Disney Details Monstropolis, Six Flags Reveals Werewolf Gorge

0:00 Okay, from our studios in Los Angeles and Tampa. This is Green Tagged theme Park in thirty. I'm Philip from Gantum Lighting Controls, and I'm joined by Scott Swinson of Scott Swinson Great Development. On Green tag we look at the. Top news each week and we try and pick the stories we think are most impactful to theme park professionals. We discussed them here on the show. We ask questions, we open debate, and we encourage everyone please comment down below. We love reading your comments and seeing feedback from you all that what we got right, what we got wronging on what you think of our ticks on everything. And we're recording this a little bit early. We're recording this on Thursday, June fourth, So if some news has dropped since you are watching this, that's. Why we're not talking about it. But we are going to talk about some of the big announcements from Disney for their new lands, and we don't we'll just see how far we get. We'll start with Disney, okay, okay, and I don't think and we may get to six flags.

0:53 I don't know. We'll see. Let's hope we get the six flags, because that's why every numbers to go on. Our numbers always go up when we have six flags in the show. So that's good. I wish it weren't true, but here we are and it is. It is. Meanwhile at Disney. Meanwhile, at Disney in Florida, we have details from Monstropolis, breaking news from Monstropolis. I always mentioned myself as that news camera guy, you know, who's. Like breaking news. Yeah, in the Monstropolis, that's me. But anyway, so I'm going to read some sections here from my colleague Danny, who reported at a Trash's magazine, And this is coming from a media event that was done by a small amount of media. They went to and they toured the construction side, and Disney presented them about what their plans are from Montreropolis. Basically, so I'm going to read excerpts from my colleague Danny. So she says, imagineers have created a story that places visitors directly into the world of Monsters, inc, transforming them from observers into participants in a citywide celebration called Human Day.

1:57 And that's h u m a n Day. A Human Day is a citywide celebration that takes place after the events of the original Monster's film and the Human Day stands where humans understanding monsters are nice and celebrates the growing relationship between the human and monster worlds following the discovery that laughter is more important than screams. Guests will become part of the story. Cast members will serve as human relations representatives, welcoming visitors to Monstropolis and helping them participate in the festivities. Imagineers explain that not every monster is completely comfortable with Human Day. Some monster residents remain nervous about around humans, and even the Child Detection Agency still has its concerns. Those tensions will help drive the land storytelling interactions. Interactivity is a big thing that they were talking about apparently during this meeting. They describe Monstreropolis as a fully interactive city filled with attractions, dining and shopping, entertainment, and environmental storytelling. This sounds similar to Zootopia for those that have seen Zutopia. They talked about the story moments being found in the actual environment itself and happening around you in the windows and in the easter eggs, which is very similar to Zootopia, where there's big windows all around that are telling stories and that are tied into the ride, so that's similar there.

3:12 They talked about a little bit we've known about the Suspended Monsters coaster, we've talked about that before on the show, but they also shared details about a theater experience that centered on human Day while also offering a glimpse at the future home of the coaster. So there's pictures out there. I'm sure you've all seen. About the the. Coaster site and the construction that's happening on that. They talked a lot about how the theater, the new theater show is going to have some of the most some of the highly technical and unlike anything the company has previously attempted on a theatrical stage. So that's interesting. So, Scott, what I want to talk to you about in particular is the framing around the story and how much they're emphasizing the act they do interactivity and the story, and it would appear on the surface as if they're doing what you always suggest to do, which is to give guests a role. And also they're giving us the tensions, and they're doing it in a way that's not really setting up villains per se, but like just natural tensions, like some monsters aren't easy, and there's still this government agency you know that used to deport children, and now what are they supposed to be doing, you know, And so it's an interesting framing. It sounds a little bit to me like some of their pitches for Galaxy's Edge.

4:30 But maybe they learned from Zoutopia and from Galaxy's Edge, right, because the the wind, the you know, the window dressing stuff is I think lifted exactly from Dutopia. So, Scott, from a storytelling perspective, what do you think? Well it you know, in listening to this and I have I've briefed over this, but really have not dug too deeply into what has been released and what they're planning on doing. The first thing might the sarcastic side of me says, hey, look they're doing hogsmeat. But that's funny. Oh wow, that's true. Oh I didn't think about that yet. And digon alley and you know, yeah, so it's it's I'm glad, I mean, I'm glad that they are. They are playing a little bit of catch up here, you know, the the even down to the uh they're the easter eggs that help tell the story in the windows in the window dressing. Well, yeah, grab a wand let's go.

5:23 That's fine because the windows are literally interactive with people with ones because they're casting spells and they're triggering effects in there. And they do that with the magic band stuff too, So it's not like Disney doesn't do it, but they know they have the magic band stuff. Yeah, it's it's but it's but here it is. It is more tied directly to the story itself as opposed to just something cool that happens. So, uh so I think that's great. I think that you know them. It also kind of refers to something that we've talked about on the show before too, and that is taking taking the world that has been created and we've gotten glimpses of in the films, and going beyond that and developing it further. I mean, you know, this could conceivably be the next movie, uh you know, so that it becomes you know, Monsters inc. Human Day is the next film, so that it actually grows out of the attraction as opposed to the attraction growing out of the film. So you know, we've and we've talked about this too, that it's that pendulum goes back and forth and you know, Disney has always been far more comfortable in taking a film first and then creating an attraction for it. However, they saw such great success with with Pirates of the Caribbean and that whole franchise, not so much with Hunted Mansion.

6:43 But but they they created a whole franchise based on an attraction. So who knows that may be that may be in the works. It may be their way of testing out this these storylines. But I am I'm tickled pink to see that they are incorporating the guests and giving them and in essence giving them a character to play. That is it sounds like it's the right level of activity. You know, you mentioned Galaxy's Edge. I think the challenge with with Galaxy's Edge is you were it was forced participation. You There was too much that you had to know and do in order to integrate and become part of this world here it is you are a human being, and just by being a human being, you are in in in the conflict. You know. I also think that it's interesting that in a time and I know that this well, I assume this was not necessarily planned this way, but in a time where bias and prejudice is part of our daily lives. It's something that we all understand.

7:47 To take it and disnify it with with a you know, monsters versus humans instead of making it racial or gender or whatever. I think that's interesting because we all automatically know it. You know, good stories. I'm a firm believer that good stories are existing stories with new sauce, you know, with new with new flavors, with new twists, because you have to understand the world that you don't have a whole lot of exposition time when you go to a theme park, so you have to make certain that the exposition is clear and easily understood so that you can immediately start having fun, you know, and you can immediately start playing your role in what the overarching story is going to be. So, you know, I'm excited to see that.

8:36 I'm excited to see that it is even though the first announcement was, hey, there's a Monster's ink ride, and now it's the focus has shifted to a realm or a more immersive, fully engaging experience, you know, the focus, but the focus is always going to be on the ride because that's the easiest thing to sell. That's the easiest thing to push, and in some cases that's the only participation some guests want to do. They want to go ride the ride, have a good time, scream, and then move on to the next thing. They couldn't care less about the ip, They couldn't care less about finding the Easter eggs, they couldn't care less about having sushi. They couldn't care less about any of those things. They just want to do the ride and go on. So it sounds like if they continue to if they continue to follow this intent, it sounds like they're providing the correct levels or at least varying levels of interactivity and participation so that everybody can have a good time. I also think it's really smart because it does really lean in heavy to the family audience. It's not just the iddy biddies, and and it doesn't get too far into the adult realm. It's something the family can do together.

9:54 You know. It's at thirty five to forty four range and their kids. And I think that's right. I think that sounds intelligent from a business standpoint, but I love the fact that they are buying into make the guests a part of the story, not just passive observers. And here, you know, will every single guest who goes there understand this? Probably not, but you know, and the argument is, and I've had clients who will say this quite a bit. You know, you put way too much You put way too much time thinking in letting us know how the characters feel or what they what they're trying to accomplish. The guests will never figure that out, and I have to explain to them it's not for the guests, it's for the performers. It's for the people who are working there so that they have a framework so that they can create interesting characters. You know, the character's job is not to fill in every single story detail. The character's job is to create an interesting character or have an interesting engagement with the audience, with the guests, and if they don't know why they're doing it or what part they play in the story, they are unable to do that. So, you know, and this goes It's again, there are still those people who think that's absolute malarchy and you don't need that to have a good theme park experience. But I still think that our guests are getting smart enough to recognize that this is what they need to do.

11:15 This is what you have to do in order to you have to you have to have a strong enough backstory that the audience may get, the guests may get in glimpses. Those who are super fans, will you know, interrogate and grill every single employee, every single character to get all of the details out of there. That's great, and then they'll go and say, you got to go do this. It's super cool to someone who really does couldn't care less, but it still gets them to come. So it's it's good for the product, it's actually good for word of mouth marketing, and it's something that whether you see it directly or indirectly, it improves the overall guest experience. Yep, I like, I think the most interesting thing is just you talking about the exposition time. I think that's something a lot of uh, you know, people in our industry kind of forget about, which is that the especially in hunt Houses and any of these attractions, your exposition time is very very short, especially in this situation where you're one part of a larger hub and spoke park.

12:21 Right. I don't think it's hubin spoke or you know what I mean, You're you're you're one part of a larger theme park. You're one land in a theme park, and yeah, there's this whole narrative and all the things happening, but you're just one land ultimately in part of a larger story. So you're already having this confusion where you're it's not like you're just you're going to you know, ever land, or you're going to a thing that has a singular a singular storyline. You know, you're already in the middle of different storylines. And I actually really like the framing of this because you I can see it in my head where it's like there's a I could envisioned a big banner above the entryway that says, you know, welcome humans to Human Day. And then you could see where this could be an icebreaker for every cast member in that area.

13:02 All they have to do is say, oh, are you enjoying Human Day? What have you been today? Yeah? Yeah, and then they could you know, you could see where this could just evolve from there to your point. This gives all the cast. Members a background to work from and say, where supposed to be welcoming these people into our culture, into our monster world. So I can ask them how their day at human is if they've done the festivities, I can ask them if they have met any monsters whatever, and it all fits. It fits they're talking about you know, well monsters. Monsters are our friends. Many of them are our friends. Just like humans. You know. It gives them a perfect, a perfect narrative to play off of. And you know, you mentioned going back to the the exposition thing. The lack of exposition time is why so many attractions are only only feel comfortable creating or building upon stories that have been already presented.

13:59 In films, right, you know, or you know, anything that that has been presented in another medium provides a great deal of support and does most of the heavy lifting when it comes to the actual experience. And this has worked. You know, this has worked really well. Uh. I think I think it works really well in Ministry of Magic, for example. That's not really part of a film, but it's it's a logical progression. I think it. I don't think Avatar worked quite as well because that was supposed to be a connecting material from one film to another, and then the film was delayed, so it just kind of got hung out there to dry. So it I mean, it was it's a it's a lovely attraction. It's got lots of fun stuff. But from a storytelling standpoint, I think people get confused. And you know, that's one of the first things I learned in theater from a directing professor is never confused the audience. So right, that's right, just takes a long time to overcome that.

15:03 It does seem like this is in the line of progression writ large that we've seen in themed entertainment, which is going from like what exactly what you're saying, going from the old attract quote unquote old attractions that are really just recreating scenes from the movie. So you're just you're just like, you know, walking into the movie and this is like you're saying, it's a it's a it's in world in terms of the but it's not retelling a scene from the movie. Right, We're not doing that where we're making a new scene that fits in the in the world, and we're using everything that we can in the time that we have the setting, the backdrop, the sounds, you know, the everything that you're walking into to get that exposition quickly, and then we're giving the rest of it for the cast members so they can keep reinforcing that narrative and so it's it's like it's a new story within the universe.

15:55 Yeah, the moment you can the moment you can answer the question for your cast members, who is this guest, who is this park goer? To me? What is my relationship with them? And and it goes past they're coming to a theme park that I work at. It's it's much more impactful and creates for a much more seamlessly enjoyable experience. I mean, another Disney attraction. And this just came across my feed because I think it's an anniversary or something. But you know, back in the back in the day of Alien Encounter, part of the challenge with Alien Encounter was the exposition needed to make it understandable as to why it was so damn scary. Is missed at the consequences Basically, yeah.

16:38 Yeah, you had to you had to provide a bit more, a bit more backstory before you could go that gut wrenchingly terrifying. Now where it had where it worked classically in a non film based attraction is the Haunted Mansion. You know, part of the reason for the Haunted you know, the extending room in the haunted mansion and the whole exterior and the all of that is there's your exposition. There's where you realize, you know, this character, all of these characters have have passed on and we've got you know, room for one more all you know, all the all the ghosts, and it's basic, but it sets you up. If you had gone straight from the if you go straight from the and I'm thinking here in Florida, from the rest of you know, Frontierland or Liberty Square, and they didn't have the big facade and they didn't go into the the extend the extending room and you just walked straight in and got in the doom buggies. That would have freaked people out. You didn't have that transition out of reality into the world, and you didn't have that that base of exposition. But this has it, and I think that's I think that's very cool. Right.

17:48 We've spent a little bit longer on the side intended. But I want to last thing I wanted to mention. I just I think it's important to tease out from some of the stuff you're saying, is that I think the kinetic environment is also part of it, where you know, they talk about the windows and whatever. Basically we won't know until it opens, but from all of these subscriptions, I'm guessing this is going to be, like I said, closer to utopia, but and what I mean by that is closer to something where it looks like a city, like the environment itself has kinetic motion and there is interesting things to look at just by standing there, like as in you can be entertained by just walking into the land, is my theory, because that is how zutopia is.

18:31 You don't have to really have to do much. And that was one of the big successes when the Disland Shanghai team was talking to us at their presentation last year about Utopia Land, is that there's so the landing of itself, the environment is entertaining, and so people just look at the environment, they take pictures with the windows. You know, there's that whole thing, and it's almost like that was like a new discovery. And I think that's exactly what you see at Epic Universe. We've talked about how at night it's a beautiful park at night because of all the kinetic stuff happening in the park, and this is exactly what Galaxy's Edge is lacking because it's boring, like. Right, it's just there's nothing going on.

19:12 And it's like, if you think about it, even the cities in the Star Wars universe do have things happening or there there was there was potential for there to be aliens or things happening in there. Theming. Theming does not start, does not stop with scenic theming has to has to carry over into not just what do I look at, but what do I do when I'm here? And what is done either to me or with me when I'm here? You know, and I and I think that, and I think we've seen that again. I think one of the biggest leaps forward that I've experienced was the various Potter universes or Potter realms. At Universal I think they tried. I think they tried at Galaxy's Edge, but I don't think it was as successful.

19:58 And part of it is because even the things that are meant to be atmospheric and help with the exposition of the land are behind fences or are set up in planters, or don't look as though they actually belong in a real place. It's it's still you have to you have to d theme park guys the theme park, you know, the Muppet Realm in studios. I thought was a good step forward. I thought that was really fun. But it's yeah, I'm as we say, many as we've said for the last what six years, five years, however long we've been doing the show. It comes down to the execution. But if they if they execute what they're saying they're going to execute, I'm excited to see it.

20:43 Right. That's a great segue into the next story, which is about six Flags. Ah. Good, that means we've got lots of numbers. Yeah, it's a good time. I think we just titled the show six Flag Stuff and other information. Yes, coo, well that could be a you know, we could make a spinoff podcast and that could be the podcast. It's off you by Spinach Espresso. Anyway, go ahead, imagine. So six Flags Fiesta Texas announced Werewolf Gulch sorry, Werewolf Gorge. Okay. It's a family launch roller coaster that delivers thrills, immersive storytelling ooh, and a dynamic multi generational experience by combining a mix of right elements, including four launches, a mid course rollback, and a thirty nine inch high requirement set to become the longest roller coaster in the park history, just Fiesta, Texas history. A Werewolf Gorge stretches an impressive four and twenty feet and delivers things alerting two minute, thirty six second adventure featuring launches speeds up to forty five miles per hour.

21:46 It's manufactured by. A Bacoma And anyway, the reason this is interesting is because they keep pushing on the family thing, right both six Flags and all the pressure is pushed on that. And also because the where wolf supposedly this is gon have narrative elopments like there's going to be It sounds like it's going to be similar to hagrids in that there are were wolf elements and special effects and things happening in the environment and whatnot. So it's an interesting parallel to the conversation we just had because it doesn't to me, it seems like they're still missing the exposition we've just talked. About, why are you in a werewolf gulch? What is happening?

22:26 What are you doing what? But but for six Flags, you know, it's interesting because at least they're uh making the immersion or the storytelling components a big part of this, and and that they're honing so much in on it being family and it being like a family thrill thing. And these are seems like there are those are the two trends that are interesting for the six Flags audience. Yeah, well, and I think that you know, Flags, the Flags parks have talked about storytelling, have talked about you know, creating and I used the biggest quotes possible immersive environments.

23:11 But you know, I going back to my favorite Flags park, which is Great America in Gurney, because that's the park I grew up in. When it opened under Marriott's regime, it was truly a theme park. It had different theming in each land. The rides were themed specifically to that, and anytime they added something or took something away, like if they moved a ride from one location to another, they re themed it. So it fit into the new thematic realm. Is that full storytelling? Not really, But if you are walking into New Orleans place, you already have a preconceived notion of what the kinds of things you're going to see, the coloring you're going to see that, so it it gives you at least a little bit of of precursor to the story itself. I think they're hoping that just werewolf the werewolf lore is enough to give you enough backstory to have this make sense.

24:10 Here's I can read more about the actual backstory, but I think you're right. But I'm going to be fair and read and read the rest for them. YEA, so they say here that Werewolf Gorge places guests at the center of a mysterious, sexist cory steeped in legend and inspired by the park's real quarry setting. What begins as a guided tour aboard. A rugged mining train quickly transforms into a high speed escape through twisting train as writers encounter a centuries old werewolf curse. The attraction features of fully realized environment that extends beyond the right itself, immersing guests from a rival to exit. The ride introduces a new story world centered around Jasper Bunyan, an eccentric entrepreneur who transformed a forgotten qurey into a roadside trash and filled with cryptic, cryptid lore, interactive exhibits and unexpected danger lurking beneath the surface as part of of the roadside traction, and guests will experience seemed q spaces so maybe there is exposition including a museum of cryptids that's interesting, and the Werewolf Museum adding depth human world building to the overall experience. And it was unveiled during the big ceremony they actually held on May thirtieth, which was during the blue moon.

25:18 So what I find interesting is, though you know, we talked about storytelling as what you see versus what you're what you do versus what you see, this is all describing stuff that you see. That's right. It does not it does not give us you know, we're we're guests going through an attraction, yes, playing guests going through an attraction. That's right. So you know, maybe that's how they sidestep the uh, the backstory or the you know, the exposition. But but in some of the images that I've seen, I mean, it looks like it's going to be fun. I will say it does. It sounds it sounds very similar to the the Coaster and Isle of Burke at Epic YEP which has just enough story. But the thing that that has going for it again is the whole exposition, not only of the films, but also of the land that you're coming out of. You know, you're already in the entire immersive land of Burke when you get on the coaster, and so it's a very it's a much shorter leap than going from the middle of a concrete theme park into a cryptid museum.

26:32 That's right, So an interesting approach if we're mapping this, right. The idea behind Monstropolis is that the entire land has a narrative, right, you know, from from the transition point from the other lands into it, and all of the cast members know the narrative and all that, and so in theory we don't know for sure. Again back to that execution right, right, but in theory, all of the supporting attractions will fit in that narrative. So the land itself reinforces the narrative of the attractions reinforce it, and so then you had this whole narrative happening. And so that's what I think what you're saying is missing here in this case, Like they have to do all the exposition in the ride queue because they're not building like a werewolf gorge as a themed environment like, which could have been a different approach, or they could have said, this entire area is just going to be a well werewolf area, and we're going to have posters up about mysterious people going missing and things happening, and stuff that builds the you know, put in some soundscapes and whatever, which could all be easily done, just put up a few a few scenic elements that could build the exposition.

27:35 So instead it's all going to happen just while waiting in line, and hopefully you read it. I guess you read it, you listen to it, you look at it, but there's nothing that engages you, right, you know, it is still your responsibility to gather the information as opposed to you being part of the information sharing process, right yeah, right now. I will say that that, you know, in some of the work that I've done for Cedar Fair in the past, they were very much interested in creating realms. But what ends up happening is there's an operational challenge too that in order to create a realm, you have to have a bigger footprint, and if you've got a theme park that is locked in in the amount of space that they have, they have to make those decisions, those tough decisions of you know, well, are we going to create a new because it's to redo a new realm is significantly more expensive than adding a new ride, so they have to look at it from that from that point of view as well, and they have to have the finances to do it. So I'm not trying to be I don't think either of us are trying to be negative towards this is the approach.

28:37 They're making efforts, they are trying, and I appreciate that, but I think what's missing is stop just talking about what people see and look at as they walk through the queue, and start finding ways for them to engage prior to the ride itself, so that they can learn by. Doing right right, And it's you're right about We're not. I think this is overall a good thing. I think it's going to be fun. I think it's going to be It looks fun, it looks like a great fun ride. It looks so everything about it looks great. I am excited to see it. I'm just trying to draw the delineation, like in the storytelling here, and you know, but to be fair, I don't think we would never even really talked about storytelling in the six Flags context a few years ago.

29:20 Correct. Correct? I think this is definitely a step in the right direction and I think it's I think talking about these two different stories side by side is really important because what we're showing is this is a trend that's happening in the theme park world right on different levels, and it depends on which level the companies are comfortable with, which levels the companies can afford, which levels are right with all the other factors that come into creating a new attraction. So the fact that they are making an effort to do this, the fact that it's not just let's do a roller coaster that's painted with werewolves on it, you know, the fact that it's not just that because we know that six Flags has done that in the past. You know, like I go back to the Joker coaster at six Flags Great America. Reason, the only thing that it has anything to do with the Joker is the signage and the color scheme of the coaster itself. That's it.

30:07 So you know, this is significantly elevated from that. And so it sounds like it sounds like they're headed headed in the right direction. And unfortunately we have to be headed in the right direction as well, because our time is up. So I hope you guys have enjoyed the show. Thank you very much again for listening. For those of you who listen usually on I had a friend of mine say, oh my gosh, I have to make sure that the show is released on the right day because I always panic if I see it and it's not Monday, because that's how I start my week. So for those of you who start your week with the show, thank you very much. We appreciate it. And on behalf of Philipernandez with Gantum Lighting and Control of Myself Scott Swinson with Scott Swinson Creative Development. This is Green Tag Theme Park in thirty and we will be thrilled to see you all next week