Sept. 3, 2024

Why Halloween Horror Nights 2024 Falls Flat: Budget Cuts & Sparse Scares at Universal Orlando

Halloween Horror Nights opened this weekend at Universal Studios Orlando, but the event shows strains as Universal struggles to manage the opening of Epic Universe.

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Halloween Horror Nights (HHN) kicked off at Universal Studios Orlando this weekend. As the largest Halloween event in the world, HHN is a significant revenue generator for Universal, inspiring similar seasonal offerings at attractions worldwide.

However, this year’s event falls short of expectations. Could the impending opening of Epic Universe be stretching the team too thin? Or is Universal experimenting with a lower-budget experience to see how it impacts sales? In this video, Scott and Philip break down the highlights and challenges of HHN 2024.

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Okay from our studios, this time in Orlando and Tampa.

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As we are watching the Rainstorm rollin. I'm watching the

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Rainform rollin. This is Green Tag Theme Parking thirty. I'm

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joined as always of my co host Scott Swinston of

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Scott Swinson Creative Development and Scott. This weekend was the

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opening of Halloween Hornites and I was there. I think

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we should talk a little bit about it, because it

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is it. I mean, it is as we talked about

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last week when we talked about the report, If even

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the Theme Index Report will dedicate a section to the

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importance and say that Halloween has revolutionized the calendar, it's

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a big deal. And for Universal especially, it is a

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full quarter of revenue that they get in one month.

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I was just going to say, I think the first

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thing before we even dive into it, I think the

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first thing that we have to talk about as far

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as takeaways go, and as far as you know on

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the on the macrocosm of what we're about to talk about,

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is the fact that if this is being recorded, well,

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this is being recorded on September first, so you went

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in August, and the fact that we are celebrating a

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Halloween event in August, and that is not uncommon anymore

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with the larger, more successful events. It's it's it just

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proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that yes, it

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is a game changer, and yes, it is one of

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those situations where if you're not doing you know, no

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matter what size you are, if you're not doing some

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sort of some sort of seasonal activation, especially Halloween, Christmas, Summer, Spring, whatever,

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you're lead money on the table. And when it comes

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to the big parks, they know it so and that's

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why they just keep expanding and expanding and expanding, you know, Disney.

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Disney has even tried things like when they tried their

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Princess and Pirate Nights that was there. That was their

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experiment to go, well, how do we expand Halloween but

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not really call it Halloween? And they they did, They

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did Villain's Night and you know, and now they're doing

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you know, not so scary starting in August, because there's

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a there's a there's a market for it. People will

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buy those.

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Yeah. I was going to say, yeah this week, this

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past week, it was the news in the mainstream media,

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not necessarily universal, but with the mainstream media basically everybody

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was talking about how Halloween was coming early, and of

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course with so news to us because we've been talking

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about it. But to your point, Mickey's Not So Scary

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started on August ninth, and so you're basically you're getting

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the three full months of it, which is what we've

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been saying for years. But it is interesting that mainstream

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media did so many articles on it, not just Universal,

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but kind of expanding it to be because most stores

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saw a month early this year of Halloween stuff show

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up a month early, and then you're already seeing discounts.

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And meanwhile, Disneyland this week is posting about Christmas on

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their Instagram pages, which I was like, read the room, Disney,

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because you know, just just because Universals in the news

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this week for Halloween, doesn't mean that you need to

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post about Christmas. But anyway, it's really I think made

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it into the national conversation, and I think what a

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lot of the reporting that the that the you know,

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real outlets have done suggests that the reason at least

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that Universal is doing it is really to shore up

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their lagging demand that the summer season for at least

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for the parts they quote, which would be Universal and

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six flags that the summer summer season really was lagging

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behind what they had anticipated, and so they were really

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needing to bring in Halloween as early as possible, which

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is why they, according to the reporting, which is why

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they started doing the pre announcements, you know, and the

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like unmasking the Remember I talked about how the unmasking

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the Horror BTS tours started so early, two weeks before

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the event started. So really they're trying to bring which

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is weird because we've almost gotten to a point where

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the traditional busy season, the summer season is now not

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the busy season, like it's becoming a shoulder season. And

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I'm not sure if that's due to weather or it's

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the reporting said that it was due to the post pandemic,

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like like the equalization.

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The normalization.

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Yeah, it's the according said, but I'm not sure that's

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accurate because I think it might be a combination of

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that plus the heat, plus the lack of rebound of

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international travel for Florida.

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I think it's Yes, I agree with you. I think

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it's a bunch of different reasons. I think it's I

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don't think there's one. I think there's one magic bullet

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that once it's fired, is going to change and answer

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all the questions. But I do think that whether it

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is because I'm guessing that the decision to open Halloween

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when they open Halloween was made long before the summer

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season began exactly, so I can't I can't necessarily buy

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into although it's possible, but I can't necessarily buy into

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the fact that they're starting Halloween early because their summer

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was lagging because Halloween was on the calendar before the

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summer season even began, so they didn't even know that

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they could have been prognosticating about it. That's completely true,

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but I think it's but I think it's really important

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to recognize that because Halloween, I mean, the bottom line

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is the bottom line. The reason Halloween keeps expanding is

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because it keeps making money, and by making it by

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expanding it earlier and earlier, it also well helps with

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a couple things. Number One, it gets it spreads out

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the money, so it's not just three weeks in October.

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Number Two, it spreads out the crowds, so it makes

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for a better experience overall, assuming that every night isn't

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as crowded as every night used to be when it

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started at the end of September beginning of October. So

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it makes for a in theory, makes for a better experience.

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And you know, I think you mentioned weather a couple times.

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I think the thing that makes it so appealing now

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is that if they had guests who were staying away

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because of the weather in the summer, it's a nighttime event.

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Traveling again, visiting, visiting. When I was in Riod, they

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have things that close during the summer because it's just

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too hot. Their season is over the fall, winter, spring months.

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They close for summer because it's just too hot to

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be outside. And even when they are open the target,

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you know, most of them, most of the experiences, like

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in Boulevard City for example, didn't even open until two

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o'clock in the afternoon and would go until usually midnight

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or one o'clock. Family attractions as well, and that's simply

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because it's cooler. So it goes back to what we've

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often said, and that is look at the creature comforts

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and what we have said even more often, and that's

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fall of the money. So it's clear that you know,

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Halloween starting.

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Earlier and earlier.

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Is a trend that is happening now. And it is

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a trend that's happening either out of necessity based on

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what the reporters have said, or just out of the

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fact that they've done their homework and they go, hey,

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you know what, people will pay to come and see

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it first. People will pay to come early.

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So yeah, so we will see Yeah, I mean.

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Now, will it become saturated and when we get to

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the point.

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Where correct correct?

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Yeah, so on itself most likely, but exactly at least

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three to five years down the road, I.

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Think that might already be happening. So I think that

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that's kind of the setup, and now we can go

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into the actual event experience and what it was like.

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So we'll start off this week. They started with the

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Premium Screen Night, which is the first time they did

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this event, which we reported on when it was originally announced.

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That happened on Thursday, August twenty ninth, and basically what

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it was was the event doesn't open until Friday the thirtieth,

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So this is you getting to go in before the

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event technically opens, but it is a full experience and

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you get access to the entire the entire event is

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open and it's three hundred and fifty dollars per person.

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That does include general and general parking, so it's basically

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three fifty and you just get in and you don't

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have to pay extra parking whatever. It does include all

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you care to enjoy food at select stations. So essentially

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what it was was none of the regular restaurants stayed open,

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but all of the like you know, event themed areas

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themed restaurants were open and it was So that's what

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basically what it looked like. So basically, you know, you

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had the whole event was open. But whatever the event experience,

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I think that this this is probably that was one

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of the best events I've ever gone to in terms

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of the experience for this event, and that's because they

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sold hardly any tickets and so I think I think

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I heard from different sources they sold somewhere between like

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three and four thousand tickets to this event. And I

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will just say, you know, it's a really big park.

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And so what it felt like to describe it to

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people is it felt like at times you were the

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only person in the scare zone and there were you know,

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so you basically you were five or six actors to

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yourself because you were the only person in the scare zone.

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The lines for all the houses were basically five minutes

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or less the entire night, you know, and then all

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you could care to enjoy food, you know, was full servings. Now,

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I'm pretty sure they changed this because originally in the

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original copy it talked about how they were going to

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be like sample sizes, So I'm pretty sure originally they

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had planned to have it in event center or do

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something more like Iyapa does with like the sample size

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type of thing when you go to private events. But

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they switched it because there wasn't an ticket sales and

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so it's actually easier for you just to open the

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stand as normal because it's no changed operations than it

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is to move a bunch of catering carts out or whatever.

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So of course they ran out of food somehow. Even

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though it was a they sold hardly any tickets, they

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still ran out of food, which was which was odd,

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but aside.

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From that, not uncommon in theme park culinary. It is. Yes,

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theme park culinary looks only at numbers sold and then

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reevaluates how much food they're going to prepare because they

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don't want to have waste. I mean, there's a lot

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of reasons for it. But I still think it needs

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to be rethought. That's a whole nother show. We won't

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dive into that, but it's not but it's not uncommon

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for right right, so part culinary.

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Aside from that snag, I think that it was a

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it was a tremendous event, but in my opinion, I

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don't think there's any way that Universal made money on it.

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And I think to what I just said earlier about again,

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it seems like they might have done a galactic star

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cruiser thing where there maybe have hit a ceiling. So

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for whatever reason, this didn't sell, whether it was lack

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of marketing or lack of knowing what it actually entails,

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or the fact that the price point was just too

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high for you know, from what it was. Now to

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give you con to give everyone context, the prices this

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year are are expanded, are increased or whatever. So the

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top thing you can purchase is an RP tour, which

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is about three fifty three sixty, and it goes up

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from there, so it's about the saying price as a

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rap tour. However, you need admission for the RP tour,

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so admissions at least eighty dollars, so you're so so

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in the chart here that we're forming, it would be

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rip at the top. Under it would be Premium Screen

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nine at three fifty, and then under that it would

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probably be regular admission with Express, which I also, I've

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done all these things for y'all so you don't have

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to do them. And so the the regular ticket with

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Express came out to about three hundred dollars, so it's

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right under that mark. And then from there you would

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have you know, your frequent fear passes or whatever, and

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then from there your standard one nine admission, which would

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be around eighty to one hundred dollars. So that's kind

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of your chart. So again this for the money paid,

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it was better than anything because with the rip tour, yes,

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you get taken directly to all the houses, but you

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don't really get time to hang out in the scare zones,

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and you get food but only once before your tour starts,

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and you're still dealing with crowds here. No crowds, no congestion,

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no whatever, you just go in whatever. And with Express,

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like I did as well, Express only cuts the line

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in half, so when the line is ninety minutes, you're

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still waiting forty five minutes you're just paying an extra

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one hundred and seventy on top of the eighty that

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00:12:53.799 --> 00:12:57.720
you paid to enter. So so it really again, I

237
00:12:57.759 --> 00:12:59.039
don't think they're going to do it again because I

238
00:12:59.080 --> 00:13:02.840
think they kind of saw that it didn't For whatever reason,

239
00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:04.320
it didn't work. I don't know why I didn't work,

240
00:13:04.360 --> 00:13:08.440
but my theory is that what probably what happened is

241
00:13:08.480 --> 00:13:11.200
they ended up just cannibalizing their RP to our sales.

242
00:13:12.000 --> 00:13:15.919
It's like, so I'm gonna I'm going to disagree with

243
00:13:15.919 --> 00:13:19.879
you to a certain extent. Number One, it's a dress rehearsal.

244
00:13:19.919 --> 00:13:22.200
It doesn't need to make money. They're they're already going

245
00:13:22.279 --> 00:13:22.639
to do it.

246
00:13:22.759 --> 00:13:25.000
So if they already had the team member preview, which

247
00:13:25.039 --> 00:13:26.000
was their dress rehearsal, they.

248
00:13:25.919 --> 00:13:28.639
Already did the team member preview. Team member previews. Having

249
00:13:28.639 --> 00:13:31.279
worked in the industry, team member previews previews are nothing

250
00:13:31.440 --> 00:13:34.360
like a real night at all. There is more. There

251
00:13:34.399 --> 00:13:38.799
is more vandalism, There is more shenanigans that go on.

252
00:13:38.919 --> 00:13:42.480
Because the team members know the park and because they

253
00:13:42.519 --> 00:13:44.639
work there, they feel that they can pretty much do

254
00:13:44.679 --> 00:13:47.679
whatever they want. I will say that, and I'm not

255
00:13:47.720 --> 00:13:50.600
saying this is true of Universal, but I will say

256
00:13:50.639 --> 00:13:52.000
that there are parks that I have worked at in

257
00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:54.960
the past where on team member nights we actually had

258
00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:56.919
to have extra security that we didn't have to have

259
00:13:57.360 --> 00:14:01.720
during the regular event nights. So this it was It's hard.

260
00:14:01.759 --> 00:14:03.879
It's really very difficult, and I think they've discovered this.

261
00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.120
It's really very difficult to see what an actual operating

262
00:14:06.200 --> 00:14:10.159
night looks like using your team members as as a

263
00:14:10.159 --> 00:14:12.519
as a model. So they're going to do it anyway,

264
00:14:12.639 --> 00:14:17.440
Number one, Number two to your point, everybody, and I've

265
00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:20.799
I've heard this from many, many, many many people. Social

266
00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:25.039
media was posting photos of empty queues. My favorite, my

267
00:14:25.159 --> 00:14:28.519
favorite quote was, this is the first time I've ever

268
00:14:28.519 --> 00:14:30.399
been to horr Nits where there are more employees than

269
00:14:30.440 --> 00:14:36.000
there are guests, and it was so there's this perceived

270
00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:39.039
notion that there was a great value. My guess is

271
00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:42.200
they will do it again because there was this perceived

272
00:14:42.200 --> 00:14:45.039
notion of great value, and it won't be that great

273
00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:49.480
next time because again it's it had to do its

274
00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:52.120
shakedown cruise and everyone was like three fifty. I'm not

275
00:14:52.120 --> 00:14:54.919
going to spend three fifty because nobody really does the

276
00:14:54.960 --> 00:14:58.200
math like you did. They'll look at it and go well, gosh,

277
00:14:58.279 --> 00:14:59.840
I can go, you know, I can get in for

278
00:14:59.879 --> 00:15:01.559
a eight bucks. Why would I spend three hundred and

279
00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:06.360
fifty dollars. Well, as you've explained, that gets you in

280
00:15:06.399 --> 00:15:09.000
the door. That doesn't get you in the haunts. It

281
00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:12.960
doesn't get you, you know, right up to them to do.

282
00:15:13.679 --> 00:15:17.799
It's actually the second highest price because the rip tour

283
00:15:18.080 --> 00:15:21.159
with your admission is going to be in the four

284
00:15:21.240 --> 00:15:24.879
hundred dollars range versus the three fifty, So it's actually

285
00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:28.200
cheaper than your rip tours. And then you say, well,

286
00:15:28.240 --> 00:15:30.360
perhaps they won't do it because it was cannibalizing the

287
00:15:30.440 --> 00:15:34.879
rip tours. I can almost guarantee you that at least,

288
00:15:34.919 --> 00:15:37.159
and I think these are very conservative numbers, at least

289
00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:40.360
fifty percent of the people that did the VIP night

290
00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:43.279
will still go back and do an rip tour. I

291
00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:48.120
can almost promise you that because the Horn Night's fans

292
00:15:48.200 --> 00:15:54.559
are are avid. They it's it's almost with some folks,

293
00:15:54.559 --> 00:15:59.679
it's almost a religion. So I mean, going back to

294
00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:01.720
the back to the Hallowscream days when we were in

295
00:16:01.759 --> 00:16:05.600
the golden era of Halloscream in Tampa, we did we

296
00:16:05.720 --> 00:16:09.279
had one couple, actually, we had several couples, but one

297
00:16:09.320 --> 00:16:12.679
that I got to know who would come. They would

298
00:16:12.679 --> 00:16:16.759
do a VIP tour at Horror Nights on Friday night

299
00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:19.480
and then do a VIP tour at Bush Tampa on

300
00:16:19.559 --> 00:16:21.799
Saturday night, and then the next year they would flip that,

301
00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:24.759
and they did it every weekend of the event. So

302
00:16:25.679 --> 00:16:29.320
there are those fans who will if there's something offering

303
00:16:29.559 --> 00:16:32.039
that they can get into, they'll do it. They will

304
00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:35.000
find a way to make it happen. That is with

305
00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:37.399
this particular couple, they said, this is our Christmas. We

306
00:16:37.399 --> 00:16:40.679
don't celebrate Christmas, we celebrate Halloween, and so therefore we're

307
00:16:40.720 --> 00:16:42.840
going to get every possible thing we can out of it.

308
00:16:43.279 --> 00:16:48.080
And the more VIP people, more VIP experienced people seem

309
00:16:48.120 --> 00:16:50.279
to get, the more they crave it, the more they

310
00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:52.399
want it, and the more they will absolutely not go

311
00:16:52.519 --> 00:16:57.080
back and do the park without it. So I sincerely

312
00:16:57.159 --> 00:17:01.919
doubt that it will cannibalize too much on the the

313
00:17:01.919 --> 00:17:03.960
the rip tours during the actual run of the event.

314
00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:07.480
The only pushback I have heard, and this is anecdotal,

315
00:17:07.599 --> 00:17:10.240
the only pushback I have heard has been it's just

316
00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:13.160
too damned early. There are some some folks because let's

317
00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:16.000
face it, the people who can afford this kind of

318
00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:21.759
event are not your typical you know, teens, teens and tweens.

319
00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:23.920
So they're like, there are people who are more a

320
00:17:23.960 --> 00:17:28.079
little bit more traditional in their halloweens celebrations, and they're like, well,

321
00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:30.880
I'd rather I would rather spend you know, the money

322
00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:33.920
later to get the vial tour when there's actually something

323
00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:36.000
going on as opposed to the middle of summer.

324
00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:42.119
Yeah, so we won't know any of this. Yeah, of

325
00:17:42.720 --> 00:17:44.920
the dozen or so people that I pulled, none of

326
00:17:44.960 --> 00:17:48.119
them are going to take the tour. So just my

327
00:17:48.119 --> 00:17:52.680
my very light research would would push against that theory.

328
00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:56.680
But you know who knows, right, of the dozen people

329
00:17:56.759 --> 00:17:57.240
I talk.

330
00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:00.640
To, didn't you say you took the VIP tour as well?

331
00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:04.599
Yeah? So of thirteen sampling one person. But I'm also

332
00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:06.920
doing it so I can write a big compare and

333
00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:10.000
contrast research report on it because it's my life, right.

334
00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:12.839
And again mine's anecdotal as well. I just know that

335
00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:15.960
based on the people that I know, who are the

336
00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:21.039
Yatol fans what And they may even say we won't

337
00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:22.799
do it, and then they'll turn around two weekends later.

338
00:18:22.839 --> 00:18:26.480
Yeah, who knows, right, yeah, what Basically the reasoning that

339
00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:30.279
I heard was that similar to your point, though it

340
00:18:30.359 --> 00:18:32.119
is the same vein, But basically the reason I heard

341
00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:33.759
was that they're like, we're going to do this so

342
00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:36.599
we can experience the entire event, and then we also

343
00:18:36.640 --> 00:18:38.400
are going to buy a frequent fear but like the

344
00:18:38.440 --> 00:18:41.079
lowest level, and then we'll just come every night and

345
00:18:41.160 --> 00:18:43.920
hang out because we've already done everything, but we can

346
00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:47.000
just chill or whatever, you know. So that's fine.

347
00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:50.599
So it's even going to get them more revenue because

348
00:18:50.720 --> 00:18:53.359
they're going to come back more nights as opposed to

349
00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:55.200
one or two nights at the super high end, They're

350
00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:57.200
going to come back four nights at a lower end,

351
00:18:57.319 --> 00:18:59.960
which still ultimately generates more revenue for them.

352
00:19:00.559 --> 00:19:04.920
So will, I guess to be determined. Right moving on

353
00:19:05.079 --> 00:19:07.480
to the actual event. So that was the preview, and

354
00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:10.440
then the event actually opened than on Friday, and it's

355
00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:12.480
been open in Friday and Saturdays or two nights. But

356
00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:18.839
I think overall the so I again I have I

357
00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:24.319
did pull as many guests as I could. Overall, the

358
00:19:24.359 --> 00:19:27.799
sentiment that I'm getting from regular people who are in

359
00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:32.559
line and regular guests is that the event is more expensive,

360
00:19:33.039 --> 00:19:38.519
and it is worse, which I think almost you would

361
00:19:38.559 --> 00:19:41.400
argue is the nature of things and also is not

362
00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:48.519
like necessarily unexpected because Epic they're still building Epic right now,

363
00:19:48.599 --> 00:19:51.279
and so that's a big drain on not only budgets,

364
00:19:51.319 --> 00:19:54.920
but resources, manpower. A lot of attention is dealing with

365
00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:57.519
that right now. God only knows how they're going to

366
00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:01.160
open that next year when Epic, Universal and Hornets are

367
00:20:01.160 --> 00:20:03.160
gonna be opening the same you know, two months, and

368
00:20:03.160 --> 00:20:05.400
they're going to hire five thousand people that you know

369
00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:09.960
don't exist currently here. But and that's another podcast. But basically,

370
00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:14.359
and I will say also as a you know person

371
00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:17.759
who's industry and design or whatnot, you can feel that

372
00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:21.519
the budget is much less everywhere except for the three

373
00:20:21.519 --> 00:20:25.200
main houses, the ones that they are advertising. The ones

374
00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:29.240
they're advertising get a's for different reasons. But Ghostbusters gets

375
00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:33.359
an A because it is so nostalgic. It's full of

376
00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:36.359
Easter eggs, there are details everywhere. It is truly a

377
00:20:36.400 --> 00:20:41.319
great example of a maze. Insidious. Insidious is actually my

378
00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:44.440
favorite house, and it's one of my favorite theme park

379
00:20:44.480 --> 00:20:46.880
houses I've seen in a very long time, and it's

380
00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:49.599
because they don't really they don't try and even tell

381
00:20:49.640 --> 00:20:52.680
a story. All they do is they're like, you're entering

382
00:20:52.680 --> 00:20:55.359
the further, have fun. And then from there on it's

383
00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:57.440
a classic counted house where there's just a lot of

384
00:20:57.440 --> 00:20:59.839
curtains and there's a lot of actors popping out of places.

385
00:21:00.160 --> 00:21:04.799
There's addicts with crazy demons, and you know, somebody's vomiting

386
00:21:04.839 --> 00:21:07.039
on you in a corner. I don't know, Like it

387
00:21:07.160 --> 00:21:09.599
just goes crazy and it's just scary. It's just fun

388
00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:13.720
and scary and great, and it's terrifying in a way

389
00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:15.440
that theme park cons have not been terrifying in a

390
00:21:15.480 --> 00:21:19.039
long time. So it gets an a. And then the

391
00:21:19.119 --> 00:21:22.920
quiet place, which we talked about. I know they did

392
00:21:22.920 --> 00:21:24.720
a lot of talking about how they were going to

393
00:21:24.759 --> 00:21:26.680
make it blah blah blah, all that stuff. I think

394
00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:28.880
the majority of that is lost on the guests because

395
00:21:28.880 --> 00:21:31.160
if you don't speak sign language, you don't even notice

396
00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:33.160
that the people are sign languaging at you. And all

397
00:21:33.200 --> 00:21:35.759
the guests to Scott what a Scott said originally about this,

398
00:21:36.119 --> 00:21:38.720
all the guests are screaming anyway, So you can't hear

399
00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:42.240
anything of the quiet stuff because it's completely lost on them.

400
00:21:42.519 --> 00:21:45.880
But I will give them credit. The puppets. It's a

401
00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:48.400
mix of puppets and animatronics that they made to recreate

402
00:21:48.400 --> 00:21:51.119
the Death Angels from that, and they're we're talking like

403
00:21:51.200 --> 00:21:56.000
ten to fourteen feet here, and they are exquisite and

404
00:21:56.039 --> 00:22:00.640
they are gorgeous and it's great. Unfortunately, it's a scene haunt,

405
00:22:00.680 --> 00:22:02.880
and so you walk through different scenes, so if you

406
00:22:02.920 --> 00:22:05.279
miss the trigger because they're all animatronics, and you just

407
00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:08.200
miss the whole thing. So I've gone through it maybe

408
00:22:08.240 --> 00:22:10.079
three or four times, and I'd say it's about a

409
00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:13.039
fifty percent chance that you miss the entire haunt. So

410
00:22:14.240 --> 00:22:16.480
there's that. So those three get the a's. The rest

411
00:22:16.519 --> 00:22:19.920
are terrible, Sorry, they just are. They're just clearly rehashed

412
00:22:20.079 --> 00:22:22.599
with very little budget, where you just they just bought

413
00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:24.480
stuff from the Transport show floor and just shoved it

414
00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:33.079
into corners. The streets are really really are bare basically

415
00:22:33.119 --> 00:22:34.880
this year, I think I don't I don't know if

416
00:22:34.880 --> 00:22:36.559
the guests would be able to say it this way,

417
00:22:36.599 --> 00:22:39.279
but I can because in the story they basically put

418
00:22:39.359 --> 00:22:44.400
up no stanchions anywhere. So the entrance has one kind

419
00:22:44.440 --> 00:22:47.039
of catwalk that they've put up where the two Icon

420
00:22:47.119 --> 00:22:52.279
characters stand above the crowd. But that's it. They didn't.

421
00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:54.480
So normally what you do is, you know, you put

422
00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:56.839
up stanchions, so you have lighting mounds so you can

423
00:22:56.880 --> 00:22:58.880
mount lights on, and you have these you know, these

424
00:22:58.920 --> 00:23:04.640
temporary temporary steel structures. They didn't put them anywhere this year.

425
00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:08.920
So once you walk past that castwalk, that catwalk, there's

426
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:13.720
not a single prop anywhere until you get all the

427
00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:16.839
way down to the New York area where the Torture

428
00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:19.440
Fair is. So from the main entrance all the way

429
00:23:19.480 --> 00:23:24.200
down there, it's completely empty. One would one would say

430
00:23:24.680 --> 00:23:29.039
they could be doing this to help with flow. However,

431
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:32.440
I would counter that with that. What ends up happening

432
00:23:32.759 --> 00:23:35.920
is that because the only thing to do in that

433
00:23:35.960 --> 00:23:40.920
whole zone is to listen to the two icons yamor constantly,

434
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:45.440
is everyone just stands there and ends up blocking the

435
00:23:45.599 --> 00:23:49.279
entrance and the exit because they're just standing there recording.

436
00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:52.039
So what it does is actually create a safety hazard

437
00:23:52.079 --> 00:23:54.279
because people can't get in or out of that one area.

438
00:23:54.680 --> 00:23:58.960
So come on, and then I don't know that is.

439
00:23:58.920 --> 00:24:01.960
And that is designer one one. Normally, you know, if

440
00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:04.000
you have a if you have a walk in experience,

441
00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:05.599
and this is something that I learned the hard way.

442
00:24:06.000 --> 00:24:07.799
I learned the hard way. But if you have a

443
00:24:07.799 --> 00:24:11.599
walk in experience, it has to stop about every five

444
00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:16.359
to seven minutes, yep, pause and restart itself. That way

445
00:24:16.400 --> 00:24:19.119
you don't miss anybody, but you also don't keep people

446
00:24:19.160 --> 00:24:23.599
there interminably. So that is a that is a design flaw.

447
00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:27.680
That is a design flaw. But I I agree with you,

448
00:24:28.000 --> 00:24:29.839
and I'm not a huge I'm not a huge fan

449
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:32.720
of I love sense of arrival. I think that's essential,

450
00:24:33.240 --> 00:24:35.400
but I think that you have to make sure they

451
00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:37.039
can get into the park, and then you have to

452
00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:39.359
pulse them deeper into the park because if you can,

453
00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:41.200
if you can make it work right, if you can

454
00:24:41.240 --> 00:24:44.200
make your your sense of arrival work right, you're pulsing

455
00:24:44.200 --> 00:24:46.680
people into the experience of the park so it never

456
00:24:46.720 --> 00:24:50.799
gets fully gridlocked anywhere. But it sounds like that's not

457
00:24:50.839 --> 00:24:53.559
what's happening. You're getting up, you're getting a backlog right

458
00:24:53.599 --> 00:24:55.720
at the front, and then people kind of trickle in.

459
00:24:56.279 --> 00:24:58.480
Well, and then to yours, to your point, I'm so

460
00:24:58.519 --> 00:25:02.279
glad about the sen of arrival. So a long time,

461
00:25:02.519 --> 00:25:04.599
you know, Scott and I used to tisha class on

462
00:25:04.680 --> 00:25:06.759
you know, power moments or you know, Scott taught it

463
00:25:06.759 --> 00:25:08.279
and I just kind of like helped with the with

464
00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:12.200
the materials. But you know the concept of having memorable moments, right,

465
00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:15.119
and you want to start off strong. And so the

466
00:25:15.200 --> 00:25:18.119
problem is, so here's the thing. Those two icons are

467
00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:19.920
not up there all night. I'm sure they're not up

468
00:25:19.920 --> 00:25:22.519
there all night to help with flow. So they're not

469
00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:25.599
there early because so many people are walking in, right,

470
00:25:25.599 --> 00:25:27.359
So they're not there early. They kind of show up

471
00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:29.559
around nine pm and they're there, you know, until and

472
00:25:29.559 --> 00:25:32.640
then they just stand up there. So the problem is

473
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:35.279
they're the only thing in that area. So when people

474
00:25:35.359 --> 00:25:39.440
are arriving, their first experience is just of a catwalk

475
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:43.079
with some downlighting that you would see at any regular

476
00:25:43.160 --> 00:25:46.279
club or anywhere, right, and there's no there's no icons,

477
00:25:46.279 --> 00:25:48.519
so they don't even see an icon when you come in.

478
00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:50.960
They need a sense of show. And when I say that,

479
00:25:50.960 --> 00:25:53.640
that means that their appearances have to have a beginning, middle,

480
00:25:53.640 --> 00:25:57.119
and an end. Yeah, you know, and that way the

481
00:25:57.160 --> 00:25:59.960
people who want to experience that short sense of show.

482
00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:01.759
And I know there are people out there who completely

483
00:26:01.799 --> 00:26:03.799
disagree with this approach, but I have just seen it

484
00:26:03.839 --> 00:26:05.839
work so many more times than I've seen it fail.

485
00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:08.759
And if there's a beginning, middle, and end to that

486
00:26:08.799 --> 00:26:11.759
sense of arrival show, it pulses guests in. Those people

487
00:26:11.799 --> 00:26:13.960
who want to see it can do it quickly and

488
00:26:14.000 --> 00:26:14.960
then move on with their night.

489
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:20.319
Yeah. So, and I spoke to again, like I said,

490
00:26:20.359 --> 00:26:22.319
as many guests as I could that were just normal people,

491
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:26.480
and I heard a lot of yeah, a lot of

492
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:30.319
stuff where the exact quotes are like, it doesn't seem

493
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:32.880
like they try to all this year. There's no coherency.

494
00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:36.240
It used to feel like this was all an experience,

495
00:26:36.279 --> 00:26:39.240
and now it just feels boring. I spent most of

496
00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:42.240
the time tonight on my phone. I mean it really

497
00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:47.839
like because the problem is now the event cohesion has

498
00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:52.119
kind of fallen apart because there's only two main areas.

499
00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:54.559
There's the Torture Fair over by New York, and then

500
00:26:54.599 --> 00:26:58.400
there's the there's the two scare zones that are over

501
00:26:58.440 --> 00:27:02.160
the Hollywood area, and then the the swamp by Et right,

502
00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:04.359
and the swamp by et is always a choke point,

503
00:27:04.359 --> 00:27:06.680
so it's not helping to just make it another choke

504
00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:10.079
point again. So it it's like you have those it's

505
00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:12.839
very patchy because you have those three areas and there's

506
00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:17.119
nothing at all whatsoever between the men in black and

507
00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:20.160
all the way up to ET because they took that

508
00:27:20.240 --> 00:27:22.640
scared zone out, so there's just and then when you

509
00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:25.559
stand in line, they have moved some of the lines around,

510
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:29.640
so you basically in that area, you go walk and

511
00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:32.839
you're standing outside in this outside area with nothing going on.

512
00:27:33.720 --> 00:27:37.200
So it's really it's it's patchy. And the last thing

513
00:27:37.240 --> 00:27:38.960
I'm gonna say to end up on it is that

514
00:27:39.079 --> 00:27:41.000
this is the first year where I have gone to

515
00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:44.400
Hornit where I have felt legitimately unsafe, like I have

516
00:27:44.480 --> 00:27:46.599
felt like the way I feel what I'm trying to

517
00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:51.319
navigate downtown Los Angeles, you know. So not unsafe in

518
00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:54.000
a fun way where I'm happy that, you know, but

519
00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:59.119
unsafe in a like the crowd control because the staffing

520
00:28:00.200 --> 00:28:01.920
you can tell there's not enough staffing for the amount

521
00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:04.720
of crowds they're trying to pump through there. And especially

522
00:28:04.759 --> 00:28:08.519
in those back areas where you're moving people to lines

523
00:28:08.599 --> 00:28:12.400
behind you know, behind the behind et or wherever they are,

524
00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:17.960
there's so many people that are moving and there's no

525
00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:22.519
crowd direction at all, and there's no staff anywhere, there's

526
00:28:22.519 --> 00:28:26.160
no security anywhere, and not only was I kind of

527
00:28:26.279 --> 00:28:30.319
verbally gotten to some verbal issues with people were yelling

528
00:28:30.319 --> 00:28:32.720
and whatnot at me for no reason, but also pushed

529
00:28:32.759 --> 00:28:35.839
and shoved because people are trying to get into the lines, right,

530
00:28:35.920 --> 00:28:38.720
and there's only one staff member there checking express and

531
00:28:38.799 --> 00:28:42.160
the line queues up, and then people start shoving and

532
00:28:42.200 --> 00:28:44.359
fighting and then just jumping in the line. I mean,

533
00:28:44.440 --> 00:28:48.920
it's and that's beside the vandalism in the parking lot, right,

534
00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:53.359
So that's I think that's kind of pure staffing plus

535
00:28:53.400 --> 00:28:56.000
the amount of people they're trying to push in there,

536
00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:58.279
and maybe that'll equal out as less people go to

537
00:28:58.319 --> 00:29:01.440
the parks. But I was there last night at one

538
00:29:01.480 --> 00:29:05.440
am and we still had an hour wait times for

539
00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:10.519
most of the hunted houses. So I don't know that's it.

540
00:29:11.599 --> 00:29:15.359
Yeah, well, you know, I think that I think that

541
00:29:15.599 --> 00:29:19.759
what we are seeing then is the real downside of success,

542
00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:23.119
the fact that the fact that you know, Halloween Hornit's

543
00:29:23.119 --> 00:29:25.240
is a very popular event and I have not gone

544
00:29:25.240 --> 00:29:27.839
in several years, mainly because I'm not a huge fan

545
00:29:27.880 --> 00:29:31.519
of crowds anyway, so which is weird considering what I do.

546
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:35.279
But I but it also helps me, I think because

547
00:29:35.279 --> 00:29:37.480
I always try to make sure that once you are

548
00:29:38.599 --> 00:29:40.160
depending on how much control I have and what the

549
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:42.680
budget is, once you are in Q, you're inexperience. So

550
00:29:42.720 --> 00:29:45.759
I like to make certain that that the queue is

551
00:29:46.000 --> 00:29:49.640
part of the storytelling, even in some small way if

552
00:29:49.680 --> 00:29:53.559
it's some audio trigger or something like that. So, but

553
00:29:54.119 --> 00:29:56.480
that's sorry, I'm going down another rabbit hole. I don't

554
00:29:56.519 --> 00:29:59.880
care for the crowds. I don't care for my personal

555
00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:06.480
don't care for the amount of or consumption of alcohol

556
00:30:06.480 --> 00:30:09.599
that is allowed because there are some people there who

557
00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:11.559
and I know this to be true because I know

558
00:30:11.640 --> 00:30:16.839
these people who go and after they'll go two or

559
00:30:16.839 --> 00:30:18.559
three times in a year, and after the second time,

560
00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:20.880
they won't even try to get into a house, They'll

561
00:30:20.920 --> 00:30:22.880
just walk around and drink and raise hell.

562
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:24.880
So I.

563
00:30:26.440 --> 00:30:29.319
Do understand that the universal is trying to do everything

564
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:31.240
they can to keep it safe. I'm not going to

565
00:30:31.279 --> 00:30:34.039
accuse them of being negligent, because I haven't been there.

566
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:36.960
I can't do that. I will, however, say that we

567
00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:40.359
are also living in a very contentious time and so

568
00:30:40.440 --> 00:30:42.200
much more so much more of the ankst that we

569
00:30:42.240 --> 00:30:45.079
are feeling towards one another is on the surface. This

570
00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:48.559
is not going to become a political discussion, but it is.

571
00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:51.680
It's just the time that we live in and so

572
00:30:52.200 --> 00:30:56.400
I think that that hopefully is going to pass, but

573
00:30:56.680 --> 00:31:00.680
I don't see it passing. Well, it's not a this season.

574
00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:04.319
So the over and above the get out and enjoy

575
00:31:04.319 --> 00:31:08.000
Halloween early. I think my personal recommendation is stay safe,

576
00:31:08.039 --> 00:31:15.079
stay calm, recognize its fantasy, and enjoy yourself. So yeah,

577
00:31:15.200 --> 00:31:17.799
it's it's unique. We live in a unique time and

578
00:31:18.079 --> 00:31:20.039
this is gonna it's gonna be unique in all of

579
00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:22.160
the haunts. But if you are an owner and operator,

580
00:31:22.200 --> 00:31:24.160
make sure you got the security. Make sure that you

581
00:31:24.240 --> 00:31:28.519
train your people to be calm, to de escalate situations

582
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:30.759
as opposed to escalating them, so that they don't go

583
00:31:30.799 --> 00:31:33.079
out into the parking lot when they're done and smash

584
00:31:33.119 --> 00:31:36.960
cars and vandalize in the parking lot. There's just a

585
00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:40.039
lot of things to take into consideration, and it's probably

586
00:31:40.039 --> 00:31:42.599
too late now, but just keep if you are. If

587
00:31:42.599 --> 00:31:44.960
anybody who's on a security team is listening right now,

588
00:31:45.319 --> 00:31:46.839
go talk to your staff and tell them to take

589
00:31:46.839 --> 00:31:49.640
a deep breath, stay chill, and keep an eye keep

590
00:31:49.640 --> 00:31:52.880
an eye out on everybody because you never know who's

591
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:56.200
going to push a guest into somebody else and start

592
00:31:56.240 --> 00:31:59.680
a whole another fracas. All right, Unfortunately we are out

593
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:02.400
of time. We could probably I know, Philip and I

594
00:32:02.440 --> 00:32:05.519
we could talk about Halloween events for the next two

595
00:32:05.559 --> 00:32:07.799
and a half hours, but we've gone way over. So

596
00:32:08.000 --> 00:32:10.759
until next time on behalf of Philip Bernandez and myself

597
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:13.640
Scott Swinson. This is Green Tagged theme Park in thirty

598
00:32:13.799 --> 00:32:15.440
and we will see you next week.

599
00:32:15.839 --> 00:32:17.240
And don't forget our bonus content.

600
00:32:17.519 --> 00:32:18.319
Oh yeah, there's that.

601
00:32:18.799 --> 00:32:20.119
There's that. Yes, okay, I think