QUICK HITS: Oogie Boogie, Universal Kids, Carousel of Progress, & More

0:00 Okay from our studios this week in Los Angeles and Tampa. This is Green Tagged Theme Park and thirty. I'm Philip from Ganta Mining Controls, and I'm joined by my delightful co host, Scott Swinston of Scott Swinston creat Development. On Green tag we look at the top news each week and we explain why it matters for you as industry professionals. And you know, this week we're recording early because I'm by the time you're listening to this, I'm in Asia in Hong Kong for Ayapa Asia. So we're gonna do a little bit different this week in that there's a lot of stories we don't get to because we kind of spend too much time talking about storytelling or some other things, and so well, look I'm getting in the way already. I'm sorry me you We push stories down and so this week it's gonna be kind of a quick hits clip lightning round where we just the challenges get through as many as possible with it's.

0:52 A way to catch up so we can drop them off our notes. That's what it really is. It's like Philip, because the notes and they just keep dropping to the bottom of the page and and so we're gonna try to get through as many as we can. So it's it's a gazillion different topics. In the next thirty minutes, we'll start with Ogibigi Bash. They are switching a parade for a cavalcade, so people will know Ogibigi Bash is the ticketed Halloween event that's happens in California. This is a California adventure and this year it has a record number of shows. They sell it every year, et cetera, et cetera. This year they are switching the parade, a frightfully fun parade for a cavalcade, which is called the Madame Leotis Swinging Wake, a Haunted Mansion street Party, and it says it brings frightful haunts. That is a Cali forn adventure with a street party full of show stopping moments and groulishly good times inspired by blood and Haunted Mansion attraction and hosted by Madame Leo herself. And then apparently the Headlessforsman is still coming, but he's going to be just randomly wandering around the park at different times.

1:45 I don't know, Okay, anyway, quick quick, So. The backstory to this, which they didn't talk about but I know from my neighbor, is basically that you know, they're building the Cocoa ride, and so because the back because there's not enough room basically to run a parade because you have all the construction happening with Cocoa, and so I think this is their way to do that. But my question, Scott is how does this change the calculus for value? Because a parade is a lot of entertainment, it's also big crowd suck. You know, you're a lot of people are a lot of people are waiting there for this thing that happens twice at night. I think it's a really big part of the value proposition for this ticketed event, which is like one hundred and eighty dollars or you know, for five hours something like that.

2:27 So now we're changing it to a cavalcade. What do you think, Well. Let me first ask when they do cavalcades. When they do cavalcades, are they NonStop or are they specific at specific showtimes? It depends, so some of them are non listed showtimes, some and we're not sure how this is going to be yet. Yeah, So to me, this is actually yes, there's a practical reason that they don't have a place to. Stage the parade. I got it. Cavalcades are also cheaper than parades. I also think it targets I also think it targets a different a slightly different demographic. It's shading into the demographic of I don't want to sit and watch the stuff. I want to do the stuff. I want to be, not on the sidewalk, I want to be in the street. So I think this is a great you know, I think they're using a practical reasoning because they can't they can't stage the floats.

3:20 I think they're using a practical reason to do a great test market to see if cavalcades can replace parades, because parades, you know, if you think about it, theme parks do parades, especially Disney do parades because that's what they've always done. But you know, as you and I saw for when we were judging some of the end of Night spectacles. You don't need it. You don't need a parade to be and it's more fun to have it happen all around you. And if you are doing a limited ticket, an expensive limited ticket, instead of having to wait for the parade, which takes you away from other things. If this is a non stop cavalcade, if this is a non stop dance party, then you can go in experience it, you know. And I'm assuming it takes place on on Main Street.

4:05 Yes, this is at California Adventure, but it's gonna it's California Adventure, Okay, it's gonna take. Place on the parade route. Yeah, on the parade route, so you get to go in and experience it and do it in your time so that you can spend the rest of your limited time doing other stuff. So I think they're going to find that it's going to be popular once people get over the fact that there's no parade. I think the idea of a parade is more impactful than an actual parade, and I think that changing people's mindset to go from a parade to a cavalcade is going to be harder than actually going from a parade to a cavalcade. I agree with all that. Actually, I was thinking, I go to these Halloween events. Obviously, Halloween's my secialty, and the parades are to me and maybe I have a different lens, but they're just stressful because it's like you're thinking what time is it, how many people are there?

4:57 Where am I going to watch it from? You know, all that's it's a lot stress, that's you know, baked into it. And then if you especially with these events that are so expensive for a small amount of time, if you spend an a half hour waiting or an hour waiting, then you kind of. You you've reduced you've reduced the value of your ticket. That's right, that's right. And so the only thing I would push back on here, which is something that so you know, my neighbor performed at Disney California Adventure for the Asian Pacific Islander Month. And what they did was they hired different groups and they did six shows and thirty minute shows, lots of interactivity in the shows. Kids came up and dance, They taught them dances. It was a really good show. But what I was like, why didn't they add something else?

5:39 So it's it's like, right now, I think it's the perception is it's it's simply subtractive, or if even if you're being generous, it's it's even so you're losing a parade, but you're getting a cavalcade. Why didn't instead they say we're going to do this cavalcade, and then we're going to do this a few other character interactions, you know, or simultaneous cavalcades, or you kind of just put other things to do just you know, random character interactions in other places to kind of make it seem like they're overall adding instead of. Well, and it all comes down. It basically all comes down to how do they execute it. I mean, yep, you can take You could take parade floats, park them on the street and do a cavalcade around them.

6:21 Yeah that's true, leaveing them the whole night. Yeah, yeah, it's true. All right, next okay, next on. I think that's the same theory. Actually, So it's interesting. So we got new details for the Magic of Disney Animation, which is coming to Disney Hollywood Studios. We've been talking about this a lot, so I don't want to really, I'm not going to read all this because you all, I'm sure already have seen the graphic. But if you look at the little graphic and you look at the different areas that they have, I'm thinking it's almost the same philosophy has what Scott exactly just said for this, which is that. It's like it's the opposite of going and having to wait in a long line for a big E ticket ride. Right.

7:06 This is like looking at this is a you know, there's it's a big building with a bunch of smaller rooms and different interactive activities, right, And so it seems like it's something more where you could casually stroll in and do one or two things and have a moment that's just you or you drawing a character or whatever. You have more ability to do things and participate, and it's a less stressed about a line and it's all indoors and air condition And I think it's a similar sort of thinking of instead of everybody waiting for a parade, we're breaking it up into smaller interactions you can have individually with people. Because it's a swinging wake. This is the same idea where instead of waiting for a big E ticket that takes the same footprint, you can go in and you can draw animation over here, where you can take a photo with a hologram.

7:50 Over here, you can do this over here or whatever. What do you think, Scott Now. I think you're absolutely right. I think basically it's the concept of the micro visit that's the idea, the idea of I may not, and this is gonna be hard for Americans of a certain age. There's a certain demographic that has a checklist mentality that says, well, if I'm. Gonna buy the ticket, I gotta see absolutely everything that's right. So that's going to take a little changing. I don't think that's as true with younger families. I think that, you know, younger families recognize, especially with very precocious or very strong willed children, they will say, I want to do this, and I want to do this again, and I want to stay here. I don't care about that. Let's do this. And I think this allows them to do that.

8:33 It allows them to If you do one thing, you have a micro visit, which is very satisfying. If you do two things, you have a slightly longer visit that is very satisfying. If you do it. Absolutely all of it, you've spent a little bit more time waiting around, hanging out, but you still feel satisfied. So it allows people to personalize their experience and right size it based on their family's needs. So I think this is the right choice. Yep, yep, Okay, next up, I'm not sure how much there is of this news, but basically. Yes, short when we get through this pretty quick. Basically we've been talking that we've been tracking the new theme park that Universal is building in the UK, and they announced it's going to be called Universal United Kingdom Resort. I think that's it. Was there anything else in this, I'm a.

9:15 Gonna say, great? Next, No, it's it's I find it interesting that they are because again I heard the GM of of Epic talk a little bit about it at a at a convention, well now, a couple of weeks ago, and he basically nobody seems to be talking about where they're positioning themselves in the area. They keep talking about how the area wants them there and they feel that it's going to be a great thing for Universal, which I think it is. But you know it's so Universal UK has announced its name, which is Universal United Kingdom Resort.

9:56 Next. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Well, we're gonn to keep on the Universal train because the Universal Kids Theme Park announced that they are opening July first, which is in just two weeks from when you want to listen to this. That's, of course, their new kid centric theme park near Dallas, Texas. With rides in to Shrek, SpongeBob, Troll's Minions, Puss in Boots, and Jurassic World, plus a Gabby stall house area and the two I'm sure you all have already heard all about this. The only things I thought we were interesting for this show is one in Universal's blog post. It kind of reads like a marketing pitch where they are making a would I would say a pretty strong connection between what we talked about at this point several weeks ago that Scott brought up, which is that a lot of the summer appeals are appealing to the child and the child's caregiver, and that seems to be the exact playbook that they are using here in their little blog post that is actually like a press release in my opinion. And then secondly, also via Danny, my colleague at Attractions Magazine, she did some sleuthing on the website and she pointed out that actually they're not going to be opening you around because there are quite a few dates that they are closed, which include November three, four, ten, eleven, seventeen, eighteen, and November twenty sixth, plus December twenty fifth and January fifth through eighth eleventy fifteenth and nineteen through thirty first, so basically whole chunks of when families are actually Availa multi coal, which I don't know, could be maybe they'll change that, or maybe it's a staffing issue, or they're already projecting

11:28 low attendance. I don't know. It's also is pointed out now that we have pictures of some of the areas that it doesn't, you know, look as good as some of the new Universal properties, which I think is probably by design because this is a kids park that's meant to be a local thing for one metro area. I don't think this is really meant actually to be a destination resort. But maybe I got Yeah, it's not. It's not even it's not even part of the resort's team. It's actually part of the destinations and experiences team. So, and there's a lot of things that I find very interesting as far as how they're positioning it. First of all, let's look at the let's look at the at the closure dates. Basically, this means they go to weekends in November and weekends in January. Yep, that's kind of that's kind of what they're doing. So and and maybe it's you know, maybe it's because November is it's it's hard to know exactly when school's out, so they'll just do November.

12:22 They'll just do weekends in November, and they'll just do weekends in January because again I think January is the new shoulder season anyway. It used to be October, but that's not true anymore. Yeah. So there it looks like they're going to weekend only operation and extended weekends, yes, or expanded weekends, but. They are. They are still open at these you know, in January and November, but just not you know, they're open the the like January, they're open the ninth and tenth, and they're open the sixteenth through the eighteenth. You know, so I think they're they're just going to limited operation. Uh, they are still considered a year round park. I guess, I guess. But I also think it's very interesting that when you look at any of the promotional stuff, does it look like another existing park of a different brand to you?

13:09 Does it resemble Oh, I don't know, perhaps Lego Land. Yeah, that's what I Yeah, A lot of people have been saying that too. Yeah, that is it looks like it looks like Lego Land, which means that it's going after that same demographic yep. And it means that they're you know, that's why there are Lego Lands in a lot of different locations because they are more of a I don't necessarily whether I call them local, but they're certainly regional. And as things move forward, you know, based on so many of the trends that we're seeing, having something that is local, if travel trends continue to be what they are, if gas prices continue to be what they are, if international travel continues to be what it is, low end international travel, then this might be a nice piece for their portfolio.

13:54 It might be a nice little test. And I think testing it in Texas makes tons of sense. It's it's a good it's a good, good market to test this kind of thing. And even down to the logo for the park itself, if you look at the logo for the park itself, universal is te any tiny, but you know what's really big kids. So they make it very clear that this is a different experience. And and again the challenge, I don't think I think what they're doing is right. I think where they may fall short and where they may have some stumbling blocks, at least, in my opinion, is convincing guests who are coming there that it is not Universal Orlando, that it is not Universal Hollywood, it is not any of the Universal studios outside of the United States. It is its own kids resort. So it's it's more of the like Universal with a high end playground. And I think that that brand confusion is going to be tough to overcome, and I think it's going to get a lot of negative off the off the at the beginning, because they just it's just not enough, you know. And I think we've and I think we've seen that to a certain extent with uh with Horror Unleashed, Yeah, where they just haven't been able to quite tell people it's not really Horror.

15:08 Nights, that's right, right, It's it's. Its own thing. And and I think that anytime you become so incredibly well known for something, it is very courageous to set out and try to continue to expand and diversify your portfolio. But I think it's also in the long run, a very wise move. So we'll see how it pans out for. Them, right right, Yeah, Yeah, that's good. I think. The brand confusion definitely is going to hurt them, which is something that Lego Land is not fighting against. And I would also point out too that Lego lands further along on this journey where the Lego Land Shanghai, like I said this before, and Legoland Shanghai is an incredible experience. It is the theming, you know, the it's very well it's Legolan and Shanghai is like made for kids, but something that adults you could see them wanting to go to just because it's it's so well produced. And I think that's also that'll be also interesting to see with this is what actually looks like you know, the execution all right, what is the execution on this the yep.

16:08 But I will say the pricing, the pricing is if nothing else, the pricing will explain to them because it's only what forty forty two I wrote it down here somewhere, sorry, fifty four fifty four dollars for a ticket, Yes, for a day ticket, so it's it's half price of one of the actual universal parks, and a two day is seventy three ninety nine and a silver pass is one hundred and twenty nine to ninety nine, one hundred and sixty four ninety nine with parking, so you know, slightly more than a day ticket for Universal Orlando, especially if you get. A multi park ticket. That's a good point. So hopefully, hopefully that pricing structure will open people's eyes so that it will help curb their expectations.

16:51 Good point. Good point. Okay, we're I guess we're going to stick with Universal for this next story as well, because there's been a lot of talk about how Universal Orlando has removed the express pass for Hagrids. We were asked to talk about this a few weeks ago, and so sorry it took us weits to get here. But you know, I don't know Scott is closer this might have a better take on it. But from what I understand that, you know, there were some unlimited express passes and people were kind of abusing them at the Hagrids and so instead of limiting the express they just. Removed it entirely from Hagrids. And you know, I'll read here a little bit from Dean Parkingsider that says the addition of Universal Express que has been awful for fans waiting in the stand by a Q for Hagrids, which is already one of the longest waits in the park due to the Riot's popularity and its capacity stand by time, so the ride routinely stretched into multiple hours, which could not have been good for the guest. Satisnational Scores at Lands Adventure. We'll pair that with a story from Toko Disney Resort. Tokyo Disney Resort is going to end their free priority pass service on August thirty first. What that means that if you want a priority past, you're going to have to purchase it just so basically to explain for people, Japan still operated to kind of in the way that we used to.

18:07 I don't even know how long ago here, I only have vague memories of this, but remember when you used to go up to those little machines and you could put in your your ticket and they would spit out like and you didn't have to pay. For it, right, They'd they'd give you a virtual queue. Yeah, they'll there'll be some listeners who are like, what are you talking? But like that this used to be a thing kids, where you would go to physical machines and the part so Tokyo still had a system similar to that where you would just scan your ticket and you could basically reserve for a virtual queue for rides and you wouldn't have to pay anything for this service. And so they're discontinuing that and moving entirely over into Premiere. They were using both. They were like, if you want to pay to just go whenever you want, here's a price, or every you know, two and plus hours or whatever. You can get a virtual queue reservation, or you could just stand in line.

18:55 You could do any of those. And now they were limiting that. And also Hagrids is doing the opposite by just taking away way all express well. I think I think that the story, you know, that what you read for Hagrids is actually part of the reason that it's that Hagrid's was the one selected to not the Hagrid's Q is is. I don't think they ever anticipated Haggard's being as popular as it is Hagrid's Q. And it's also you have to keep in mind that it was also kind of built into it was it was retrofit a little bit. It was kind of squeezed into what used to be something else. And so from and and again I don't work there. This is not from any official source, but anecdotally from people that I've talked to. UH, they said that the queuing at Hagrids was so poor that the addition of the lightning lane basically just made the overall capacity less. So what it did was it it impacted because of the way things were laid out, it impacted the entire boarding experience negative, which basically made the number of guests who can experience the attraction per hour less. Now I can't I can neither confirm nor deny this statement.

20:09 This had not come from Universal. I do not have any insider information, but this is this is what I have been told by some people who actually were involved in the installation of the ride, and there was there's been concerns from the get go, but I think that the the intent of being afraid not to do a lightning lane was superseded. It superseded the actual Oh my gosh, if we do a lightning lane, it's going to make it worse for everybody. So that's what I have been told. Now, whether that is accurate or not, I, like I said, I cannot. I cannot say for certain, but it does make sense because if you've ever been in that queue and you see where the Lightning lane goes and you see where they and you see how it awkwardly boards. To just keep people pumping through that queue is going to be significantly easier and more efficient than the the stop and go that was necessary for the Lightning lane. Well, like I said, don't know whether that's true or not, but it does make sense to me and I and I have seen, you know, and and kind of ties into what Tokyo Disney is doing as well. If you've got instead of three different ways of tracking how people come in, if you've only got two, it's going to increase efficiency. Yes, there will be an additional revenue, you know, bump. We get that because of people who were doing just the free virtual queue or reserving a time, but those would you know, those would would well, since you weren't buying

21:41 the I you don't whether you can use sell out, but those would become not available later in the day as well. I did that honestly the last time I was or one of the times that I was in California at Disney. So yeah, it's been a while, but so anyway, that's the that's the that's my take on the operational side of Lightning lanes and priority pass cues and all that, because it's you kind of have to look at sometimes you have to look at the holistic picture. You have to look at the big picture and see is this going to impact negatively more people? Right?

22:22 So I think that we don't know. Again, we don't have any insight on the Tokyo thing, but I would say, I would hazard that both decisions are probably exactly what you're saying, which is improving the holistic experience, because that's just like you know, generally from the Japanese culture, that's probably probably more about what they're concerned with. And I did read a little bit on the from the Japan Times about some of the feedback from people saying that a lot of people are abusing the system somehow and so, but it's the same principle, right, which is that cues were not classically designed to deal with these two types of like they work best when it's just a single stream of people. It's more efficient, and so there are still going to be premiere, but the of people, I think the pay for Premiere is significantly lower than the virtual Q stuff, so it kind of should should improve efficiencies.

23:06 I mean, a perfect, perfect example if you've ever been to Florida driven across I four, those places that have three lanes merging into one merging onto I four versus one merge onto I four, there's always a backup by the big years. So and that's why, because instead of just one lane smoothly coming on, you've got multiple lanes merging into each other and then merging onto I four. So it kind of makes sense if you think about it. Yeah, okay, maybe does this make sense? Does this next story make sense if you think about it? I don't know. I think so. I was just trying to make sense. So Carousel of Progress.

23:47 We this is a few this is many weeks old, so I'm sure all of us are aware of it, but we you know this Carousel Progress. They're closing the ride in a few weeks on July sixth to install new scenes. And what they're going to do is instead of portraying life in the ninth, teen hundreds, twenties and forties, it will shift sixty years, so it's going to be nineteen sixty nine, eighty five, and two thousand. The original idea to time shift the experience so it is no farther away from us in the past, as the original was from the audience at the New York's World Fair in nineteen sixty four, So the rear Mansion experience will begin in the nineteen sixties with Walt Disney World, with Walt Disney himself actually introducing guests to the optimism of the World's Fair and the space race. Then the theater will rotate through an all new nineteen eighty six sequence, a y two K inspired in an era, and a retro futuristic off planet finale designed to remain timeless for future generations. One of the biggest changes, of course, is going to be Walt Disney himself as an audio animatronic, and Disney said the new opening scene is inspired by Walt's nineteen sixty four television special Dissland Goes to the World's Fair, where he introduced the audience to the original concept behind the CAROUSELO Progress.

24:54 Oscott. What do you think I mean? I think, on its surface, yeah, it's it's keeping the original tent of the ride, which is, yeah, you know, keeping that story. And I actually think the introduction of the wall animatronic hopefully it's a better one than what we got at Disneyland. But you know, with that awkward, that awkward one. Hopefully it's better than that one. But I look like him. Maybe, I don't know. We'll see, we'll see, we'll see. No, I sorry, go ahead, No, I want to hear what you take about this from a storytelling perspective. I can't wait. I can't wait. I think this is going to be so cool, because again I loved Carousel of Progress.

25:37 I thought it was I thought it was. I love it too, very It's one of my favorite rides. Actually very nostalgic, really fun, really charming. But you know, when you look at it now, the people who were seeing it in the nineteen sixties were nostalgic about the forties and even the twenties, depending on which generation of the family there, even the nineteen hundreds. But there's nobody who's going to be nostalgic about the nineteen hundreds because they're dead. So it's I think it's important to make it so that there's something that the audience can connect with. Yep, this kind of this is something that happened at TGI Friday's restaurants several years ago, quite a few years ago now, because originally they used to decorate them with things from the fifties, sixties, and seventies because they opened in the seventies, then they shifted. They kept shifting decades so that the earliest decade got newer and newer and newer, because they wanted to make certain that it had a sense of nostalgia.

26:40 But the difference between nostalgia and history is point of view or frame of reference. So if you have no frame of reference for the nineteen hundreds, it's not nostalgic. It's just a history class. So keep it nostalgic, keep it, keep the emotion in the storytelling, you know, because again for me, nineteen sixty nine will be very nostalgic. It will be very cool. I was a small child. Nineteen eighty five is the year, and yes I'm giving away all of my ages here, but nineteen eighty five was the year I graduated college, so that will be very nostalgic for me. And two thousand seems like yesterday, even though I know it was over twenty five years ago.

27:23 So because I remember the Y two K, you know, revaganza, and how terrified we all were that computers weren't going to work on January second, So it's it reinvigorates great storytelling and moves it forward. Now, I do understand that with any Disney, with any Disney attraction, the moment you change it, the traditionalists go, yes, but we're going to lose all the blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. And I think that's valid. I think that's valid. I understand that. But I think that if you're going to try to continue to engage audiences in storytelling that is relevant to them, if you do something that was originally designed to be nostalgic, you have to make sure that it doesn't become historic. Yep, I agree with that.

28:11 I think it's it's an interesting balance between this corocel progress, which is in a way become its own. It's taken on its own, separate identity, as like a classic ride at Magic Kingdom. So it's kind of it's almost has created its own ip where it's become this thing. And I think that's more what people are responding to. It's not like they're like, oh no, I won't get to see this thing that reminds me of my childhood, Like no, It's more like they're responding to, like not the scenes themselves. But the ride itself has become nostalgic to their childhood, Like they think it's more like that, but like to your point, you know, the goal of the ride is to evoke that nostalgia and then to inspire for a future.

28:53 That's the original intent of the ride. So if you're going to say true to the intent of the ride, you have to shift it. If you're gonna stay true to like this is an icon of the park, then you would leave it. But and I think they're saying it's more important to stay to keep Walt's vision for the ride than it is to keep it. And I think that the reason it became an icon for the park is because when people first saw it, they understood the nostalgia of it. So by not allowing it to age forward, I think what you're doing is you're selfishly keeping that sense of iconography for the future away from a whole you know, two or three generations. So you have to make certain that warmth, that warm fuzzy that you got when you experienced Carousel Progress the first time is something that is not so far distanced.

29:38 And I do believe that people's understanding of time and culture has compressed. I think that you know it used to be, you know, even when you just look at the generations, when you look at boomers and exers, and it's now so compressed that we're talking about generations that only last three to five years as opposed to thirty to fifty years. So I think it's I think it's important to keep it moving forward. I think it's important to keep the intent of the ride the way Walt intended it to be. And I think it's also important for us to say that we are out of time and we look forward to seeing all you. We got through quite a bit though this is we really crammed it in here, so I am proud of us. Philip, we did a nice job. So good job on behalf of Philip Bernandez with Gantum Lighting and Controls and myself Scott Swinson. Swinson with Scott Swinson created development. This is Green Tag theme Park in thirty and hopefully next week I'll be able to talk again.

30:32 Bye.