. Now I don't have access to this data. So if the data is such that they were losing money I mean losing money hemorrhaging money on their Christmas event, then perhaps yes it is best to just not do it. But I don't think that's the case. Yeah, I think, but I don't think that's the case.

11:22 Again, playing the sweet C suite role, I can pretty clearly see the argument of like that's probably had That probably actually was the argument. The probably argument was like why should we set up all this Christmas stuff when we're not even going to be opened through Christmas at this particular part. We should just shut it down and reallocate that budget to a different park that is going to be open for Christmas, and that way we can have a better return at a different property and encourage these people to drive to that place, or you know, if they really want to do at Christmas, we can drive to the near next nearest place and we'll put more money into that. So are you going to get it? Are you going to give them a discount with your season pass if they don't have the almighty Grand six Flag season pass? Yeah?

12:05 So are you gonna give them a gas? Moneber? I remember what they said in this story, but I know in some of the other at some of the other parks they were allowing someone to take if they had a ticket already for the cancel thing, or if they have a season pass and they canceled the event, they're allowing them to go to a nearby thing. But your point about like then they have to drive and they still have to like pay for cat So it's not like it's free and family. Yeah, it's not a one for one swap here. Yes, yes, that's true. Yeah, so that's interesting. I'm sure that that kunt of argument. I'm not sure if it was made who knows, But like, that's the interesting I can I can tell you. It just looks really good because all they looked at was, oh, we can save this money and we can save this that's exactly gave this money and we can save this money.

12:47 And I it sounds the projected revenue. Basically, they looked at the cost saving. They looked at the cost savings, did not compare it with the projected revenue, or maybe they did. And like I said, their Christmas events are in a bigger hurt than I would anticipate them. But that's a problem that they should that's a bigger p that's a much bigger problem. That's a much bigger problem. Too much bigger problem. So again I am hoping, I'm hoping that they're looking at this going, well, this is this is this is the sacrificial lamb that we're going to throw to make our books look right for the year. But then they look at going, oh my god, we got to bring this back now having made this announcement, and if they intend to go down this path, my recommendation, based on my experience, is when you have that moment where guests are saying, you've ruined my holidays forever. You've made my children. You've ruined my children's Christmas because we went every year, and you're going to get at least one of those, if not hundreds of them. Do not try to bring it back this year. Bring it back next year with grand glory and excitement. We love you. Please come back for Christmas, because if you have to bring it back the same year, you're gonna spend twice as much and you're gonna get half the bang for the buck. So you're basically gonna shoot yourself in the foot twice. Number one for canceling Christmas and number two for bringing it back in appropriately.

14:16 The idea here is, and again I'm not saying this just because as a consultant, I do holiday I do seasonal activations. I'm not saying it because of that. I have seen it work significantly more times than it not work. And if you know, I like to think about it as you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater here. If you've got a Christmas event that is not is not turning a profit, because again, the only way this actually saves money is if the event itself is not profitable. Yep, And which is the problem if you can't make money off Christmas, there's there's a bigger problem.

14:58 There's a much bigger problem. Yeah. So your argument is even if it's early, because I don't even know when people start, you know, that's the thing. I think people start celebrating Christmas pretty early, so I think it would still yeah, yeah, exactly. Most most Christmas events that I work on in the smaller the smaller parks start maybe the week before Thanksgiving because it gives them a little bit of time to change over from Halloween. But you know, look at look at Disney, they have two night starts. They have a two night changeover. Yeah. Yeah, they start like I think November eighth this year's Yeah, well so looking let's look at some of the there's three other parks that are doing different and they're all different reasons. So six Flags over Georgia. It also cancels Holiday in the Park. And this is a little bit different because it's actually going to continue operating through November thirtieth, so this is going through Thanksgiving, but they're still canceling Holiday in the Park and instead what they're going to do is a debut a new event called Heroes Fest starting November ninth, and they said, it's a celebration of your favorite heroes alongside everyday heroes in our local community.

16:10 So this is like I feel like it's almost worse in a way because like they're not it's not like they're not doing anything. They're like, we're gonna do a event, but it's going to be this and the event isn't even going to start until November ninth, so like it's only going to be a several week event anyway, but it's not Holidays in the Park, which already has brand recognition and all. The things you just said. And it's also. Like not going to start right after Halloween, so you're still missing that like between the days of whatever they in hallowbeing November two and the ninth. That week, no one's gonna go so like what somebody went to Gaylord and said, Hey, look they're having great luck with superheroes, let's do that. Uh no. I So with this one, maybe that is what happened. Crazier things, you know, goof for your things happen sometimes with this one, again, I think it is I think it is misguided, but at the very least they're not getting rid of a seasonal activation, they're replacing one with another, now does it?

17:20 Lad they do it when they've already marketed an announced holiday in the park, Like why, Like again, why wouldn't you I guess because of the merger and they didn't have the time, I guess to do it, But like, what wouldn't you think wouldn't you think the way to do it would be this year? Just do the holiday in the park and then say next year we're going to have this event instead, instead of like marketing a thing and then canceling it and then doing a new thing, which now you have less time to market, Like what, why would you have done it this way instead of waiting until next year? Well, the only thing I can think of is because now they're only going to be opened through November thirtieth. I would have imagined if they were going to do holidays in the park, they would have been opened through Christmas week or through you know, January first. So it's trimming operations, trimming an operations calendar, which means thirty days less of earning revenue. Yeah.

18:11 Right, So that's something interesting because I keep thinking about does this track with what they had said during the investor day? And I want to say, it kind of does track because they did mention an investor day about how they were going to be optimizing the operations calendars, and so I think maybe we didn't interpret it in this way, but you could look at this as optimizing. I mean, whether or not to your point, whether or not they're correctly calculating the lost revenue or they're just looking at costs, that's a different question. But like basically they're saying this, these parts are not worth operating in these weeks. And so because these are not operating in these weeks, we're not going to put the holiday events on them.

18:58 Yeah, and the idea of you know, getting the most clicks of the turnstile, which is something else they were very adamant about. They're going to expect those without providing anything new or unique to bring people back, right not. I think that's that's the fallacy in all of it. Yeah, that's definitely. And also I think you make a good point where it's like you would think that if they were going to ever make money at any point, it's going to be during Christmas. Well, Like, again, each of these regional parks has their own unique challenges, their own unique competitions, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. It is possible. It is possible that six See now I sound more like me because I'm being a little more Switzerland here, but it is possible that with six Flags over Georgia. The reason they're not doing a Christmas event is because they can't compete with all of the other local Christmas events. There's already you know, stuff around them. I don't know what their competition would be, but there's already enough stuff around them that people are all committed to that they figure, well, gosh, we don't really need it, but let's do let's do at least something heartfelt, which is superheroes. But I'm not quite sure hero Fest it's a celebration of our favorite heroes alongside everyday heroes in our local community. Are these IP heroes?

20:20 Are these made up heroes? I think it's both. It's like it's like the local teacher, but also with like Superman. Right, Well, I mean I know that they have I know that they have that the Six Flags has IP relations with you know, Batman, Flash, Yeah, DC DC generally speaking. Yeah, Well, I wonder if it's it could be a competition thing. I you know, you're right at the could be competition, But then it goes back to the idea of value of the season past, which you mentioned earlier, like if it's free, I mean, the thing about the competition is that they have to pay to go to any other event. But in theory, if you're going based off of the theory of the just the turnstile clicking, it should be free to go to holiday in the park.

21:08 So again it's a value add where like you just get an extra event for the past, were already. Paid, no reason, now you don't get back. Yeah, another reason for people to come back, but at least they're replacing it with something. Yeah, so someone who's not replacing anything. So let's go to Michigan's Adventure. At Michigan Adventure, the family friendly Tricks and Treats event is canceled for twenty twenty five, and it will shorten its operating season as well entirely. The final day of its twenty twenty five calendar is now September first, So I think this one is more Again, it's a smaller part. I mean again, it's a really small, smaller regional park. So this really could just be that.

21:49 This is the pendulum swinging back. This is the pendulum swinging back, and Michigan Muskegan by September first, it's pretty cold, yep, pretty chill, so this could be weather related. The interesting thing to me is it's the tricks and treats event that is canceled. Yeah, it's it's the lighthearted, family friendly event that every park thinks they want to do for Halloween that is canceled, so once again shortening their operating calendar, shortening their opportunity to earn money, and eliminating something that would bring people back, especially people with young children. Now there is there are many different schools of thought on how do you handle your target audience. Do you do you aim at your low target for Christmas and your families for I'm sorry, and your older target for Halloween or do you flip flop that or do you do them all? And there's a gazillion different reasons to do it, a gazillion different ways. So that's that's just depends on the park with this one. It's what I'm seeing here, and maybe I'm wrong, but what I'm seeing here is we have to make a radical cut. The only thing we can do is shorten our season, and we can't do trick or treat before September first. So really, what they're doing here is this is not a canceling of a seasonal event. This is a shortening of the park

23:21 operating calendar. Yep, yep, because something, something is so far amiss that they've got to find a way to fix some sort of financial leak they have going on. That's what this seems like to me. Now maybe I'm wrong. I don't sit on their board, so. Yeah, it's and plus, I would say it looks like it's a pretty small I was trying to find numbers for when they when they There are no published numbers that I could find easily, but in eleven, twenty eleven and a million attendance annually, But that was twenty eleven. Then we've had like ups and down.

24:01 Oh yeah, so yeah, it's not a huge park. Right. So well, not only not only are they shortening their calendars or getting rid of seasonal activations, aren't they also changing their There's one we didn't talk about. Oh there's one we didn't talk about. Okay, yes there's one, And I said it for the end because I think this one is the one that has the most uh, makes the most sense. So in six Lags of America, Okay, so remember six Lags America is the one that is like permanently closing. Okay, so this one is six Lags America is permanently closing. At the conclusion, there was twenty twenty five season and what they said was they're canceling Fright Fast for this So FrightFest was supposed to be the last thing to ever happen at the park, and it's closing permanently on November twod So basically it's just done, like there's going to be no Fright Fast, no event, no anything. So but I think I can see it on one end, like this park is closing. So what I would say, if we're looking back our previous conversation, the board is probably thinking this is closing anyway permanently, so why would we spend money on Freightfast. But then I think Scott's point is like, then why would anybody come to your park before it closes.

25:18 Well, they may be opting on they may be relying on the fact that there's a nostalgia that we well, we've got to go before it closes, and they're not they don't need their Halloween event to do that. It'll be oh, it'll be our last chance to do this, It'll be our last chance to do I mean, look at at Walt Disney World. Here the people the attendance at Magic Kingdom for the last day of riding the paddle boat, you know, before that closed to become cars. So they they may be playing on the nostalgia. To me, it's short timers. They they're just looking at it going, well, we're closing anyway, why should we Why should we bust our butt to do this. Let's let's just you know, not do it. Plus, I think staffing would be a challenge, that's true. There's no longevity, you know, the parks going away, so I don't know how they would staff the I get the additional staff they would need to do Fright Fest.

26:11 So this one you think makes the most sense. This one does need to make the most sense because the park's closing. All they're really doing and permanently, So all they're really doing is closing early. Yeah yeah, so then they're not they're not losing any like ip thing with the other parts because you're not going to reopen pfast there. Yeah, they're they're they're closing early, and in that case it may it may actually save them money. But speaking of saving money, if you are a fan of Six Flags, aren't they adjusting their ticketing as well? So they're running a sale right now also, which is interesting that these are done at the same time. And I feel like it's an interesting push where you have these parks where they're only in these three instances right but in these three instances you're losing perceived value because of the season passes, because of the canceled events. How they are doing a new promotion right now. They finally put on sale the most valuable pass, which is the one that includes all of the parks, So it's on sale.

27:11 It's a special sale that's happening right now through September first, and during this time, anyone who purchases a Gold or Prestige Tier twenty twenty six pass will get admission to your park that you get your your main park. You'll get that admission for the rest of this year and for next year and all other Six Flags own parks four, twenty twenty five, and twenty twenty six. Plus we'll get a bring a Friend ticket to use in twenty twenty five, one for Gold and two for Prestige, and most of them also include parking. So the prices range because you do have to have a home park, so the prices range from like roughly seventy to one hundred and twenty.

27:52 A NAS is like one hundred and twenty for that for that. But so that's basically and I'm thinking about it at Notts, I'm like, well, one hundred and twenty if it includes parking and gets you like a bring a friend deal and includes all of the rest of twenty twenty five and all twenty twenty six. I mean, that's like, that's. I'm thinking about it, and I don't even have a local Knots park. Yeah, I mean a perfect example when when Eric and I went to Great America, we bought a season pass because we bought a season pass during one of these sales. It was during one of these sales, and the season pass was the price of a single admission. Yeah, and we were going to be there two days, so we bought a season pass and didn't pay for parking.

28:38 And it's crazy. So yeah, let me let me just point this out. If you have a pair of genes that cost one hundred dollars and you mark them down to ten dollars, They're no longer one hundred dollars pair of jeens. They are now a ten dollars pair of jeens that you're going to overcharge for later exactly so, and again this is based on personal experience. I have seen parks that have decided we just need to click the turnstiles. We'll make all that money back in food and beverage and in revenue and or in merchandise revenue and you know, upsell and alat of it. It has it has taken some parks a very long time to recover from this. This is this is devaluing the park.

29:29 I mean, just by definition, they're saying that it is it is worth our parks are only worth seventy five dollars for full and complete admission every single day for like two years, two years, even less for two years, so I mean, and even at one hundred and twenty, yeah, you know, even at one hundred and twenty. Yeah, that's I think that's the biggest problem with this is something I'm not sure we've talked to much about the show, but it's the whole discount strategy. I know. I used to talk about this whenever I teach a marketing even with Haunters. You're like, everybody always wants to be like, let's do a discount ticket, and I'm like, do not do that, because then, like even if you if any if it comes from a point of good things, So like say you want to do a discount for your military members or your local high school or you know, I mean, there's so many good causes, and I'm like, I appreciate that sentiment, channel that sentiment into giving them more value, to treat them more special because of that.

30:31 So find a way to say, if you're a service member, then we're going to actually give you a free fast pass instead and make it added value. Always add value, never take value away. And then or even for service members, for every ticket sold, you can bring a family member for free. Oh see that's even see do that instead, Like this is this is one of those things where you're like, I know you want to encourage it's supplied demand. I know, we know you want to encourage the ticket turnstiles and all that that Scott said. However, I do also agree this is the wrong way to do it, because all you're doing is devaluing the long term value of the parks, because what's gonna happen in a few years when you've spent all this money renovating and then you're gonna say it's worth more because of all the renovations.

31:16 But everyone else is not going to agree, right, And I'll go so far as to say, I've taken what I've learned from what I will call failed pricing structures in other parks, and yes that is plural, in other parks. I've taken what I've learned from there and actually applied it to my own pricing structure for my consultation fees. I will not I do have different tiers based on what the organization is, because that's matching the level of it's meeting my clients where they live. Okay, But I will not change the price of something. I may discount it if they book more things like I will do a quote that will say this is then I will on top of this, I'll give you a twenty percent package discount if all of these if you sign a contract for all these things, the moment they decide to break that up, that twenty percent discount goes away. So it is as you say it is a value add not a my services are worthless. And the moment you say your park is worthless, it takes you years and years and years to recover from that. So I'm hoping that this sale doesn't become a permanent sale. I'm hoping that they can get because the reason you do sales like this is because you are cash poor. You need an influx. You need an influx of money. Now, so you decide, well, let's kick the can down the road a little bit. But what's going to happen? And I have seen it happen before. You get a seventy five

32:47 dollars two year pass, it expires, and you're trying to charge full price again, you know, three hundred and fifty dollars, and all of a sudden they're like, well it was seventy five two years ago. What I'm not going to do that. Let's go somewhere else. It will happen. It will happen. So I'm hoping that they've got a great strategy. I have to say, and you may not hear it, I actually thoroughly enjoy six Flags Parks. If it weren't for six Flags Great America, I would not be a theme park nerd. I grew up in those parks. I just recently went back to those parks and Six Flags looked great, by the way, really clean, not terribly well attended, but but everything was working, everything was running, The park was immaculate, the the staff was okay, they're pretty good.

33:41 So I love Six Flags parks. I just hope you're not making a big mistake, that's all. So we're at a time speaking of a big mistake. We've gone on. We're way over time. So again it hit a trigger with me. So I apologize folks, and thank you everyone for sending this to us. Yeah, we appreciate. Yes, you knew it would trigger me. You knew it would trigger me, so you were right. This is Green Tag Theme Parking thirty and on behalf of Philip Heernandez and myself Scott Swinson. We'll see you next week.