June 15, 2025

Disney’s Midjourney Lawsuit: Can Copyright Contain AI?

Disney and Universal just opened Hollywood’s first heavyweight copyright war against Midjourney, arguing the AI was trained on “countless stolen works.”

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Disney and Universal just opened Hollywood’s first heavyweight copyright war against Midjourney, arguing the AI was trained on “countless stolen works.” Philip and Scott debate the case and what it means if your park’s creative team. Then Disney drops a fresh study valuing its U.S. parks at nearly $67 billion and 400,000 jobs, a powerful flex to hedge against future political turmoil. Listen to weekly BONUS episodes on our Patreon.

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Okay.

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From our studios in Los Angeles and Tampa. This is

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green tagt Theme Park in thirty. I'm Philip and I'm

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joined as always by my co host Scott Swinson of

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Scott Swinson Creative Development. On Green Tag, we break down

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the week's top news in theme parks and explain why

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it matters to professionals. And this week we're gonna be

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talking about how Disney is the first to join with

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other companies in the suit against AI, the first like

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massive AI suit.

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It's very exciting.

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Yes, yes, well it's I mean, it's exciting, it's inevitable,

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and you know, these are these are the kinds of

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things that that have to be sorted through because again

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I don't I don't think. I don't think either of

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us are going to say we're gonna be AI bashing

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here too much. But the idea is we have to

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set these ground rules. We have to figure out where

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the where the lines are and where the marks are.

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Oh speak for yourself. I'm I'm okay.

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I brought my AI bashing toolkit, Phi Phillips going to

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AI bash and I'm going to keep moving forward in

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the world.

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So fine, fine, okay, Scot Okay, so.

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The gloves are off, we've already started. Okay, this this

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sounds like more like an unhinged actually, but anyway, all right, yeah,

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so go ahead, Phlip, you can set the tone for

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this thing.

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I will set the tone. I'm going to read excerpts

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here from the NPR article. It says, in a first

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of its kind lawsuit, entertainment companies Disney and Universal are

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suing AI firm mid Journey for copyright infringement. The one

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hundred and ten page lawsuit, followed Wednesday in the US

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District Court in Los Angeles includes detailed appendances illustrating the

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plaintiffs' claims with visual examples and alleges that mid Journey

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stole countless copyright works to train its AI engine in

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the creation of age generated images. Many companies have gone

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after AI firms or copyright infringement, such as New York Times,

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Sony Music Group, and et cetera, et cetera. This is

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the first time major Hollywood players have joined the fight

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against the AI landscape.

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So that's that's the gist of it.

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I read in a different article that they're the damages

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are seeking is one hundred and fifty thousand dollars per infringement,

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and so that would be you know, billions and billions

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and billions.

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So my hot take and then I'm going to get.

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I'll let Scott give the more nuanced take, probably my

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take here. First disclosure, neither Scott nor I are attorneys.

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We do not practice law in any states whatever. We're

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not financial advisors either, So take all those things as disclosures. However,

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I don't see any way in which this is not infringement,

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Like it's clear copyright infringement, Like you look at the

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examples and you can look at how you can create

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an exact copy in mid journey of Mickey and I

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have been saying this since the AI started with this.

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It is clear cop right infringement. It's clearly taking content.

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But at the same time, the genies out of the bottle,

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like the horse has left the stable, like it's gone.

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I don't think that there is realistically a way to

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go back, because we've kind of we've let this loose

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and we've let it happen. And I think that the

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move by these companies is going to be to continue

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to appeal and to drag it out in court in

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hopes that they can just delay these because I mean,

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I mean, depending on what the what the amount esileians

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it being. I mean, some of these companies are large

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enough that they could pay the fines and still be fine.

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I mean, even if it's ten billion, anthropic and open

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AI would be able to handle that. So but I

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think these types of suits are absolutely essential because we

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need ground rules for how AI is going to operate,

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and they have ground rules in other countries. It's really

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just America where it's it's the it's the wild West here.

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So I understand the technical, the technological argument from folks

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where if you put any sort of guardrails around it,

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it's going to inhibit the expansion of AI, which is

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going to put us behind other countries. But I would

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push back against that in that. You know, again, we

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generally try to put guardrails around things that are just

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that are relatively unsafe or lead at theft, whatever. But

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in a way though, I do kind of think it's

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it's kind of gone beyond. I think now it's really

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just us trying to come up with rules as to

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how you're going to monetize it. Right, if you are

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using Mickey's image to create something on your own then, Mont,

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I think that's what we're gonna have to come at

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it from the from the from the I guess, to

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the back end, or from a different angle where basically

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you're gonna have to look at it at the end.

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Use case, if you have a theme park that is

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using mid journey, you know, to create something they are monetizing,

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I think that's when you're going to have to come out.

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I don't think you're gonna be able to stop anything.

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You're just kind to come at it from attacking, from

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going at it where people are making money down down

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long stream. So if people are selling merchandise that is,

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you know whatever. I think that's what we're gonna have

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to come at it. I think it's there's no way

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to stop it now anyway.

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Okay, Scott, Well, so first of all, again I want

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to stress something that Philip just said. Neither of us

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are lawyers. But in the in the little bit that

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I've read about this suit, it says that they are

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going after them for utilizing copywritten imaging imagery to train

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the AI. Correct Yeah, train the AI. So they're not

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going after the fact that they are duplicating copywritten imagery.

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What they are going after is the fact that they're

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using copywritten imagery to train the AI is that the

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way you understand it, because you've you've doubbled into this

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much more than I have.

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Yeah, the way I understand it is that that's what

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they're saying they're using to train it, and their proof that.

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The way they're proving this is by saying that you

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can go into mid journey and ask it for prompts

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and it will create exact replicas basically, So that's the

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way they're proving it is. They're proving it by saying

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you're doing this, And I guess my point is they're

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definitely gonna win, but it's not gonna do anything, or

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maybe they're not, But you know what I mean, It's like,

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what's the point They've already trained it?

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But I guess I guess my point is, are we

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talking about using copywritten images as inspiration or are we

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use it talking about replicating copywritten images, because replicating copywritten images, yes,

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is copyright infringement. However, there's an entire market out there

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of things called fan art. People in when they go

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into educational services, when they go into universities, they are

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utilizing copywritten images all the time. I know fifteen people

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who I can get I can get on speed dial

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that can give you a that can sit down and draw,

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freehand from memory a perfect image of Mickey Mouse, simply

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because they've been inspired by Mickey Mouse. So I guess

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that's where I think this is a slippery slope. You know,

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and don't misunderstand me. I am not saying that you

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should be able to use AI to create an image

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that is identical to something that is copywritten.

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You know.

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There's it goes back to the basics that I always understood.

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It's like, you know, what is it sixty percent difference

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something like that, so that it becomes something new, It

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becomes an original work of parity. Well, not necessarily. Parody

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does not have to be sixty percent. Parody can be

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less as long as it is judged a parody. However,

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if you are inspired by something, you know, I can't

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all of a sudden take Mickey Mouse, draw him exactly

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the same way, only change the shape of his tail,

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call him, you know, Ricky rat and get away with it. No,

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because it's not a sixty percent difference. But what the

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lawsuit what I'm looking at with the lawsuit is that

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they are going after them for using images to train

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their AI. Yeah, that's where I have That's where I

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raise question. And again I am neither a lawyer nor

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am I an expert on AI, so I can't I

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can't really come at this with a strong arsenal of

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reasons for it. But if they're training AI, how is

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that any different from you, Philip, going to animation school

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and studying case studies of you know, Mickey Mouse, Frozen whatever.

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You're being inspired by those things. You are being in

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essence trained by existing imagery. Help me understand how that's different.

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Yeah, I think that this is. I mean, that's probably

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why it's a suit.

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Is it's going to have to That's what I mean

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when we say we're gonna have to have ground rules, right,

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because I think that what you're basically saying is humans

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get educated, and part of that education is learning from

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previous masters in any art form.

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Correct.

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And even you know, when I did writing, you know,

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like I you know, I think every writer has phases

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where you're kind of writing like other people and then

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and then you find your own voice, correct, I think,

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And I think like that's the key is the human

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creating its own voice. And I think that's kind of

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what again for humans, that's what that's how you know,

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when when you make your own voice, you know, like

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I think it's like it's fine to study other people's work, right,

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and then when you make your own voice and that's

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what you put out there, and then that's that's yours,

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it's it's your creation.

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Right.

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So I think, though, where we need to set the

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ground rules is exactly in this debate, where's the line?

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Because AI is not a human and in this case,

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you are quite literally downloading material that you don't have

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rights to and giving it into a thing that then

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you are selling. So like that's the key here is

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that they're selling mid Journey and they're selling basically the

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ability to copy precisely somebody else's work.

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The ability to But like I said, that ability exists

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right now. I have, like I said, fifteen people in

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my phone bank who could draw Mickey Mouse. They could

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duplicate it to the nth degree, and that would be

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illegal because they duplicated to the nth degree. But that's

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not what the lawsuit is saying. The lawsuit is about

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training the AI and the reason these people can do

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This is because they have been trained by looking at

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the copy written material over and over and over again.

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And you yourself, you know, you, yourself, Philip have told

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me that AI only gives you what you ask for,

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so you know, it does it quickly. It helps you

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find the stuff that you need. But if you, as

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the human being, as the human operator, don't input the

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right thing, it ain't gonna find it for you. So

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you know, you say it's not human, which is true.

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It is not. It is not sentient, at least not yet.

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We'll see. I've seen, you know, the horror films or

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the sci fi films. But you know, when with a

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lawsuit where it says and again, let me finish my

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point first, when the lawsuit says you are using copywritten

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information and copywritten imagery and copywritten data basically to train

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your AI. That's no different than going to university and

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doing case studies. Yeah. The difference is it does it

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quicker and it can retain it longer. And that's why

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we have to find these these What these guardrails are?

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You know you mentioned that there were guardrails in other countries.

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What are those guardrails?

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Do you know? I don't know Yeah, so I think

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this is this is exactly. It's a little bit like

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both of us are not attorneys, but we're trying to

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argue this thing. So I think we've already but what.

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We're doing is we're arguing it based on our on

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our understanding, on our current understanding of what the question is,

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what the lawsuit is, and what the actual power of

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AI is.

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Yeah, and I think all this I think to bring

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it back to before I answer your question directly, I

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just wanted to set the context. Like, I think the

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reason we're talking about this on the show is because

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these are the types of like I think stickiness that

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you were going to get into all of us are,

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especially if theme park operators, script writers, all this kind

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of stuff, because we're all have access to these tools, right,

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And we've talked about previously how Disney already got into

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some hot water for putting that AI artwork. I mean

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it's out in public view, right, not just using it

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for mockups and putting it out into a finished attraction.

237
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And so I think that's why we're talking about this,

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is that it does get sticky because you can I mean,

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you really can just go into Majory and say, Mickey

240
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Mouse smoking a cigarett at you know whatever, and it

241
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gives you the exact copy of Mickey swoggy, I mean,

242
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does it.

243
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To Scott's point, it's up to the human to put in.

244
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But but to their point, they're like, well, it's allowing

245
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people to spit out exact copyright infringement things. And you're like, well,

246
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but then that's I think my point is there's no

247
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way to catch I think my point is it's done with,

248
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it's already. This is probably gonna settle or it's going

249
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to be dragged through courts or whatever, because there's no

250
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way to undo it. Right, So, like my point would

251
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be just relying on the downstream thing, like you know,

252
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make sure that humans are not making and monetizing corporate

253
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and material. That's going to be my thing because that

254
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we can control. You can go to a store and

255
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you can take down you know whatever, if it's an

256
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exact coprate in fresher, that's going to be That's why.

257
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I But but to your point about the privacy, So

258
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this has been a big sticking point in the tech

259
00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:56.480
community because you know, there's data privacy protection laws in

260
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other countries that we don't have and I think Europe

261
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is probably the strongest. That the UK and you're in

262
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the EU have data privacy protections, and a lot of

263
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that data data privacy protections does relate to AI and

264
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especially like using material from children, right, like like children

265
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their data and their images and all that to I

266
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mean that a lot of that is protected, so it's

267
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not allowed to be used and input into this.

268
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And I think.

269
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A lot of the tech companies are like, well, that

270
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is inhibiting our ability because it's whatever and and but you.

271
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Know, the the.

272
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Their laws there, they also have stronger protections on what

273
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data is allowed to be used. And basically their argument

274
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is like, you know, we age gate tobacco, we age

275
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get alcohol, we age get all this. So we're not

276
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going to allow like children's data to be used for anything,

277
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for any of this stuff, and we're going to prohibit

278
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what's going to be allowed to be sold to them

279
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and their access to certain uh social media materials because

280
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we've deemed it to be dangerous.

281
00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:59.120
We're talking about danger versus copyright. First off, yeah, so

282
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you're you're giving two different examples. First off. Secondly, you know,

283
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I want to say right up front, I am not

284
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at all in favor of companies being able to utilize

285
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copywritten material as their own to generate revenue. That is

286
00:14:15.519 --> 00:14:18.720
not that, but that's the end user. That's the end result. Ye,

287
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and your example of Mickey smoking a cigarette, Yes, you

288
00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:25.159
can get an AI to do that. Or I could

289
00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:28.039
call up the fifteen people on my speed dial and say, hey,

290
00:14:28.039 --> 00:14:29.480
could you drive me a picture of Mickey mouse string

291
00:14:29.600 --> 00:14:32.480
is smoking a cigarette. Both of them are wrong. It's

292
00:14:32.600 --> 00:14:36.960
not the training. But I will tell you from my perspective,

293
00:14:37.399 --> 00:14:40.879
and I'm guessing here again not a lawyer, I'm guessing

294
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that the reason they're going after training versus end is

295
00:14:43.960 --> 00:14:47.120
because if they can stop it further upstream, if they

296
00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:52.159
can put the the the kibosh on it further upstream,

297
00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:55.559
they don't have to go after every single individual element

298
00:14:55.679 --> 00:15:01.360
that has been utilized illegally, illegally even by our current laws.

299
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If I put something out there that is copywritten, whether

300
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it was AI generated or not, then it's still illegal,

301
00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:12.840
but it's much easier to go after and more economical

302
00:15:13.120 --> 00:15:16.240
to go after the you can't use it to train.

303
00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:21.399
But just a quick point to add context. You are

304
00:15:21.399 --> 00:15:23.720
completely right, and just add context on that. There are

305
00:15:23.759 --> 00:15:26.320
some models that stop it at that point. Actually, so

306
00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:30.120
there are some models that when the user says, you know,

307
00:15:30.159 --> 00:15:32.519
give me Mickey smoke a cigarette, it will actually reply

308
00:15:32.639 --> 00:15:34.720
to you and be like, I can't do that because

309
00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:36.919
you know, this is a copyrighted material and I can't

310
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do that. And so I can give you a parody,

311
00:15:40.039 --> 00:15:41.639
or you can give me, I can give you something

312
00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:43.919
that is similar, you know, but able. Actually the model

313
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actually push back. And actually I experienced this when I

314
00:15:47.720 --> 00:15:50.480
was trying to make thumbnails for our show for Green

315
00:15:50.519 --> 00:15:53.320
Tag or I you know, when I'm like, give me,

316
00:15:53.519 --> 00:15:56.320
you know, the this is the show. It's about this

317
00:15:56.399 --> 00:15:59.600
thing with comcasts, and give me the comcast, you know,

318
00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:03.240
the comcast you know, Earth with whatever, and you know,

319
00:16:03.279 --> 00:16:04.919
and it will reply back, we can't do that because

320
00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:07.639
that's copyrighted image. But we can do a generic ball

321
00:16:07.720 --> 00:16:09.879
of the earth and then you you know, and do

322
00:16:10.039 --> 00:16:14.200
these things. So I think so there is precedent for

323
00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:17.720
like for its stopping the user from being able to

324
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generate a coprighting thing.

325
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So just that adding that context, and.

326
00:16:21.080 --> 00:16:22.639
I think and I think that's important, and I think

327
00:16:22.679 --> 00:16:26.240
that you know, if if there are certain AI generation

328
00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:29.720
programs that do that, kudos to them. I think that's great,

329
00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:32.000
but I just think it is the part. I think

330
00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:34.279
part of the reason that this is so slippery and

331
00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:38.840
such a quagmire is because the only thing, I mean,

332
00:16:38.919 --> 00:16:45.039
the only difference between being able to generate a mickey

333
00:16:45.080 --> 00:16:47.159
smoking a cigarette is speed.

334
00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:49.440
Yeah.

335
00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:53.279
You know, there are artists who have studied copywritten material

336
00:16:53.279 --> 00:16:56.759
their entire careers, and because of that, they can sit

337
00:16:56.840 --> 00:17:00.519
down and create it and create something that is copyright infringement.

338
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:05.160
With AI they can do exactly the same thing, only

339
00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:06.480
in a fraction of a second.

340
00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:09.759
Yeah, and anyone. It opens up the accessibility to a

341
00:17:09.799 --> 00:17:12.359
much wider audience. You don't have to hire the artist

342
00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:12.680
to do.

343
00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:15.240
It, which makes it really, really difficult for them to

344
00:17:15.319 --> 00:17:20.279
track down every single solitary infringement of said copyright.

345
00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:21.559
Yeah.

346
00:17:21.599 --> 00:17:25.240
So you know, I I know it sounded like Philip

347
00:17:25.279 --> 00:17:27.119
and I were arguing. Really not in the end result.

348
00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:29.720
The end result is we don't want copywritten material. As

349
00:17:29.759 --> 00:17:33.640
a writer, I don't want somebody to say, uh, generate

350
00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:37.680
a show in the style of Scott Swinson. You know

351
00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:39.519
nothing that we have a whole lot to go on.

352
00:17:39.559 --> 00:17:42.480
I don't know, I don't think, but you know, and

353
00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:45.480
take take money away from me. I don't want that

354
00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:47.759
to happen. I get that, But I think it is

355
00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:51.880
a very tricky topic because this is this is something

356
00:17:51.920 --> 00:17:56.119
you know. It kind of goes back to a session

357
00:17:56.200 --> 00:17:59.400
that that I attended somewhere where was I oh riad

358
00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:05.400
where they said, you know AI AI is here. AI

359
00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:08.000
is not going to replace artists. It's going to replace

360
00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:10.000
artists that aren't afraid, that are too afraid to use it.

361
00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:15.519
So I think that we have to think about this

362
00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:18.400
in shades of gray as opposed to its right or

363
00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:20.400
it's wrong. I think we have to look at this

364
00:18:20.599 --> 00:18:23.880
in how is this stuff being used? And again, mandating

365
00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:29.119
morality is really tricky. I understand that, but it's something

366
00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:31.240
that we're going to have to find out where where

367
00:18:31.240 --> 00:18:34.240
those boundaries are, where those guardrails are legally, where that

368
00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:37.960
all stands. But I think it is I think it

369
00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:42.480
is going to be difficult to prove that it is

370
00:18:42.920 --> 00:18:47.759
wrong to not train a brain, whether it is an

371
00:18:47.799 --> 00:18:50.759
AI brain or a human brain, by using copywritten material.

372
00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:53.240
I think that is where we're going to write into

373
00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:55.880
some trickiness. And if I were a lawyer and if

374
00:18:55.880 --> 00:18:58.440
I were trying to defend the AI companies. That's where

375
00:18:58.440 --> 00:18:59.839
I would go, and we need to find a way

376
00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:04.440
around that or to disprove that in some way, shape

377
00:19:04.519 --> 00:19:06.599
or form, or we're going to come up with situations where,

378
00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:11.079
for example, I do a lot of presentations at trade

379
00:19:11.079 --> 00:19:13.880
shows around the world. I would no longer be able

380
00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:17.039
to do case studies because in a case study we

381
00:19:17.119 --> 00:19:20.319
are using copywritten material to educate.

382
00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:28.440
Well, we have a few other stories still we got

383
00:19:28.480 --> 00:19:33.279
to get to or at least talk about in some fashion.

384
00:19:33.359 --> 00:19:35.799
They're all Disney related. We've tried to put this all together.

385
00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:37.559
So there was.

386
00:19:37.559 --> 00:19:41.880
A news announcement that came out from Disney this week.

387
00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:47.480
Of course, this ip you know lawsuit was in the mainstream,

388
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:51.720
but in our theme park world, they're Disney released out study.

389
00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:54.200
It says the highlight here is that the old Disney

390
00:19:54.200 --> 00:19:56.720
World and Disneyland theme parks are worth nearly sixty seven

391
00:19:56.759 --> 00:19:59.640
billion a year to the US economy and support more

392
00:19:59.680 --> 00:20:02.160
than for hundred thousand jobs a constant country, according to

393
00:20:02.200 --> 00:20:06.680
a newly released study. Several outlets picked this up and

394
00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:11.079
it's from what I heard, you know that Disney's done

395
00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:12.920
this before, and of course we had the themed index

396
00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:15.400
and blah blah, you know, but really what for the

397
00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:17.400
first time, they're trying to combine it and show like

398
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:20.640
a nationwide view, and then they also break it down

399
00:20:20.680 --> 00:20:25.319
according to the impact for the California and Orlando regions.

400
00:20:25.519 --> 00:20:28.279
And what I was trying to figure out is like why,

401
00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:32.000
I mean, like what I mean, I feel like everybody,

402
00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:35.400
for the most I think, yeah, I think most people

403
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:37.640
if you just ask them, like do you think Disney

404
00:20:37.720 --> 00:20:39.960
is a big employer that has big impact, I think

405
00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:43.759
most people would say yeah, probably, and especially the people

406
00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:47.400
in the communities, especially in in for Walt Disney World.

407
00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:51.000
I mean that's like, you know, everyone knows someone who's

408
00:20:51.079 --> 00:20:53.000
worked or has worked at Disney or.

409
00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:56.240
I mean, it's like it's a huge part. So I

410
00:20:57.960 --> 00:21:02.960
I'm not sure if like is this them trying to.

411
00:21:04.759 --> 00:21:08.599
Maybe store up political capital, you know, like where they're

412
00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:12.039
trying to like get this ready so they can go

413
00:21:12.079 --> 00:21:15.880
and have some sort of tool, you know, in the

414
00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:19.160
toolkit and in case there's a political backlash for something

415
00:21:19.359 --> 00:21:21.559
like or you know, DeSantis comes back and says we're

416
00:21:21.599 --> 00:21:24.480
trying to slow down this expansion or this or the whatever,

417
00:21:24.559 --> 00:21:26.799
and they can say, well, we can prove here that

418
00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:28.880
we impact I don't know.

419
00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:30.960
What do you think, Scott Well Between I think I

420
00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:32.880
think you're absolutely right when you think that this is

421
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:37.039
politically motivated. And again I don't know, I don't know

422
00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:42.160
they or not, but it appears as though that well,

423
00:21:42.200 --> 00:21:45.039
first off, in the United States, there are two key

424
00:21:45.319 --> 00:21:51.319
locations are in the crosshairs or in the they're in

425
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:53.440
the focus, let's put it this way, of the current administration.

426
00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:56.880
So whether it is whether it is dysantis here in

427
00:21:56.920 --> 00:22:01.240
Florida or whether it is keeping that laser focus on California,

428
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:04.720
because again it could be a huge threat to the

429
00:22:04.720 --> 00:22:07.799
current administration for the United States. I think Disney is

430
00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:11.359
just basically saying you probably don't want to mess with us,

431
00:22:11.359 --> 00:22:15.200
because we make a big impact financially, we are, we

432
00:22:15.240 --> 00:22:18.599
are as big a player as some of the you know,

433
00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:23.079
other billionaires or billionaire based companies that are that could

434
00:22:23.160 --> 00:22:27.519
potentially from a political standpoint, attack US. Yeah, and I

435
00:22:27.559 --> 00:22:29.960
think there, yes, it is a bit of a muscle flex,

436
00:22:30.559 --> 00:22:33.920
Absolutely a bit of a muscle flex. I also think

437
00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:38.480
that with the new Abu Dhabi announcement, they are also

438
00:22:39.319 --> 00:22:43.279
trying to probably to a certain extent, counteract some of

439
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:47.640
the negative responses in the US to to doing a

440
00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:50.400
park in Abu Dhabi, and we've had great deals of

441
00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:52.079
the discussion about that. We're not going to go into that,

442
00:22:52.119 --> 00:22:55.400
but I think they may be coming back to say

443
00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:58.599
a little bit of guys, we're really important here too,

444
00:22:59.119 --> 00:23:05.039
you know. And I also think and maybe it's I

445
00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:06.880
don't know, maybe it's just because I'm in Florida, but

446
00:23:06.960 --> 00:23:10.279
I also think it is a way to remind people that,

447
00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:14.359
you know, epic epic may be all of the headlines

448
00:23:14.440 --> 00:23:16.880
right now, but we're Disney. We're still here, we still

449
00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:20.880
have power, we're still viable, We're still making a great

450
00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:25.319
contribution because I will I will tell you you know, Orlando.

451
00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:31.000
Orlando was a nothing town prior to Disney. And it's

452
00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:33.599
not just the it's not just the revenue. It's the

453
00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:41.799
indirect revenue, the indirect profit that Disney generates between travel, hotels, restaurants,

454
00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:47.400
what what i'll call international drive attractions. You know, if

455
00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:52.039
it if it weren't for the big theme parks, so

456
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:55.880
much of that, so much of those jobs wouldn't be there.

457
00:23:56.519 --> 00:23:59.240
Yeah, they did actually break it down to your point.

458
00:23:59.319 --> 00:24:04.000
So forty point three billion for Florida is what they're

459
00:24:04.079 --> 00:24:09.960
is what they're claiming. And then they said Disney's operations

460
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:12.839
in Florida created or supported two hundred and sixty three

461
00:24:12.880 --> 00:24:16.519
thousand jobs, like two hundred and six that that's I mean,

462
00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:18.319
it's a lot of jobs in Florida.

463
00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:20.039
It's a lot of jobs in Florida. And I will,

464
00:24:20.079 --> 00:24:21.599
I will even go so far as to say they're

465
00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:25.720
not all in orlandoa Tampa has a call center. Tampa

466
00:24:25.799 --> 00:24:28.880
has a Disney call center. So and we're you know,

467
00:24:29.160 --> 00:24:31.319
anywhere from an hour and a half to four hours

468
00:24:31.319 --> 00:24:33.759
from Orlando, depending on what I four is doing. Uh,

469
00:24:34.039 --> 00:24:38.440
but you know, so, Yeah, it's I think it's partially

470
00:24:38.440 --> 00:24:41.599
a muscle flex. I think it's partially a reminder that,

471
00:24:41.759 --> 00:24:44.640
you know, we do contribute a great deal to the

472
00:24:44.720 --> 00:24:47.640
US economy. I think you're right, Philip. I think it

473
00:24:47.720 --> 00:24:53.240
is a potential political hedge hedge. Yeah, and it's I

474
00:24:53.240 --> 00:24:56.160
won't even call it a warning shot. I think it's

475
00:24:56.200 --> 00:24:58.039
I think it's if we're going to talk about let's

476
00:24:58.079 --> 00:25:00.960
let's say this this becomes a political war, or it's

477
00:25:01.240 --> 00:25:04.759
doing it's doing military exercises in a visible location that's

478
00:25:04.759 --> 00:25:07.039
like really remote kind of a thing. Yeah, it's kind

479
00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:09.640
of like saying, hey, guys, you know we still have

480
00:25:10.720 --> 00:25:14.680
and we still contribute to a great deal of the

481
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:20.480
US economy. Don't come for us because they're also I

482
00:25:20.519 --> 00:25:23.079
wouldn't be surprised if this was followed up with another

483
00:25:23.440 --> 00:25:27.200
report later that goes global and says here's where we

484
00:25:27.279 --> 00:25:30.279
are the rest of the world, so that if the

485
00:25:30.400 --> 00:25:33.359
United States for some reason wants to turn on Disney,

486
00:25:34.279 --> 00:25:37.440
then they can say, great, let's have the largest new

487
00:25:37.480 --> 00:25:42.119
condo community here in Orlando, and we'll pull out and

488
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:48.359
we'll go to Europe. Yeah, you know, it's it's it's

489
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:50.200
a flex. I mean, it appears to me as it's

490
00:25:50.200 --> 00:25:50.920
a muscle flex.

491
00:25:51.920 --> 00:25:58.720
The quote by Josh Tomorrow is is pretty I would say, yeah,

492
00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:01.519
it makes sense if you think about it as a flex,

493
00:26:01.559 --> 00:26:04.640
because his quote is very stern. I mean, he says

494
00:26:04.960 --> 00:26:09.400
in the release it says, Disney defines the theme entertainment

495
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:12.519
business in America, and our presence is felt across the country.

496
00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:15.720
Our destinations create economies far beyond the gates of our

497
00:26:15.759 --> 00:26:18.319
parks and we and when we invest in the groundbreaking

498
00:26:18.319 --> 00:26:21.640
experiences that only Disney can deliver, growth follows.

499
00:26:22.319 --> 00:26:23.799
That is like great back forward.

500
00:26:24.000 --> 00:26:28.240
Yeah, and also it's you know, Disney's usually pretty good

501
00:26:28.279 --> 00:26:32.200
about being a little bit more middle of the road,

502
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:35.400
you know, acknowledging universal blah blah blah, our partner of partners.

503
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:37.480
You know, they always use this kind of like where,

504
00:26:37.559 --> 00:26:39.920
but this is kind of like only Disney can deliver

505
00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:42.359
this and where we we define it.

506
00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:45.480
And I'm like, I mean, it's so.

507
00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:47.839
What I'm wondering is if there hasn't been either some

508
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:50.960
leakage that there is going to be some direct attack

509
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:55.160
on Disney, or whether there already has been but it

510
00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:59.279
just hasn't been made public yet. So Disney decided to

511
00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:01.599
get ahead of it. I don't know, I don't know,

512
00:27:01.720 --> 00:27:02.279
I believe that.

513
00:27:02.359 --> 00:27:06.519
Yeah, well, speaking of things that were not that are

514
00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:07.680
happening in the shadows.

515
00:27:08.039 --> 00:27:09.920
So there was a story.

516
00:27:09.640 --> 00:27:13.839
Too that came out around this time from Hollywood Reporter

517
00:27:13.960 --> 00:27:18.240
that basically is talking about how Hollywood's modern game of

518
00:27:18.279 --> 00:27:21.680
Thrones is that across all across the entertainment industry there

519
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:24.319
are pitched power struggles quietly being waged for the top

520
00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:27.759
gigs at CIA, Sony Lucasfilm on the course, Disney and

521
00:27:27.799 --> 00:27:32.359
of course, because you know, Eiger needs to find his replacement.

522
00:27:32.359 --> 00:27:34.200
And remember this whole how it worked last time.

523
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:36.559
A lot of people said that he chose, but then

524
00:27:36.599 --> 00:27:40.559
he sabotaged and his whole power struggle. And I guess

525
00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:45.000
there was a retreat recently with the Disney executives and

526
00:27:45.039 --> 00:27:47.359
there are some leaked comments from that retreat who are

527
00:27:47.359 --> 00:27:50.960
basically he is like, you have to be vicious in

528
00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:54.000
order to be able to be in this role effectively.

529
00:27:54.039 --> 00:27:57.200
Is what I gather from the leaked excerpts. Is him

530
00:27:57.200 --> 00:28:00.240
just talking about how you have to really have to

531
00:28:00.240 --> 00:28:03.799
be vicious about it. And so I don't think that

532
00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:07.160
this economic impact. I don't think it really ties into that.

533
00:28:07.200 --> 00:28:09.839
But I do think that there are clearly we don't

534
00:28:09.880 --> 00:28:12.640
have a successor yet, and his time is running out,

535
00:28:12.720 --> 00:28:18.000
and so we like kind of like, come on, yeah.

536
00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:19.680
Well, and if they are tied together in any way,

537
00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:23.000
I think it kind of reinforces what we're saying. Anyway,

538
00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:26.839
this is really probably the first time in Disney's history

539
00:28:27.400 --> 00:28:29.000
where there's really been opposition.

540
00:28:29.720 --> 00:28:32.200
You know, Yep, that's true, that's true.

541
00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:34.240
Yeah, So it's going to be somebody who's strong enough

542
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:35.880
to fight back against the opposition.

543
00:28:35.960 --> 00:28:37.279
Yeah, maybe that's what he was.

544
00:28:37.599 --> 00:28:39.720
It can't be the same, It can't be the same.

545
00:28:39.799 --> 00:28:43.599
You know, everybody loves us. We're gonna be good. And

546
00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:46.839
to be fair, there are people who have said Disney

547
00:28:46.839 --> 00:28:49.519
has always been cut through throat. There are people who

548
00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:51.240
have said, you know, you think it's the happiest place

549
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:54.799
on earth, that's only for the guests. Now, I also

550
00:28:54.839 --> 00:28:57.119
know many, many, many people who work for Disney who

551
00:28:57.119 --> 00:28:58.799
would say that is not at all the case. They

552
00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:02.599
love it, They drank, who laid, They thoroughly support their company,

553
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:03.960
and I think that's wonderful.

554
00:29:05.119 --> 00:29:07.400
I think both are true. As being a former cast member,

555
00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:08.359
I would say both are true.

556
00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:11.440
Yeah, yeah, but I think it's but I think it's

557
00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:15.799
important to recognize that these two could be conceivably tied

558
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:20.000
together because it's not the It's not that everybody's gonna

559
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:22.839
love Disney anymore. And that's the way it has been

560
00:29:23.039 --> 00:29:26.920
for years, especially the theme park. You know, once Disneyland opened,

561
00:29:27.359 --> 00:29:31.440
it became the place everybody wanted to go. And we

562
00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:33.200
were reminded, you know, when it first opened, we were

563
00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:35.839
reminded that every Saturday night when World of Color came

564
00:29:35.839 --> 00:29:37.799
on television. Those of you who are too young to

565
00:29:37.799 --> 00:29:39.920
remember that, you won't even know it. But but we

566
00:29:39.920 --> 00:29:41.880
were reminded over and over again. We were reminded every

567
00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:43.759
time we went to a Disney film, we were reminded

568
00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:46.119
every time we picked up a Disney coloring book that

569
00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:48.039
Disneyland was the place to go. And then while Disney

570
00:29:48.079 --> 00:29:51.240
World opened, which was like, oh, it's not just a

571
00:29:51.319 --> 00:29:55.640
land now, it's a world. And I remember, and I

572
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:58.440
remember that. I mean, I'm old enough that I remember that.

573
00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:03.240
But now there is pushback. So yeah, you gotta have somebody.

574
00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:06.119
You've got to have a successor who is strong enough,

575
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:12.000
smart enough and perhaps I don't want to use the

576
00:30:12.039 --> 00:30:17.079
term vicious, but willing, willing to scrap when necessary, and

577
00:30:17.119 --> 00:30:21.359
maybe that's maybe that's what they're saying. I again, I agree.

578
00:30:21.599 --> 00:30:24.000
I wasn't there. I wasn't there. Well, this has been

579
00:30:24.039 --> 00:30:26.759
our our, our Disney Hey, what are they doing right?

580
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:29.519
And what are they doing that we don't understand? And

581
00:30:30.640 --> 00:30:33.759
this entire show is generated by AI. No, that's not true,

582
00:30:33.920 --> 00:30:34.519
that's not true.

583
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:35.799
This is any imagine.

584
00:30:35.839 --> 00:30:40.160
This is really us and we're really out of time.

585
00:30:40.240 --> 00:30:43.039
We're really out of time. Once again, guys, thank you

586
00:30:43.079 --> 00:30:46.319
so very much for watching. Uh if you watching or listening,

587
00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:49.960
if you would like to join our Unhinged Team, please

588
00:30:50.000 --> 00:30:53.519
do so we get even spicier than we do here

589
00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:56.119
on the show. And uh so you can just you

590
00:30:56.119 --> 00:30:58.720
can just search us and you'll find us. And so,

591
00:30:58.799 --> 00:31:01.799
since we're out of time on behalf of Philip and myself,

592
00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:04.839
this is green tagged theme Park in thirty and we'll

593
00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:05.519
see you next week.
Scott Swenson, ICAE Profile Photo
Scott Swenson, ICAE

For over 30 years, Scott Swenson has been bringing stories to life as a writer, director, producer, and performer. His work in theme parks, consumer events, live theatre, and television has given him a broad spectrum of experiences. In 2014, after 21 years with SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment, Scott formed Scott Swenson Creative Development. Since then he has been providing impactful experiences for clients around the world. Whether he is installing shows on cruise ships or creating seasonal festivals for theme parks, writing educational presentations for zoos and museums or training the next generation of attractions professionals, Scott is always finding new ways to tell stories that engage, educate and entertain.

Philip Hernandez, ICAE Profile Photo
Philip Hernandez, ICAE

CEO of Gantom, Publisher of Haunted Attraction Network

Philip is a journalist reporting on the Haunted House Industry, Horror events, Theme Parks, and Halloween. He is also the CEO of Gantom Lighting and Founder / Publisher of the Haunted Attraction Network, the haunted attraction industry's most prominent news media source. He is based in Los Angeles.