June 8, 2025

Five TRENDS You Can’t Ignore: Mergers, Velvet Ropes, and the Rise of Festival-First Parks

In this special, we examine the last 18 months of news to surface the largest trends in the theme park world.

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TrendsStrategy

Six Flags and Cedar Fair’s $8 billion mash-up, Herschend’s shopping spree, and Falcon’s Beyond devouring Oceaneering are just the opening salvo in a consolidation wave now squeezing most regional parks into four corporate camps. But deal-making is only the first of five seismic shifts Philip and Scott unpack this week. They probe why per-guest spending keeps climbing even as attendance flattens, how velvet-rope up-charges like Disneyland’s $400 Premier Pass and Six Flags’ $162-a-month Flash Pass are normalizing class tiers, and why every operator—from Universal’s Fan Fest Nights to SeaWorld’s Coasters After Dark—now treats shoulder-season festivals as its loyalty engine. The hosts also tackle staffing’s post-pandemic “cool-down” and ask whether AI-driven scheduling and on-site dorms finally solve the labor puzzle. Think you’ve already future-proofed your park? These five trends say otherwise. Listen to weekly BONUS episodes on our Patreon .

WEBVTT

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From our studios in Los Angeles and Tampa. This is

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Green Tag to Theme Park and thirty. I'm Philip. I'm

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joined as always by my co host Scott Swinston of

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Scott Swinson Creative Development. On Green Tag, we break down

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the week's top news from the theme park world and

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explain why it matters to professionals. This week, though we're

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gonna be talking about trends, we're looking at the last

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eighteen months of what we have talked about on this

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show and trying to break up the top five ish

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trends that are critical for the industry. Here we are, Scott,

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we're recording this early.

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I was just gonna say, do we want to explain

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why we are doing Yes, Yes, trends and not about

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the immediate news of the week.

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Yes, we're recording this early because I am at the

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Midwest Hunters Convention on a gig there. And so if

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we're going to talk about trends, but if there's some

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crazy news that has come out and you're wondering why

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we're not talking about it, that is why. And also

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if you're like, why is Philip and Scott look exactly

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like last week's uppisode, Well.

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It just changed my lighting. I changed lighting.

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It's we didn't even change clothes, and I have.

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Several shirts that look like this, but I'll be honest,

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this is the same one.

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Yes, we're going this early, It's okay. So basically what

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I did was I looked at the last eighteen months

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and I was trying to put them into big buckets,

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like what are the big things? What were we talking

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about last year at the beginning of last year, and

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then what are we talking about now and how has

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it changed and whatnot? And you know what, the biggest

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one we've talked about several weeks now, but it still

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continues to be a thing, which is at the acquisitions

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and merger because last year in twenty twenty four was

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when the six Flags one was first announced, right, and

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then it didn't It closed early twenty twenty five, so

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we've been talking about that. There's also the Hershein Family

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Entertainment acquisition, which we just talked about last episode of

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last week about that. So that those are two big ones,

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a merger and one's acquisition. But there's also the Falcons

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beyond Global that has required oceaneering. We talked about that

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a few episodes ago. And then I also put this

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and that sort of related. But it's like our WS

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Global is expanding, but they're also now entered into that

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exclusive partnership with Merlin to provide the entertainment for six

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flagship resorts, which is consolidation in a way as well,

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where they're consolidating in order to serve a large entertainment.

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So that's a big trend. And it seems also what

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we talked about with the pendulum concept we always talk about,

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which is that these things go back and forth where

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it was a bunch of breakups and now it's going

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back to basically vying to be one of the top

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three or four. You're vying for the third or fourth position,

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is what everybody is doing, it seems.

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Well, or even the first and second in some cases.

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But when it comes to consolidation, yes, it's absolutely the

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third and fourth. And you know it's interesting because I

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will make a prediction. I'm going to put on my

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hold on. Wait, I have a crystal ball here. Wait,

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looking into the crystal bawl. My crystal ball is solid black,

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by the way, because just because I'm look, I'm wicked

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and evil. I'm wicked and evil, but I'm going to

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look into my obsidian ball and I'm going to say

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that we have not seen the last consolidation announcement. I

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think this is a trend that's going to continue for

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a little while. And you're going to say, oh, my gosh, Scott,

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who could possibly consolidate more and who could buy whom

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and what merger could happen. But I think this is

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one of those situations where we're far enough out of

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the pandemic that people are starting to go, well, you

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know what, here we kind of had to go back

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during the pandemic and reevaluate everything we're doing in our company,

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and we could do that more efficiently if we had

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an economy of scale. And I think that's what has

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on a very simplistic way, you know. Mean, I always

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like to make things. I always like to dumb them

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down so I can understand them. So I think on

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the simplest possible terms, that is what has has inspired

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some of these mergers and acquisitions. You know, there are

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people who are who will argue that, no, it's just

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all about money, and I'm not going to deny that

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it is. It is about money. This is a business.

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This is not a hobby. So yeah, it's about money,

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and there's nothing wrong with that. What I am also

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going to say is the reason it's all happening now

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is because there's been enough time to kind of reevaluate

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and just like we've all done personally to reevaluate how

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much we work, how much we work from home, how

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much we work from an office, how much you know,

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what is our work life balance, blah blah blah blah

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blah blah blah, How can we make our lives simpler

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blah blah blah blah blah blah blah, all this post

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pandemic stuff that we've been anngst that we've been going through,

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and I think companies have been doing the same thing.

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I think that's why we're seeing things like all of

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these mergers and acquisitions. It's like, how can we do

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our how can we do what we do but do

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it more efficiently?

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Yep, yep.

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That's just kind of my my thirty thousand foot view

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on why trend is happening. And like I said, I

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would venture to say there's and I have no insider information,

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this is not insider trading. This I don't know, but

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I would venture to say that it ain't over yet,

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and it's probably gonna happen on a smaller scale because

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we've already seen you know, the the six flag seater

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fairwe was the one that I did not expect. But

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I'm glad. I'm kind of glad. And you know, we'll

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we're gonna talk a little bit and Unhinged about a

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dig a little bit deeper into you know, whether this

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is a good move or not. But and the only reason,

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I will tell you, the only reason we're moving it

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to Unhinge. This is not a bait and switch to

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get you to join our Patreon. The only reason we're

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going to do it there is because we can be

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a little bit more. We can take the gloves off

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a little bit more, and we can shoot from the

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hip a little bit more. Uh So, it's it's it's

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not it's not to say, yeah, we're gonna talk about

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this here and then then when we get into the

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good stuff, you gotta pay for it. We're not I'm

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not saying that at all. What I'm saying is because

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because there is a another level and people will understand

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that we can be a bit more. Frank, That's that's

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the only reason that's the only reason.

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Well, we've talked so much about this past several weeks.

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I didn't want to spend too long on this one

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because it's like we've been doing nothing but talking about

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because it's the most immediate thing, you know.

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But well, and it's been it's been like boom, boom boom.

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They're kind of like, you know, six Flags and hershand

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and and Falcons.

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It's just been like, yeah, recently, it's all been very recent.

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So the next one, I'm going to kind of label

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this like loosely as increasing per cap slash like premium offerings.

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We've been talking about this the past yeah again, in

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the past eighteen months, it just seems like we're getting

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more and more of these examples. And we talked about

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the concept of budget, family friendly pricing and that kind

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of stuff that's come value pricing basically that has come

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come much more recently. But even with this value positioning

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that a lot of places they're taking, they're still not

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neglecting to flesh out their premium offerings. And we've Scott

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calls it the velvet rope concept. I mean, this has

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been going on for a long time, but I think

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more recently it's become a lot more developed. And you

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know some of the recent examples we talked about which

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I even forgot about, but remember the Disland Resort four

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hundred dollars premium pass. That's a thing that's still a thing,

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and it's it's a thing at both parks. I mean,

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the four hundred dollars of fast pass, you know, just that.

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Remember all it is is, it's just where you can

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use the fast pass. You get one fast passed per ride,

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and you can use it at any time for any

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of the rides. And it's a four hundred dollars on

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top of your ticket price, you know. And and then

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plus the Genie Plus and the Lightning Lane and the

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Priority Lane program they're rolling out all over and you know,

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Merlin talked about this when we were at Ayapa and

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then kind of talked about the idea of missing the

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pricing curve and they should adopt dynamic pricing and also

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and also have the premium more premium robust offerings. Six

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Flags mentioned it recently in their investor day thing where

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they deliberately have to renovate their F and B because

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they need to be able to have more premium offerings

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for that I mean concerts, other venue. I mean it's everywhere,

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It's everywhere. Basically, the idea is that especially in America,

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because we have this bifurcating, you know, we have the

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top you know nine, the top five percent controlling controlling

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a significant amount of wealth almost equaling what the bottom

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ninety five does. Then you have this bifurcation, so you

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kind of need to be able to have the premium

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experience but also still have you know, the budget items

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so well.

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And let's let's not forget you know, six Flags now

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that they are expanding. I just went to the six

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Flags Great America website and one of the add ons

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is the twenty twenty five National Ultimate All Season the

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Flash Pass add on, so you can basically, the flash

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Pass is an admission pass with all park passport to

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enjoy immediate access to the priority boarding lane on your

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on the most popular rides every time you visit of

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participating six Flags park across the country. So this is

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in essence, this is a fast pass for all six flagsparks.

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It is a fast pass for all six flagsparks. You

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want to guess, you want to guess what the monthly

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fee is for this add on to your season pass.

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Now you have to have a season pass to one

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of the.

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Parks to add you're adding this on.

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You're adding us onto a season pass.

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One one hundred and twenty five a month, extra.

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One hundred and sixty two one hundred and sixty two

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a month, and that gets you Lightning Lane pass at

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all parks. And it says let me there's there's a

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couple of asterisks here. It says for five months with

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an initial payment due today, plus applicable taxes and fees.

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So uh, and then it's just click product for full

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deal details. They're also doing add on. You can also

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do add on all day dining passes. You can do

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add on picture passes. And this is six Flags. This

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isn't Disney Kids, this is six Flags. So you can

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get your seasonal drink bottle. You can do that when

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you purchase your pass. So for thirty five dollars you

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can get an all seasoned souvenir bottle in you enjoy

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Coca Cola Fountain beverages and get free refills during the

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twenty twenty five season when you visit the park, only

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a fifteen minute interval between refills.

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There's I think The reason this is such an interesting

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trend is because when you look at I think a

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macro sense, we started off where I don't want to

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go back to back in the day, you know, I

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mean you have a Disney fad day, you know, where

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you didn't have fast passes. You just it was the

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concept of all the guests were kind of treated equal

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in a way. And now basically what we're doing is

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creating a class system within the attractions that we go into,

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where you there's always another level that you can buy into.

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You know, you got I think Disney is definitely the worst,

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but you know, you have even even like I have

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the top pass at Disneyland, right, and then beyond that

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you can do the plaid packages, right, and then beyond

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the plaid you can do the Club thirty three, which

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is I think thirty thousand a year or something. I mean,

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so like you can keep plusing until you get concierge

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like White Glove. And it's just this has been spreading

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to more and more and more attractions, and not just

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the theme parks, but also the individual smaller attractions, you know,

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and even in Asia where it's you know, it's I

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think it starts here in America and then it jumps

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over and I saw it even I think I was

233
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last Halloween. Remember when I talked about the package. I

234
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think one of the the parks that was like two

235
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thousand dollars for like a Halloween experience. I'm like, it's

236
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it's like, it's crazy. But I considered it and then

237
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I slapped myself.

238
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We've talked about it. I mean, you know, we experimented

239
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with it even you know, what was it fifteen years

240
00:12:02.480 --> 00:12:05.440
ago at at Bush Gardens. You know, we we were

241
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we were like what what we had it? We had

242
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a concept. It didn't fly. We never did it, but

243
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we had a concept. You'd be picked up in a

244
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hearse at your home. You would you know, be you.

245
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You'd lounge in the back of the hearse until you

246
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got to the to the park. You'd have you'd have

247
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a separate entrance. You wouldn't go through even the parking lot.

248
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You'd go into a back area entrance. It was yeah,

249
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we we went.

250
00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:30.039
Well, that's the thing in the in the the Middle East.

251
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You've worked at a lot of places where they do

252
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have those v VIP.

253
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Oh yeah, yeah, Well, I mean, you know, in the

254
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Middle East, in the Middle East does VIP really well

255
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because they have a royal family. So you know, when

256
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you when you fly, when you when you fly out

257
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of Abu Dhabi, for example, there's a separate airport for

258
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the royal family. It's you know, it's it's mind boggling.

259
00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:57.799
But but again, these kinds of velvet rope experiences. Everybody

260
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looked at Vegas and went, hey, if Vegas can do it,

261
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why can't we Yep, Well, the reason Vega's what Vegas

262
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did it is so that they could comp their their

263
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high rollers. But then they discovered people actually pay for this.

264
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You would pay for it. Yeah, I guess I think

265
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it also reflects not just the whole concept of classism,

266
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but it also reflects like the idea that like, you

267
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have people that can afford this now, whereas like I

268
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think in the past, you had just a more robust

269
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middle class, you had more equal kind of income systems

270
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right where people had they were their lives were closer, right,

271
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But now you have like so many people in America

272
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that I lose their healthcare account afford xyz. You know

273
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you have down here, so they're really like the budgets

274
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are really really, really really thin. Then you have you know,

275
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the largest growing demographic in America is millionaires, and so

276
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then you have billionaires. So you have this weird thing

277
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where you have very very very budget conscious people again

278
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back to the six flags investor day, eight dollars per

279
00:13:54.480 --> 00:13:57.840
hour type of value proposition they're proposing. But then you

280
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also have the millionaire class and above millionaires and above,

281
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So you're wondering, like, what do you provide if you're

282
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going to try and tap into that, what do you

283
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provide to them to encourage them to come to the park.

284
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And you're like, well, if you have a separate entrance

285
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and you have you don't have to interact with the

286
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peasants and you can do whatever you want, you know,

287
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I mean, that's that's but again it's that idea of

288
00:14:17.320 --> 00:14:22.000
the class effectively, you know, a class system in the parks,

289
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but also indicative of a larger economic trends.

290
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And I also think that in addition to the economic trends,

291
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because I agree with you one hundred percent, Philip, in

292
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addition to that, I think what is what has value

293
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to people has also shifted. I think that instead of

294
00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:40.159
we're going to sell you we made five of these

295
00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:43.639
diamond encrusted Disney castles. Instead of doing that, they want

296
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to sell you higher experiences. I think the more and

297
00:14:47.399 --> 00:14:52.000
more people are Disney's a strange anomaly because they you know,

298
00:14:52.039 --> 00:14:55.279
they sell popcorn buckets that go, you know, quadruple in

299
00:14:55.279 --> 00:14:56.519
price by the time you get home and put them

300
00:14:56.559 --> 00:15:02.120
up on eBay. But but, but, but I think people the

301
00:15:02.200 --> 00:15:06.000
experience of it is is really what they want to buy.

302
00:15:06.759 --> 00:15:10.480
And I think quite honestly, the popcorn bucket phenomenon that's

303
00:15:10.480 --> 00:15:13.480
going on with Disney, I think it's the experience of

304
00:15:13.639 --> 00:15:16.799
getting there, getting in line, waiting for it, being having

305
00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:18.639
that sense of am I going to get it? Am

306
00:15:18.639 --> 00:15:19.159
I going to get it?

307
00:15:19.200 --> 00:15:19.320
Oh?

308
00:15:19.320 --> 00:15:21.480
I got one? Yeah, I got one, I got two. Great,

309
00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:23.120
I can sell one and pay for this one and

310
00:15:23.159 --> 00:15:26.840
my part ticket. You know, it's there's that there is

311
00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:30.639
a an interactive quality to that, there is an experiential

312
00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:33.080
quality to that, and I and I think that that

313
00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:36.200
is what has really kind of put a shot in

314
00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:41.960
the arm for these for these various levels of increasing.

315
00:15:42.320 --> 00:15:43.639
The one thing I do want to talk about, just

316
00:15:43.679 --> 00:15:45.840
because we mentioned this before we started recording one of

317
00:15:45.840 --> 00:15:49.639
our shows, the term per cap. So the term per

318
00:15:49.679 --> 00:15:53.840
cap apparently means different things to different people. Yeah, and

319
00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:56.879
and and I mean basically, per cap obviously stands for

320
00:15:56.919 --> 00:16:00.240
per capita, and it's it's the amount you make per

321
00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:04.080
guest who comes to the park or attraction. I understand

322
00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:09.720
that completely. What's interesting to me is we often as operators,

323
00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:14.639
we're less concerned about the either the overall per cap

324
00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:20.080
or the ticketing per cap the gate admission per cap

325
00:16:20.759 --> 00:16:23.360
than we were the in park spend per cap. Now

326
00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:26.600
it makes total sense that if you're an investor or

327
00:16:26.679 --> 00:16:29.639
an owner, you're far more interested in the overall per cap.

328
00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:31.480
How much money are we making from each click of

329
00:16:31.519 --> 00:16:35.480
that turnstyle. I get that, But I just want to

330
00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:37.879
make sure that when we're talking about when we're talking

331
00:16:37.879 --> 00:16:39.799
about high end per cap, what we're really talking about

332
00:16:39.879 --> 00:16:42.600
or increasing per cap, we're increasing per cap by in

333
00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:48.039
park spend or by elevating the experience add on add

334
00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:51.320
on experiences. We're not increasing per cap by increasing the

335
00:16:51.399 --> 00:16:55.360
park entrance fee, which I think is a really important

336
00:16:55.399 --> 00:17:00.360
quality or a really important thing to talk about, because

337
00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:05.960
we don't it allows everybody to have the opportunity to

338
00:17:06.000 --> 00:17:08.880
experience your park correct experience in a different way.

339
00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:12.839
Well, yeah, that's a great segue into the next one. Here,

340
00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:16.640
the next big trend, which I've loosely labeled festivals to

341
00:17:16.759 --> 00:17:19.519
drive loyalty. It's kind of how I've kind of loosely

342
00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:22.920
labeled it, and I think it was on my mind

343
00:17:23.039 --> 00:17:25.960
directly because it was brought up so often in the

344
00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:28.960
six Flags call about there, and that's exactly what they're

345
00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:31.759
talking about. In the six Flags call was basically saying

346
00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:35.319
they really need to double down on attendance, but more

347
00:17:35.359 --> 00:17:42.960
specifically about taking the converting attendance to season pass and

348
00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:45.759
encouraging the season pass eble to return. And the way

349
00:17:45.799 --> 00:17:48.319
they would do that is through guest experience but also

350
00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:51.799
seasons of fun, which is their festival model, and they

351
00:17:51.799 --> 00:17:54.559
were talking about how that would that would in a

352
00:17:54.559 --> 00:17:57.960
way decrease per cap spending because they're you know, the

353
00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:00.839
investors and Wall Street look at at based off of

354
00:18:00.920 --> 00:18:02.839
just your gait, like how many clicks and then how

355
00:18:02.920 --> 00:18:05.480
much is ticket price because there again there's a more

356
00:18:05.480 --> 00:18:08.480
basic metric of measurement than I think we would look

357
00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:11.720
at as industry professionals, where it's total you know, total

358
00:18:11.720 --> 00:18:16.640
attendance and total get spend. But they basically the overarching

359
00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:20.599
thing here is the concept of increasing the festivals, which

360
00:18:20.720 --> 00:18:24.240
is interesting because again this is another one of those

361
00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:27.759
weird like I think massive macro pendulum back and forth,

362
00:18:28.279 --> 00:18:30.079
and we've talked about on the show. It's the concept

363
00:18:30.119 --> 00:18:32.599
of like, are you gonna put in a new roller

364
00:18:32.599 --> 00:18:35.759
coaster that takes time and effort and it's it's a

365
00:18:35.799 --> 00:18:38.319
longer lead time. And again they talked about this on

366
00:18:38.359 --> 00:18:42.519
Six Flags. They talked about how the expenses were growing

367
00:18:42.759 --> 00:18:45.119
so that where they would have done five, now they're

368
00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:48.480
only going to do four because that's the amount of expense,

369
00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:51.880
you know, inflation that's come into that. And so but

370
00:18:52.119 --> 00:18:54.519
overall we look at it where we're like, okay, it's

371
00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:56.519
kind of like you balance these two things. You balance

372
00:18:56.519 --> 00:18:59.839
putting in a new attraction with then balancing live and

373
00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:03.000
teament and festivals and shoulder fill in and that kind

374
00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:05.319
of thing. And it seems like now we've swung the

375
00:19:05.319 --> 00:19:07.400
other way where now we're back to putting in all

376
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:10.079
these festivals and all this stuff. And the labor the

377
00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:15.039
labor market has helped recently, the recent recent recent labor

378
00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:17.079
market I think has helped. But when you look at

379
00:19:17.079 --> 00:19:21.079
these festivals and this stuff, so the Disneyland shows the

380
00:19:21.079 --> 00:19:23.839
disneland seventieth you know, all that, all this stuff is

381
00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:27.880
part of that. But then you look at gosh like

382
00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:32.680
FanFest Nights, the Universal Hollywood butter Beer season, back to Hogwarts,

383
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:36.039
Halloween Horror Nights last year, Jollywood Knights coming back again

384
00:19:36.480 --> 00:19:40.599
for the second year, Mickey's Very Merry Christmas Party, Nicky's

385
00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:42.680
Not So Scary Halloween Party, which we didn't talk about

386
00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:45.160
on this show yet, but they've already sold out several

387
00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:47.599
nights for this year, and that's a massive party. A

388
00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:51.839
Gibboogie Bash is coming back, the Coasters after Dark thing,

389
00:19:51.839 --> 00:19:54.319
which we talked about last year, which we barely talked

390
00:19:54.519 --> 00:19:57.119
you know, all for out about that, the DC Universe

391
00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:00.920
of Light walked through, which is the Gaylord, the summer

392
00:20:01.000 --> 00:20:05.240
version of their ice, you know, experience the flavors of

393
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:09.720
the world at six Flags, Scream Break, you know, Dark

394
00:20:09.759 --> 00:20:14.119
Knights at Hershey Park. It's like, I mean it is,

395
00:20:15.480 --> 00:20:17.720
the festivals are just growing like massively. I think this

396
00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:22.119
is the overarching large strategy, right, is that as capital

397
00:20:22.160 --> 00:20:25.640
becomes harder to deploy for those long term investments, you

398
00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:29.319
need to shift to lower assets stuff, which is the

399
00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:32.759
seasonal overlays and is staffing becomes easier, that becomes easier

400
00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:35.359
to do because these are over really aligned on live entertainment,

401
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:38.160
and so then you get this explosion of all of

402
00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:39.880
these things and they're what they're trying to do then

403
00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:43.799
is drive repeat visitation, which increases per cap based off

404
00:20:43.799 --> 00:20:45.960
the total park spend. Right, really complicated.

405
00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:48.480
That was very cool, but again you explained it very well, Philip,

406
00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:50.720
Thank you very much. Thank you. I love the fact

407
00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:53.000
that you said it's a pendulum because there was a

408
00:20:53.039 --> 00:20:57.559
time where they felt that festivals were too risky because

409
00:20:57.920 --> 00:21:00.400
you had to invest so much time for it into

410
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:03.960
something that does not produce a hard asset, so.

411
00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:07.400
Crazy, and now we're like, how why would we?

412
00:21:07.519 --> 00:21:10.880
Why would we? Well, because again we've shifted from and

413
00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:13.400
who knows, we will probably shift back, but we've shifted

414
00:21:13.400 --> 00:21:17.559
from the mentality of we're buying something. It's the difference.

415
00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:19.839
It's a difference between buying a car and using an uber.

416
00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:23.680
You get to work the same way. It just depends

417
00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:25.640
on what you want to do. Do you want the

418
00:21:25.759 --> 00:21:28.680
pride of ownership, the convenience of knowing that your car

419
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:30.319
is always going to be sitting in your parking lot

420
00:21:30.359 --> 00:21:32.960
or in your parking lot or your garage do you?

421
00:21:33.000 --> 00:21:34.960
But do you also as a trade off, want to

422
00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:37.720
have all of the frustrations of making sure that you

423
00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:39.480
do your oil changes on time and if something goes

424
00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:40.799
wrong with the car, it's up to you to fix it.

425
00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:42.240
Or do you just want to pick up your phone

426
00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:46.240
put in a bit of information. Actually, if you're going

427
00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:49.079
to work, just hit work and Uber comes, picks you up,

428
00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:51.839
drops you off. Done. So it's do you want to

429
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:53.839
accomplish the goal or do you want to own something?

430
00:21:54.279 --> 00:21:59.559
And it's it's interesting because the pendulum has so swung back.

431
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:01.799
My running joke used to be back in the bush

432
00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:04.680
gardens days, I used to say, well, we could either

433
00:22:04.759 --> 00:22:08.039
do a brand new roller coaster which will amortize itself

434
00:22:08.519 --> 00:22:12.519
as far as a bumping in attendance for anywhere from

435
00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:17.160
three to on the outside five years, we'll see it'll

436
00:22:17.200 --> 00:22:20.599
you know, it'll have a bell, it'll have a sharp decline.

437
00:22:21.680 --> 00:22:25.480
Or we could do hollow scream for thirty years. Yeah,

438
00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:29.240
that's the that's the trade off. And I think finally

439
00:22:29.240 --> 00:22:32.359
people are starting to recognize that that these pop ups,

440
00:22:32.519 --> 00:22:35.960
you know, and I think also the consumer has changed.

441
00:22:36.319 --> 00:22:39.519
They don't want as much yes, there's still a place

442
00:22:39.599 --> 00:22:43.319
for the Haunted Mansion. In my heart, I want to

443
00:22:43.319 --> 00:22:45.880
go back and experience the Haunted Mansion because it is

444
00:22:46.119 --> 00:22:50.599
an icon at Disney. But most people want to know

445
00:22:51.519 --> 00:22:53.160
if I'm going to go to a park more than once,

446
00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:56.240
I got to have a reason. Yeah, Oh I really

447
00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:59.480
like this park. It's I like this park, but I'm

448
00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:02.519
going now because you know, we used to say at

449
00:23:02.559 --> 00:23:05.000
bush Gardens here in Tampa, people would say, oh, yeah,

450
00:23:05.119 --> 00:23:07.079
I love bush Gardens. When was the last time you

451
00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:09.799
were there? Gosh, I don't remember. So how do you

452
00:23:09.839 --> 00:23:11.640
know you love bush Gardens? And why have you've been? Well,

453
00:23:11.640 --> 00:23:12.599
it's always going to be there.

454
00:23:12.960 --> 00:23:13.160
Yeah.

455
00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:17.480
So to create these to create these festivals, these pop ups,

456
00:23:18.279 --> 00:23:21.359
these seasonal events, I will tell you right now, and

457
00:23:21.559 --> 00:23:23.119
I don't think I'm gonna get in trouble for sharing

458
00:23:23.119 --> 00:23:26.920
this information. One of the most requested topics for edge

459
00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:32.039
A sessions for Ayappa at at in Orlando. I don't

460
00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:34.000
know whether it's two in the other ones, but is

461
00:23:35.160 --> 00:23:41.039
seasonal festivals and Halloween specifically, simply because people want to

462
00:23:41.079 --> 00:23:43.759
know that. The people who haven't gotten on the bandwagon yet,

463
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:46.240
or even the people who have want to know either

464
00:23:46.480 --> 00:23:48.160
how can we do this or how can we do

465
00:23:48.200 --> 00:23:53.400
it better? Because again, you're basically doubling your gate if

466
00:23:53.440 --> 00:23:57.119
you're doing a second gate experience. You've heard me use

467
00:23:57.160 --> 00:24:00.839
the phrase way too many times that Halloween became thirteenth month.

468
00:24:01.480 --> 00:24:04.359
And those of you who are operators, you recognize that

469
00:24:04.559 --> 00:24:08.640
these kinds of seasonal festivals not only developed, not only

470
00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:13.359
not only give you significantly more revenue and profit, but

471
00:24:13.559 --> 00:24:18.480
also the real reason is it makes it so that

472
00:24:18.559 --> 00:24:21.039
you build brand loyalty. You get people to come back

473
00:24:21.079 --> 00:24:23.240
to your park multiple times per year. If you don't

474
00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:25.240
do seasonal festivals, people will come to your park once

475
00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:26.960
a year. Yep, and that's it.

476
00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:31.759
Yep, yep. And interesting. I keep going back to this

477
00:24:31.799 --> 00:24:34.440
because I spent so long reviewing the six Flags investment

478
00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:37.119
Day thing, but now they're all like stuck in my brain.

479
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:39.759
But I remember they actually did talk about the differences

480
00:24:39.799 --> 00:24:43.440
between these two on the call, and basically they said

481
00:24:43.519 --> 00:24:47.000
that opening a new coaster will only give a twenty

482
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:51.200
percent lift for roughly a year and then but then

483
00:24:51.200 --> 00:24:54.400
obviously the Scott's point, it's an asset. But basically they're like,

484
00:24:54.480 --> 00:24:58.240
you need a balance between the seasons of fun investment

485
00:24:58.559 --> 00:25:02.359
and the FMB investment and the major capital investment because

486
00:25:02.359 --> 00:25:04.200
they all kind of have to balance each other out.

487
00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:08.799
And I'm like, yes, exactly. Asset. Well, everything that's an

488
00:25:08.839 --> 00:25:13.920
asset is also a liability yep. So yeah, so speaking

489
00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:17.960
of maybe liabilities, I don't know. Staffing. That's a really

490
00:25:18.039 --> 00:25:22.880
weird transition, Philip, But shall we Yeah, So staffing is

491
00:25:23.160 --> 00:25:25.240
the next trend. And remember last year we were talking

492
00:25:25.279 --> 00:25:28.119
about how tight staffing is, and there's all sorts of drama.

493
00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:31.799
Last year, the j one visus came under scrutiny. Last year,

494
00:25:32.359 --> 00:25:35.160
there are sixteen states that loosened their team work rules.

495
00:25:35.400 --> 00:25:39.279
Thirty three percent of operators called staffing critical in iopa's

496
00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:42.920
research from last year in their twenty twenty four research.

497
00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:47.359
And then last holiday season, events nationwide suffered from staffing,

498
00:25:47.599 --> 00:25:50.759
especially during Halloween. If I remember back to like the

499
00:25:50.799 --> 00:25:53.799
Six Flags where they like couldn't open their heart houses

500
00:25:53.839 --> 00:25:57.119
and a bunch of locations up to weeks after the

501
00:25:57.240 --> 00:25:59.640
start date for that, I mean, it was it was nuts,

502
00:25:59.640 --> 00:26:02.400
Like all that was like bananas and all that. And

503
00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:05.680
then you know, then of course RWs coming in and

504
00:26:05.720 --> 00:26:10.240
taking over all of the all of the Merlin attractions

505
00:26:10.279 --> 00:26:13.480
to provide entertainment for them. I don't know. Again, still

506
00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:15.119
not sure why they think they can do it better

507
00:26:15.160 --> 00:26:18.200
than anyway. But all that is aside. But then then

508
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:21.359
we talked about the whole housing element and how people

509
00:26:21.400 --> 00:26:24.079
were trying to work housing into it. You know, Universal

510
00:26:24.200 --> 00:26:26.960
Orlando announcing a thousand units they were building at Disney,

511
00:26:27.319 --> 00:26:32.359
almost fifteen hundred units for workhouse complexes, Holiday World opening

512
00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:34.880
the Compass Commons dorms for seasonal hires. I mean, there

513
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:37.880
was a big thing. And then most recently we've heard

514
00:26:37.880 --> 00:26:41.200
a lot of chatter about AI solutions that basically can

515
00:26:41.640 --> 00:26:45.680
analyze and in real time move around your staffing so

516
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:48.599
they can just deploy people the cashier thing right where

517
00:26:48.839 --> 00:26:51.799
you know, this F and B area's not in high demand,

518
00:26:51.839 --> 00:26:54.799
so you can immediately deploy. And that's becoming, you know,

519
00:26:54.960 --> 00:26:59.440
much more of an industry wide thing, but also much

520
00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:02.039
more accurate. That's helping staffing. But so now what we're

521
00:27:02.039 --> 00:27:05.119
seeing is a staffing cool down right again, as the economy,

522
00:27:05.559 --> 00:27:08.319
you know, I'm not saying it's a very session I'm

523
00:27:08.359 --> 00:27:10.880
just saying the economy cooling and whatnot, and unemployment is

524
00:27:10.920 --> 00:27:14.759
ticking up. Then you're having those staffing pressures ease for parks,

525
00:27:14.799 --> 00:27:19.240
which is going to in theory, help seasonal staffing for

526
00:27:19.319 --> 00:27:23.640
this upcoming fall and Christmas break. And then you add

527
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:26.200
AI to that and hopefully it'll it'll make staffing a

528
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:29.440
lot easier, which again what we talked about earlier feeds

529
00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:33.599
into them being able to provide more season seasonal entertainment

530
00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:35.000
to drive repeat visitation.

531
00:27:35.519 --> 00:27:37.839
Well, and I think that you know, this is I

532
00:27:37.960 --> 00:27:40.319
still think and people are going to argue with me.

533
00:27:40.400 --> 00:27:43.000
I still think this is normalization. I still think this

534
00:27:43.079 --> 00:27:47.400
is post pandemic normalization. What's happened is people after during

535
00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:49.440
the pandemic realized, you know what, I don't want to work.

536
00:27:49.680 --> 00:27:51.200
I really just don't want to work. I don't want

537
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:53.640
to work, and I can survive without working as hard

538
00:27:53.680 --> 00:27:56.839
or without working as much. And that trend has shifted now.

539
00:27:57.160 --> 00:28:01.039
So everything's expensive, because everything's expensive, and all of a sudden,

540
00:28:01.160 --> 00:28:05.200
you can't just get by on on you know what,

541
00:28:05.240 --> 00:28:08.200
you what you make off of selling your your hand

542
00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:12.359
crocheted bracelets on eBay or Etsy. You have to actually

543
00:28:12.839 --> 00:28:15.119
now have a bit more income. And I think that

544
00:28:15.119 --> 00:28:18.160
that's why the staffing situation is coming back. And like

545
00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:22.240
I said, in my view, it's normalization. And everybody's gonna say,

546
00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:24.079
Scott's you got to stop blaming. You got to stop

547
00:28:24.079 --> 00:28:26.720
blaming the pandemic for everything. I said, I'm and the

548
00:28:26.720 --> 00:28:29.319
truth is, I'm not. I'm saying that we are finally

549
00:28:29.319 --> 00:28:31.200
coming back to it. I mean, the pandemic was in

550
00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:34.680
essence two years. I know people will argue that back

551
00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:37.519
and forth as well, but it basically impacted us for

552
00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:41.759
two years, and it's it takes time to come back

553
00:28:41.799 --> 00:28:44.559
from something like that. You know, you don't recover like

554
00:28:44.599 --> 00:28:47.599
a speedboat. You recover like an aircraft carrier. So it's

555
00:28:47.640 --> 00:28:50.000
got you get you turn slowly, and I think this

556
00:28:50.119 --> 00:28:53.000
is just finally coming back from that. That's my that's

557
00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:54.559
my opinion. I don't know whether it's right or not,

558
00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:57.880
but that's that's my perspective and my opinion on that situation.

559
00:28:58.720 --> 00:29:02.000
Yeah, just to add one note on that too. Even

560
00:29:02.039 --> 00:29:04.440
looking back at airline stuff right like that still hasn't

561
00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:07.160
figured itself out. I mean, like you like looking at

562
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:09.799
the number of pilots and then you know, now we're

563
00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:12.759
short of having a shortage of air traffic controllers and

564
00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:16.319
there's still shortages and now now the plane is now they're.

565
00:29:17.319 --> 00:29:19.079
But that's not because if people don't want to work,

566
00:29:19.240 --> 00:29:20.279
that's a different story.

567
00:29:20.599 --> 00:29:22.599
Well, it goes back to the idea of it takes

568
00:29:22.640 --> 00:29:25.799
time to train and so you can't shift it. Even

569
00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:28.319
one or two years is too short of a time,

570
00:29:28.880 --> 00:29:30.720
you know, And so they laid off so many people.

571
00:29:30.759 --> 00:29:33.880
We're still struggling for shortages. But now they're reducing flight

572
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:37.039
schedules again, like we talked about the shift in travel

573
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:39.519
patterns that we talked about previous shows, so they're reducing

574
00:29:39.519 --> 00:29:42.359
flight schedules. I mean, it's like the tourism sectors pretty

575
00:29:42.400 --> 00:29:46.720
impacted much more, much more overtly, I think, by some

576
00:29:46.839 --> 00:29:50.920
of the pandemic trends again because you know, we're people

577
00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:52.759
have to gather, they have to get to the thing

578
00:29:52.839 --> 00:29:55.640
to enjoy the experience, so it's directly impacted. But we're

579
00:29:55.680 --> 00:30:00.559
going to continue this discussion on trends in our Patreon episode.

580
00:30:01.960 --> 00:30:04.200
You had to put that little plug in there. But

581
00:30:04.279 --> 00:30:06.160
for the rest of you, this is this is the

582
00:30:06.279 --> 00:30:08.519
end of this week. Once again, I just want to

583
00:30:08.519 --> 00:30:10.279
remind you we did record this early, so if there's

584
00:30:10.319 --> 00:30:13.640
any giant, huge news, we will get to it. Don't panic.

585
00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:16.480
But It's just that Philip's going to be at Midwest

586
00:30:16.519 --> 00:30:19.599
Hunters Convention and so got to He's got to be there,

587
00:30:19.599 --> 00:30:23.240
and I'm going to be sitting around the pool drinking mohitos.

588
00:30:23.279 --> 00:30:26.720
I don't know, but anyway, thank you so much for listening.

589
00:30:26.759 --> 00:30:29.279
We really do appreciate it. On behalf of Philip, Hernandez

590
00:30:29.319 --> 00:30:31.599
and myself Scott Swinson. This is Green Tag Theme Park

591
00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:34.000
in thirty and guess what We'll see you next week
Scott Swenson, ICAE Profile Photo
Scott Swenson, ICAE

For over 30 years, Scott Swenson has been bringing stories to life as a writer, director, producer, and performer. His work in theme parks, consumer events, live theatre, and television has given him a broad spectrum of experiences. In 2014, after 21 years with SeaWorld Parks and Entertainment, Scott formed Scott Swenson Creative Development. Since then he has been providing impactful experiences for clients around the world. Whether he is installing shows on cruise ships or creating seasonal festivals for theme parks, writing educational presentations for zoos and museums or training the next generation of attractions professionals, Scott is always finding new ways to tell stories that engage, educate and entertain.

Philip Hernandez, ICAE Profile Photo
Philip Hernandez, ICAE

CEO of Gantom, Publisher of Haunted Attraction Network

Philip is a journalist reporting on the Haunted House Industry, Horror events, Theme Parks, and Halloween. He is also the CEO of Gantom Lighting and Founder / Publisher of the Haunted Attraction Network, the haunted attraction industry's most prominent news media source. He is based in Los Angeles.