July 7, 2025

Holiday Nostalgia, Living Art & After-Dark Upsell—3 Plays for Year-Round Repeat Visits

Whether it’s Christmas nostalgia, locally led art, or adult evening events, operators have fresh levers to boost replayability and spend beyond peak season.

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Trends Christmas Upsells

Hallmark is back with its Kansas City “Christmas Experience,” aiming to top last year’s 100,000-guest debut by doubling down on comfort-food tradition—workshops, red-carpet movie premieres, and even themed Marriott suites. Philip and Scott unpack how leaning into safe, repeatable rituals can turn a pop-up into a pilgrimage. Next, Meow Wolf launches Phenomenomaly, a summer-long loop of live dance, puppetry, and guest interaction inside its Las Vegas and Denver exhibitions—proof that adding performers keeps ticket-buyers coming back for a second trip, rather than treating the art as a one-and-done selfie stop. Finally, Chicago’s big museums roll out a multisensory slate—projection-mapped Himalayan “ghosts,” a Monet-Hokusai mash-up, Mars-rover missions, and 21-plus stargazing nights—showing how after-hours programming can drive per-cap growth without requiring permanent capital expenditures. Takeaway: Whether it’s Christmas nostalgia, locally led art, or adult evening events, operators have fresh levers to boost replayability and spend beyond peak season.

Listen to weekly BONUS episodes on our Patreon.

WEBVTT

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From our studios in Los Angeles and Tampa. Yeah, that's

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where we are. This is green Tag to Theme Park

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and thirty. I'm Philip. I'm joined as always on my

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co host Scott Twinston of Scott Twinson's creative Development. On

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Green Tag, we normally break down the latest news from

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each week and explain why it matters to business professionals.

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But we are recording this early because Scott is in

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China this time. Last time I was in China, but

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now Scott's in China working on a project that we

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can't talk about. But we're going to do a little

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Christmas in July for you all and talk about the

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Hallmark Christmas Experience returning and Scott's an expert on Christmas

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you literally have.

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And other engaging gifts that the industry will be providing

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us in the future. That was a stretch, but yeah,

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it was starting. Yeah, so let's start. Let's start with

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let's start with this Hallmark thing. So what's Hallmark doing, Philip, He.

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Says, So, this is the second year of this experience.

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It's called the Hallmark Christmas Experience. It's I'm going to

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rehear from article from Impark magazine in Park also did

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a great feature about the development of the first event,

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which went out in their last issue, So reading here

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about this year's event from in Park, they say, Hallmark

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Christmas Experience, the destination for holiday celebration, returns this season

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to the home of Hallmark's headquarters in Kansas City. Following

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last year's and I'll go run, this year's Hallmark Christmas

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Experience will deliver even more joy, wonder and cherished memories

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every weekend from Thanksgiving to Christmas. Hallmark announced the Hallmark

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Star lineup already, which is below, and the event scheduled

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to help plan. To help fans start planning tickets, Fans

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at this experience can step into the world of Hallmark

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Christmas with activities like created learn workshops with Hallmark artists,

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photo opportunities with Hallmark stars, signature dining experiences, and more.

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As for what the Hallmark supermovie fans have all been

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waiting for countdown to Christmas, enthusiasts can get a sneak

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peek behind the curtain and catch their beloved Hallmark actors

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in stars on stage productions including holiday spirit inspired games

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and competitions, fu'ltipe, panel discussions, and movie screenings, guests can

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visit the event website to learn more and choose their adventure,

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so then they have the list here of who is

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showing up. But this is interesting again. I think we

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talked about it a few weeks ago when we talked

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about the whole idea of Netflix going vertical, and I

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think this is a very similar with Netflix Houses and

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their fec thing, and this is similar ish in the vein.

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But I just I like it because I am not

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a Hallmark Christmas person, but my mom was a Hallmark

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Christis person, and I do know that like it's a brand.

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The Hallmark Christmas thing is a brand that they have

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been able to really create a great fan base around

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and then basically extending that into an experience, and especially

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because they already have access to all of the people

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and the actual actors and the stages and all that,

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and to be able to bring fans into an environment

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where they get to do the activities they see in

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the movie, but then also meet the movie people. I

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think that is a great combo. And you know, I

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think It's the year two is good. I can I

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even liked it they started it in their headquarters because

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it's a lot you can control the environment when you

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do it in those cities. Plus, the whole idea of

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the Hallmark movies is they always have that like element

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of mid kind of like I don't know, want to

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say mid America, but like small town or that, the

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concept of American towns. But Scott is the Christmas expert. Scott,

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what do you know, They're.

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Loaded with Christmas Americana, which I think is great. So no,

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I've always said that, you know, Halloween, Halloween is is

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for the adventurer, and Christmas is for the heart. You've

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got to touch people on an emotional level. And the

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say what you will about Hallmark Christmas movies, the fan

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base that they have is incredibly devoted. There is, I

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mean so much so that on Roku there is a

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channel that is just Hallmark Christmas Movies that you can

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watch year round. So there are there are, there is

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a very strong fan base for this. And like you

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you know, you mentioned the Netflix and the next Netflix

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house and that kind of thing, but this is even

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I think one step closer. What this kind of reminds

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me of is what Disney Hollywood Studios used to do

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years and years ago for soap opera weekends, they'd bring

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in sets from from the soap operas that they that

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were on their networks, and they would bring in the

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stars to do cavalcades and parades and autograph signings and

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photo ops and all that kind of thing. And then

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this is taking that and then adding on top of

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it the the the beauty and the joy of Christmas.

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You know, some of the visuals that were in the

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link that was in the in the magazine article. The

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in Park magazine article was they looked a lot like

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in Chant. I thought was interesting. Now, I don't know

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whether in Chant is still going on anywhere else, but

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in Chant is dead here and Florida, so it's maybe

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they sold their stuff. I don't know, but it was.

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It's one of those situations where you're going into you're

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going into the world of these Christmas movies. You're going

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into this environment, this experience to meet the real people.

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So there's actually something kind of I don't know, meta

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about the whole thing, because you're going into a fantasy

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world to meet the real people. Now, if it's like

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if it's like the soap opera festivals they used to

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do at theme parks, it's quite possible that they won't

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realize that these aren't the characters that they've been watching.

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They you know, they rarely separate the character from the person,

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but you know, they get a chance to meet them.

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They get a chance to live the movie, you know,

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which I think is really wonderful. I agree with you

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one hundred percent that doing it at their headquarters provides

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them with a ton of control. It also reinforces the

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brand and when you've got when you've got a fan

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base like this that just will watch Sorry, in my opinion,

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basically the same movie over and over again with different people,

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set in a slightly different location, and the people have

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slightly different vocations but very similar storylines that are heartwarming

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and that make people feel good. So I can't be

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too judgmental about them, because if they make people feel

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good at Christmas, that's awesome. That means that they're hitting

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the nail on the head. So I think I think

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it's interesting that that. I mean, clearly it did something

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right because they're bringing it back for a second year.

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The next question is will they be able to expand

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it to go to other locations.

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Oh that's interesting, I think in what you're saying there

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makes me realize like I was thinking. I also looked

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at the visuals, and I think what I was thinking

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about when I looked at the visuals was how generic

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the event looked like that, as in, like I've seen

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the Christmas pop up experiences that look very much like that.

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But I think what you're kind of in a way,

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what you're saying, or at least what I was thinking

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about when you're saying, is that like the movies as

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a whole are pretty generic. It is literally like they're

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just almost cookie cutter plots and they're put in, you know,

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with handsome actors in and it's like what you're saying,

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Christmas is tradition, Like you don't need necessarily to have

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a new thing, you know it effectively it can be

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the same giant, you know, ornament thing that you have

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in your town and we see other places and you

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just be here because that's kind of what it's a

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Christmas in America sort of is it's like people putting

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up the same putting up decorations in the same place

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every year, and people just showing up and making you know,

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I always go down to that or that's always where

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the gingerbread house is or whatever and and so in

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that way, you know, it doesn't need to be custom

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fabricated stuff for Hallmark. It could just be regular stuff

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because that's authentic to the brand of.

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The that's what they've used in the movies.

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That's what they need the movies exactly.

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Yeah, you know, but you're absolutely right. And like for example,

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in four with one of my one of my former clients,

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which is the Indianapolis Zoo, in their event, they have

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a two dimensional lighting display of a peacock that they

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have had for years and years and years and years

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and years, and I can't tell you how many families

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would come up have there. We actually had to move

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it to a specific location so that it could have

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a queue to get families to come up and take

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their picture in front of the peacock, because they've been

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doing it ever since Little Tommy was born. And little

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Tommy just got married and so now it's little Tommy

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and his wife and mom and dad, and then the

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next photo will be hit him little Tommy holding his

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son or his daughter. So it's that sense of tradition

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is essential, you know. Growing up in Chicago, for example,

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to me, the Christmas season always meant having lunched the

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Walnut Room at Marsha Fields because it was this lovely

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restaurant that we would never go to the rest of

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the year, but to go in there for Christmas and

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have lunch because they had a three story Christmas tree

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in the middle of it. It was a giant, very tall

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restaurant in the middle of a Marshall Fields department store

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on State Street in Chicago. So that was that was

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the Christmas tradition. And it was exactly the same every

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single time. And if it had changed, we would have

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been furious. You know. That's that's the thing that you

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know when you say that's it's almost generic, but it's

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also safe, you know it is. We don't this this audience,

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This audience does not and I'm not even going to

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put I was going to put like an age and

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a gender and a but this audience, and you know

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who you are, you Hallmark Christmas watchers. You this audience

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doesn't need zombie Christmas dinosaurs. They want comfort food. They

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want the comfort food for the holidays that just simply

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makes them feel good. And based on what they're talking

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about and what they're offering here, at least from what

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I've seen, looks like they understand their audience. They know

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that it doesn't have to be big and flashy and

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all new and all different. No, it's come in. Get

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a chance to live in a Hallmark movie with the

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people you've seen in these Hallmark movies, with the decor

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you've seen in these Hallmark movies, having special dining experiences,

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participating in specific game shows. I'm guessing there's a trivia

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somewhere in there. Yeah, and that's amazing. You know.

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I was going to share some statistics that I didn't

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mention because it was in the original article from the

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first year, but it sounds like they drew over one

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hundred thousand people for their first year event, so last

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year and from all fifty states and twenty countries attended

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for this event. So like you're saying, and then you know,

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they partnered with a lot of big folks, including BMP

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to make this and the events. Yeah, it sounds like

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that they did do a lot of different items like that.

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But basically they tried to be able to last year

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at least to be able to recreate some things you

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could do, so like finding your favorite Christmas card and

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you know, getting this ornament signed and doing some of

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sort of things that happen in the movies basically, but

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then you can do them there. And then they also

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did red carpet events there. So they did an outdoor

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red carpet event at the at the Town Center celebrating

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the premiere of Holiday Touchdown and Chiefs Love Story, and

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so they had fans tends were encouraged to show up

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in their chief Scear favorite Christmas sweater and later shop

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the merchandise tie ins at the Holiday Holiday Market. So

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I think we assume that they're going to continue with

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these ideas of like you know, bringing some of the

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premiere people there and celebrating the new movies to add

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to the collection and bringing those stars out, but also

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making sure you still have activities that people can do.

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And then they also did like themed hotel room tie ins,

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which is also fun because they worked there at the

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Marriott that's on there and so they have like themed

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rooms that you can buy room packages as well.

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Yeah, you know, we often talk about there's there are

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markets out there that are very dedicated, relatively significantly larger

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than we anticipate them being. You know, don't it's clear

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that you know, if you've got if in their first

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year they had visitation from every one of the fifty states. Yeah,

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and from outside the US. You know, Philip, you're more

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of an expert on this area than I am when

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it comes to pop up events. Who would which pop

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up event? Wouldn't give their right arm to be able

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to say we had attendees in our first year, we

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had this number of attendants, and we had attendees from

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all over the world or all over the United States

237
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and the world.

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That's that's huge. Yeah, that's huge. That's yeah, it's crazy.

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So yeah, they said one hundred thousand to Crown Center

240
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in Kansas City over four consecutive weekends and the underscoring

241
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Hallmart's close relationship with its customer fan base and paving

242
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the way for future endeavors. Those tens of thousands of

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people made their way to the Crown Center on some

244
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of the most festive days of the year to stroll

245
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and shop in the Christmas market, gather around the one

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hundred foot led tree, connect with their favorite Hallmark stars

247
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and artists, make new friends, and sang souvenirs. Many travel

248
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significant distances, arriving from all fifty US states and over

249
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twenty countries. Yeah.

250
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I love the fact that they included make new friends.

251
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They're not trying to make this thing super, super slick.

252
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They wanted to feel homespun. They wanted to feel like

253
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they're building a community and that these people are part

254
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of a community, because again, that's what every single one

255
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of these movies are about. Yeah. Yeah, so building community

256
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around the holidays.

257
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It's interesting. I'm when you mentioned expansion. I mean, I'm

258
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not sure. Basically, I don't. I don't No one's talked

259
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about the expansion or how that would work, or any

260
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of those those kind of things, because then you may

261
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lose some of you know, it's a give and take,

262
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and they have to have a headquarters to be able

263
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to bring all the stars to and all these elements

264
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work together for this.

265
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So but but wouldn't it be cool for this to

266
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go on tour? Yeah, so that you do? You know,

267
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you finish up in you finish up in Kansas City.

268
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Yeah yeah, well, and so again I know that Christmas

269
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in July. But you know, Scott, you teach classes all

270
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the time, and I think we're looking at some of

271
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the best practices here. Right. It's like leaning in too, nostalgia.

272
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It's about creating traditions in this case is like it

273
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seems like they're what they're doing is using a tradition

274
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they know that their fans already have, which is watching

275
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the home or movies, and they're finding way to tap

276
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into that tradition. But we always talk about Christmas is tradition.

277
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You know, Christmas about tradition, it's about family, it's and

278
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I also like the idea that they have interactive elements

279
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because I think, while I'm sure you can do Christmas

280
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events without interactive elements, I do think that is back

281
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to the value thing we've been talking about. People need

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to feel like they have value at the event, and

283
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it's not just showing up and waiting a line to

284
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look at the thing and then leaving. Right, It's about

285
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there needs to be a little bit more to it.

286
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So I like that they have the idea. They have

287
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these little stations, there's learning areas here, there's all sorts

288
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of activities people can do. But again they're all coming

289
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from the already traditions I already have with their families.

290
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But again we've seen this before with ice, Right, I

291
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had all the gingerbread kits and cookie deck grading. I

292
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mean there's so many like American traditions, I think you

293
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could pull from them. But are there any other best

294
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practices you want to mention?

295
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And I think the most important one, I think the

296
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most important one to mention, and I think we've kind

297
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of danced around it, but I think the most important

298
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one to mention is know what your audience wants. Yeah, no,

299
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they they clearly understand who their audience is. And they've

300
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probably done this through market research in order to figure

301
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out what are we going to do for our next

302
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Hallmark Christmas movie? You know what what resonates, what locations resonate,

303
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what occupations resonate, what deckcor did people like, what clothing

304
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did people like when they wore them? And to be

305
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able to take all of that, the fact that you

306
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know Christmas market, the fact that the shopping element is

307
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such an important part of it. It's and and gathering around,

308
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the gathering around the tree. Even the way they phrase it,

309
00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:31.559
you know, gathering around the tree. It's it's not come

310
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and look at the lights, it's gather around the tree

311
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and make new friends. It's it is basically bringing to

312
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life what the films represent. And so if if you

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can do that with your brand, for a Christmas event.

314
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You know, there's the takeaway right there. What do your

315
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what do? What do your guests want for Christmas? You know,

316
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Halloween is an opportunity, and spring and sometimes summer is

317
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an opportunity to reach out and grab more market share.

318
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But Christmas is a time to reward your most loyal

319
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guests by giving them a way to celebrate Christmas that

320
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is unique to your location. This sounds like and again

321
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I haven't experienced it, but it sounds like they've done

322
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pretty much that very very well.

323
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Yep.

324
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So you know, see, if you can figure out ask

325
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yourself those questions, what would our what would our core

326
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audience like as far as a Christmas celebration and try

327
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to bring that to life. Not what you want to do,

328
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not what you want, not what you want to superimpose

329
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on your brand, build, build your brand loyalty off of

330
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celebrating Christmas. So that would be my most important takeaway.

331
00:17:43.480 --> 00:17:47.680
Okay, all right, So we have a few other stories

332
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we didn't get to talk about in previous weeks but

333
00:17:49.839 --> 00:17:52.920
that I think are related to this in a way.

334
00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:57.400
I think more grifts, more immersive gifts in our Sure,

335
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I'm going to stretch this as long as I can.

336
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If I can make it work, eventually I will.

337
00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:06.400
So the next story is about how Mao Wolf is

338
00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:11.559
debuting a new immersive performance at Vegas and Denver. Inspired

339
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by the world of immersive theater and dance. Male Wolf

340
00:18:14.119 --> 00:18:18.359
is introducing the spectacle of phenomenally.

341
00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:29.640
Phenomenonally phenomenomenal mam lam, Yeah, phenomenon maale phenomenomally phenomenonmally phenomenomally

342
00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:30.319
Is that right?

343
00:18:30.920 --> 00:18:34.759
I don't know. Well, if it's not right, somebody it's

344
00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:37.200
not right, somebody from will contact us and yeah. So

345
00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:40.880
it's a new interactive performance layer unfolding on a continuous

346
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loop inside Meowulf'slas Vegas and Denver exhibitions. It runs from

347
00:18:44.680 --> 00:18:48.359
June twenty first through August ninth, so it's already running

348
00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:49.599
by the time that you all are listening to this.

349
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It's an immersive performance that blends life, theater, dance, puppetry,

350
00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:56.400
interactive moments into the fabric of the multiverse. After years

351
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of Captain genre painting festivals filled with interactive characters unforgetable moments,

352
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Mano Wolf is bringing that same energy inside of their exhibitions.

353
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Phenomenona and Minimimony is part of it's part of Mercy Theater,

354
00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:18.759
part art party, and part glow worm migration naturally. So overall,

355
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:22.559
here's the thing. This really goes back to, like thinking

356
00:19:22.559 --> 00:19:24.839
about what you're actually you guests want, I think in

357
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a way, So I think overall, as a strategy, I

358
00:19:28.880 --> 00:19:33.480
think this is really good. And it's because I always

359
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:35.720
question this about Vegas. You know, I know that they've

360
00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:37.960
received a THEA and everybody is always oh my goodness

361
00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:42.000
about it. I think the replayability in Vegas is pretty low,

362
00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:46.200
like for me personally and also for everyone I've ever taken.

363
00:19:46.240 --> 00:19:48.359
So I've gone there multiple three or four times with

364
00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:51.240
different groups of people, and nobody wants to go back,

365
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and I kind of definitely don't want to go back,

366
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and for the first time, I'm like, oh, I might

367
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want to go back, right, I mean, this is a

368
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thing where you're like, oh. I always think that that's

369
00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:09.680
the weird line with immersive that I've talked about before,

370
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where ultimately, if it's too immersive, it's not interesting because

371
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the whole reason we have entertainment is because our day

372
00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:19.680
lives are not interesting. And so if it's true immersive

373
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and you're you know, being an immersive office worker, like

374
00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:26.160
that's boring because that's already what I am. So I

375
00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:27.960
don't why would I want to go also be an

376
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office worker now, but like in a alien factory, like

377
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that's that's I mean to me. I think there's there's

378
00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:36.000
a fine line there where there needs to be some

379
00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:40.119
inherent entertainment. I think some aspect of it that in

380
00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:42.279
an immersive theater, because if it's going to be entertainment,

381
00:20:42.319 --> 00:20:44.799
you just be entertaining. It's not like, you know, I

382
00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:46.920
could just stand outside on my own balcony. Why do

383
00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:50.640
I need to do it? You know, an immersive environment

384
00:20:50.720 --> 00:20:53.960
like that. So I like the concept of adding a

385
00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:57.519
little bit more entertainment into where it still fits the

386
00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:01.759
world thematically because it's a glow migration, but it also

387
00:21:01.839 --> 00:21:05.039
is something that people can actually watch and actually kind

388
00:21:05.079 --> 00:21:08.200
of maybe participate in or enjoy in some way. It's

389
00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:11.160
on a loop, that's fine, but it's the same thing.

390
00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:13.599
I went to Ghost kind of Live recently, and it's

391
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:16.200
the same concept of it, where there is a beginning,

392
00:21:16.279 --> 00:21:19.440
a middle, end, and end right and everything that the

393
00:21:19.480 --> 00:21:22.960
people are doing during the day is culminates at the

394
00:21:22.960 --> 00:21:25.680
hoedown at four point thirty every day, and that's when

395
00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:27.720
you learn who won the challenges and who did this

396
00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:31.480
and who did that, and that adds again that element

397
00:21:31.559 --> 00:21:35.240
of entertainment to the immersive experience, so that you know,

398
00:21:35.279 --> 00:21:38.079
because again, if you're just walking through a town on

399
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:43.039
a regular Wednesday, that's not really very entertaining. So anyway,

400
00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:44.960
I know Scott probably has a much different take on it,

401
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:45.720
but that's my take.

402
00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:49.640
No, it's funny because for now I've not been to

403
00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:53.319
the Denver location, but I have been to Omegamart and

404
00:21:54.119 --> 00:21:57.759
when I went to Omega mart i was there. I've

405
00:21:57.759 --> 00:22:02.559
only been once and I would probably go again simply

406
00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:06.319
because there's some things that I didn't discover. But I

407
00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:10.799
realized that as I was just walking around without actually

408
00:22:11.279 --> 00:22:16.519
participating activating, it gets old really really fast. Yes, but

409
00:22:16.880 --> 00:22:19.920
the moment you start engaging and picking up things and

410
00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:22.559
listening to phone calls and asking questions over the computer

411
00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:25.160
and watching the videos that are tucked away in the

412
00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:29.119
corner that nobody's looking at, and then you realize, oh, okay,

413
00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:34.720
there's more here. But what I felt was here is

414
00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:41.880
they've built this remarkably bizarre multiverse world that is completely uninhabited.

415
00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:43.240
So it was like visiting a ghost town.

416
00:22:43.480 --> 00:22:44.319
Yeah exactly.

417
00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:47.160
It was like it's like, wait, where, but where are

418
00:22:47.319 --> 00:22:50.039
the inhabitants of this realm? Where where are the people

419
00:22:50.079 --> 00:22:53.279
who live here? The creatures or the entities that live here?

420
00:22:53.599 --> 00:22:55.519
Where where are they? And why are they?

421
00:22:55.519 --> 00:22:58.680
A great point because even every time, I think, in

422
00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:01.359
the four times I've went, right, only seen actors in

423
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:04.920
the first room, the actual Omega mart and not in

424
00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:09.319
any of the other sections. And only the first time,

425
00:23:09.359 --> 00:23:12.039
which was when they opened, did the actors even engage me.

426
00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:15.400
But I went with multiple groups the three other times

427
00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:20.200
I went, and no actor ever engaged them. And that

428
00:23:20.319 --> 00:23:22.599
you're right, You're exactly right. That was like the hardest

429
00:23:22.599 --> 00:23:26.079
part because it was literally me being like, hey, you're

430
00:23:26.119 --> 00:23:28.519
missing the whole experience. Come read this thing, or come

431
00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:30.640
do that. Like I was pulling the people to try

432
00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:33.200
and get them into the story because an actor wasn't

433
00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:36.079
doing it. There was nobody there, and they like didn't

434
00:23:36.119 --> 00:23:38.440
want to because they again they were just like you know,

435
00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:39.839
I mean, but to your point, if it had been

436
00:23:39.880 --> 00:23:42.319
like an actor who had in character I think come

437
00:23:42.400 --> 00:23:43.960
up and been like have you heard about the glower

438
00:23:44.079 --> 00:23:45.160
migration that's happening?

439
00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:48.039
You know precisely, and to be you know, nobody wants

440
00:23:48.079 --> 00:23:50.240
to say, hey, let's go to this art installation and

441
00:23:50.279 --> 00:23:56.000
read stuff. No exactly, No, you know, get the and

442
00:23:56.400 --> 00:23:58.759
from what this sounds like is that they're not just

443
00:23:58.839 --> 00:24:04.920
putting atmospheric actors to help further the story. They're actually

444
00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:08.599
creating using puppets and dance, and they're they're creating a

445
00:24:08.599 --> 00:24:09.440
different language.

446
00:24:09.720 --> 00:24:09.920
You know.

447
00:24:10.440 --> 00:24:12.400
It's part of the reason that that Sleep No More

448
00:24:12.440 --> 00:24:15.359
worked so well for so many years is because the

449
00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:20.039
performance aspect brings the area to life. If you just

450
00:24:20.119 --> 00:24:24.119
walked around the set of Sleep No More, it's boring,

451
00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:29.440
it's just dull and it and and the scenic is

452
00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:33.359
is fine, but it's not the it's not the star

453
00:24:33.440 --> 00:24:38.799
of the show. And with with Miao Wolf. When you

454
00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:42.599
get there, once you once you leave Omega Mart and

455
00:24:42.599 --> 00:24:45.640
find your way back through the cooler or however you

456
00:24:46.279 --> 00:24:53.400
enter the the realm, it is stunning. It's it's beautifully installed,

457
00:24:53.400 --> 00:25:00.640
it's it's visually quite impactful, but it's uninhabited. And that's

458
00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:02.799
the problem I have with it. You know, you say,

459
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:05.440
it's not that it's not that interesting to just be

460
00:25:05.480 --> 00:25:08.440
an office worker in an alien world, but The reason

461
00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:11.000
it's not interesting is because you're there on a Sunday

462
00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:13.200
when there's no other office workers there. That's true, you

463
00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:15.599
don't have co workers, right, yeah, So if you had,

464
00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:17.640
you know, say, for example, you were going to be

465
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:20.559
you were going to be cast as the guest. You know,

466
00:25:20.640 --> 00:25:22.799
your your role as the guest is to play an

467
00:25:22.799 --> 00:25:26.799
office worker in this this multi dimensional office. To have

468
00:25:26.880 --> 00:25:30.400
these whacked out office workers working side by side would

469
00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:31.359
be entertaining as hell.

470
00:25:31.759 --> 00:25:32.400
Yeah, it would be.

471
00:25:32.720 --> 00:25:34.839
It would help convey the story.

472
00:25:35.559 --> 00:25:38.799
Yeah, yeah, you're right. Yeah, that place is just there's.

473
00:25:38.640 --> 00:25:41.000
A story there. There's a story there, and you must

474
00:25:41.079 --> 00:25:43.559
and and I understand a lot of their their thought

475
00:25:43.599 --> 00:25:46.319
process in you know, you you get out what you

476
00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:47.759
you get out of it, what you put into it.

477
00:25:48.079 --> 00:25:50.960
I get that. I get that. But I think that

478
00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:57.640
by leaving, by leaving the space empty, you're not because

479
00:25:57.720 --> 00:26:02.960
real real worlds have inabitants, you know, and unless your

480
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:05.880
goal is to create a real world that is in

481
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:09.039
the middle of nowhere that you let guests in three

482
00:26:09.079 --> 00:26:16.279
at a time, you know, put inhabitants there, give the world,

483
00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:19.720
Give the world people who live there, people who can

484
00:26:20.759 --> 00:26:22.599
share the stories, or people who want to get out

485
00:26:22.640 --> 00:26:25.720
of there, or people who want to you know, draw

486
00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:28.640
more people, I don't know, give it that human element

487
00:26:29.319 --> 00:26:32.920
so that the world comes to life. And it sounds

488
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:37.480
like that's what they're doing here. And you know, even

489
00:26:37.519 --> 00:26:39.319
if it's just even if it's just seasonal. It's funny

490
00:26:39.319 --> 00:26:44.400
that you mentioned ghost Town Alive because you know how

491
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:46.279
much I love that. I just think ghost Town Alive

492
00:26:46.359 --> 00:26:48.240
is so much fun. And you're right, it has a beginning,

493
00:26:48.279 --> 00:26:49.720
of middle and an end, but you don't realize it

494
00:26:49.799 --> 00:26:51.319
until you get through the whole experience.

495
00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:51.640
Yeah.

496
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:56.319
And you also don't realize it necessarily until you decide

497
00:26:56.319 --> 00:26:58.799
to engage with the characters. Now, I will say the

498
00:26:58.799 --> 00:27:01.400
times that I've been, they work really hard to engage

499
00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:05.079
with getting they do. Yeah, So you have to actively

500
00:27:05.160 --> 00:27:08.279
say no in order to not be part of that experience.

501
00:27:09.039 --> 00:27:12.400
Yeah, which I think is again it's just me again.

502
00:27:12.440 --> 00:27:14.759
I think it's way better of that approach than the

503
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:19.000
Omega Mart where I get it, because they're like, it's

504
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:22.599
immersive and so they're busy working the you know, they're

505
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:26.279
they're doing their jobs in that their you know, their

506
00:27:26.319 --> 00:27:30.039
actor job is to be a clerk in this, you know,

507
00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:32.440
mar and a clerk wouldn't ask a customer for help,

508
00:27:32.480 --> 00:27:36.000
like I get that right again, No, I understand.

509
00:27:35.559 --> 00:27:38.039
The clerk could turn to a guest and say, oh,

510
00:27:38.079 --> 00:27:40.200
you must be the replacement. Can you come over here

511
00:27:40.200 --> 00:27:41.839
for a second please and type this letter for it?

512
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:42.039
Right?

513
00:27:42.599 --> 00:27:42.799
Right?

514
00:27:42.960 --> 00:27:44.440
Yeah, it's really.

515
00:27:44.599 --> 00:27:47.400
To you as part of the story. You're now not

516
00:27:47.519 --> 00:27:48.960
just a you're not just an observer.

517
00:27:50.319 --> 00:27:53.039
Yeah, I but yeah, I like the ghost Town of

518
00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:56.440
Live where they do bring you're right, I mean every

519
00:27:56.440 --> 00:27:59.440
time you walk through there, it's relatively I mean, I

520
00:27:59.440 --> 00:28:01.039
don't want to say it's aggressive, but it's like.

521
00:28:01.200 --> 00:28:05.519
They do like make the effort not passive. Yeah, yes,

522
00:28:05.559 --> 00:28:07.200
it's proactive versus reactive.

523
00:28:07.640 --> 00:28:10.000
Yeah. Like then they have roles that fit in the

524
00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:13.039
story where they are actively like do you have a paper?

525
00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:14.799
Here's the paper? Like there's a paper boy right that's

526
00:28:14.839 --> 00:28:16.400
giving you a paper and being like have you read

527
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:17.799
the news? Have you read this? Have you read that?

528
00:28:17.880 --> 00:28:22.119
Like there they have in world ways of on ramping

529
00:28:22.160 --> 00:28:25.519
people into the story in the easy way, and it

530
00:28:25.599 --> 00:28:27.240
might be you know, it's a theme park, yeah, and

531
00:28:27.279 --> 00:28:28.920
they have other things. It's just one part of the

532
00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:31.000
theme park, so you know that that could be part

533
00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:34.440
of it. Their throughput is inherently a different issue there.

534
00:28:34.839 --> 00:28:37.759
But yeah, and then it has the culmination everyone talks

535
00:28:37.759 --> 00:28:39.480
about it, Well, you have to be here for the hoeedown,

536
00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:40.759
you have to be here for the parade, and you

537
00:28:40.759 --> 00:28:42.440
have to be here. We'll find out, you know. So

538
00:28:42.519 --> 00:28:46.039
they're they're leading you to an event already inherently.

539
00:28:45.880 --> 00:28:48.640
Again using this pretty much the same model as Sleep

540
00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:51.240
No More. You know, you were you were herded physically

541
00:28:51.319 --> 00:28:54.880
in Sleep No More. You're heard it psychologically in in

542
00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:58.720
Ghost Town Alive. Yeah. Yeah, So I'm excited. I think

543
00:28:58.720 --> 00:29:01.599
this has This has great, but I'm hoping that it

544
00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:05.640
becomes more commonplace and not just a seasonal pop up.

545
00:29:06.119 --> 00:29:09.680
But to your point, I think it's also a great

546
00:29:09.680 --> 00:29:11.559
way to get people for return visitation.

547
00:29:12.279 --> 00:29:15.400
There needs to be something. I mean, like I was,

548
00:29:15.519 --> 00:29:18.400
I was thinking about the same thing thing with Epic

549
00:29:19.119 --> 00:29:21.839
and just very very briefly, we're gonna say that for

550
00:29:21.880 --> 00:29:22.599
the Pagron show.

551
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:26.119
But I was CUsing, you did Epic and you're ready

552
00:29:26.160 --> 00:29:28.960
to share your thoughts.

553
00:29:29.359 --> 00:29:32.400
Yeah, but I just want to really very quickly just

554
00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:34.759
draw the parallel. Right, So, there are new shows at EPIC,

555
00:29:34.799 --> 00:29:37.519
but there are also new shows at Hollywood Studios and

556
00:29:37.640 --> 00:29:40.359
at the Villain's Show in Hollywood Studios. We talked about

557
00:29:40.359 --> 00:29:43.240
this last time, but it's this idea of replayability. You know,

558
00:29:43.279 --> 00:29:46.039
the audience has a role to play in the show.

559
00:29:46.079 --> 00:29:47.960
They're not deserre to watch the show. You're there to

560
00:29:48.400 --> 00:29:51.759
listen to the villain's petitions and to decide which one

561
00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:55.279
you think has been the most unfairly treated. And you

562
00:29:55.279 --> 00:29:57.440
you have a role, and you're given you know, you

563
00:29:57.480 --> 00:29:58.759
have a job, you have a role, you have a

564
00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:00.920
thing to do. You know, you participate in that and

565
00:30:00.960 --> 00:30:01.920
the show does change.

566
00:30:01.960 --> 00:30:02.359
It does.

567
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:04.440
People say it doesn't, but it does. I've seen it.

568
00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:07.599
It does change in depends on what happens. And I

569
00:30:07.599 --> 00:30:11.039
think that is again, is what we're talking about. Does

570
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:12.480
the guests have a role? Do they have an impact

571
00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:15.039
on the consequences to their actions? And is an easy

572
00:30:15.079 --> 00:30:18.000
way to roll that even into entertainment like a stage show.

573
00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:22.559
Yep, absolutely well, Speaking of repeatability, hopefully we'll see you

574
00:30:22.599 --> 00:30:24.640
again next week because we're done for this week. And

575
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:28.240
also when it comes to repeatability, hopefully you will join

576
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:30.440
us if you haven't already, for Unhinged, which is our

577
00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:34.599
Patreon show, and in this Unhinged. This coming up, coming

578
00:30:34.680 --> 00:30:37.799
up Unhinged, which is hard to say. We're going to

579
00:30:38.119 --> 00:30:41.880
hear Phillips review on Epic and I'm going to try

580
00:30:41.880 --> 00:30:45.240
to keep him from being too snarky. I don't know,

581
00:30:45.240 --> 00:30:46.519
it's just say it's.

582
00:30:47.640 --> 00:30:49.640
We got a little spicy on this a little spicy

583
00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:50.119
on this show.

584
00:30:50.200 --> 00:30:52.400
I see it all get a little spicy on unhinged.

585
00:30:52.599 --> 00:30:56.079
But we'll just say keep a moderate level of spice

586
00:30:56.079 --> 00:30:58.440
for this show. And we will see you all next

587
00:30:58.480 --> 00:31:01.279
week right here on Green Tagged Theme Park in thirty
Scott Swenson, ICAE Profile Photo
Scott Swenson, ICAE

For over 30 years, Scott Swenson has been bringing stories to life as a writer, director, producer, and performer. His work in theme parks, consumer events, live theatre, and television has given him a broad spectrum of experiences. In 2014, after 21 years with SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment, Scott formed Scott Swenson Creative Development. Since then he has been providing impactful experiences for clients around the world. Whether he is installing shows on cruise ships or creating seasonal festivals for theme parks, writing educational presentations for zoos and museums or training the next generation of attractions professionals, Scott is always finding new ways to tell stories that engage, educate and entertain.

Philip Hernandez, ICAE Profile Photo
Philip Hernandez, ICAE

CEO of Gantom, Publisher of Haunted Attraction Network

Philip is a journalist reporting on the Haunted House Industry, Horror events, Theme Parks, and Halloween. He is also the CEO of Gantom Lighting and Founder / Publisher of the Haunted Attraction Network, the haunted attraction industry's most prominent news media source. He is based in Los Angeles.