Nov. 24, 2025

IAAPA Expo 2025: Indoors, Interactive, and Value-Driven

IAAPA Expo 2025 set a new record with 38,520 verified attendees, more than 28,000 qualified buyers, and an expanded floor featuring over 1,100 exhibitors.

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IAAPA

IAAPA Expo 2025 set a new record with 38,520 verified attendees, more than 28,000 qualified buyers, and an expanded floor featuring over 1,100 exhibitors. Philip and Scott break down the trends that truly mattered this year: the push toward indoor attractions (from SeaWorld Orlando’s new Vekoma indoor inverted coaster to Merlin’s $90 million Galacticoaster installations), the explosion of 'interactive' dark rides like Sally’s Phantom Theater and its new Mini™ dark ride heading to Qatar, and the rise of 'competitive socializing' through Triotech’s new Montreal trio. They also discuss the operational side: Roller’s new industry benchmark report showing mobile dominating bookings and F&B, membership driving repeat visitation, and digital wallets nearly doubling average spend. Across the board, the Expo revealed a sector leaning into indoor reliability, personalized experiences, and value-minded design.

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Okay, from our studios back in Los Angeles and Tampa.

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This is Green Tag Theme Park and thirty. I'm Philip

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and I'm joined as always by my delightful co host

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Scott Swinton of Scott Swinson Great Development. On green Tag,

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we look at the top news each week and explain

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why it matters to industry professionals.

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And this week we're.

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Going to talk about AYAPA and everything that went on

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during that really long and tiring but.

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Axhiliary grueling week.

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Yes, that long and grueling week, which I'm glad only

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happens really once a year. Yes, there are other expos

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around the world, but this is the granddaddy.

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This is the big old one.

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And yeah it's Anybody who attended will say pretty much

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the same thing.

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It was great to see everybody that they knew in

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the industry. It was great to make new friends.

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It was great to take some really cool classes. It

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was great to see what was on the showroom floor.

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And their feet hurt and they yeah, and they need rest.

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My feet hurts so much.

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Like at the end, Scott and I got to end

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the week in our little tradition of going to celebrate

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together and hanging out and that was so fun. But

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also at the end, I was like, oh, I should

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have brought the cane. I can't walk, can't walk.

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Yeah, we were, we were hobbling. We were both hobbling.

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I didn't bring my cane either, so we were both

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hobbling by the end. But there were some rather interesting

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and unique announcements made, which is always a highlight or

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at least an element of the IAPPA Expo.

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And Philip, you covered a couple of them, didn't you.

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Yeah.

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Something I have noticed in the several years, these most

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recent years is that the announcements at Ayapa have been

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picking up, and I think Ayapa is encouraging more announcements.

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The press conferences they have now span three days and

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they are just they run the gambit, you know, from

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everything from products to big announcements, big you know, coasters

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and big press.

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Now they have a press.

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Announcement room for some of the larger ones because there's

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you know, there could be up to two hundred plus

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people at a announcement, you know, so it can be

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difficult to hear everything. So I ALPO sent out a

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little recap afterwards, a press release where they kind of

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recap the numbers. This year, they had thirty eight five

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and twenty verified attendees, they had twenty eight, five hundred

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and ninety eight qualified buyers. They had spanning one hundred

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and two countries. They also had five hundred and fifty

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thousand square feet of exhibit space and more than one thousand,

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one hundred exhibitors. And of course next year they announced

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they're going to expand the show floor by fifty percent.

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They're adding the West Hall two. Yeah, they're in the

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West Concourse, so it's going to the exhibit space itself

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is already massive and I already cannot walk the entire thing.

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And then they and.

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Rumor has it what they're going to do is the

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predominantly they're going to move the rides, the ride manufacturers

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over to the West Hall.

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And then open up more on the north South.

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Hall, which are it's just called the South Hall, but anyway,

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the north side of the South Hall. And then the

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discussion is that they will then move Haunting Grounds, which

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has been upstairs in the North Concourse lobby. They're going

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to move that onto the showroom floor, which I think

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will be a really good move.

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Yeah, that's going to be that is confirmed.

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That's moving to the west side, so because they release

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the list of so for those who have them, Ben Duayapa.

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What they do is they split things up into pavilions

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according to the genre. So I'm always in the show

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pavilion because where we manufacture lighting and lighting kind of

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fits into the show production pavilions that we're in there.

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We're staying, thankfully in the South Concourse. But as Scott said,

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the ride manufacturers and the haunt spaces are going to

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move to the West Concourse, so I think there it's

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probably good to break it up that way because a

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lot of people go to see the ride manufacturers like

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that's their destination.

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So it's good because you'll get traffic over there.

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Yeah, but I think I think haunters are once again

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going to be pissed because they're going to feel like,

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here we are the redheaded step child put out in

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the and it's right in the West forty. The case

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may be, so yeah, it's and the thing is about

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haunting grouds. The unfortunate thing is because it didn't get

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the foot traffic the first year, and because it really

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didn't get the foot traffic this year either. It there

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are vendors who are I mean, there are multiple haunt

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vendors who were on the trade show floor and said, no,

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I'm not going to the Haunting Grounds. That's that is

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bad for my business. And I could totally understand that.

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So we'll see, we'll see how that ends up working out.

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Yep, that's exactly what I heard.

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So I interviewed all of the vendors at the Haunting Grounds,

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and then I stopped by the vendors that were not

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on there, and then I interviewed a few people for

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a Trash's magazine to work on stories for the big announcements,

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which I can talk a little bit about. But the

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announcements that Ayapa highlighted in their press release is the

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SeaWorld and Baileing the the Coma Coaster, Dollywood debuting their

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new attraction in partnership with mac Rides see six Flags

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over at Texas, Feeling the tormenta coaster manufactured by the

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manufacturer there, Rocky Mountain Construction announcing a new single rail

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coaster coming to Family Kingdom of Usement Park, and Zimperla

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partner with Morgan's Waterland on the Wings. So those are

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the ones that they discussed. Who I talked to is

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SeaWorld and Sally Dark Rides and the Seat World Orlando one.

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I'm sure everyone has read about it already. It's the

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SeaQuest that is the inverted indoor coaster that's coming to

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SeaWorld Orlando. And what I think the only thing that

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stood out to me about this is a trend I've

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been noticing more of. Is just that it's indoors, I think,

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which is going to be great, and it's of course

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as the inverted coaster, but it's also has this like

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immersive media that everyone keeps slinging about everywhere how to

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make their rides immersive. And I in the interview, you know,

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the spokesperson who was the vice president of corporate Communications

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or something or rather for United Parks.

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I'm sorry, sorry, who was it. I don't I think

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it is.

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Okay, might be, yeah, a younger fellow, you know, because handsome,

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younger gentleman who was very enthusiastic, and he just kept

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talking about how you're going to be able to like

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go into the sea right because you're it's surround You're

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like it's indoor and you're just surrounded by media, so

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you're like flying, you know, indoors through the sea. In

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this and they'll be able to also adapt that media

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so it can change. So this is all the trends

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I think we've been seen like indoors so it can

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be more protected from the weather. And then something that

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is I guess they're using the word immersive, but I'm

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not sure that's quite right. But at least it's something

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where it's more than just a coaster. I think that's

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also what we're seeing, like plus media, coaster plus media

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or you know. And in the past announcements, we've seen

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coaster plus something else, but it always got to be

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like plus something.

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Now it can't just be like, here's a coast.

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Right well, and that makes sense because I mean people

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have done people have done coasters. I I you know,

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the first thing I, in my own snarky way, the

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first thing I think of is, gosh, then what are

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they gonna blame on the next earnings call if everything's

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going indoors exactly?

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Exactly?

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Oh God?

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In fairness. In fairness, you can flip that exact same

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snarkiness and say, well, they're finally you know, recognizing this

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is costing us money. We got to move things indoors.

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So well, while we're on this, let's just let's jump

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to the Merlin announcement. So because it's exactly the same,

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well it's not the same thing, it's very similar. So

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Merlin announced that they are bringing Galacta coaster to both

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of the Lego Land resorts in Florida and California. So

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to those two and from the press release, it says

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the new Space themed experiences represent Merlin's biggest ever single

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in park investment in the history of these two locations,

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with ninety million dollars being spent on these two new attractions.

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It demonstrates the business's continued commitment to bringing Lego brand

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to life. It will use interactive touch screens and RFID wristbands.

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Guess will personalize their craft through four or build phases,

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nosetail wings, and special features, unlocking more than six hundred

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and twenty five possible combinations. Once complete, their digital creation

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is recognized. Merging physical thrills with immersive storytelling sounds very similar.

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So these are also going to be indoor coasters that

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have media in them, and it sounds similar to a

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little bit similar to Test Track. I'm sorry they probably

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will not be happy that I mean that analogy, but basically, it.

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Looking at the videos in the press kit, you know,

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you the kids can customize their vehicle like a Lego

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They're building a Lego space ship, and then when in

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the launch phase they get to see you know, you

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get to see your ship in the launch phase, and

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then after you launch, it feels like it's a regular coaster,

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dark coaster at that point.

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Yeah, it's this is something that has been going around

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the idea of giving children the opportunity to create their

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own vehicle or their own space vehicle. First of all,

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it's one hundred percent on brand for Lego, yeh. Because

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you know they always say not about the bricks, were

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about the creativity. We're about the imagination, and in many

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of their attractions and many of their rides in the

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in the theme parks, they definitely are.

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It's very clear.

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A similar a similar attraction that opened one or two

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years ago at Space Center Houston is a similar kind

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of thing where children get the opportunity to on paper

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color uh the outline of a specific spacecraft and a

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spacecraft design to do a specific thing. It is then

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scanned in, they launch their their spacecraft and then they

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can watch it on a giant screen and track like

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like they do at at the mission control and and

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see it fly and it's their colors and their design

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flying across a gymungous screen.

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So this idea of giving the.

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Kids the opportunity to create their ride vehicle or create

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their part of their environment, I think is really cool

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and it's something that is, as you say, is very

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much a trend YEP.

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Next, of course, as I mentioned, I spoke with Sally

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and at the booth they were showing off characters for

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the new Phantom Theater opening Nightmare, which is an interactive

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dark ride that's opening at King's Island in twenty twenty six,

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And I spoke with Luring a little bit about the ride,

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and the biggest takeaways is, of course, it's you know,

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it's playing in the history of that park. You know,

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it was a ride that you know, come back and forth,

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and so they're kind of it's important for the people

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that go there, the locals about to have this in.

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But it also has a lot of amatronics, and it

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also has a lot of that interactive gameplay because you're

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using flashlights to scare off ghosts in the environment. So

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it is interactive and it's spooky and it's fun and

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the characters as always look incredible.

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It's so funny.

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I was going to ask how many times did they

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use the word to interactive in your interviewer, But I mean,

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that's that is that is the buzzword interactive and immersive.

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Or the tune to an immersive. Yeah, that's where we are.

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And nobody you know.

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Once again, anytime, Here's here's the thing. I'm gonna if

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there's anybody out there who is like a podcast or

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like a U or is and.

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Involved in the media or just interested in the in the.

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Attractions industry, anytime somebody uses that term, ask them to

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define it for them, and not in a snarky way.

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But it's just that immersive and interactive are used like

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they're used like punctuation marks, quite often, and they mean

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so many different things to so many different people. So

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in order to better understand, don't just accept, well, it's

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it's totally immersive or incredibly interactive. Have them explain how

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they define interactive in this particular case, and then they

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will give you examples of what you do, and then

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you go ask it. Then you ask again, but how

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do you define interactive? What makes those actions interactive? Yep,

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because it means something different to everybody.

240
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You know I've done.

241
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I've done several sessions and seminars on immersive and interactive attractions,

242
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and at the very beginning, I make this exact point

243
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and I define it for me.

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I say, here's my definition.

245
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So use this definition as we go through the rest

246
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of this session to help you understand where my head's at.

247
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Yeah. So I agree with that totally.

248
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I get down rabbit holes with sometimes with people about

249
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that as well, but especially with the immersive thing, because

250
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I think, as we've talked about, like, there's a difference

251
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between just having a thematic environment like and actual immersive content, right,

252
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and I think that's where somebodies fall apart. Like I

253
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think for me, immersive elements mean that it had checks

254
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all the boxes. Actually, you know that you have a

255
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role to play, and the role that you play can

256
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impact and change the outcome. And also everything follows the

257
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story X Y Z. And in the case of these

258
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two you know, dark coasters.

259
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They are not immersive.

260
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I would say they are themed environments that follow a story.

261
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But you're not playing a role that's going to change anything.

262
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You know, You're just you're.

263
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In there and in the same with this dark right,

264
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it's she didn't use interactive in this but immersive. She

265
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only used interactive, which in that case it sounds like

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the interactivity is that the guests have a flashlight in

267
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which they are pointing it to do things in the environment.

268
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So yeah, well, I mean it's like it's like a

269
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product of yours from a couple of years ago, the

270
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Gandam torch.

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I mean, you know it was you were you were

272
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very much ahead of the game back in that back

273
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in those days.

274
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But but again, you have to make certain that guests

275
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not only understand how to use that torch, how to

276
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use that flashlight, but also you have to be able

277
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to prove to them that, well, doesn't this just happen

278
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every time we go by?

279
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You know, there has to be you have to.

280
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It's really difficult when you go through an attraction once

281
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to actually prove that it is interactive, you know, because

282
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it's like, oh, well, it always happens this way.

283
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Yeah, that's right.

284
00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:40.879
So I will say that with the with the Sally announcement,

285
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I was walking through the trade show floor. I'm going

286
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from one session to another, going from south side to

287
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north side, and I are north side to south side,

288
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and I was I walked by the uh the Sally

289
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booth at the announcement and it basically created gridlock in

290
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the middle of the trade show floor.

291
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That's right.

292
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Yeah, there's always hundreds of people that show up for

293
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the Sally one. So they also so they made it

294
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a second announcement that I'm not sure was planned or

295
00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:13.919
not or how but anyway, there was a second one

296
00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:19.039
that came out and they announced remember Mini Yeah, a

297
00:14:19.080 --> 00:14:20.799
while ago, I don't even know how long ago, but

298
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we talked about their new concept, which was the Mini

299
00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:26.440
dark Ride, and I think Scott talked about how it

300
00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:29.919
could be used at zoos or museums and it could

301
00:14:29.960 --> 00:14:32.399
be it's low throughput, right, this is a mini dark ride,

302
00:14:32.440 --> 00:14:35.080
fits in three thousands square feet and it's two hundred

303
00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:38.080
per hour ish, and so Scott talked about how you

304
00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:39.200
could use it, but it would have to be an

305
00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:41.639
up charge, but that would help mitigate actually to make

306
00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:43.879
sure that you could actually the line wouldn't get too long,

307
00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:46.720
and it would help the offset the payment for it.

308
00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:51.320
So they already have their first installation planned in Qatar,

309
00:14:51.639 --> 00:14:53.919
and it's going to be called Guardians of the Hidden

310
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Chamber and it's going to be in see, Qatar's largest

311
00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:01.480
indoor theme park at the heart of Doha Oasis. It

312
00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:06.480
will be Guardians of the Hidden Chamber and they signed

313
00:15:06.519 --> 00:15:09.600
the contract at the booth on Wednesday, So that's kind

314
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of what the press conference was centered around, and.

315
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It said, here we go again.

316
00:15:15.840 --> 00:15:18.039
Guardians of the Hidden Chamber introduces all new Dark Right

317
00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:22.200
experience that blends high tech interactivity with cinematic storytelling, placing

318
00:15:22.200 --> 00:15:25.000
guests inside a fully developed adventure game brought to life.

319
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The groundbreaking attraction marks the debut of Sally's Mini Dark

320
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Red format and its first installation in the world designed

321
00:15:31.360 --> 00:15:33.399
to fit a compact blah blah blah.

322
00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:33.960
Okay, let's see.

323
00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:36.840
Guests joined the Quest archaeological group on a VIPA tour

324
00:15:37.000 --> 00:15:40.080
of a newly undercovered underground chamber, only to accidentally awaken

325
00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:42.679
an army of ancient guardians protected. What follows is a

326
00:15:42.720 --> 00:15:47.360
thrilling chase through a suburban labyrinth where writers use custom

327
00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:51.360
handheld devices known as fright lights to defend themselves against

328
00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:58.440
the enchanted warriors. Yes, yep, well, I mean it sounds

329
00:15:58.480 --> 00:16:00.919
great for guitar. I think this this will be great

330
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:06.679
for that where it's going and again indoors, and I

331
00:16:06.720 --> 00:16:09.639
think it's a subterranean labyrinth, not a suburban labyrinth.

332
00:16:10.159 --> 00:16:12.039
But oh sorry, did I slay suburban labry.

333
00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:15.440
Yes, it's just outside the city. It's not it's not

334
00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:17.679
a real high end metropolitan labyrinth.

335
00:16:17.720 --> 00:16:22.360
That's your right, subterranean labyrinth. Okay, I'm sorry, Sorry for that.

336
00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:23.320
Anyway.

337
00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:27.320
Anyway, I'm excited to see because we talked about how

338
00:16:27.360 --> 00:16:30.120
that could be. The potential is pretty great with that,

339
00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:31.519
and I'm not surprised.

340
00:16:31.279 --> 00:16:33.679
That's going to guitar. I think that Cutter.

341
00:16:33.720 --> 00:16:37.360
I think that all fits and the indoor model everything

342
00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:40.159
fits with that. But I'm curious to see it's North

343
00:16:40.159 --> 00:16:42.919
American installation and what that's going to be like.

344
00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:46.639
Yeah, I think that for for if it's in a

345
00:16:46.720 --> 00:16:49.960
market that is not used to indoor dark rids, I

346
00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:52.759
think it'll be. I think it'll be very successful, which

347
00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:55.879
I think Cutter is going to be that way. I

348
00:16:56.279 --> 00:17:00.639
think that if it is truly looking, if it were

349
00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:02.840
to be installed in any of the major parks in

350
00:17:02.840 --> 00:17:05.680
the US, I think it would. I think guests would

351
00:17:05.680 --> 00:17:07.759
consider it. They would come out of their wanting more.

352
00:17:09.119 --> 00:17:10.599
Not that it's going to be a bad experience. I'm

353
00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:14.200
not saying that, but they expect a longer ride time,

354
00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:18.119
they expect more experience. And I say that without having

355
00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:20.079
written it, so maybe I'm being unfair to it, but

356
00:17:20.559 --> 00:17:24.079
I uh, that's why I say that. The prime market

357
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for this to me seems like especially museums, but zoos

358
00:17:29.519 --> 00:17:31.799
and museums that are always looking for new ways to

359
00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:35.920
engage their audience, that in ways that they can't necessarily

360
00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:38.640
engage their audience in the real world. You know, you

361
00:17:39.000 --> 00:17:41.119
it's very hard to fly with an eagle in a

362
00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:43.279
zoo a real legal so you might as well be

363
00:17:43.279 --> 00:17:44.440
able to do it in a dark ride.

364
00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:45.759
Yep.

365
00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:48.720
And museums and museums and.

366
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:53.799
Aquariums have have dabbled in this idea a little bit

367
00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:56.920
with the mini three D or many four D theaters,

368
00:17:57.279 --> 00:17:59.720
you know, the ones that only hold like ten people,

369
00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:04.279
So they've been they've been dabbling with that. This seems

370
00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:06.480
to be the next the next phase of that, so

371
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:08.680
we'll keep an eye on that and see where it goes.

372
00:18:09.039 --> 00:18:11.559
I agree, I think that would be Yeah, I think

373
00:18:11.599 --> 00:18:13.640
the guest expectation would be much more aligned in those

374
00:18:13.720 --> 00:18:14.440
environments as well.

375
00:18:14.519 --> 00:18:15.559
Right, agree.

376
00:18:16.279 --> 00:18:20.720
So also on the Dark Ride Vein Triotech hasn't unveiled

377
00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:26.599
three new attractions opening in Montreal in summer, and what

378
00:18:26.640 --> 00:18:31.359
they're saying is that these attractions redefine competitive socializing, blending

379
00:18:31.400 --> 00:18:35.279
physical activity, interactive gaming and immersive storytelling and break through

380
00:18:35.319 --> 00:18:36.200
digital technology.

381
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:38.079
It's all the it's all the words.

382
00:18:37.720 --> 00:18:41.960
Scott, including the new one. What is it competitive socializing?

383
00:18:42.119 --> 00:18:45.680
Yeah, so I didn't notice that, and I was like, okay.

384
00:18:45.440 --> 00:18:50.559
Right now, it's yeah, top golf, you know, competitive socializing.

385
00:18:50.960 --> 00:18:52.680
Bowling is competitive.

386
00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:56.119
Socializing, right, That's kind of what these sound like.

387
00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:59.480
So I'm pulling up the release here about these. But

388
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:07.440
the first one is Electric Funfair, which reinvents classical classic

389
00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:11.279
carnival style games with dynamic digital theming. That's basically what

390
00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:14.480
it does. Designed for social play, it supports up to

391
00:19:14.480 --> 00:19:17.240
one hundred and twenty players simultaneously in the same game room,

392
00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:20.880
with configurations ranging from four to twelve game stations. Guests

393
00:19:20.880 --> 00:19:24.240
can enjoy a one hour session filled with fast paced

394
00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:26.279
mini games, food, drinks, and friendly competition.

395
00:19:27.279 --> 00:19:30.839
The next one is what is the next one?

396
00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:33.480
It sounds like it's just more like an escape room,

397
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:35.880
like a mini escape room. The energized concept is a

398
00:19:35.960 --> 00:19:38.440
multi room interactive adventure where groups of two to sixty

399
00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:41.240
will be entertained through a dozen or more uniquely themed

400
00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:44.279
game rooms, each featuring high energy, physical, and cognitive challenges.

401
00:19:45.119 --> 00:19:49.200
A key innovation is the integrated narrative, delivered through large

402
00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:52.279
format screens in every room, guiding players through story that

403
00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:55.839
evolves as they progress. And finally, they have Crazy Carts,

404
00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:58.640
which is an augmented card team that fits any building.

405
00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:00.240
I'm not going to read any more about that because

406
00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:02.039
that's basically what it is, and I think we've all

407
00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:07.640
seen that before. So yeah, again, though, if we look

408
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:10.400
at these I feel like they still fit what we're

409
00:20:10.440 --> 00:20:13.200
talking about in some of the trends, like indoor stuff. Also,

410
00:20:13.319 --> 00:20:15.200
this is kind of to me, this seems more of

411
00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:18.440
the value trend we've talked about a lot previously, and

412
00:20:18.519 --> 00:20:21.720
also at least the trend that all these places have,

413
00:20:21.799 --> 00:20:24.519
which is the ability to change the media and to

414
00:20:24.559 --> 00:20:28.359
have that kind of that cycling of the media. How

415
00:20:28.400 --> 00:20:32.200
you know how effective that is my to be determined,

416
00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:32.519
I'm not.

417
00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:33.880
I'm not at all sure.

418
00:20:33.920 --> 00:20:35.759
I feel like guess a lot of guests have media

419
00:20:35.799 --> 00:20:36.720
fatigue at this point.

420
00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:38.480
But yeah, I'm gonna say I was gonna say the

421
00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:38.839
same thing.

422
00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:40.799
I think that short term these are going to be

423
00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:44.920
very popular because you know, it sounds cool and it's

424
00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:47.960
Remember when I have said in the past that I

425
00:20:47.960 --> 00:20:52.880
thought VR was dead, this is kind of proving that because.

426
00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:55.240
Well now it's AR. Now they're like, VAR is dead,

427
00:20:55.240 --> 00:20:57.400
but AR is where we're really because I.

428
00:20:57.319 --> 00:21:00.279
See even in mixed reality is the other way too,

429
00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:03.200
because mixed reality. The thing about the thing about VR.

430
00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:05.880
Which I said, you know I have said multiple times,

431
00:21:05.920 --> 00:21:07.440
way too many times, have pissed off a lot of

432
00:21:07.480 --> 00:21:11.200
VR people. But the reason I have said VR is

433
00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:14.759
is was either is either dead or or dying, is

434
00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:18.359
because VR takes your friends out of the equation. You

435
00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:20.799
can't see the person next to you you and if

436
00:21:20.799 --> 00:21:22.759
you do, they're an avatar, so they could be anybody

437
00:21:22.759 --> 00:21:28.640
they're not your friend. With with AR you can still see.

438
00:21:28.599 --> 00:21:30.720
You know, the real environment around you.

439
00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:33.400
And with with mixed reality that's the same thing, and

440
00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:35.839
then you can put the VR stuff over it. So

441
00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:39.880
there's a bunch of there's a bunch of different different

442
00:21:39.960 --> 00:21:42.599
versions here. But like even the even the mini dark rides,

443
00:21:42.640 --> 00:21:45.920
you know the mini dark rides. Yes they are media heavy.

444
00:21:46.039 --> 00:21:48.839
But they don't require they don't take you out of

445
00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:52.960
the real world, you know. I mean, even like the.

446
00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:57.279
Vast majority of the flight simulator attractions at Epic Universe,

447
00:21:57.279 --> 00:22:04.440
for example, those are very heavily media based, but they

448
00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:07.119
do overlays of reality in front of it and try

449
00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:09.920
to make the media look like the real pieces. I mean,

450
00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:13.000
it's it's interesting because they're really trying to blur that line.

451
00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:14.599
It used to be that would like they would use

452
00:22:16.200 --> 00:22:20.160
they would use either film or the film, video or digital.

453
00:22:20.519 --> 00:22:25.000
It's hard to even call it video now because it's like,

454
00:22:25.079 --> 00:22:28.039
so it's such a digital hybrid that takes you into like,

455
00:22:28.440 --> 00:22:29.759
you know, one hundred and twenty k.

456
00:22:31.240 --> 00:22:33.359
I know that's not really a thing, but it's.

457
00:22:33.599 --> 00:22:36.400
One of those situations where now they're instead of trying

458
00:22:36.440 --> 00:22:40.559
to make the video look like perfect video, they're not

459
00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:43.079
trying to make the video look like the reality that's

460
00:22:43.119 --> 00:22:43.640
next to it.

461
00:22:43.720 --> 00:22:46.880
So it's really hard to tell the difference. It's blurring

462
00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:47.519
that line.

463
00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:53.079
Yeah, but it's still something you can actually see as

464
00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:56.000
opposed to that you have to go into a non

465
00:22:56.079 --> 00:22:57.680
male environment of wearing goggles.

466
00:22:57.880 --> 00:22:59.960
That's right, that's right. Yeah, So I agree with you.

467
00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:01.720
I think I We'll just have to see. I mean,

468
00:23:01.720 --> 00:23:04.519
we also saw that there wasn't in this announcement, but

469
00:23:04.599 --> 00:23:09.160
the verse people in the Haunting Grounds, they're the same thing.

470
00:23:09.279 --> 00:23:12.200
You know, you put on ar glasses and they were like,

471
00:23:12.200 --> 00:23:13.799
well you can still hang out with your friends and

472
00:23:13.839 --> 00:23:16.200
still play the things with them, and you're just it's

473
00:23:16.319 --> 00:23:17.319
just you know, augmented.

474
00:23:17.359 --> 00:23:21.720
And I'm like, I mean, you know, I well, we'll see,

475
00:23:21.759 --> 00:23:22.839
we'll see.

476
00:23:23.759 --> 00:23:25.599
Last announcement here that I got, at least I got

477
00:23:25.640 --> 00:23:29.920
sent that I thought was interesting is the Roller which

478
00:23:30.079 --> 00:23:34.599
is a all in one venue management platform. They released

479
00:23:34.640 --> 00:23:36.799
two things, so first as they sent out their twenty

480
00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:40.799
twenty six Attractions Industry Benchmark Report, but they also announced

481
00:23:41.279 --> 00:23:45.400
a AI assistant basically called Roller Iq. And this is

482
00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:48.240
I thought this was interesting because it says that basically,

483
00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:51.759
if you're a customer with them, then what this does

484
00:23:51.839 --> 00:23:56.079
that provides instant in platform comparisons against industry benchmarks, so

485
00:23:56.119 --> 00:23:58.559
then you can see in real time how your venue

486
00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:01.599
performance aligns with competitors and peers. And I thought that

487
00:24:01.799 --> 00:24:04.200
was interesting. I mean, I don't know how again, some

488
00:24:04.200 --> 00:24:06.839
one of those things where I'd be interested to talk

489
00:24:06.839 --> 00:24:09.200
to somebody who's actually using it and see what the

490
00:24:09.319 --> 00:24:13.200
reality is. But I like the idea of like you

491
00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:18.039
have basically performance metrics that you can watch in real time,

492
00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:20.720
so you would kind of know, like like KPI's right.

493
00:24:20.759 --> 00:24:22.799
I mean, we're all spoth to have KPIs on our business,

494
00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:24.559
but a lot of times.

495
00:24:26.319 --> 00:24:28.279
Well you can still I mean, you still have KPIs.

496
00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:30.160
What this does, though, is for as I understand it

497
00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:32.799
is it actually gives you in real it gives you

498
00:24:33.480 --> 00:24:37.920
real time comparisons to where the trends are in the

499
00:24:37.960 --> 00:24:40.759
rest of the industry. The only thing I'm concerned about

500
00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:43.240
this or can not concerned the only question I have

501
00:24:43.400 --> 00:24:45.440
because I'm I'm with you, Philip, I think this sounds

502
00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:47.920
like a great theory. I would love to really talk

503
00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:51.359
about talk to somebody who's using it, because if you

504
00:24:51.480 --> 00:24:55.039
sign up for this, aren't you then in essence opening

505
00:24:55.240 --> 00:24:59.920
your information up to the rest of the people use

506
00:24:59.920 --> 00:25:03.759
it this platform in order to make those comparisons. So therefore,

507
00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:06.559
is it are you losing any privacy in doing it?

508
00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:08.480
And that I don't know the answer to.

509
00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:14.079
Yeah, it's just like I mean, it's just like using

510
00:25:14.200 --> 00:25:15.880
It's just like the more the more you put into AI,

511
00:25:15.920 --> 00:25:18.279
the more you realize, gosh, you know what, this is

512
00:25:18.319 --> 00:25:20.400
now out there and other people can use it. That's

513
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:23.559
from an artists standpoint, but you know it's it's it's

514
00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:26.319
one of those situations where like, this is really cool.

515
00:25:26.720 --> 00:25:29.200
I see all the advantages of it, But are there

516
00:25:29.240 --> 00:25:31.599
disadvantages in the fact that you are now weakening your

517
00:25:31.599 --> 00:25:35.160
position or weakening your uniqueness in the industry because now

518
00:25:35.200 --> 00:25:37.839
all of your information is now out there as well.

519
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:41.359
I'm assuming it's being put together and giving you an

520
00:25:41.359 --> 00:25:46.640
amalgam as opposed to a specific But still that doesn't

521
00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:48.640
mean that information is not out there. That doesn't mean

522
00:25:48.680 --> 00:25:51.000
that that someone outside your company has access to it.

523
00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:54.880
I didn't think of that.

524
00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:58.400
I think more what I was thinking of on this,

525
00:25:58.519 --> 00:26:01.119
or at least how I would envision wanting to use

526
00:26:01.160 --> 00:26:04.960
this is even down on a granuar level, like you're

527
00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:08.599
looking at even a specific machine or a POS system

528
00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:11.599
and it is you're able to say, Okay, the it's

529
00:26:11.640 --> 00:26:14.599
supposed to be converting at this rate, it's not converting.

530
00:26:15.720 --> 00:26:19.440
So then it's that how can like basically, how can

531
00:26:19.480 --> 00:26:22.519
we take this and turn it into action? So if

532
00:26:22.519 --> 00:26:24.519
there if there is a way, or like if if

533
00:26:24.559 --> 00:26:27.319
that through line could be solved. I think that would

534
00:26:27.359 --> 00:26:29.960
be incredible because it would be an incredible unlocked to

535
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:34.160
be like you're, you know, you're these machines or these

536
00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:37.839
FMB or these ticket styles, these things are performing under benchmark,

537
00:26:38.799 --> 00:26:41.000
and now let's try and solve why to get them

538
00:26:41.119 --> 00:26:42.079
up to benchmark.

539
00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:42.799
Uh.

540
00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:44.799
It could be a really good way of really narrowing

541
00:26:44.839 --> 00:26:47.759
in operationally on like these are some weak points, like

542
00:26:47.759 --> 00:26:49.640
a good place to start, like these are some weak points,

543
00:26:49.759 --> 00:26:52.039
and and then but then the question is it going

544
00:26:52.039 --> 00:26:53.640
to tell you why? Probably not, it's probably just going

545
00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:56.000
to say that these are under It's probably just going

546
00:26:56.079 --> 00:26:57.960
to say these are off that. So you don't actually

547
00:26:57.960 --> 00:26:59.839
know why. So is it that you know your menus

548
00:26:59.880 --> 00:27:02.480
on attractive? Is the price point to what is the thing?

549
00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:05.480
But I think that would be an incredible unlock if

550
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:08.480
there were a way to help, you know, to help

551
00:27:08.359 --> 00:27:13.839
a park anybody hone in on these items. But just so,

552
00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:16.559
as I mentioned, these are separate announcements. One was the

553
00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:20.799
report and then one was the AI thing. The report

554
00:27:20.960 --> 00:27:25.319
was interesting because in it there was some interesting takeaways.

555
00:27:25.759 --> 00:27:29.079
The biggest surprise to me overall was just the mobile

556
00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:33.920
domination and you can see it through multiple in multiple

557
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:35.960
sections of their so I kind of combine them to one.

558
00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:38.880
But basically, eighty four percent of online bookings are now

559
00:27:38.880 --> 00:27:42.200
made on mobile devices. Guests are five almost five and

560
00:27:42.200 --> 00:27:44.119
a half times more likely to book on a mobile

561
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:47.279
than a desktop. Mobile food and beverage orders are three

562
00:27:47.319 --> 00:27:51.000
and a half times larger than pos orders and represent

563
00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:53.839
now ten percent of F ANDB revenue, which is up

564
00:27:53.880 --> 00:27:57.000
seven and a half percent from last year. Online checkouts

565
00:27:57.119 --> 00:28:00.640
also generate higher spend online bookings forty five percent of

566
00:28:00.680 --> 00:28:04.279
revenue despite representing just thirty thirty three percent of total bookings.

567
00:28:05.359 --> 00:28:09.279
That stuff is crazy to me, or not crazy, but

568
00:28:09.319 --> 00:28:12.680
it's just the how much it's diverging. Also the digital

569
00:28:12.680 --> 00:28:15.559
payments yielding higher transaction values like that all stuff, how

570
00:28:15.599 --> 00:28:18.680
much that converging is interesting. The party thing is also

571
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:21.400
interesting because it says in here, buried in here was

572
00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:24.880
that venues offering parties saw forty percent repeat rate versus

573
00:28:25.160 --> 00:28:27.240
twenty five percent venues without. And it just got me

574
00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:32.119
thinking about those little little tweaks like making sure that

575
00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:34.079
you're designing We talked about this before. I talked about

576
00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:35.960
this for content creation, where I'm like, you should be

577
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:40.400
designing for the smallest screen. And I also think you

578
00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:42.640
can look at in operations. You should be designed your

579
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:45.960
operations to make sure that they can be accessed via

580
00:28:46.039 --> 00:28:49.920
the smallest screen. And then on the data here about

581
00:28:49.960 --> 00:28:52.319
the parties, that's just something where it's like a best

582
00:28:52.319 --> 00:28:54.799
practice thing like if you have an FEC or you

583
00:28:54.880 --> 00:28:57.240
have any venue or you do you have an option

584
00:28:57.680 --> 00:28:59.680
for a party for that?

585
00:29:01.440 --> 00:29:04.640
Yeah, yep, Well that's all the news that that not

586
00:29:04.759 --> 00:29:05.519
it's not all the news.

587
00:29:05.559 --> 00:29:07.319
It's not all the news for Ayappa, but it's certainly

588
00:29:07.799 --> 00:29:12.039
the news that that was on top line. What we're

589
00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:16.599
going to talk about in in Unhinged this week is

590
00:29:16.720 --> 00:29:17.839
our personal experiences.

591
00:29:18.519 --> 00:29:18.960
I taught.

592
00:29:19.039 --> 00:29:21.599
I taught six different sessions. Philip and I taught one together,

593
00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:25.079
which is I think the first time, isn't it the

594
00:29:25.119 --> 00:29:27.759
first time we've done one together which had its ups

595
00:29:27.799 --> 00:29:30.319
and downs, And we will, you know, because we can

596
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:32.079
get behind the paywall, we will tell you exactly what

597
00:29:32.119 --> 00:29:35.160
the ups were and what the downs were. And we

598
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:38.440
hope that that all of you will join us. If

599
00:29:38.440 --> 00:29:41.960
you are Unhinged subscribers, great, you can come and join us.

600
00:29:42.079 --> 00:29:43.799
I have heard from somebody to hear from some some

601
00:29:43.839 --> 00:29:47.799
folks at at expo that they are actually getting unhinged

602
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:50.319
before they get the regular show. So if you've already

603
00:29:50.359 --> 00:29:53.480
heard that, great, you know what we're talking about. But

604
00:29:53.960 --> 00:29:56.319
if you are watching, the one thing that I would

605
00:29:56.359 --> 00:29:58.880
like you pleased to do is if you're especially if

606
00:29:58.920 --> 00:30:02.319
you're watching on YouTube, please subscribe. That that helps us,

607
00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:04.920
It makes us more sustainable. It's not that it's going

608
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:06.359
to make or break us. We're going to keep doing

609
00:30:06.359 --> 00:30:08.039
this as long as we possibly can, but it does

610
00:30:08.160 --> 00:30:11.839
make it significantly easier for us if you subscribe, because

611
00:30:11.839 --> 00:30:13.920
it gets as closer and closer to monetization so we

612
00:30:13.960 --> 00:30:16.119
can cover the cost of doing this show. So if

613
00:30:16.119 --> 00:30:19.440
you can subscribe, please do continue to watch and tell

614
00:30:19.559 --> 00:30:23.279
all of your friends and a couple of your pleasant

615
00:30:23.759 --> 00:30:28.119
enemies about the show, and keep coming back and hopefully

616
00:30:28.359 --> 00:30:30.359
we will see you here again next week on Green

617
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:33.440
Tag Theme Parking thirty
Scott Swenson, ICAE Profile Photo
Scott Swenson, ICAE

For over 30 years, Scott Swenson has been bringing stories to life as a writer, director, producer, and performer. His work in theme parks, consumer events, live theatre, and television has given him a broad spectrum of experiences. In 2014, after 21 years with SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment, Scott formed Scott Swenson Creative Development. Since then he has been providing impactful experiences for clients around the world. Whether he is installing shows on cruise ships or creating seasonal festivals for theme parks, writing educational presentations for zoos and museums or training the next generation of attractions professionals, Scott is always finding new ways to tell stories that engage, educate and entertain.

Philip Hernandez, ICAE Profile Photo
Philip Hernandez, ICAE

CEO of Gantom, Publisher of Haunted Attraction Network

Philip is a journalist reporting on the Haunted House Industry, Horror events, Theme Parks, and Halloween. He is also the CEO of Gantom Lighting and Founder / Publisher of the Haunted Attraction Network, the haunted attraction industry's most prominent news media source. He is based in Los Angeles.