Hotter Parks, Cooler Guests: How Asia’s Attractions Are Responding to Weather

0:00 From our studios in Los Angeles in Tampa. This is Green Tag Theme Park and thirty. I'm Philip and I'm joined as always by my co host Scott Swinson of Scott Swinson Crew Development. On Green Tag, we break down the week's top news and explain why it matters to professionals. And this week we're talking about whether and how theme parks globally are responding to it. That's right, and whether or not you think this is an important topic. We sure do. We don't want to rain on your parade. Oh my god, that wasn't even in the script. No, it's just and there's a good reason for it. There's a good reason it wasn't in the script. But anyway, yeah, this is I mean, obviously, this is a topic that Philip and I have talked about sort of on many occasions in regards to, you know, creature comfort and making certain that parks are prepared for weather because you know, whether is going to happen, and it's you know, ehether you like it or not, whether you like it or not, and you know this is going to be an entire show of weather puns, and we have to make sure that we don't duplicate them, because lightning never strikes twice in the same place, So we it's gonna be that kind of show.

1:05 Huh. But we've talked a lot about creature comfort, We've talked a lot about why companies should not just hide behind weather. You know, there was a time where that was always an excuse the quot quote unquote act of God. And you know what weather is going to be, what weather is going to be, and it's going to continue to get more unpredictable, so we might as well predict it. We might as well recognize the fact that there are going to be weather issues. There is going to be extreme heat, there are going to be extreme storms, and we just as an industry have to plan for it. And here are some examples. Yes, we're going to start in Japan, where we have a nice little round up that I'm going to link to in the show notes from reviewing all what the Japanese thene parks are doing. And first off, Tokyo to Ze Land is increasing the water flow on Space Mountain or talking not Space on Splash Mountain.

1:54 That would be really crazy. And I'm going to increase the water flow in Space Mountain, which currently has none, so that's kidding really simple. They're increasing the waterflow on Splash Mountain and they're hosting a summer parade with Misspray, so that's happening in Toko Disneyland. Universal is giving away salt candy, which that part I'm confused about, but they are. The part that makes more sense is they're extending their evening hours because we talked about this a lot also before, but especially Universal there in Japan is sensitive to time changes because of the metro line and needing to get make sure that the trains are running, so it's not like as easy of a thing, so this is actually a pretty big deal if they can get the hours later. But again they're moving their hours later, open later and to be able to give guess more time when it's cooler to be in the park.

2:47 And then at. Yomi U yomi Uri Land, which I always mispronounced the they uh so. Than I would have come, So that's that's a good thing. So they have a gondolas in their sky go land wheel like an observation wheel, and those gondolas are equipped with air conditioning, and they open in twenty twenty four, and they equipped them last year with air conditioning, and so they're kind of just making a campaign reminding people about that that you could go on the rides there. They even have air conditioning in them, which is great. And what wraps all this up is some numbers here that the article is talking about, where essentially, in summer last year, the theme parks saw three hundred thousand fewer guests than they expected according to their the trend lines.

3:30 And they all the parks believe that that's because of the heat wave that happened, and this summer is going to be even hotter by a few degrees, and so it's kind of like everybody's preemptively thinking about what we can do for this heat stuff. And actually I like all of these ideas because something's better than nothing. We'll always say that something's better than nothing, and I think actively making plans for them, especially the time. I love the idea of like just let's just open later. I mean, it's okay. Well, and you know to two points here. Number one, are these the total solution to everything? No, they're not. However, nothing is more motivational than minor success. So if you can have these little steps forward and you can see that this changes the guest perception of your park, or your guest surveys, or your attendance numbers, or your length of stay in the park, any of those things. Then it will encourage further development. It will encourage these things to keep the boulder rolling forward. Secondly, and this surprised me.

4:36 When I was in Juhai, I was I was warned, let's put it that way, because my room overlooked the pool complex, and I was warned that in China, they don't do their big pool splash bashes in the daytime. They don't do them in the afternoon. They do them at night because again it's cooler, it's more comfortable, and it it's really funny to walk through, you know, at at walk through the lobby at at at ten thirty at night and you see all these families with young children wearing their their bathing suits covered with the hotel bathrobes because it's it becomes a big sort of night splash party. So yeah, this is and we talked about this too with the six Flags a Kadia City. They're they're going to open They're not going to open until four pm during the summer, you know, unlike other Unlike other parks, in the area which just simply close during the summer. They're the what I'll call a reverse seasonal park from what we're used to here in the US.

5:37 So yeah, and none of these are I agree with you, Philip. I think they're all great ideas, but none of them are revolutionary. I mean, they're really simplistic, they're easily implementable. Yes, I realized that the train situation and the mass transit situation is a little bit different, a little bit more challenging, but still adjusting your park hours. There's very little capital investment there. You know. Yes it takes time, and yes it takes coordination, but it's something that can be done almost immediately, and you just have to retrain your audiences and quite honestly, once they discover oh you mean, I don't have to be outdoors at one o'clock in the afternoon or three o'clock in the afternoon when you can actually fry eggs on the concrete, you know. So yeah, these are I think these are all excellent ideas. I think there are things that I'm hoping that, you know, more and more American companies will start to look at as options and possibilities.

6:37 Even the salt candy, which is a little a little strange, I will admit, but but you know, and it's something they probably wouldn't do in the US for fear of litigation because you know, somebody's allergic to it, or it raises someone's blood pressure or whatever. But again, if they're trying to keep their guests hydrated or keep their electrolytes balanced, which is really what salt candy does, then great. You know, it's salt candy, I'm assuming is sort of like a solid form of gatorade. So you know, if they're doing that to show the customers, we want you here, we recognize that there are challenges in being here, and we want you to stay here long enough to buy a second meal. They probably aren't saying that, but they're thinking it.

7:20 I think all of these, all of these answers. I love the idea of taking like a the gondolas and air conditioning them. You know, why that wasn't done in the first place is a little unusual because I would imagine it costs more to retrofit than it would have to build it that way. But I think if they see the success of this, then the next time there's an opportunity to air condition some cabin or some ride that wouldn't traditionally have any sort of climate control. They'll go, let's just do this up front, and let's you know, let's pony up the extra dollars because we'll spend twice as much to retrofit it later. Yeah. I even like the. Sprain in during the parade type of the thing. I mean, that is something that we we've seen it. I've seen other parks in Asia especially it, and it's a great concept where it's just like a splash and play type of thing.

8:12 You know, you just well bring it up water. It's going around. Queeta Food did it. You know, quet A Food did it years and years ago. We did it bush Gardens at least to twelve thirteen years ago, where we would have what we call the Spritzer Squad, which you know, again not a huge investment potable water in a Hudson sprayer, and then some clever characters who will integra, integrate and and you know, engage with the guests who have been trained properly not to spray the water and inappropriate places and not to spray it on cameras or phones. Yep, exactly yeah, I mean that was always my you know thing with it. I guess you mentioned and that. Goes back to that fear of litigation. That goes back to that terror of oh, something's going to happen and you know, screw guests comfort. We just don't want to get sued.

8:57 Well, so I was going to ask you. You did mentioned the American Parks briefly, but like, why are things like this so difficult for the American Parks to implement? Is it the fear? I mean you're saying this, and I'm remembering even when I was at animex Bo, which was just recently, and even at my hotel, which was a nice hotel, I was like, do you have a like just an aspirin or a tilen all or whatever, because I got it was kind of hot. I mean it was even inside they conventioned center, even with all the ac when there's there's I think this year they saw almost four hundred thousand people, which is too much. That's too many, and it's just really hot from all the body heat. But they and they were like, no, it's a health issue.

9:43 We can't hand it out. And I'm like what I mean, Like I remember even back in the day, even like when I was younger, even in America, they could hand out those like travel packs that were like a single dose that was sealed, right, and now they can't. And like you said, the candy. I mean it's like it's like, is. It the litigation or what about the water spray or what about the the I mean, would it could any. Of these solutions work in the US? I mean, moving. Work, They'd all work in the US. But with. The fact of moving the park hours, I mean I assume that would be the easiest thing. Absolutely, absolutely, you know. I mean, let's face it, I think back to when when I was a kid, when Walt Disney, when well Disney World first opened. You know, they were open till midnight every night. Yep, they were open till midnight every single night.

10:36 So we still are here in California where and this is the irony of the situation, right, is that like we're still open to like ten on DCA and then midnight on on the other side. But it's actually much cooler here, I mean than it is in some of these other areas well. And these places close so early. Right, And the idea was, you know, we'd even it was it was just common practice. We'd get up because you know, at the time I was I was a child, I was a young child, and at the time, you know, I probably couldn't do a fourteen hour day in a park. So we'd get up, we'd go to the park, relative we'd have breakfast and go to the park, and then sometime after lunchtime we'd come back to the hotel, we'd swim in the pool, we'd cool off, and then we go back at night for the night parade and what we believed to be shorter lines. I don't know whether it really was or not, but so you know the fact that those things have been done, and there are I'm sure a million and one reasons, staffing probably being one of them, as to why they they were they were discontinued. Or it may also be the strong desire to have that second second gate, which is, you know, a reality and something that would certainly have to be factored into it if you were gonna if you're gonna change your park hours. I think that, you know, I think that the risk, whether it's risk of litigation, a risk of bad press, or whatever that risk is, we're so risk averse in the United States. And I'm not

12:08 saying that safety should be tossed out the window at all. What I am saying, however, is we are making decisions, or at least from my perspective, again, I'm not inside any parks anymore, but decisions. It appears as though decisions are being made that are based on here's a way we don't get into trouble, as opposed to here's what's best for the guest experience. And guest experience is the product of a theme park, so you have to you have to recognize that, you have to embrace that. And you know, one of my favorite safety guys that I worked with years and years ago at Bush, used to say, well, the safest way to run a theme park is not to open it. You will have absolutely zero you know, you'll have no heat exhaustion, you'll have no trip and falls, you'll have no injuries because the park simply isn't open.

12:58 So you have to find that balance. And I think that I think that from my perspective, and again maybe I'm wrong, but from my perspective, I feel as though American parks are a little bit out of balance in between between what is risky and what is in the best interest of the guest experience, So I think I think that's part of it, and I also think I also think that it's really hard to because because not only are we risk averse, we're also marketing marketing centric.

13:38 So it's really hard to come back and say, you know, come back and ride our new ride now with air conditioning. It's not sexy. You can't you can't make a marketing campaign out of it. And the vast majority of parks that I have worked with or worked for, I want to make certain that if they spend money, they need to be able to advertise that this is difference, or the guests need to be able to see that there is a difference. There needs to be some sort of immediate gratification from a guest standpoint, saying, oh, I see that you've added a new roller coaster. I mean this is this is why. This is why parks will continue to put in new roller coasters and spend very large amounts of money, but are hesitant to invest that same kind of money into into new shows because the shows are going to take place in the same theater if you're using the same assets, and from a guest standpoint, they're just afraid that that means, oh, this show will it just will be another show. It will be the show, it'll have different content, it'll be completely different, but it's not sexy enough to grab people in. However, if you say, you know, now we have the tallest inverted back launch, double helix coaster, whatever, whatever, whatever, which only really draws additional attendance for one, maybe two years, and the show would be a third to a tenth of what they'd spend on a coaster. So it's I think it's risk aversion,

15:09 and I think it's you can't you can't go out and create an ad campaign saying you know, now you won't pass out because of the heat. Yeah, yeah, it is interesting that that's that's kind of more what they're leading with in other countries. But to your point, maybe it wouldn't work as much in America, although you know, recently there was a whole campaign in Orlando about how about what activities families could do that were indoors. I mean, it was a whole campaign series that they were doing about indoor FECs and other indoor opportunities, So it holps it might be a bigger concern than people think for families. I think it's definitely a bigger concern. But I don't think I don't think American attractions, at least certainly not here in Florida. I don't think American attractions.

15:53 Have caught up. I don't you know. I think, as you say, in Japan and I saw it in China, the guest comfort is a big deal, and families will families will come back and say, uh, you know, I don't care what roller coaster you have. If if my babies are passing out because it's too hot, we're not coming. Yeah. So yeah, I wonder too, it's yeah, I wonder if they if it's if they haven't caught up or what the I wonder also if it could be part of the culture in a way, because you know, when when we were there touring in the Middle East, it's like we were told again again that the entire culture is around evening, and you're just like, it's almost like when you all do it together, then you can shift the entire thing to be later, because then you know, you're looking at sleep schedules and work schedules, and I mean it has a trickle effect, right, So that that could be also maybe part of it.

16:56 It's like there's noted agreed. I mean, you know, going to when I first when I first went to Saudi Arabia, they all said, yes, we are a country of owls are only we are only completely active at night, which makes total sense, I mean based on the climate, So it is it is a much easier sell there. But at the same time, you know, Vegas is twenty four hours. That's true. Well, and I was just about while I was even making that point, I was like, but then when you think about, you know, Mickey's not the scary Halloween party or any of these events, right Halloween, whr nights. I mean they're opening at six pm and they're going till two pm, right, and they're I mean, it's a whole thing.

17:38 So maybe it's all these things. More like maybe the incentive structure like isn't really set up yet because there's not enough pain maybe for it to happen, or like you're saying the parks aren't there. I think the parks recognize there's a problem. I think, but until there's enough pain, they're not going to change anything. They're gonna because then it's almost the opposite incentivized because if it's too hot, then they can say, we'll just buy a ticket to our event in the at night. Correct correct Or there are some people who still believe when it's hot, we sell more ice cream. So yeah, because just to I was looking this up also while we were talking. But you know, most of the most of the parks in the area. So you've got Universal Studios Florida and Epic Universe close at nine, Islands close ten at ten pm. Volcano Bay closes at seven, which is funny because it's like the opposite of the other what we were saying, where you do water stuff at night, but here they're like closing early. And then the Disney World Side and One Kingdom close at six thirty, Blizzard Beach closed at eight, Hollywood Studios at nine, Typhoon Lagoon at eight, Epcot at nine, and only it's only Magic Kingdom that's open till eleven. And right now sunset is eight thirty, which means most of these places are only getting thirty minutes of not direct sun. And even in even in usj they're open later and they have to deal with the metro thing and they're open later until nine thirty or ten on some nights.

19:10 Yeah, it's I think it's I think we've I think we've touched on a bunch of different reasons. And my guess is from if you were to go from park to park and and we're able to be a fly on the wall in their planning processes, you would hear all of these discussed and they'd be weighed differently depending on what park it is. You know that it's all eventually going to come down to money. So if it does eat into their their second gate, that's going to be a huge reason not to do it, if it means that they're going to have to, you know, retrain their audiences or find staff that's willing to work later, because that's another issue. You know, there are there's a lot of staff out there that want to work in the attractions industry but want to work Monday through Friday nine to five.

19:59 I agree. Well, let's shift a little bit. There's still some noise news to cover. This time. We'll talk about some water parks in Korea. And what I really like about this is I like about how, at the same time we're talking about how some of the ways of operating are kind of set in stone at some of these parks. You see some that are flexible, like the japan Swords you mentioned. But then I think the risk here, of course is that you know, competition doesn't stand still, right, The biggest flaw and strategy is assuming your opponent is going to just do nothing. So, like, I think it's interesting to hear what the water parks are doing and how the water parks are becoming more like theme parks, but they're cooler inherently, right, and they're bringing in these So what's going on in Korea here in the Korea water parks is a great article that we'll link to also in the show notes. But they're doubling down to provide experiences beyond aquatics. So Korea has been seeing particularly hot summer this year. Temperature has already hit eighty six degrees fahrenheit in May, and that means that actually the water parks opened early. So the first water park here, Caribbean Bay, launched a summer festival in June thirteenth, three weeks earlier than usual just due to the amount of heat. And what they did is they actually collaborated with One Piece, which we talked about One Piece when they came to FanFest here in Hollywood, so they collaborated with One Piece to host a summer festival.

21:22 It's going all the way through September, and from the entrance to the Pirate Ship, the restaurants renderal centers, there's the entire park has been transformed into the world of One Piece. The water cannons and guns are installed in the stage and they shoot water NonStop from this Pirate Ship thing. And of course they're bringing in popular K pop artists to perform at the venue. Another water park is hosting a twenty twenty five summer eedm Splash Pop every day from July twenty first through August twenty fourth. And Lotti water Park. We talked about Lotti World, but they're the water park next door. It opened a Pink Island, which is a sandy play zone in the outdoor area last month where guests can enjoy.

22:05 A shade and nice shaded area. But it's also like a selfie spot where they can take fairytale like photos and do all this stuff. But it's it's cool, right, So there's just some so many great examples. And there's one quote here from a operations manager at Phoenix Park that I love, and he says to survive in the competition, water parks must now reinvent themselves as vacation spots, offering different themes throughout the day. And I think, you know, I think we've seen I think we've seen that with some of the parks in the US, some of the water parks in the US. You know, I think that, uh, it's having a bunch of slides is not enough anymore.

22:48 It's not enough, right, you know. You have to have you have to have slides. You have to have a combination of you know, incorporating rides when you can, incorporating to a certain extent shows to incorporating up charge experiences like you know, standing wave machines and you know that that. Kind of thing. So to make it not just a you know, there was it used to be that when you'd go to a theme park that had a a water park affiliated with it, the water park was your was your half day. You know, there really wasn't. It wasn't designed to make it a destination. But I think Universal, you know, has has done that with Volcano Bay.

23:30 I think that. I think that, uh, you know, they just they just expanded expanded Yes water World on Yes Island and Abu Dhabi adding something something ridiculous like one hundred over one hundred new things to do. And remember Aqua Arabia will be on Arabia Arabia, which is gorgeous and it has everything. It has entertainment and actually now here saying this. When I was in Shanghai and Ayapa Asia, I had the chance to who get to know a group that was there from a water park in Brunei, and they were telling me about all the entertainment like they do stage shows, they have characters, they have IP and they're looking at trying to license IP like one piece to bring into their park in Brunei.

24:17 And you know, they kept saying, like the entertainment is critical. It's just it's critical to have the stages that have the entertainment and make sure everything is shaded. And like they were really it's the one thing too. The Lego Landshank High could have used a little bit more shade, which I think I've talked about, but a little bit it was a little hot, and they were kind of like a little critical even of that of being like, look like the guests have to be comfortable in the entire park and that's something we heard also with Aquaabia about like they're thinking about the entire park, even down to making sure that the how much they can pull heat even from the surfaces, in order to just cool down the entire environment. Yeah, I mean the fact that, without going into too much detail, the fact that the all of the surfaces in that park were specifically designed to dissipate or reflect.

25:08 Heat, yep. Without and I guess I'm down, you know, And I get it. I understand that we're dealing with a lot of in the theme park world that's not the water park, right. We are dealing with structures that are already built. There's just so much infrastructure that is already established. There's just a whole system that's set up, right, But thinking about why can't we use some of that material when we're doing new construction in order to dissipate the heat, because it's not like it's gonna hurt you in the winter. And there are new parks, there are new parks that are still being built without taking into consideration this technology that already exists, you know, and not taking into consideration just the basics of shade, you know. So yeah, I think that, you know, I love I love all of these examples. And it's funny because I've had preliminary conversations with two different water parks, both outside the US, looking to bring live entertainment. They want to make it so that people will come and spend the entire day. I mean, it's kind of the it's almost a a less boutique style approach to Discovery Cove in Orlando. You know, Discovery Cove.

26:19 You can spend a whole day there and have a lovely time, especially if you have a cabana. I mean, it's just a it's a wonderful place to be. You have these these engagements, these interactions. There's entertainment, there's food, there's it's not just how many times am I going to wait in line to go down a slide and I And it's more and more of these parks are kind of rethinking the way a theme park or a water park should be experienced. And I hesitate. This is a much bigger conversation, so I hesitate to bring too much of it into this particular show. But one of the things I want you guys to think about is when you look at your parks, ask yourself, is the traditional theme park model antiquated, Is it outdated? Have we passed it? And if you know, no one's gonna want to say yes, because that would mean, oh my god, that means we have to scrap everything and start from scratch.

27:16 Not necessarily, but I think the idea of you know, I need someplace that I can go and spend the whole day and wait in queue and do waiting Q and then do this ride, wait and que and do this ride, wait and que and do this righte. Water parks are working, at least from my experience, water parks are working to kind of break that model a bit more so that you go, you enjoy a paradise. Yes you can go on rides, Yes you can have those thrill moments, but they're creating an overall environment that's a paradise. So is there a way for theme parks to do that? And I'm not sure whether I have the answer to that or not, or even whether it's the right answer, But it's just one of those situations where we keep seeing, you know, we've reported on the financials of parks and they all whenever they're down, they always say, well it's weather.

28:10 So I guess, well, since we're having this discussion on whether I just want to pose the question because I have no answers for this at the moment. I just want to pose the question. Is it time to rethink what a theme park or an attraction experience is and so how can we do that so it's weather resistant? Yeah? I don't know. Yeah, I think. The last thing is exactly the last story I wanted to mention just because it's exactly related to what you're just saying. Is here we go again? Basically so that there's a there's a news some news stories and a report that is coming out. There's the UBS Amusement Parks Wait Time Monitor, which monitors wait times everywhere, and of course there's a lot of analysts actually use that as a way to figure out if parks are going to be on their target or not, and then figure out if they are going to be goodbye opportunities or not depending on their quarter. And of course they're saying that the six Flags locations, due to adverse weather, they're down negative twelve in May and negative twenty into June early July, and that that's going to lead to basically a missing of their Q two and how in order to meet their financial obligation or the financial plan they had talked about last time, they would have needed not like negative twenty, they would need like positive seventeen and positive thirteen. So it's pretty far off from what they're saying. Most people are still kind of bullish about it.

29:37 Mostly the antlysts are still bullish about this. So just because it again there's so much structural structural savings the outlined in the plan which we talked about. That they think that kind of and I also think that, you know, if you're going to utilize and I am not an expert in this, in this matrix, but if you're going to utilize weight time, there's a lot of things that play into waight time as well, you. Know, correct, Yeah, it's not a good matrix. Yeah. Plus, you don't know they could be spending more. You know that the in park spend could be higher, right, you're not You're only tracking just one metric and that could be they're ready more coasters or there. You know, there's so many reasons why the wait time doesn't could be dropping.

30:18 So it's a and if you talk to a guest, you know, this is this is why I say we have to kind of flip our perspective over because if you talk to a guest low waight, time is exactly what they want, that's exactly what they hope for. So, you know, to have a park, say well, we want our weight times to be about a certain level because that shows that we've got lots of people in the park, or it shows that you're really bad and only operating you know, one car as opposed to too right. It's the antiquated thinking that you're talking and. It's a it's a paradigm that needs to shift and shift quickly. Speaking of shifting, we're out of time, So thank you so much once again for joining us. Hopefully you and we were able to give you some thoughts that might help you cool off in the hot summer, hot summer months and enough. Okay, I'll stop on behalf of Philip Bernandez. My name is Scott Swinson. This is Green Tag Theme Park in thirty and we will see you all again next week