SPECIAL: LIVE From The IAAPA Middle East Trade Summit in Riyadh

0:00 All right, So Philip and I are actually walking through a tour of the new six Flags Park in Kadea. It is gigantic. We would love to show you pictures, but we would be shot fired escorted out, which is fine. I you know, I totally understand that. But the most impactful thing to me is the fact that we are in a giant canyon. If you know, these great rock walls behind us. It is a looks like a very large park. It is very much under construction. I don't know, just very first impression. Since we're actually recording this as we walk through, what do you what do you think, Philip? What are your what is your top top three takeaways? I'm putting you on the spot.

0:40 Oh okay, yeah, top three takeaways? Okay, I think that for six Flags Park. I was shocked at how like robust the offerings are because we have you know, they have each land you know has like a has a sit down table, a restaurant, there's quick service restaurants. We also have dark rides in it. So like all the offerings are very robust, and the theming I think doesn't be my thing. Yeah, yeah, I. Was gonna say, I think the theming I think the theming is really amazing. The fact that they have a hy. Have basically a central hub and then multiple lands that come off from that central.

1:22 Hub, which I think is really. Really impactful and kind of unique for a Flags park. I realized Flags does do themed lands, but this seems far more. This is this is a step up, This is kind of this is kind of similar to what the what happened well, quite honestly, what happened even with with with SeaWorld and Yes Island. I think that they, you know, they. Stepped up their game, and it is very clear that that's happening here as well. The it's it's a construction zone. That's the thing that's most impactful to me is that it's got a ways to go. I think. But you know, standing we just came.

2:06 Around the corner and are now looking up at the new tallest, fastest st coaster. Yea and math it's huge. It's mad. It's like you're falling off a mountain. And I really do believe they're going to use the full queue for that. I think they're going to use a full que for that. But I think they're gonna use a full que for that, he said, they only have an indoor queue set for two hours. Yeah, and then I think talking about it, so it's an outdoor park, but they're planning to be opened later. And then also they have at least all the queue lines and the restaurant and the food. Anywhere people seem to be waiting seems to be covered, including the central hub, which I think is interesting. Central hub isn't a giant tent, so so we will see how well it does. But if they're operating hours start at four and go until one or two in the morning, that's certainly something that is not only cultural, because.

2:57 The people in this part of the world are. As one of our tour guides says, it's like it's like living with a bunch of owls because they're all night dwellers. But it's also because of the heat, so that makes total sense. But I just wanted to capture a moment of us with some of the ambient noise in the back of us actually walking through. We are one of the first major public groups to get a chance to do this, so thank you to Ayappa for making that happen. And so anyway, now you get a little little sense of what it's like which we can't take pictures, we'll at least we at least talked about it. So that's our our top reviews. We'll go into this in much greater depth in the show, but that's kind of our top thoughts and takeaways as we walk through six Flags in Kadia City.

3:37 Here in Saudi Arabia. So right now we're standing in Rioda City, which is sort of like a I don't know, how would you define Riod City, Boulevard City, Boulevard City, Sorry I say Riot City. Sorry, I'm I'm oblivious. We're in Riod at Boulevard City, what Philip said? Yeah, so how would you? How would you how would you describe Boulevard City in comparison to other areas. So we did Boulevard World and then we took the cable car over to Boulevard City, and I think that, like you said. Earlier, that Boulevard World is kind of. Like a mix between Epcot and Global Village. Village. Yeah, and so it's like more temporary starchis But I really like Boulevard City, and the more I hear about it, it's just the idea. It's like a city walk, you know, where they do have temporary buildings that change around, but they also have a lot of so they're able to bring in a lot of new things, like they had a Detective Conan thing that have bin insive Freddy's, and I was saying, I think that's more what Sin Parsne did incorporate actually, because it allows it to become like a public square, and then it allows them to be able to adjust according to what's happening, you know. I mean, d'cona is huge right now, like all these things are huge.

4:48 Like I think it's a. It's that kind of stuff I think would invigorate lights, you know, into some of our. Well and even Boulevard World, which is more like a theme park even there which and basically for those of you who've never been to Boulevard World, Boulevard World is a but they have different areas dedicated or representative of different parts of the world. And what's really interesting about that is even those are changeable, they change out, they're temporary, they last you know, three or four seasons or two to three seasons. Sometimes they have some basic rides, but yeah, it's all basic. Yeah, I think Boulevard World is the theme park, and then Boulevard city is the city Walk basically.

5:29 But Boulevard World. I was shocked. I know Scott's been here before, but I was shocked at the detail of the like quote unquote temporary infrastructure. I mean, like, honestly, I know, if if you go up and you inspect it, you know, we can tell that it's not permanent fiberglass, but like there's no way that guests are gonna know. And it looks gorgeous. And also each area is cinematic, right, there's like views, there's vistas. It's like they really thought about making sure that there's a picturesque moment in every land, you know, and so in that way, I think it's a perfect you know, we were saying it was like retail tayment on steroids, you know, because there's so much retail and food and then there's little performances, but you mainly just go to hang out and do those things and then take pictures.

6:11 Right. And one of the things that they brought up is, you know, they're trying to make certain that there is ease of access for even very large families, which is very common in this part of the world. So you know, if you have a low they basically have a low entry fee, and then have individual pricing for ticketing for each of the rides or attractions within the experience. So you can come and just hang out with your family and make it that that town square that we were talking about, or you can you can actually do everything, and it's it's and maybe you do everything on those special occasions, you know, so you're there regularly, but it's it's kind of like they've right sized, they've right sized their attractions industry to the attention span of their guests.

6:52 Yeah, you know it's open only open for six months out of the year. Well that's because of heat. Mainly, yes, And it's an evening element, so you kind like after work, I guess, and you stay until later one in the morning. So it's described to me as we were in Riodd's or living in a world of owls. Everybody's you know, everybody's attention span and and uh, the way they do things is all based on when it gets cool enough to come outside, which I think is really important. The other cool thing about the temporary nature of Boulevard World is they were saying that the basic structures are made of shipping containers and. Then there's scenic. That is, they do the basic you know. What's going to hold the building up or what's going to hold the facade up, and then they do all the the overlay is carved, carved and coded foam and sometimes it's coded in you know, sometimes it's coded in hard code.

7:42 Sometimes it's coated in concrete. But it's it's all very we'll call it what we would. What we would call uh, you know, sort of temporarily permanent, permanently temporary, so that they can change. It out as the as the whim or as the season desires. So it honestly reminds me a lot of the haunted house mentality it is. That's that's very that's very true, and especially the ones that are you know, the ongoing, ongoing haunts that want to change out something every season. Yes, yeah, exactly, that's exactly, and they change it out. And it's that whole idea where you know, you're open for six months and then it like encourages people to come in to see what's new, and then everything is is not the cost upfront isn't as bad, so you're able to make back the revenue. It was described to us as sustainable and I think that's an excellent way of framing it. It's like, how do we make it sustainable?

8:30 Because the metrics were eighty percent from the local city, from Riot and twenty percent from Sadi, So no one's coming here for this, like no one's coming from another country or from out even outside of Saudi. To see this, which means it has to be sustainable for the locals. And I think it is. Yeah, well, and it's the it's kind of the exact opposite business model that we experienced when we were touring six Flags and Aquarabia in Kadea. Kadea is going to be a global destination. It will be a reason to come to. This part of the world. Boulevard world is not, but I can see that it would definitely definitely kind of get a little halo effect when that starts to happen, because no one's gonna come to Riod to see that, but.

9:10 If they're here, it's really fun. Yeah, you know. The and the and the vibe is the vibe is such that you're gonna bring your family, You're gonna shop, you're gonna eat, You're gonna go see a couple of shows. You may do one or two rides or attractions and uh and that's you know, and then it's two o'clock and they close they close down the park. Ye. Yeah, I think that's a great way. I mean, I know that it's at least it seems to me like there's some competition going on between these two entities. In some way. But first of all, I think I understand the scale of Kadia City is all of Walt Disney World, So it's not. Like, well the scale the scale of Kadea City is all of Orlando. Yes, I mean, that's. That's that's what That's what I think our guests need to understand is Kadia City is not a theme park. Kadea City is a city.

9:51 It is literally they're building a city to be an entertainment destination. They're planning on five hundred thousand people living there in addition to their so there's gonna be home, so it's gonna be buildings and so they're it's not just them building everything. They're bringing in people to build other businesses and make it. You know, they eating the full city and they're extending the train We found out last night they are extending the train stop. So they're gonna be able to take the train directly from the airport to uh the Kadia City, which is going to be excellent for people flying in and it's just a whole man made construction. So like, I think there's no reason for that com for it to them to compete because one, the scale is no way they're going to. Compete, nor is the audience, nor is the audience. It doesn't.

10:33 I don't think there's a reason to because the thing is, you're never going to come into Riad for these boulevard areas, but you're gonna come to Riad for Kadia. And then hopefully what they can do is capture put up tour groups together and get buses to pick people up in Kadia and drive them over here. And that's what I would recommend, and I think we would do it. And I think and I think one of the things that's going to happen is in Kadia City they're going to have tours of Rhoda, you know, because people are going to want to see the city of Riod and they're going to want to come. Over here and experience what Riod has to offer. But I think that I think that Boulevard City and Boulevard World are targeting significantly more targeted to the locals, and I think Kadia City then will bring in people globally to make them aware of this exploding tourism industry in this part of the world.

11:14 Yeah, and it also makes sense to have the different contrasting views because Scott talked it last time about how six Flags they're trying to like make a succise fit in Saudi and in a way, I think, you know, Aqua Arabia is different because it is, but it's still like how do we make a water part fit here? And so it's you know, it's also different mindset in terms of like this is shaping around. The local culture is what this is, and that's like we're trying to fit a thing into the culture. Right, So they're there. I do think that from an even when a North Star standpoint, they're different approaches. Yeah, they're they're different business models and they should be and there's and there's room for both of them. So I think I think it's we're getting a nice unique.

11:54 Sort of dim sum approach of the different the different approaches that are happening in this industry. But I will tell you it is it's blowing up. So yeah, and I think in the short term though, I do think, I honestly do think in the short term that you're going to have an awkward period where six flags in Acaabia open and they're going to have less people than Boulevard City because Boulevard City is at its peak. It's already three years in. They hit thirty thousand people a day, is what we were hearing. And I don't think that you're going to hit thirty thousand at those places when they first open, because it's going to take a while because the subway stop isn't open yet. I mean, it's going to take a while for people to trickle into those areas well. And this is happening. This is happening in Abu Daw two. You have to hit critical mass before you can start with WB.

12:35 WB was like so busy, but SeaWorld was still less busy. Yep. So we're now standing in Boulevard City in Riyad, and we have just recently completed our our first session of education sessions here as part of the summit, and it was interesting because it was multiple speakers. They were back to back to back to back to back, and really, I mean, it was interesting to see the unique combination of people that they brought in, both from the region and from just outside the region. They brought in some. European points of view, but it was it was nice to see that sort of regional focus, which is exactly what it should be here. But you know, so Philip, what did you what did you think overall? I mean, just sort of thirty thousand feet what did you think of the of the content and its intent? I mean, because I'll share with you my I don't want to put you on the spot, so I'll share my mind. First, I thought that what we were listening to was things that there was nothing, nothing that was particularly revolutionary. For me, it was great reinforcement. And as I was sitting there, I'm thinking, well, gosh, no, we've we've progressed further than this.

13:47 But then I had this realization in this market, we have it. You know, this is all new for an industry that didn't exist two years ago here in Saudi and this information is very very important for them to hear, and to be fair, it's still viable for people outside this region to be reinforced upon. But I think that all the information was good. I don't know necessarily whether I felt that all the information was progressive, but it was progressive for this market. I think that's the only fair way I can say it, because I don't want to. I don't want to say that anything was bad or wrong. It wasn't, but it was nothing that I hadn't heard in some form or another before. I don't know, how did you feel about that?

14:34 That's a really good description. I think I agree with all of that. I think again, we talked about this a lot. I'm not sure who. This was for, because the people that took your sessions, you know that you taught before the started, and the people who had the full summit, you know, I don't think that we needed anything in that room except the very beginning, which I thought was great because the very beginning they gave us actual this is what people in the region want, this is what they're looking for, this is how many days. And then actually, when I heard those data points, suddenly so much made sense to me. And about talking about how they're looking for residences for you know, multiple food options, and for things that last whole days are multiple days and all these you know, like you hear the survey data they got from the Saudi region and then you're like, oh, and how young the population is and all this stuff, and you're like, oh, this makes sense. Like that we should have got maybe before the EDU tours, and that would have given us the context we needed to understand the venues we went to.

15:36 Yeah, that's a very good point. I mean, it helped define the north Star. I mean, just to go back to my old terminology, it helped define the north Star so we could understand a little bit more about what it was. I also, though, think that you know, even the the. Even Darryl's presentation, which was all basically about the. The importance of a really good guest service. Yeah, but I think all that was, like I said, nothing particularly. New, but it's solid. It was solid information, and it was solid information that the people in. That room, if they hadn't heard before, needed to hear. His presentation was, in my opinion, the best by far. Yes, I agree, Well, it's also the most polished. Me it was the most polished.

16:19 It was engaging, He used good storytelling techniques, absolutely told stories. He made it relevant, He got people moving their arms and energetic and engaged. It was by far the best twenty minutes. But I would say, though everything else just seemed like, you know, I like, it's that weird mix where it's like it's I'm not sure who it was supposed to before, whether it was I think Scott's point about it being maybe meant as like like this could have been an introduction to tourism and thing entertainment of course basically, but I. Think that's exactly what it was. I really do. I think it's also the fact. That was that what it was marketed to or what it was supposed to be, you know.

17:02 Well, but I mean, to be completely fair, neither of us are the market for this. Neither of us are the market for this summit. We are not necessarily you know, we're we're going to be ancillary parts of this, of this the industry in this area, but we're not the ones. We're not going to be the movers and shakers. Well, I also think, in a paradoxical way, I also think that some of the topics, like the hr umbrella, you know, like it's like it's like they kind of gave a really brief overview that almost you could read off of Wikipedia as like best practices. But the problem I thought was even though they were like basic principles like HR you should hire for attitude, not for skill, and all these things that you know I learned when I worked at Disney, But like you like, it's like each of these things could have been a module, and so there's no way they really realistically could have covered even the basics of training, Like they go up there and it's nice to just say you need to hire for this and not for this. Okay, tell me how to do that, but they never answered that. And so I think think the one that we just talked about, you know, the guest satistascian one, was the only one that connected the full circle and said, here's a practical story and a practical tip for each thing I'm gonna share to you but everyone else, And it was almost an impossible ask, right, how do you get someone to how do you summarize all of HR hiring practices in twenty minutes?

18:20 And also it's a panel discussion with three people. Well, but I've also gone back and yes, I agree with you. I do agree with you. And you know, those of you who have taken. Any sessions for seminars from me, you know that I always want to do theory and practice. I mean, that's always something that's very important to me. But I think in this format, to your point, I'm not sure that would have been possible in twenty minutes. When then miagureant would have been what's the north star for? But I think the north star for this is to whet your appetite because, like we've said, I think this is the beta test for Middle East Expo next year. But then why couldn't this have been an online class. Because it doesn't get people here. It doesn't give us the opportunity to do the edge of tours. It doesn't give us the opportunity to network and start to make those connections that were all saying, hey, well, I see you in Abu Dhabi next year.

19:06 I think the people that were on the education tours probably didn't need these sessions. It's what I would say, because the people at least that we've been on the groups with the education tours seemed a lot more experience. That's why they were on the education tours and they had separate tickets. Right. We met a lot of people there just the first time being here so well, and that may be, and that may be exactly who these were targeting. Is it not necessary, not really really for us, it's not really for the full but as I think every speaker said, all of their topics are only going to work if they are implemented from the top down. So leadership needed to hear this, to hear what their frontline people were hearing, or what their middle management was hearing, even though they already knew it. And just the optics of seeing you know, the owners of the parks and to seeing you know, the head of Europa Park and they head Yakub up there, and it was it was important for people to see them participating, so that it's not just here's information for you young startups, it's information that we all believe in.

20:03 Was there anything that you that we heard that I don't know? Is there anything that was not like you think at that introductoral level, I mean, besides the introduction where they gave proprietary research about the middle about the Thadi see. And I felt that was I felt even that was google able. I felt even that was something that you could find, you know online, But you know me, stats are stats are stats, their their tools to accomplish something much greater. But what about the keynote panel, You know, I mean, Jakab was up there. But I think even in that, I think that they were just kind of overviewing. Agreed, agreed, But I think that was the optics. I think that was I think that was what we were supposed to see is here's because this is again, this is an industry that did not exist two years ago, and they have to you can't what's what's the old line?

20:52 The biggest biggest enemy to education as expertise. So you have to be able to bring people in. You have to meet them where they are in order to elevate them to where they need to be. You know, I think if you viewed it from Matt Lens, then maybe that's what we were supposed to get from it. It's that we were supposed to get an understanding of where this market is. I think that's for us. I think that's why I think it's probably right. So I now have a better understanding, because I mean, to be fair, When I walked out, I looked at Philip and I said, I feel like I just went in a time machine about about fifteen years ten to fifteen years back, because it's stuff that we've you know, we've both heard and said at the same time, you know, let's let's get down off our high horse for a hot second and and say, yeah, but these people haven't had that experience.

21:39 Yeah, especially like the HR stuff where you're like, well, you should hire for attitude and you know you should you know, which. I will say is is very unique here. There's still they're still very focused on what does your CV say? And and this was that's revolutionary for some of the folks in this market. I think maybe that is the point, you know, where they're like all these things that we take for granted, we're like, hire for attitude, you know, you should be you know, you should keep what you like and Garrett, which I'm all these you know, practicing skills, talking to your staff, making sure that you take care of your staff, they'll take care of your guests. I mean, this has been saying that for decades. But I think that's the point, is that they're just introducing these now to this market because this market is young enough that they're just starting to actually make career paths. They didn't even have career paths. We did learn that.

22:21 We did learn they didn't have career paths or people. They didn't have anybody in the area, they knew anything about tourism, kids didn't want to work in the field. They had to send people off to UCF, to those fifty five college students to learn and then come back and write benchmarks. So it's kind of it is like a wayback machine. But maybe that's what we're supposed to take away, is where like they're just barely now understanding this. So when in turn, if Scott and I were to work with these people, we can't take for granted that they care about their employees or that, you know, we have to come with the almost like a beginner's mindset, right, And it. Was actually, in fairness, it was beneficial to me since I'm writing content right now for for the UH, for some training classes that I'll be doing here later.

23:03 I now have a better understanding. Of where the ducks are flying, you know, at what level they're at, and at what level I can start the training. Which is and they tried very strongly when I was putting together the concept on the RFP, they said, now, don't make it, don't make it too childish. This is for middle management. But now I understand now where middle management is. If this is, if this is the litmus test now. I'll be curious to see and we'll find out over the next day or so if those people in middle management felt that this was too. Remedial for them. Interesting to ask, that will be actually to ask the one thing I was gonna say to wrap up, I think my biggest takeaway from this is that is understanding where they are. But also for me, understanding I don't need a dealer here, you know, because they're not at the point where they would be using my product yet in this stuff.

23:53 They're not ready for it. They don't have the integrators, the talent like all of their lighting integration people, and all that stuff is going to come from somewhere else. I'm just gonna say, Yeah, it's gonna get it's gonna get specked out in a design done by somebody in another country. Yeah, because there's the talent's not here, the firms aren't here, nothing's here. And like I could, I should probably be in the in the UAE, and I should just know that the UAE is gonna be leading this area for a little bit and if they need talent, they're gonna get it from the UAE, and they're gonna bring it in here and it will develop here eventually, and they're probably gonna put offices in Ti Kadia City, I imagine. But that's not happening then well, and I. Would also say that it's when it I guess. I guess my takeaway from it is they are at this level, but they are going to that they are going to skyrocket past this level very very quickly. It's not going to take as long as it took in the US to adapt some of these ideas. And uh, because again they have they have deep pockets, they have strong interest, and they're they're pulling from some of the best of the best from around the world. So I think it's it's one of those we may not need it today, but be prepped because it could happen as early as tomorrow.

24:59 Yeah, I I think it will. That's with any technology and with anything like that. Just look at Halloween. You know, when it jumped across to Asia, it jumped across already and it's like commercial form and it already jumped across as like a festival. That's you know all that, and it took us what like decades to get to that model. And the same is true with all sorts of technology. That's why the infrastructure in a lot of newer areas, like the Dubai infrastructure is so much better than the American infrastructure because they learned from America. And I think that you're going to see that here. Their starting point is where we are now because we're here to help them and they're and they're hiring us to help them. So you know, there's there's that so that that kind of keeps things, keep things in keeps things in perspective. So I think that's I think that the the basically, I think what we're both saying is that the educational seminar so there was absolutely nothing wrong.

25:48 It was it was a good for those of us who have been through it in years. It was a good reinforcement. But it was also a really good reminder as to where the local market is when it comes to the attractions industry and how quickly they couldn't potentially grow if this is their if this is their baseline, you know, so we'll see, we'll see where it goes. And now the final education session is over, you're going off to go back to Boulevard World. I'm actually going back to the hotel and get ready to head back to Tampa. So in this last session, the I think they touched on some really important points. You know. Once again they talked about staffing and how staffing is an ongoing challenge really around the world, and how it's going to be even more so here in Saudi because.

26:33 Again, the the industry is relatively new. They it's well, I guess, I guess the biggest takeaways for me is that the Saudi culture is looking for things that will integrate and represent the Saudi culture. I mean, that's just kind of an overarching theme over and over and over again. They need to and they're they're utilizing their relationships with outside contractors, outside companies, people from people from different parts of the world, but it has to come back and resonate with the Saudis. And I think we heard that over and over and over again when it comes to park development, when it comes to training and basically taking what is inherently Saudi, which is the sense of welcoming and politeness and hospitality, and finding a way to make that leap from I'm being nice too, I'm doing good actions for you as a as a member of the attractions industry. That's the thing that just kind of it keeps coming back over and over and over again in many of these in many different ways. There was also a presentation that I saw that I think Philip unfortunately Philip missed, was on on AI and the importance of that and how that is going to be it's going to be a part. There's it's not even a question of how it's going to it is going to be a part. It's not if it's now, it's not when it is happening as we speak and continuing to grow.

27:59 And I found that the the most interesting takeaway I found from that was how how it's how it's already here and it's moving so quickly that the future is really hard. To predict because it's going to happen within the next year and a half, you know. So it's it's going to be that's going to be part of it. That's really going to be impactful. But but you actually liked the the globalization Versus Nationalization. Seminar. What what did you take away from that one? Yeah? Yeah, I liked that one. Fight. How many were there today? They are four? Yeah, the four total, the instress one and then the globalization was second. Then it was AI and then the last one was like a recap kind of end cap for it. Yeah, and what I liked about that one I thought, you know that there were some I thought it was very complicated, but I think if I were just still it down essentially what we've been talking about forever, which is immersion, which is tying back to following the story and understanding the context that the guests is walking through.

28:56 That's basically what it was. And what the thing I thought was most interesting though, was talking about the idea that it's a continuum and it doesn't have to be all American. It doesn't have to be all the local culture. It can be somewhere in the middle. And I like the idea of using Disney to illustrate that because we're we're all pretty familiar with it, so we understand, you know that Disney that main street, but then we understand that, you know, Shanghai, which is the newest one, didn't have a main street, right. I like that concept, and I think it's especially interesting with in the context of what Scott just said. If everything has to come back to the local Saudi culture, but they also want to attract in outside visitors, then it's a continuum and it's. Where on that line do we fall? How do we integrate the Saudi culture into something while it You know, so if we're again like the six Flags, we're going to bring six Flags into Saudi, how much of that is six Flags?

29:47 How much of it is Saudi culture? Where is the line? And the thing is, you know, it's continuum and there's a flighting scale. And I think the way that a lot of these facilities we've seen have chosen to do that is a land approach, and by dedicating certain lands and certain aspects one hundred percent to Saudi culture and then trying to kind of you know, have mixed zones. But even the mixed zones, as he was saying with his motion Gate example was you know, even with the How to Train Your Dragon and then going in and saying, well, the food doesn't match because well, they're trying to have. Saudi food here because Sadi people want satty food. And I think that's a good question that he brought up on stage, which is like, I mean, he didn't bring it up. I'm bringing it up for him, which is in situations like that, you have a themed land that really should have the food from that culture, but you know that this is for Saudi people and thought he wanted to be here in Saudi, like Saudi food, do you bring in outside food or do you keep it local?

30:43 Well, and it's funny because in what there's actually there was actually another session in there that we that I forgot to mention. No, and yeah, would I know, we're we're so polished. Well even checked my notes and I didn't know. But it was the session on how to take an event and make it sustainable, so like taking a uh well there was the fashion I meth the miss that, Yeah you missed that one, but it was taking it was basically she did a lovely job, but it was basically how do you take something like the opening of the Olympics, which can last three to four hours and make it something that is sustainable that people come back to month after month after month. And it was all pretty much the same thing. It was making the emotional connection.

31:24 But one of the things that she brought into it, and this is where it triggered that I forgot. Oh yeah, she was there, But the thing that I forgot was she mentioned the factor that you cannot ignore is it has to be economically sound. So if you have a situation if you have, well, it. Does have to be economically sound, because otherwise it's a hobby, not a career, you know, it's not a job. Last but that's my point about. The food though, if they're if in Dubai, because that's and I do not want for a moment to say that the Saudi culture and Dubai culture are the same. They are not. They are very very different and they cannot be lumped together. But and what I'm discovering is just in the people that I've met here, and I should explore this even more in the coming months, is even the culture between Rihod and Jedda are completely different, very very different. But ultimately they still have to sell food. Ultimately, they still have to to make their F and B numbers. And so if if salmon and Swedish meatballs aren't going to make as much as chicken fingers and burgers, then guess what they're gonna sell?

32:28 You know. Yeah, And well I think that's something I think universally we can all like identify with that type of thing, you know, your turkey, like example from lunch. I mean there's like you know, it's gotta just you know, doesn't matter if it's not spooky, it's you know, it's gonna work. But I think also that the big takeaway Scott started this off by explaining, you know, some of the large context of the situation, and I think overall, we're seeing a sector that is evolving so rapidly it's hard for me as an American to even comprehend. You know, where they had no cinema six only six years ago and now here where we are, and so they are going to go evolve very quickly. But right now, you know, it's still a little bit further. But I would say I got the impression from the morning session, the second session of the morning about the government funding projects, where it's kind of like they were saying, initially the government is going to invest in this, but we're going to we want other individuals to come in and the government's going to start taking a back seat. And I talked to some of the other attendees about that, and what I got was more a little more nuanced picture, which is essentially outside investment does not want to come in right now because it's not.

33:40 A business decision right now, it's not a proven commodity. Yeah, and because right now you're going to compete against the government when they have endless money, and you know, even the talent. Like I was talking to some firms who will not put offices here because the government will poach those people and offer them two or three times as much to the same job, and they just can't compete. So I think I think at some point the government's gonna have to, like, if the government wants outside people to come in and make it, they're going to need to pull back to allow competition to come in. And when competition comes in, it's the Scott's point. It's gonna be business decisions at that point. And they did talk about that premise where basically they're like, we are saying up projects where foreign investors and foreign companies can come in and participate in those projects.

34:20 But so like the government's like, we're gonna make. The sandbox, and you come and plan in our sandbox and we'll get out so that you can actually play well. And I mean there are a few exceptions to that. I mean, for example, Europa Park has already been brought in to start the whatever the theme park Training University, whatever it is, the talent training as have a couple of other big outside parks and what's also happening internally, and I know this because of my work here. They're also using some of the they're also funding some of the local holding companies, so the local businesses are making money off of the government as opposed to sending all that government money outside of the country.

35:03 So it is, it is. It is a land of great opportunity. But you know what, just like the wild wild West, there's a lot of confusion still. Things have not settled. And I think that goes back to what Philip was saying as far as outside companies not willing to come in and make major investments here yet because the dust hasn't settled. They don't know quite what it is yet. Yeah, and I would add to it too. I agree with all that. I just think I want to underscore that it's not not every decision here right now is being based pure laf of does that make. Money or not. You know, there's a lot there, and I think that's the problem is that we as a foreign entity would come in and be like, what's the business case? But it's like there are different rules here. The rules of the game are different here. You cannot look at it and We've said this to each other constantly. You cannot look at it from an American point of view. But I will say that even some of the folks who have been operating Boulevard City, which is where most of this has been taking place, and Boulevard World, have also said, when we were looking at some of the larger projects, how is this going to be sustainable? And so it needs to start thinking about this.

36:01 Morning. For example, we toured we toured a gigantic, beautiful, the world's largest indoor sports stadium in worse stadium as far as as far as seating capacity goes, but as Philip did some additional research, discovered that it wasn't really large enough to do to compete with the outdoor venues or some of the other So it's. It's a perfect example. So there's this enormous indoor stadium. It fits it. Initially eighteen thousand people. They expanded it to twenty seven thousand, so they would be the world record holder for the largest seated indoor stadium. So you have this giant stadium, and the thing they wanted to do was to have real grass, So it has real grass. You can play in all indoors.

36:42 It's crazy, But then you have to think about it in the larger context. That's still like half the size of Wimbledon and some of the other places. So it's actually not big enough to attract some of the largest sports events. And so what does that leave you with. It leaves you with like a really good concert venue, but you have grass, so where you actually in order to make it again sustainable, you're gonna have to maybe cover the grass or can't change that around. But that was like one of the original selling points is that was like a giant grass indoor thing. And so that's a great example of how they started initially to be like the biggest, the best of this thing, and then you're like, oh, well, maybe it isn't well positioned in this individual market.

37:22 I think the. Biggest challenge they're going to be facing is they have to find that balance between creating that great, big, exciting, sparkly thing, that big sparkly thing that's going to draw in attention from international guests, while still actually figuring out how do we right size for what we need And that's going to be the sustainable issue. So hopefully the big mega projects like Kadia City are going to are going to draw the attention and then they will then start to focus in on how do we maintain I mean, these are things that we've talked about with with Dubai and motion Gate and how you know, and the Bollywood Park which is now closed.

38:05 They didn't exactly think it through. They didn't actually go to the final product. They should have reversed, engineered a little bit more and thought what do the guests really need? What can we really sustain and build to that. That doesn't mean that you still can't create the biggest and best, but do it in a way that is sustainable, and that makes that is far more challenging to find that balance than to just say we're going to be the biggest and the best. You know what I'm saying, Yeah, I got some insight on that, and I think this will personalize everything for people here. You know, this is a lot of these venues also just for context too, the entire population here is not like Saudi, right. You have a lot of workforce people, you have a lot of that. All this stuff is built only for Saudi nationals. And that's another reason why that culture it's important and a lot of it I've been talking about and the honest answer I'm getting is because those workers and the other people here don't get paid enough to even afford to go, and so it's really built for just one portion of the population and for foreigners, right. And so then you look at something like Bollywood, not enough Indian people can afford to go to it, and the sid of people don't care enough about Indian culture.

39:09 To drive and go do that. And so that was one of those elements like, oh, it wasn't sustainable because there wasn't enough people in the market that could afford that. Because xyz, even though if you look at the pere numbers, how many Indians are here, Oh my god, there's so many of them. We need a whole thing. Well, but that's you a but yeah, yeah, that was the Yeah. Is that there? Yes, yes, But that's what I mean, like the context of it, Like it's the same for these two regions where you have these the working kind of working folks that don't make fine enough. But it's a huge population, and so who is it really for it for a subset of each population. Well, and that's also why instead of doing the high ticket price that includes everything, the model of doing an entry a low entry fee, and then individual helps reduce the barrier of who can experience it and who can't.

39:52 And it was explained to us the other day. You know, families here in Saudi are traditionally larger. So if you've got a family of eight and you have to pay one hundred dollars a day to come into a theme park, guess what you're Nope, they're not going. But if you can do it so that you've got a cheaper entry gate and then you can do uncertain days, do different things and add add on, it makes it far more palatable and reasonable for larger families. So and one more thing before we go, I think it's really important that we do point out that. This is that they have haunted houses here. They do have haunted houses here, Yes, yes they do.

40:34 But I think it's important also to recognize part of the reason this is I think even more of a crapshoot is sixty three percent of the population here is young, very very very young. So there's a lot of there's a. Lot eighty percent of them are looking to do some repeat immersive experiences. I thought, exactly exactly, So it you know, we can't we can't necessarily just look at the past data. We have to look at the current and future data. What do the kids want? I don't know, Scott, I've never known what the kids want anyway. Well, so we're wrapping up here in Riod. I strongly recommend, however, that if you'd like to hear us speak about this in a bit more, I don't know focused manner, because.

41:23 The focus is just going to be unfiltered. Well, I think unfiltered we'll probably be more focused than we are right now because I'm still tired. I don't know about you, but I'm still tired. But anyway, what we're gonna do and unfiltered is we're actually going to record that when we get back into the States and when we can actually kind of digest and deep dive into all the things that we touched. On while we were here. But I hope you've enjoyed our recap of the AYAPPA Middle East Summit here in Riod. And this is green Tag Feene Park in thirty and we will see you all next week