Universal Kids Resort: What Is Universal Thinking?

0:01 Oh my goodness. From our studios in Los Angeles and Tampa. This is green Tag Theme Park in thirty. I'm Philip from Ganta Mighty and Controls, and I'm joined as always but my delightful co host, the amazing Scott Swinson of Scott Swinson Created Development. Here on green Tech, we look at the top news each week and we explain why it matters to industry professionals in the themed entertainment in the theme park space. And this week we have been asked by many people, and of course it is the major news is that a Universal Kids res wort has opened for press previews. We have a lot of coverage, both video and written coming out from Universal's newest foray into the family market, I guess in the DF in the Texas region. Right, So we'll talk about that and then we'll just see how far we get with other stories, right, Yeah, so right. I honestly don't know how long this is going to take because it's kind of like on its surface, I think that we all kind of know that nobody seems to like it, as in from a visual or from a that standpoint, But I think it's I guess I would like to approach. It just me personally from the nuance of like, this is meant for kids, so we kind of have to take our adult hats off and say, this is meant for kids like five to nine, and it's meant to be a local family park. Just a lot of interesting things, like the park has weird zoning requirements with the city, so it's not allowed to open till ten am, and most days it closes at five pm.

1:30 On weekends seven or eight pm. Targeting kids. That's completely fine. Right, except that it is there's no shade and it's really hot in Texas. I haven't gone there yet, yeah, So I think it's also I think it's also important to recognize though, that this is you know, Universal has a bunch of different buckets that they operate in, and this is not necessarily even in the theme park bucket. This is in the I can't remember what they call it, but the outreach bucket this falls under the same buckets is Monsters, Monsters Unleashed, No, yes, the biggest. Thing horror yeah.

2:11 Is the riot yeah yeah yeah, and Horror Unleashed is yeah. So I think it's that's interesting parallel. I think these are similar in that I think the biggest issue, Like I don't, I don't objectively. Speaking for I was gonna say, before we start, before we start dissecting this, Philip, maybe we should talk about what people are saying about it. I mean, let's let's start there, because I I think that we can justify away all of the not so positive comments. But let's hear what some of the positive comments are. Number One, no shade, and I've heard that multiple times. I've read that multiple times. Obviously I was not at the press preview, so I did not see it, but that is what I have heard many many times. And I think the term under themed has come up several times.

2:59 Right, I think the those are the biggest, So lack of shade and under theming have seemed to be the biggest. Also, everyone calling it like a like like it's on theming for a prison, or that it is it's a Timu park, or it's what happens when, uh, you know, you build a theme park using Amazon delivery services. You know, there's a lot of. Like people kind of pointing out that it's very basic. You know, a lot of the like the the Shrek ride is basically just flats you know that are that are propped up and painted, and a lot of people saying it looks like someone's backyard, like they their neighbors do better, better rides, So there's a lot of that going around. On the split side, it sounds like most of the people that took children like the children seem to have fun. But of course the biggest counterpoint to that is that that age group has fun with anything. So I think that's that's more the lens I wanted to analyze it on is like, here's what people are saying, but these are all adults. The kids are having fun, and the kids, of what matters, accept that, which is fine.

4:05 So in that way you could say it was successful. Accept that. I think you need to look at it in the context of families in the area, and that's what I researched most is thinking about let's assume that those kids love it. Okay, great, but those kids probably also like cardboard boxes that you know, they could just hang out in. Like I mean, this is the perfect this is the perfect example of Christmas morning where you you open the big toy and the big toy gets Oh, I got the big toy, and the rest of Christmas Day is spent playing in the giant box that it came in. So that's exactly how I was thinking about this, right, Yeah, so that's that's what I. Looked at it. You also you also have to recognize when when the first when the first Lego End Parks opened, some of the same comments came out. Is that you know, this is not this is not fully fully envisioned, this is not fully fleshed out. But the kids don't care. The little kids don't care. I also think that I also think that Universal is its own worst enemy in the fact that it put the Universal name on it. Now, I will say, because people have come to expect very high quality, the cutting edge animations, animatronics, that sort of thing.

5:19 Uh a lot of a lot of high end whiz bangery. And I think that it's interesting because the things that happened with Epic Opening and people, the things that people didn't like about Epic Opening are some of them are very similar. But it's also like you know, you've heard me rag on the on the Monster's ride at Epic because they've got great animations, great animatronics next to pipe and drape, it seems unfinished. Now had the whole thing been flats and I would never have noticed the pipe and drape. So they've set up their expectations for their for the Universal park goers to be so very high that when you see the name Universal attached to the park and it's not that level, you kind of go, oh, it's that.

6:10 Well, I think it's I agree with you. What I want to add is another dimension, which is something that was brought up by Theme Park Insider where they basically here's the quote he said before we got into the park. A representative from Universal said this park was meant to be a gateway to the immersive thematic experiences the company has become known for. They also said that this was meant to be a gateway to the bigger, better resorts offered in Orlando and Hollywood. I think the problem is our perspective as industry people is that this is an embarrassment. That's that's I think that's pretty universal. I don't think anybody that's a professional would say this is not embarrassment from a from a theme park theming level. However, if you think about it, just as local families that have never been to a Universal, maybe they have a different mindset. But to your to the point you were just kind of making. It's like, is is this park two under themed to represent Universal as a brand? So will it actually end up discouraging people from going to So Universal just said that Epic is going to make them a week long vacation, so you could go there.

7:16 So in theory, you know, you could see what Universal just said. The representive said, it's become a gateway to the immersive thematic experiences the company has come known for. If this is if your local and you go to this park and you're like, oh, this is what Universal is, I'm not sure you're gonna now decide to pay for a week long vacation to go to Orlando if you think that this is what Universal is. So I think that's I think that's that's where I'm going. That's right, That's where I'm going. And and why I'm what I'm wondering is you know, and again perhaps hindsight is twenty twenty, but if I'm looking at it going Okay, we're not going to quite invest in the A level theming, the A level attractions that people expect from the Universal brand. Why wouldn't they have opened it under an umbrella company? Why wouldn't they have opened it and just make it and just make it, you know, even if they called it epic, epic kids resort or fun Fun, something Universal aligned, I don't know, but not make it because I mean, we all know that that there are brands and sub brands for pretty much everything, and you know, the top line, the top line brand is going to be the top line brand.

8:32 If you can introduce people to the brand without saying this is the be all and end all, it does then serve that purpose. I will say that this quote that you just shared with us, to me, this sounds like, oh my god, we have to come up with an excuse as to why it looks like this, And you know why it looks like this, I don't know. I do not believe, in my heart of hearts that this was the intent. I do not believe that it was designed to be a lesser than Park. I think the intent was to make it something that was that would represent the Universal brand. But for some reason, be that budgetary or timeline or I mean, we all know the challenges.

9:14 That can happen, ended up being. Absolutely I mean, there's a million and one things. There's a million on reasons for it. What it sounds like to me is and I know, Philip, you and I experienced this when we were in when we were in Riod. It sounds like the kind of attractions that they put up in Boulevard City, which are temporary and they represent high end brands, I mean, really well known ips. It's sort of it's sort of like the five Nights at Freddy's that we went through. It's like, is does this represent the level that five Nights at Freddy's really deserves? No, it doesn't. It's flats and it's mediocre characters and it's, you know, kind of a rundown rinky dinkie side show attraction.

10:00 But it's got the big IP. So it sounds as though they're trying to hide behind the IP. But what's ending up happening is it's undermining the IP. It's making the universal name less than and to act as a bridge. It's a bridge that's rickety that I don't think anybody wants to cross. Yea. I think the problem is with brands like this, you can't normally go backwards, right, so you can't. It's like they're trying to go backwards, and I think that's harder to do, like Toyota can go forward and make a premium brand, right, and I think Universal has spent the last decades right going more premium like Epic represents them going forward, but now they're like in both of these cases, which has been the major complaint with Horror leashed as well, is that I think it's again to your point, it's all branding. It's like you had a brand that you've established through Epic as premium, and now you're trying to go backwards and make a like a tmub version, you know, kind of a thing which I think just is not normally brand just can't do that. It's not successful to go backwards like normally can only you can only start and then go premium, so like six Flags can go premium, like six Flags can make the conjuring as a premium experience and everyone loves it because they can go forward, but you can't normally ratchet backwards. And I think that to your exact point, the only way that this would have been successful other than the pricing, which we're going to have to get to. But the pricing and the

11:30 branding I think are the two major problems, and it should have just been like the kid's experience, you know, or and it should have just been a different horror name. They shouldn't have called it Universal Horror least because again, then they're comparing it. The problem is they put themselves into their own a box or their own making, because this is being compared to theme parks when it shouldn't be compared to a theme park. Same with Horror Unleashed is being compared to Horroronized when it shouldn't be because it's not horrornized and it shouldn't be. But the brand themselves, though, they get up on all these panels and they themselves compare them to themselves, which I just I don't understand. Like I'm like, you guys need to stop, and you just need to make a separate company, like you're saying a shell company, and that's what it is. But I also want to get to the pricing. This is I think the bigger part. So I always, you know, as the CEO, I think my major job is thinking about strategy and thinking about competitive mixes and you and I've talked a lot about that about just understanding your simple product offering in the market.

12:31 And so that's what I did. I did a full competitive analysis of the local market with by driving time local things up to an hour away. And the tl DR version. Is that this experience is fifty percent more expensive than almost every other experience meant for that same target group, and all of those experiences are higher rated and indoors or offer some sort of shade mitigation, and in some cases like the Frisco has free splash pads and parks that are just free. And so if a. Family is spending two hundred and twenty to three hundred and twenty dollars, because the price point here is the cheapest you know, on a weekday is fifty five, it goes up to eighty dollars per person on Labor Day weekend, which means you're spending a family four is spending roughly two hundred and twenty dollars to three hundred and twenty dollars before parking or food just for one day versus fifty dollars two one hundred and thirty. So like fifty to two hundred and twenty, that's the difference here, and I think that's the problem. The problem is it's twice as expensive as it should be. It needs to at least match like you meferenced Lego Land. Lego Land is thirty dollars and this is eighty. It it doesn't it doesn't make sense like it. I'm sorry, it doesn't make like six Flags over Tech. Look at all these competitors, six Flags over Texas, six Flags Hurricane Harbor. There's Resort Waters Indoor water Park. There's a Great Wolf Lodge which has started selling season passes that you can go to.

14:00 There's the family water parks. There's this first Go water Park. There's Fort Worth two. There's a Dallas Zoo, There's Dallas World Aquarium. There's Sea Life grape Vine, There's Leyland Discovery Center. There's Pepa Big Right, there's Urban Air Adventure, there's Crayola Experience, there's museums, there's the free parks, there's zoos. Like the I did the full analysis and it's like it's just not being fifty percent or more than every other offering for this target market within the driving range. Doesn't make sense. I'm sorry. Well, and and again I think I think that the I think that the pricing is based on uh, it's it's based on the universal name. But when the universal name is not supporting the universal product. Then you you know, you get them in once and then you don't get them back again. And not only does it undermine the success of the Universal Kids resort, it also undermines the bridge concept bigger and better things. You know, it goes back to it goes back to many many years ago.

15:04 You know, I know we've talked I have to say six Flags at least once, because if I don't, then it's not our show, it seems. But going back a long long time ago, before long before the merger, when six Flags was going through one of its expansions and they were buying up every property they could possibly find for the properties that they didn't feel were up to the six Flags standard that didn't meet the six Flags minimum standard, which you know at the time was pretty low anyway, but they they would they would call it by its original name and then in very small print they would put a six Flags property. So that's what Jiaga Lake was. For example, it was Jiaga Lake, a six Flags property. Now, of course Yoga Lake no longer exists, but uh it. It was one of those situations where they didn't lead with the six Flags because they didn't want that brand. I'm gonna call it. I'm not even gonna call it brand confused, and I'm gonna call it brand degradation. They wanted to make sure that the people knew that they were coming to a park that was fun, and they may or may not pay attention to the fact that it was run by six Flags. If this had been the Frisco Kids Resort, a universal property, that would have been a completely different story. That would have been a completely different story. To me, it's a branding issue.

16:25 To me, it's a branding and a marketing situation. Yes, the pricing is outlandish, but I will say that, you know, at the FFA show, the Florida Attractions Association Show, when we were looking at what PGAV and other survey companies were bringing to the table, they said, you got to look at zoos and museums and aquariums a lot more seriously as competitors, because when you're in a cost sensitive market like we are right now, family with kids, the kids again putting on your kids goggles and taking off your adult hat. Kids are just as excited to go to the zoo and watch the squirrels as they are to go and see a Shrek ride that is made of flats and cardboard.

17:17 So that's that's exactly the point. Right. Well, I think everybody who is arguing that the kids like it, I'm not disagreeing with that. So if you look at that lens, if your only metric is that the kids like it, then I think it could be counted as success because the kids like it. But then my counter to that would be exactly what you're saying. Kids like anything at that age, and then it becomes for the parents. Okay, if the kid's going to be happy with any of these experiences, why are we paying twice the price? And also it's going to be in the heat when the aquariums are covered, you know, when there's actually shaded zoos, like every other attraction in this area has plenty of climate mitigation, and it's at least half, if not less than half of the price. So why so why if the kid is going to be happening no matter what, why are they going here?

18:09 Right? And I mean, let's let's just to sum it up and and simplify it even more. Kids will have a blast to go and play in the junkyard, but mom and dad ain't gonna go with them. So you know, you got to make sure that that when we talk about a family audience, and this is something that is really really hard to convince statisticians and people who are counting the beans to understand family. The family dynamic has changed. Everyone in the family is they're looking for. Families are looking for things that everyone in the family enjoys, that they can all enjoy together. Now, granted, it does start with the kids. The kids have to enjoy it first. But you know, if the if it's going to be just torture for mom, dad, and big brother or sister or you know, or parents, parental units, caregivers, whatever, then they're not going to go nearly as often. They're not going to be They're gonna be significantly less likely to get like a an annual pass, you know, because they're like, oh, do we have to go? You know, I mean, I know little Timmy loves it, but do we have to go?

19:16 And so I'm hoping, I'm hoping that they are either going to elevate the quality or reduce the pricing, because if they're looking long term, I think that's going to be the only way to really make it happen. And I don't know this for a fact, but I would assume that this is a beta test for the possibility of doing other regional parks and to see if they can do these kids resorts popping up in different locations. And if that is indeed the case, they got some learning to do. Now in defensive universal they have they have made these you know, horror experiences, and now the kids park and they're experimenting, they're testing, they're trying, and hopefully they will figure this stuff out sooner rather than later.

20:08 And I will also tell you it is much easier to reduce your pricing than to increase it. So if you start out high and you discover, oh crap, we're not getting the numbers we need, or we could be far more financially successful if we got more numbers at a less price, then it's much easier to make that shift than to go, oh my god, we can't we can't handle the number of people we're getting at this price point, so we've got to raise prices that and that raises a whole other level of stink. So and you know, we can sit here and say people aren't happy. People aren't happy. Here's my question, how do we know that the vast majority of kids either like it or don't like it, because it's really only been media previews, so you know, we're only looking at this through grownup size right now.

20:53 And no, I mean I think I was. I was clarifying a lot of the reporters brought children, so I was looking a specific at what those. Understood, but their kids, but they're kids, who are you know, it's it's it's not in my opinion, it's not a broad enough uh base to draw data from. Well, I think that would mean it would only get worse. I think if your point is. I think that's very possible. I think it's very possible. Because like media kids for lack of a better term, usually go to a lot of experiences, right, so they've probably been to other experiences and so if they're happy with it, you know, then that that's good, but it also means it could kind of well, it's also there potentially media kids also get to see the experience in the best possible way.

21:41 That's right. You know, they they're the like the lines are shorter, the they get you know, they get. The having to wait in the heat for like a ride. You know that's just like painted flats. Yeah, you know, that's a good point. It could get worse. Yeah, it could get worse as. The park actually opens. F the park actually opened, I'm curious to see. You know, this is one of the things that I used a gazillion years ago. This is one of the things I used to do when I was booking bands for Bush Gardens because a lot of the bands that we booked for Bush Gardens, Yes there is a connection here. A lot of the bands that we booked for Bush Gardens were bands that were at one time stadium fillers and are now still performing. So I wanted to see what they look like now. So what I would do is I would use like everyone else does, I would use social media, and I'd see what they looked like on YouTube now and whether they still were doing a good show or whether they were just living off the name. And so once this park opens, I'm really curious to see what the videos look like.

22:41 From the people who were not comped in, who were not given free food, who were not told exactly here's the best shots that you're going to get, who were not set up to get all the content that they needed to make the park look good. I'm curious to see what it looks like like when those videos start coming out. So that's a good point because even at its best, it looks bad basically, you know, And. I mean what I've said, so here's here's the thing. What I've seen I wouldn't say is bad. Sure as heck, wouldn't say good, but it's eh, like for eighty bucks, that's bad.

23:25 That's that's the problem is. I think that's why worth the money. That's why when I did my analysis, I wanted to look at it based off the context. What is the context of the local family. What are their other options? I think when you have a lot of options, I mean there's some of these options I found in my research I didn't even know about. And I'm like, wow, like there's a lot to do for these families in this area actually, And I just don't know how this is differentiated other than it is in the heat and totally exposed and it is less less good than Lego land and sea life. And like so I'm I'm well. And here's what it's I mean, here's what it's got going for it, at least in the short term. It's the new kid on the block. It's the new kid. Yeah, and it's.

24:07 Bringing in ips that are not in the area. You know, if you are a Shrek fan, if you are a a Jurassic Park fan, if you are, you know, it's it's embracing those ips that you can't get anywhere else in the in the immediate drive area. But at the same time, you know, looking at some of these six legs over Texas is incredibly popular, as is Hurricane Harbor. Let's him just scrolling down here. Great Wolf Lodge continues to up their game up there. Anti uh Fort Worth Zoo excellent. I mean it's it's rated as one of the top zoos, one of the top smaller zoo's everywhere, Dallas Zoo, strong sea life, grape vine yea, oh gosh, yeah.

24:54 I mean, so all of these things are not and that I didn't even get to legal in so, you know, Pepa Pig World of Play. I will say that when Pepa Pig opened, there were a lot of the same comments though, and that was it wasn't enough. It was a lot of two dimensional or a lot of a lot of concrete with a few things. But that also plays into the whole mindset behind Pepa Pig because they don't want it to be too overly stimulating. So yeah, we'll we'll have to see, We'll have to see how this plays out. I will say that I I I know they are I hope that Universal Kids Resort is keeping an eye on this and it's gonna it's going to track this without bias.

25:46 I don't know. I mean, I agree with you. I think the wrap up if there is one just for for me for my competitive analysis thing, I'm sure people smarter than me and or with more data did a similar competitive analysis. And I'm assuming it's exactly what you said at the start of the show, which is that they probably had plans to make it differentiated in some way, like to make it like a better quality in some way, and that would have justified the price point and made it fit in this like it's clear from my research that Universal was actually targeting the premium market in Dallas, like they're now the premium family offering like based on their pricing, but they don't look like it.

26:33 So to your point, from the very beginning, something must have changed between when they first set up this whole thing, like we're going to be fifty percent more expensive than everything in that or twice is we're gonna be twice expensive as every other option with no shade, but people are going to come to us because we're going to be the Disney of Texas or whatever. I think that maybe was what then that must have been the original concept and then just somewhere along the way this is what we ended up with. And I don't know. Yeah, so based on based on NDAs that I have signed, I can't go into detail, but I think that's a really strong possibility.

27:18 Yeah, yeah, Okay, we have a few minutes. Let's see, let's keep with Universal. Yeah. I was just gonna say, all the stuff that we've talked about with about Epic is like, let's make it a night time park. Let's make it a night time park. Guess what. Yeah, this is one of those weird things where I've known about this for a while because Gantum is used in the like we've had product that has been installed for a light show but not been you know, used in the light show at all, and so we kind of were like, oh, something has to happen at some point with the light show. They finally announced the Universal Celestial good Night that is happening there in Celestial Park from July seventh, onward, and it said that the production will envelop all the Cstill Park, including nearly six hundred synchronized light fixtures, more than three hundred and fifty large in life fountains, and seven million led lights embedded throughout the land. Guests, we'll watch as every inch of the vibrant world from Luna to Apollo comes alive through meticulous choreography set to a high energy musical score before culminating a breath taking Fireburck's finale overhead. So we haven't seen anything, obviously, it is not going to come out for a few weeks.

28:25 But I would just I'm just saying, there's no NBA's here. There's no like, I have no outsider information other than I know where our stuff is installed, and I know kind of where the lights are and everything. And I do think this is going to be really cool because they have they do actually have lights installed all around the park area, and I just think it's going to be. The park's already so beautiful at night, and then you add this sequence in music, I'm not sure. I'm not sure there's a way for this to be bad. Basically, Like, I agree with you. And it's interesting because I've seen some of the beta testing and some of the elements and segments, and they're pretty I mean, for those of you, let me put it this way, for those of you who feel as though the the Epcot end of Night Show around the Lagoon incorporates the entire park, you ain't seen nothing yet.

29:16 Yep, this is this is going to be I agree with you, Philip. I don't see how this can be bad. Even I would. I would go so far as to say, even if all of a sudden, twenty five percent of it just crapped out, I don't think anybody would notice because that's so layered. From what I've seen, it's so layered, it is so in depth, and I think it's I think what it's really going to do is elevate the value of staying at the hotel, because the best place to view it is going to be in the hotel, because that way you can see it, you know, en Moss, you can see it from a thirty thousand foot perspective or from a all encompassing perspective. At the same time, it's going to be really cool to walk through too, because just to be part of it is going to be amazing. Now. My only concern for American audiences is they're going to say, well, I didn't get to see everything because of where I was standing, because you know that's going to happen. But my response is, then walk around, come back again, come see it again, enjoy the elements, because you won't be from what I've seen, based on what I've seen so far, you will not be disappointed.

30:31 So AnyWho, All right, well, hopefully you weren't disappointed with this show, because we're all done. This is the that's my best segue ever. This is the end of our show. Thank you again so very very much for watching and listening. Hopefully we've kicked off your week and gotten your brains going. I'm sorry it wasn't about six Flags. We'll try to do that again in the future. But on behalf of Philip Bernandez with Gannam Lighting and Control and myself Scott Swinson with Scott Swinson Creative Development. This is Green Tag Theme Park and thirty and we will see all of you next week.