March 8, 2025

Six Flags & United Parks Earnings: Optimism or Trouble?

Six Flags reported a $206 million net loss for 2024—but investors are cautiously optimistic.

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Six Flags reported a $206 million net loss for 2024—but investors are cautiously optimistic. Meanwhile, United Parks is blaming hurricanes for its flat revenue and attendance, but is it really the weather, or is there a deeper issue? This week, we break down earnings reports from Six Flags and United Parks, analyzing the good, the bad, and the uncertain. Six Flags is growing attendance and spending, but merger costs, debt, and operating expenses are eating into profits. Meanwhile, United Parks is downplaying Epic Universe’s impact—but with no major IP announcements and vague growth plans, analysts aren’t convinced.

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From our studios this week in Houston and Los Angeles.

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This is Green Tag Theme Park and thirty and this

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week we're going to talk about the latest earnings reports

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from six Flags and United Parks, which I would say

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have me somewhat cautiously optimistic, which is probably for me

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a good thing.

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I was going to say, for you, No, for you,

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that's a stellar thing for you. Now I'm concerned because

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that could be, you know, like the seventh sign of

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the apocalypse, Philip.

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It's right, Or maybe I just had a stroke from

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this last weekend at Transworld. Who knows.

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That's true. That's possible too, That's possible.

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So we are. Scott and I just got back from

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this year's TRANSORLTS Halloween Attraction Show, which is the largest

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Halloween trade show in the world, and as well as.

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Talking about this and interactive interactive entertainment and it's I.

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Don't know if it's the largest Christmas show maybe no,

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but it's.

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Cool located, so it's a pretty big show.

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It's a pretty big show. So we're going to talk

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about that probably on the Unhinged episode, because we'll be

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this will be, this will be earning. So for those

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that have won.

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That if you if you've been watching the Internet at

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all and you're interested in Halloween at all, you've probably

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seen more posts than you could possibly stomach about the show,

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because like, I can't go through any of my social

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media without just post after post after post of all

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the stuff from the show. So we're gonna get unhinged

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about that and uh and talk about it in greater detail.

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But anyway, sorry I keep interrupting you. I haven't done that,

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So I'm literally.

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That will be on our Patreon. You can go to

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Patreon and just searched green tagged, or look at the

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link in our show notes for that Patreon link. So, okay,

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let's begin with six Flags. So the headline here that

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had the stock market initially tumbling on this news was

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that six Flags reported a two hundred and six million

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net loss in twenty twenty four after the merger, And

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of course, the big thing was supposed to be the

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merger was going to say money and make money, and

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they report a loss, so that caused the initial stock

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to fall. However, ultimately the stock did climb two percent

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because the CEO outlined the reasons why it happened and

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their plans and his expectation that they're going to have

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a two percent increase in attendance and a three percent

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rise in season pass sales, which now that they're a

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much bigger company, is a big deal. So that's the

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gist of it. That's the nutshell. We're going to dig

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into a little bit give you a little bit more context.

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But basically, I think if you just read the headlines,

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you might have been maybe misled by that. You know,

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it really isn't as bad I think as the headline suggest.

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So first of all, how is it performing. So overall

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attendance is up, and just to clarify, what we're doing

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here is looking at we're comparing the total numbers like

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merged with the numbers unmerged, and so basically we're trying

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to make this apples to apples, looking at what it

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was last year unmerged, and then what we're looking at

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this year with the merge numbers, and it's roughly a

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three percent increase over twenty twenty three. So basically, attendance

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is up, revenue is also up, and guest spending is steady,

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if not slightly up a little bit maybe two percent

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at some of the parks. So that's a pretty good

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picture where they have attendants up, they do have revenue up,

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so things are going in the right direction overall when

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you look at them, even after you kind of convert

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everything over into the thing. Because the merger member happened

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in July, and so essentially this the numbers we're seen

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are like basically jumping from like January through the end.

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It seems like there's a big jump because that's when

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they started reporting combined together. So it still did lose money.

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So why did it lose money?

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So I was just going to say, is how does

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this translate into the two hundred and six million loss

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for twenty ee Yeah, exactly as to Apples.

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That's a great question. And basically merger related costs. I know,

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Scott's like, it's almost like we had a script. So

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merger related costs or a big part of it. You know,

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they had legal fees, integration costs, et cetera. They did

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a big non cash UH tax charge that happened in

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Q four as well. They also had higher operating costs,

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you know initially and they did warn us about this,

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but of course initially it means labor, maintenance, operational costs,

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all that comes in, Uh, they did have the merger

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did add debt because they took on a debt which

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increased their interest payments for that. So all of those

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finan all of those financial costs, basically, like the financing

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costs is what really ate into their profit. And it's

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it's also bid to note there that like even though

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the Halloween events were strong, there was like higher cost

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that went out, you know for that kind of stuff.

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So you saw a lot of finances. So the initial reaction,

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as I said, was that it dipped but slightly ended

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up on a high note. However, there were some detractors

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out there, JP Morgan being the main one that pointed

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out that the fourth quarter IBITA was thirty percent lower

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than the Wall Street had actually anticipated. So kind of

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like basically it's mixed, right. So you have some people

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who are like, oh, you know, I buy into the

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future of that he's painting, and you have other analysts

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that are saying right, but essentially what the CEO is saying,

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which is saying about how you know, as soon as

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we control costs all blah, He's like, that's the best

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case scenario, Like, you know, the best case scenario is

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that you're able to entirely control for these costs and

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you're able to drive attendance and all that. And so

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the detractors here say that they missed their Wall Street

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anticipated EBITDA marker and that everything has to go perfectly

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basically for this vision to come true. But I guess

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the the hope one out in this because the stock

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ended up going up. So you know, as I mentioned

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some of the risk factors they're going to have, like

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essentially it is it is still a difficult path, right

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because despite the fact they're growing attendance, they still have

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to regrow it without loot without a writing their price

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and power too much, and he did they did hint

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to that later about really trying to bring in more

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people and increase their That might cause their their overall

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you know, price per guest to go down because they're

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going to have to be doing some discounts for people in.

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But that's tricky, right, you don't want to road your

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price and power too much, or it's going to have

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long term consequence, especially when you lay it out over

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forty parks, right, it's gonna They do now have a

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higher cost base because of course they've integrated all this

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stuff together and they are trying you know, again, this

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whole synergy is quote unquote synergyes thing. Right. They set

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one hundred and twenty million in savings, but so far

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they've only managed to bring out fifty So you know,

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how long until that comes across and can they balance

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all these different plates at the same time. So basically

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bottom line is like the company is making more money

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with increasing into spending, but it's also spending even more

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due to merger related costs. And then in twenty twenty five,

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remember that they're going to invest one point one billion

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or they're going to invest in I think eleven out

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of the fourteen parks or whatnot. So they're like investing

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as well, you know, in this coming season, and a

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lot also rests on Halloween. You know, they call that

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out specifically, saying our strong fourth quarter results reflecting outstanding

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October performance and the incredibly popularity of fall and Halloween

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themed events. So basically, if they can turn that revenue

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growth into actual profits once the merger settles and they

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really bring up those synergies and they don't erode their

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pricing too much, you know, with trying to get an

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additional guess, you know, and they roll out a good

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Halloween and and and and than they could be in

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a really good position, which is what he is painting.

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So that's where they are.

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And in fairness, I mean, let's let's kind of even

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break those down a little bit. When you've got the

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merger related costs. The merger related expenses, that's a one

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time thing. They knew that was coming. That's not a surprise,

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that's not any that does not reflect badly on any

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of the business decisions that they have made, because the

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merger itself they knew going into it had merger related expenses.

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So so there's that, and and that will that, like

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I said, one time thing. That's not a that's not

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a oh crap, look we we found more merger expenses. No,

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that's not going to happen. It's not gonna happen. So

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we have to keep sure make sure they don't say

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that in the next reporting of the of the finances.

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I think that you know, if they are we talk

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about the synergy, the synergy savings, Well, again, when you're

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talking about a company that is now this large, those

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synergy savings are not going to happen overnight.

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Yep.

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It's more like it's more like turning an aircraft carrier

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than turning a speedboat. It's gonna you're gonna need a

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little runway to do it. So it does not surprise

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me that those they have not reached their their synergy

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savings goals. And you know, it's it's been less than

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a year. So it's not really even fair to to

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expect that that you're gonna start seeing that. It shows.

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What it shows me is it's on track. You know

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it's not. It's not there, but it's it's heading in

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the right direction. So and I and I also you

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know it's they I can't tell you how many parks

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I have worked with or how many projects I have

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worked on where they say, well, Halloween is going to

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make or breakers. It's it's that's always the fallback. And

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it's partially because of when it happens in the year,

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and it's partially because they know most most organizations can't

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squeeze any more out of Christmas, so they always put

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it on Halloween and say because quite honestly, Halloween has

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less financial competition from a from a customer standpoint. People

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have you know when when when the Christmas season rolls around.

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There's Christmas travel, there's Christmas shopping, there's Christmas you know,

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all Christmas parties. There's all kinds of of of competition

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for the dollar at the Christmas season. And so they

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know it's more difficult to grow to grow income during

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the holiday, during the Christmas season or the holiday season

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than it is the Halloween season. And quite honestly, Flags,

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no matter how you feel about their Halloween product or

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even Cedar Fair, no matter how you feel about their

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Halloween product, whether you think it's the best things of

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slice bread or you think it's absolute garbage, it doesn't

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matter because it's been pretty successful. I mean, it's continued

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to make money, you know. So the fact that they're

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just saying, well, we've got to make sure that that continues, well, yeah,

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the chances of that are pretty slim that it's gonna

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just magically not make money anymore. What could hurt them?

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What could hurt them as if some and I hope

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this doesn't happen, but if some catastrophic experience or event

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happened that created either a lawsuit or a giant insurance claim,

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that could be detrimental. So I think they're putting that

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out there as just in case. So it sounds like,

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you know, since since we're all saying kind of the

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same thing, it sounds like the investors agree with us,

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and certainly those who know the industry are looking at

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it going, yeah, they're probably painting a pretty realistic picture.

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You know, it's positive, but it's but it's it's realistically positive.

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It's not right, you know, it's not out of the

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realm of possibility by any stretch of the imagination.

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I yeah, yes, I I agree with that it's not

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the own possibility. But I do like the angle that

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some of the analysts, you know, they're not industry folks,

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but I think they kind of are correct in that

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they're like the problem with this scenario that he's painting

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is that it's the best case scenario. And you know,

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you always say like it never goes according to plan,

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and you know, like in this there's nothing about there,

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like there's no room for failure, basically, like everything has

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to go right, Like, you know, they have to realize

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the full synergy. They have to make sure Halloween hits

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off well, they have to not lose have a dip

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in attendance, they have to not have a dip in

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too much of a dip in per cap spending as

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long as they increase in attendance. But if they don't

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increase attendance, they need to hire per caps. Like everything

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has to go right in order to get there, because

234
00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:51.840
even if they had the extra you know whatever, one

235
00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:54.559
hundred and million, that still would not make up for

236
00:12:54.600 --> 00:12:57.639
the loss. And so they do. They need everything to

237
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go right. And you know what about weather.

238
00:13:02.279 --> 00:13:04.840
You know, it's so in other words, it's exactly the

239
00:13:04.879 --> 00:13:07.840
same as every other earnings report we've talked about. No

240
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earnings report gives any wiggle room.

241
00:13:10.759 --> 00:13:14.080
Well, I think I do think the Disney one probably

242
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was the most positive where they did have the most

243
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room for wiggle, like room for wiggle, like they oh god,

244
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they like you know, Disney ultimately, like Disney streaming is

245
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kind of like mah, but you know it could it

246
00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:32.200
could still perform terribly or like you know, they're they

247
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could just have one box office hit or none or whatever.

248
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I mean, like they have sectors in which they could

249
00:13:36.919 --> 00:13:40.519
underperform and still be fine because there's so much margin

250
00:13:40.720 --> 00:13:46.159
in the in the parks product. And I don't think

251
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that is the case here because their six flags is

252
00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:51.799
less diversified, right, Yeah, they happen to say.

253
00:13:51.799 --> 00:13:53.159
I was gonna agree with you one hundred percent. I

254
00:13:53.159 --> 00:13:54.720
was just gonna make the same point. They have more

255
00:13:54.759 --> 00:13:57.360
wiggle room because they have a more diverse portfolio.

256
00:13:57.759 --> 00:14:00.159
Yep. That six Flags is kind of like all bad

257
00:14:00.519 --> 00:14:04.120
on this working and you know, if the economy softens

258
00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:07.559
and there's less in you know, people are attending attractions

259
00:14:07.639 --> 00:14:10.159
last or whatever. And in a weird way, this is

260
00:14:10.360 --> 00:14:12.639
a weird thing. I was thinking about this, Like, you know,

261
00:14:12.759 --> 00:14:16.679
Disney is really central centralized at least their parks divisions

262
00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:19.639
in a few markets, which we've talked about. But in

263
00:14:19.960 --> 00:14:22.879
one way six Flags is you know, they have so

264
00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:25.480
many locations that it kind of protects them against weather,

265
00:14:25.919 --> 00:14:28.200
you know, because like they have so many they're like okay,

266
00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:30.399
well if some are closed, others are open. But on

267
00:14:30.440 --> 00:14:34.840
the flip side, they almost have more exposure to all

268
00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:38.000
Americans and so like, you know, a lot of their

269
00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:40.440
parks are in more rural areas, and if those areas

270
00:14:40.440 --> 00:14:44.159
are hit harder with economic uncertainty, then they might you

271
00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:46.039
know what I mean. It's weird. It's this weird double

272
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edged sword, like they're protected against some things that Disney

273
00:14:48.960 --> 00:14:52.240
Universal are vulnerable to, but they're vulnerable to other options

274
00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:54.519
that you know, those places aren't as much.

275
00:14:55.799 --> 00:14:57.840
Was there any mention of the Kadia City Park.

276
00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:02.840
No? Interesting, Yeah, I did think that was and it

277
00:15:02.879 --> 00:15:05.080
might be because it's a I think it's only an

278
00:15:05.080 --> 00:15:09.320
operating agreement, right, like they just manage it. They don't,

279
00:15:10.039 --> 00:15:10.799
you know, they don't.

280
00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:14.519
Right, but you know I would I would think that

281
00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:18.799
since we're talking about the court of public opinion here,

282
00:15:19.759 --> 00:15:23.039
that they would have at least made some some reference

283
00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:29.159
to it in regards to, you know, reaching out, expanding,

284
00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:34.960
trying new things. But they didn't. So interesting. That's very interesting. Again.

285
00:15:35.039 --> 00:15:39.080
I think my point being in any earnings call, they

286
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:41.679
are going to point out the best case scenario.

287
00:15:41.960 --> 00:15:44.120
Well, that's their job, right, Their job is to argue.

288
00:15:44.799 --> 00:15:46.840
And I'm saying that's kind of what I'm saying. We're

289
00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:49.279
now comparing apples to apples. When it comes to comparing

290
00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:52.559
this earnings call to Disney's earnings called Universal's earnings call,

291
00:15:52.799 --> 00:15:56.159
they've all painted a very positive, rosy light where things

292
00:15:56.200 --> 00:15:58.360
have to things have to align in order for it

293
00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:00.919
to be perfect. You know, if there are five hurricanes

294
00:16:00.960 --> 00:16:04.919
in Florida, notck Wood. If there are five hurricanes in Florida,

295
00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:09.240
please God know, then who knows? Then? Who knows what

296
00:16:09.320 --> 00:16:12.240
Disney's park performance is going to be? Yep, exactly.

297
00:16:12.879 --> 00:16:16.440
Yeah. Yeah, it just seems like they're in a right now.

298
00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:20.879
They're in a less advantageous position on some things, just

299
00:16:20.919 --> 00:16:23.200
because they have again the pricing powers and the strongest

300
00:16:23.240 --> 00:16:26.240
Disney and so you know, they have margin effectively, but

301
00:16:26.840 --> 00:16:29.240
more parks. So you know, if they could centralize the

302
00:16:29.279 --> 00:16:34.279
synergy and get Halloween rolling out to areas that are underserved, yeah,

303
00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:36.879
you know, could be great. But we said that when

304
00:16:36.919 --> 00:16:39.679
the emerger was initially announced, right, So I think I

305
00:16:39.720 --> 00:16:41.440
agree with you in terms of we're just kind of

306
00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:43.639
all this is normal, We're just waiting. I think that

307
00:16:43.759 --> 00:16:47.600
some analysts are just kind of trying to move too quickly.

308
00:16:47.679 --> 00:16:49.320
You know, they're looking at this and going, oh my god.

309
00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:51.279
It's like, well, it takes time, like you said, to

310
00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:54.600
actually integrate this. It's only been a few months, and

311
00:16:54.639 --> 00:16:56.519
in the theme park world, that's not a long time.

312
00:16:57.080 --> 00:17:01.559
No, not at all. Yeah, yeah, Okay, February in a

313
00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:05.400
theme park, so you know, yeah.

314
00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:08.160
So it is encouraged. The last thing I was gonna say,

315
00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:11.319
they mentioned too, is encouraging that their annual pass sales,

316
00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:13.960
like the new annual pass has Multiparks, is up like

317
00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:20.240
three percent, which is which that's encouraging. So, okay, United

318
00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:28.480
Parks much, I'm not nearly as optimistic about this one. Actually,

319
00:17:28.920 --> 00:17:34.279
I'm not sure you know this is this is tough. Okay.

320
00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:39.039
So basically United Parks reported declined in attendants and revenue

321
00:17:39.039 --> 00:17:42.799
in twenty twenty four, attributing the losses to the hurricanes Debbie,

322
00:17:42.839 --> 00:17:45.920
Milton and Helene, which collectively costs the company four hundred

323
00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:49.559
and thirty two thousand visitors. According to them, they planned

324
00:17:50.119 --> 00:17:54.000
to introduce new attractions in Orlando and Tampa, aiming to

325
00:17:54.039 --> 00:17:58.039
boost attendance ahead of epic. So let's give us, let's

326
00:17:58.039 --> 00:17:59.880
give you all the big pictures. So, first of all,

327
00:18:01.359 --> 00:18:04.119
the three main things the climbing performance, blaming the weather,

328
00:18:04.200 --> 00:18:08.400
and struggling to grow. So they're declining revenue. Revenue was flat,

329
00:18:08.480 --> 00:18:11.920
if not a tiny bit down. Net income dropped two

330
00:18:11.960 --> 00:18:16.079
point nine percent. Attendance was also flat, but the guests

331
00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:18.880
spent a little bit more which kept the profits from

332
00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:21.720
kind of dipping a little bit more. They blamed the weather,

333
00:18:22.119 --> 00:18:24.240
and this is according to them. They claim that the

334
00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:26.920
hurricanes cost like I said, four hundred and two thirty

335
00:18:26.960 --> 00:18:30.200
two thousand visitors in twenty twenty four, and they said

336
00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:32.599
attendants would have grown a two percent otherwise. But I

337
00:18:32.680 --> 00:18:36.319
just think that's ridiculous, Like you'd be like, like, well,

338
00:18:36.319 --> 00:18:37.880
we think this is how much it would have cost.

339
00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:40.000
But you know what if those hurricanes didn't happen, you know,

340
00:18:40.039 --> 00:18:42.319
which is just ridiculous because we know that more hurricanes

341
00:18:42.319 --> 00:18:45.400
are going to happen. But anyway, they aren't really losing

342
00:18:45.400 --> 00:18:48.880
customers yet, but they aren't gaining them basically, so and

343
00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:51.960
this is all again ahead of Epic opening, and so

344
00:18:53.240 --> 00:18:58.079
speaking of Epic, they were grilled about Epic, like grilled

345
00:18:58.400 --> 00:19:02.519
like like in every like Actually they were grilled a

346
00:19:02.519 --> 00:19:06.359
lot more than I think Disney was, and that which

347
00:19:06.400 --> 00:19:09.160
is weird, but which I think in each of its

348
00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:11.799
own case kind of says that people are not buying

349
00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:15.839
exactly what they're selling. But basically they're saying it's all

350
00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:19.079
good news. They're making the argument that not that that

351
00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:22.000
Scott and I made, not that you know, we're claiming

352
00:19:22.160 --> 00:19:24.640
this for them, but we're you know, we're making they're

353
00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:28.920
saying that they're kind of taking the rising tide argument

354
00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:31.279
and saying that it's just going to be better for everybody.

355
00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:35.839
And yes, the halo effect, yeah, the halo effect, yeah,

356
00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:39.359
he said. He said, we're aware that there's a new

357
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:43.359
park coming to Orlando next year, which is hilarious. We

358
00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:46.200
we welcome more people to town. I'm sure there's gonna

359
00:19:46.200 --> 00:19:48.400
be days when Epic is doing very well and it

360
00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:50.440
is crowded. We're going to feel that a little bit.

361
00:19:51.720 --> 00:19:54.319
But but we need to execute on our plans to

362
00:19:54.400 --> 00:19:57.880
drive more people to our parks. What plans, you might ask,

363
00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:02.680
which people did ask to which replied, not quite concepts

364
00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:07.599
of a plan, but pretty close. You know. They said

365
00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:12.640
that they have new IP partnerships and major new rides

366
00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:15.759
that are in the works, but no details whatsoever have

367
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:19.160
been announced about any of that. They also talked about

368
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:22.680
launching major new attractions tied to a recognizable brand in

369
00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:26.039
twenty twenty five, but you know, didn't really talk about anything.

370
00:20:28.119 --> 00:20:31.480
And in terms of their strategy, when asked about how

371
00:20:31.480 --> 00:20:37.039
they compare to Epic, he said, we are a differentiated

372
00:20:37.079 --> 00:20:39.839
product than a universal park. We are a better value,

373
00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:42.880
we have a good value proposition. Those among lots of

374
00:20:42.920 --> 00:20:47.119
other things, gives us confidence that we can continue to

375
00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:52.640
participate in the market grow and analysts were not really convinced.

376
00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:57.680
They don't see in this case. I think Scott and

377
00:20:57.680 --> 00:21:02.000
I agree, you know, about the halo effect for Disney,

378
00:21:02.279 --> 00:21:04.599
but I think for me, I don't agree with it

379
00:21:04.640 --> 00:21:08.839
with SeaWorld because I think that again, the pricing power

380
00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:12.000
the thing like if you're going to show up and

381
00:21:12.039 --> 00:21:15.039
you're going to add something to your vacation, I think

382
00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:17.400
you're gonna add Disney before you're going to add SeaWorld,

383
00:21:17.799 --> 00:21:20.000
and I think that they're their whole you know, quote

384
00:21:20.039 --> 00:21:23.799
unquote value proposition. I don't think that's really gonna tip

385
00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:27.599
the scale, you know, unless you're talking where they're going

386
00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:30.680
to discount their ticket to like fifteen dollars or something like.

387
00:21:30.720 --> 00:21:33.319
I don't think that you're gonna I think the difference

388
00:21:33.400 --> 00:21:35.119
between like those tickets, I don't think it is going

389
00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:37.400
to tip the scale for people when they could visit

390
00:21:37.519 --> 00:21:41.279
Disney World versus SeaWorld with their you know, spared days.

391
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:43.920
I just I don't I don't buy that that they're

392
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:51.200
that they're selling so essentially overall numbers not great, flat,

393
00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:55.640
if not flipping, they're downplaye the Epic Universe thing. The

394
00:21:55.720 --> 00:22:00.279
numbers are slipping. They're just saying we're different. But I

395
00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:03.920
don't know if that's enough. Scott, what do you think?

396
00:22:04.359 --> 00:22:09.599
Well, I think you know in fairness, because again I

397
00:22:09.640 --> 00:22:13.279
have I have history, I have history with this company.

398
00:22:13.519 --> 00:22:14.480
You have a lot of history.

399
00:22:14.759 --> 00:22:16.079
You know a lot of history of this company. And

400
00:22:16.119 --> 00:22:18.880
I've worked and I've worked independently, so I've worked on

401
00:22:18.920 --> 00:22:21.759
both sides, both as an internal and as an independent

402
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:27.079
contractor on the outside looking in, I think that you

403
00:22:27.079 --> 00:22:31.279
know they are They're in a unique position, it seems,

404
00:22:31.759 --> 00:22:34.400
and and I think there I think their call kind

405
00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:37.359
of reflects this, or their their earnings picture kind of

406
00:22:37.359 --> 00:22:41.880
reflects this. They keep saying that they are unique, which

407
00:22:41.960 --> 00:22:45.640
in fairness, they are. The parks are you I mean,

408
00:22:45.640 --> 00:22:48.319
they're you can what you can experience at Sea World

409
00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:50.839
is nothing like anything you can experience at any of

410
00:22:50.839 --> 00:22:54.599
the Disney parks. It's nothing like you can experience at

411
00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:59.920
anything at any of the the the Universal parks. It's

412
00:23:00.119 --> 00:23:01.599
it is different.

413
00:23:01.599 --> 00:23:04.559
Thin Animal Kingdom is the closest, but it doesn't have,

414
00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:07.000
you know, the aquarium, it doesn't have like a lot

415
00:23:07.039 --> 00:23:08.960
of the animals that doesn't you know, they have the

416
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:10.799
Safari Animal Kingdom, but they don't have.

417
00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:13.119
They don't they don't have the signature. They don't have

418
00:23:13.119 --> 00:23:15.759
the signature animals. They don't have the they don't have

419
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:19.359
the the killer whales, they don't have the penguins, they

420
00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:21.960
don't have the dolphins. Those are the that's the holy

421
00:23:22.000 --> 00:23:29.519
trinity of the SeaWorld's animal collection. So they're right, they

422
00:23:29.559 --> 00:23:33.039
are unique. What they have to do, in my opinion,

423
00:23:33.240 --> 00:23:35.519
is tap into that uniqueness and stop trying to be

424
00:23:35.559 --> 00:23:38.519
everybody else. I think that, you know, I have no

425
00:23:38.559 --> 00:23:41.240
idea what this new ip is going to be. I

426
00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:43.359
just did a quick search to see if I could

427
00:23:43.359 --> 00:23:47.039
find if anybody was speculating. There's not a lot of

428
00:23:47.079 --> 00:23:49.119
speculation is what it is. There's an awful lot of

429
00:23:49.119 --> 00:23:50.920
discussion about what it can't be because all the other

430
00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:56.559
parks have them already, so it will see I'm going

431
00:23:56.599 --> 00:23:58.880
to be minecraft. I mean they still have you know,

432
00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:01.759
they still it's still there's still a Sesame still a

433
00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:06.839
Sesame connection, as Sesame Street connection, there is still a

434
00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:09.559
there is still for the holiday season, for the Christmas season,

435
00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:14.000
there's still a Rudolph the Red Nose reindeer connection. But

436
00:24:15.279 --> 00:24:17.960
you know what other big ips are out there, and

437
00:24:20.039 --> 00:24:22.960
I have no idea. I'm curious to see what that is. So,

438
00:24:23.839 --> 00:24:25.920
you know, if they feel that IP is the way

439
00:24:25.960 --> 00:24:28.640
to go, I would even I would even venture to say,

440
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:31.720
if they are truly trying to be different, take the

441
00:24:31.720 --> 00:24:35.240
opposite approach. You know what, what isn't your competition doing?

442
00:24:36.079 --> 00:24:44.000
And both both Epic and Disney are leaning heavily into IP. Now,

443
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:47.920
I'm not saying that that going away from IP is

444
00:24:47.920 --> 00:24:50.559
is definitely going to work. But if you're saying we're different,

445
00:24:50.559 --> 00:24:54.359
we're different, we're unique, then be different unique, don't be

446
00:24:55.400 --> 00:25:02.799
a don't be a less than impression of Disney or Universal.

447
00:25:03.319 --> 00:25:03.519
Yeah.

448
00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:07.599
Yeah, so you know, dive into what makes the parks

449
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:11.039
unique and really embrace that. And I don't know whether

450
00:25:11.079 --> 00:25:12.720
I don't know what that is. I don't know whether

451
00:25:12.759 --> 00:25:15.640
that is I don't know whether that is the animal

452
00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:17.599
component of the Sea World Parks or the bush parks,

453
00:25:17.599 --> 00:25:20.640
because you know, Bush Gardens in Tampa still has a

454
00:25:20.839 --> 00:25:27.839
ton of animals, a ton of animals. Williamsburg has a

455
00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:33.839
bunch of historic charm to it, and San Antonio is

456
00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:38.559
just San Antonio is really the beast in the area.

457
00:25:40.319 --> 00:25:43.119
They They are a great park, and they run themselves

458
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:47.119
very smart. So, but what is it that's unique about

459
00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:51.480
the United Parks and Resorts brand. That's something that has

460
00:25:51.519 --> 00:25:56.640
to really be pushed forward, and they need to educate

461
00:25:56.680 --> 00:25:59.319
their guests and their potential guests as to what that

462
00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:02.400
uniqueness is and not just say we're different without saying

463
00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:05.720
how or why. That's so to me, it sounds more

464
00:26:05.799 --> 00:26:13.160
like a communications situation and tapping into what is exciting

465
00:26:13.519 --> 00:26:17.440
from a guest standpoint, you know, is let me put

466
00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:21.839
it this way, is SeaWorld going to pull people away

467
00:26:22.039 --> 00:26:26.119
from a second day at Epic Universe. No, it's not.

468
00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:29.759
But once again, looking at and we've talked about this

469
00:26:29.799 --> 00:26:33.680
several times, looking at international tourists. When they come to

470
00:26:33.720 --> 00:26:35.400
a place, they sit down and want to see everything

471
00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:38.960
there is to see there. And European tourists especially are

472
00:26:39.160 --> 00:26:44.319
very fond of animal experiences, and SeaWorld is really the

473
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:47.519
only game in town other than Animal Kingdom. But even then,

474
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:49.319
I don't think of Animal king I think of Animal

475
00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:53.880
Kingdom is as using animals as a thematic tool, not

476
00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:57.599
necessarily as a zoo or an a querum.

477
00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:01.440
You know, a lot of what you're saying It kind

478
00:27:01.440 --> 00:27:04.079
of reminds me of what we talked about when we

479
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:09.279
talked about we we did our episode on Sadi and

480
00:27:09.640 --> 00:27:12.799
the kind of the difference, you know, between Boulevard World

481
00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:15.839
and the strategy there and the strategy here, and how

482
00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:18.039
they were very clear at Boulevard World, like they were

483
00:27:18.039 --> 00:27:21.759
they're like now and I think about it, they're so

484
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:25.359
clear about their strategy. We're open for this, this is

485
00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:28.079
what we do. We're for the locals, we bring in

486
00:27:28.119 --> 00:27:29.839
pop culture, we bring in all this.

487
00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:34.119
But I mean, it's actually the the entity is actually

488
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:38.200
called Redd seasonal or seasonal re addit don't camera which

489
00:27:38.200 --> 00:27:42.519
it is, but they they basically say we're open here,

490
00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:45.559
we're closed here, we open here, we close here. During

491
00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:49.960
that time, we will have different I don't even know

492
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:53.160
whether I'll call them pop ups, but to a certain extent, yes,

493
00:27:53.240 --> 00:27:57.039
different pop ups that will will represent different ips, different brands.

494
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:00.920
We saw that when we were there and then we

495
00:28:01.000 --> 00:28:03.160
close and then we go away and save money.

496
00:28:03.200 --> 00:28:07.799
Yep. Well, and it's interesting because yeah, to your point, right,

497
00:28:07.880 --> 00:28:12.160
like what I'm not I think if I'm looking at

498
00:28:12.160 --> 00:28:15.039
the differences between the Six Flags one and this one,

499
00:28:15.319 --> 00:28:17.599
it's pretty clear, like six Flags has kind of a

500
00:28:17.640 --> 00:28:20.640
plan and there they are trying to sell you on

501
00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:22.880
that vision and people are mostly buying it, right, And

502
00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:25.039
they also have the numbers to back it up. They

503
00:28:25.079 --> 00:28:26.920
have the attendance growth, they have this and that. So

504
00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:29.759
even though they're like bleeding money, they're like, we have

505
00:28:29.799 --> 00:28:32.519
a plan. We're going to you know, bring all of

506
00:28:32.519 --> 00:28:34.400
this to all you know, they have all the parks,

507
00:28:34.400 --> 00:28:35.960
they have all these regional they have a lot of

508
00:28:35.960 --> 00:28:38.799
things that make them different right, and then, like you

509
00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:42.839
to your point with United, they're they're like concepts of

510
00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:44.640
a plan here in the corner. We're like, what's the plan?

511
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:47.640
They're like, well, we have and like what is it? Though?

512
00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:49.279
Tell us how you're going to get yours out of

513
00:28:49.319 --> 00:28:51.680
this whole. And on top of that, they don't have

514
00:28:52.079 --> 00:28:55.079
the numbers to back it up, right, Like they're flat

515
00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:58.880
or declining in their main metrics, And they also don't

516
00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:01.359
have a plan that they're communicating. Maybe they do have

517
00:29:01.400 --> 00:29:04.720
it and they're not telling us, but they're not differentiated.

518
00:29:04.960 --> 00:29:10.559
And you know, again, like you said, fighting an IP battle,

519
00:29:10.559 --> 00:29:13.480
they're not necessarily going to win that fight with people

520
00:29:13.519 --> 00:29:15.920
with the other brands, And then what are they going

521
00:29:16.000 --> 00:29:19.039
to fight six flags on roller coasters or like like,

522
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:21.200
you know, the only thing they have that nobody else

523
00:29:21.240 --> 00:29:25.799
can can win is the animals. And potentially they need

524
00:29:25.839 --> 00:29:28.079
to make a pivot like Boulevard did, where they're like,

525
00:29:28.119 --> 00:29:31.799
you know, we're going to do more seasonal local focus

526
00:29:32.039 --> 00:29:33.880
for that type of stuff and hone in on the

527
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:37.160
animals and do stuff with the animals, like like what

528
00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:40.119
you always say, you know, one roller coaster could pay

529
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:42.160
for so many festivals that they could do there if

530
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:44.160
they just didn't build a roller coaster, And is that

531
00:29:44.200 --> 00:29:47.200
coaster really going to win when compared to the other parks.

532
00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:49.119
And I think and I think they're trying to do

533
00:29:49.160 --> 00:29:50.519
some of that. I think they are trying to do

534
00:29:50.599 --> 00:29:52.799
as many festivals as possible. I mean, Marty grow is

535
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:55.000
going on right now. But I think they have to

536
00:29:55.079 --> 00:29:57.720
My when I use the term earlier lean in, I

537
00:29:57.759 --> 00:29:59.440
think they need to lean into what they know how

538
00:29:59.440 --> 00:30:01.759
to do and lean into what they do well. You know,

539
00:30:01.799 --> 00:30:03.559
there was a time where they were known as the

540
00:30:03.599 --> 00:30:08.200
festival parks. They were the ones who really did the festivals.

541
00:30:08.240 --> 00:30:09.960
You know, there was there was a time where hollow

542
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:14.839
Screen in Tampa was considered by many in the industry

543
00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:19.599
to actually be outperforming from a customer experience standpoint outperforming

544
00:30:19.720 --> 00:30:25.079
Universal Halloween Hornites. There were there, but now, like for example,

545
00:30:25.119 --> 00:30:29.200
there is a Mardi Gras situation going on that is

546
00:30:30.240 --> 00:30:33.920
not being in my opinion, not being leaned into and

547
00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:39.839
it's I'm concerned that it's over promising and under delivering.

548
00:30:40.359 --> 00:30:42.640
This is this is. This is a series of parks

549
00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:46.559
that is filled with a bunch of really smart, hardworking people.

550
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.279
It is a series of parks that have the potential

551
00:30:49.599 --> 00:30:53.119
to be a contender, but they just have to lean

552
00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:55.039
into what they do well and stop trying to be

553
00:30:55.079 --> 00:30:58.960
everybody else. I think that's the success that we're seeing

554
00:30:58.960 --> 00:31:03.160
with Universal pretty much across the board. They know what

555
00:31:03.200 --> 00:31:05.400
they do well and they don't try to do other stuff.

556
00:31:05.920 --> 00:31:08.599
So we'll see, we'll see how that all turns out.

557
00:31:08.759 --> 00:31:11.279
We'll also see what happens when we come back next

558
00:31:11.319 --> 00:31:13.359
week because we're at a time for this week, so

559
00:31:13.480 --> 00:31:15.759
on behalf of Philip Bernandez and myself Scott Swinson. This

560
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:18.359
is Green Tagged theme Park in thirty and thank you

561
00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:21.480
once again for watching or listening, and some of you

562
00:31:22.000 --> 00:31:26.279
we will see in our Patreon show. Green Tagged unhinged

563
00:31:26.480 --> 00:31:28.319
and the rest of you. We'll see all next week.

564
00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:29.640
Thanks
Scott Swenson, ICAE Profile Photo
Scott Swenson, ICAE

For over 30 years, Scott Swenson has been bringing stories to life as a writer, director, producer, and performer. His work in theme parks, consumer events, live theatre, and television has given him a broad spectrum of experiences. In 2014, after 21 years with SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment, Scott formed Scott Swenson Creative Development. Since then he has been providing impactful experiences for clients around the world. Whether he is installing shows on cruise ships or creating seasonal festivals for theme parks, writing educational presentations for zoos and museums or training the next generation of attractions professionals, Scott is always finding new ways to tell stories that engage, educate and entertain.

Philip Hernandez, ICAE Profile Photo
Philip Hernandez, ICAE

CEO of Gantom, Publisher of Haunted Attraction Network

Philip is a journalist reporting on the Haunted House Industry, Horror events, Theme Parks, and Halloween. He is also the CEO of Gantom Lighting and Founder / Publisher of the Haunted Attraction Network, the haunted attraction industry's most prominent news media source. He is based in Los Angeles.