Jan. 8, 2024
Steamboat Willie's Impact on Theme Parks
Steamboat Willie has crossed into the Public Domain, and we discuss what impact (if any) this has on the theme park industry. Philip references...
Steamboat Willie has crossed into the Public Domain, and we discuss what impact (if any) this has on the theme park industry. Philip references this article from the Verge. We also highlight the five 2024 openings we're most excited about. See the full list from Attractions Magazine here.
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From our studios in Los Angeles and
Tampa. This is green tagged at Theme
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Park and thirty. I am,
as always, joined by my magnificent co
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host, Scott Swinson and Scott Swinson
Creative Development. And you know what,
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Scott, The big news of the
week, of course, is that Steamboat
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Willie has entered the public domain.
We have heard it everywhere. Everyone has
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covered it, and I think we're
going to talk about it not because everyone
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else is talking about it. We're
gonna talk about it because it is a
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big thing in our industry. I
think I've seen in all our groups,
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I've seen people talking about it and
this and that and whatnot well, and
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I think it's also important that we
talk about it so that people will dig
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a little bit deeper so they actually
understand what this means, because in many
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cases, you know, it's like
people have been saying, well, now
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I can do anything I want to
with Mickey Mouse. No you can't.
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So yeah, I think there are
some great articles I'm going to link to
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in the show notes that give you
one from The Verge, which I thought
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was a fantas pastic one that really
explains how it's still like the lines are
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are still trying to be Basically,
we're going to have to wait until stuff
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ends up in court for the lines
to be drawn. Is how things work
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in America. That's just Welcome to
America, kids. That's how we don't
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know how far. We don't know
how, we don't know what how what
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we don't know what too far is
until we've gone too far. And let's
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face it, you know, Disney
will lawyer up, well, are already
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lawyered up, and will come after
you if if they feel that there is
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you know, some sort of potential
damage to their brand, or that someone
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has crossed the line or something is
someone is earning money off of something that
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they don't deserve to earn money off
of. So yeah, there are quite
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a few. I mean people were
surprised by this. I was not.
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There were several several films already were
announced with trailers ready to go. I
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mean, so people were shooting a
lot of the stuff beforehand, and we're
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just waiting for the day. Well, because it's what ninety five years is
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that the isn't the the public domain
timeline thought it was one hundred, but
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I think I think they well it
was originally sixty five then they brought it
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up to ninety five, and they
brought it up to ninety five from what
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I was told, and again please
fact check me. They brought it up
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when Mickey was originally going to go
into public domain. And we no one
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knows for certain, but we think
perhaps Disney lobby to make it longer.
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So I think it's now ninety five. But whatever it is, people are
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You know that there are people out
there with well known who are watching well
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known ips going okay, when does
it hit this hit public domain when?
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And they can they can do all
kinds of stuff. You know, you
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can you can break you know,
you can can break copyright law as long
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as you don't distribute to anybody.
And then once it goes public domain and
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you start your distribution, you know, get it out there before any lawsuits
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happen and they clarify those lines.
And now you do run the risk that
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you may be one of those lawsuits
to help clarify those lines. But if
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that's the case, that it just
gets you a ton of press. So
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you know, yeah, there's a
there is a game to this. There's
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a big game to figuring out how
to time your utilization of public domain.
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Well, The article that I linked
to from The Verge kind of outlines a
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lot of this, and it outlines
that, well, really that there's already
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been confusion about it. There's quite
there's a few people that said that that
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YouTube was still taking down some videos
and that basically Disney was still filing copyright
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on YouTube and on Tea public for
some stuff that you know, and earlier
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in the new year, and YouTube
is taking it down, et cetera,
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et cetera. So nobody has comment
on it, and I think, I
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think, really again, we're just
gonna have to wait and see exactly where
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the lines are. But basically,
I think the rule of thumb is it's
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really just Steamboat Willie, so it's
not any later. It's really like like
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the like the thing for example that
really solidified it for me is, you
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know the iconic gloves. Those don't
those appear later and those are copyrighted.
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So for example, you know,
I mean, really you it has to
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look exactly like the cartoon in Steamboat
Willie, and there can be no gloves,
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like all those subtle changes over the
years that are copyrighted. Those are
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the items that are going to get
you tripped up, that are going to
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get anybody tripp up about these things, and also referring, you know,
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making it appears in any way that
it's being endorsed or created by the Disney
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Company or like anything later they have
any of that stuff. That's like those
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are the subtle lines. And I
think that's kind of what the article is
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pointing out, is that how subtle
the lines are, exactly where the delineation
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is. It's really going to be
up to the courts later and that Disney
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is ready to start filing, and
you know, of course Disney is going
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to try and make the lines as
tight as they possibly can. That is
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their goal. Their goal is to
get things in course. Like I think
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that's how that's also how it works
in America. Right Disney is actively looking
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right now four things they can bring
to court because each case they win helps
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them get a tighter line. And
that's what we want, like we want
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to have the line directly around the
cartoon. I'm sure that's what they want
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at least they want to get that
line drawn directly around it. So you
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know, it's just it's going to
take. It's going to have a period
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of settling. But I think the
reason I think it's important for us in
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the contraction of industry. Is not
because this is dizzy and all that.
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It's really because something like this that
is so relevant to the parks has not
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happened in a while, you know. I mean there was Oswald, yeah
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that you know, there's a Wald, and that kind of gave us a
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preview. And there's one of the
Pooh, of course, which happened last
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year, and we had blood and
honey and whatnot. But I think that
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seeing how tightly these lines are going
to be drawn and exactly navigating all that
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is going to be important for any
of us that want to create parity work
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or somehow even you know, do
nods towards stuff which I actually might be
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a this might be a contrary position, but I do think there's a place
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for parody work in the attractions space. And I think that, you know,
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I was thinking, of course,
not what I was thinking about hind
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Houses, but I was like,
yeah, it would be cool to have
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a Now that Ticker is coming in
and Peter Panner is coming in, and
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of course we have steamboat Willie.
I think having a latex mass that is
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a Winnie the Pooh thing, but
like a zombie or like, you know,
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like an evil version of that.
I think that kind of stuff would
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be great. I think, like
a I think you could do a steamboat
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Willy haunted house. That could be
fantastic and and kind of ride ride the
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wave of enthusiasm. I think these
are opportunities basically for you to create stuff
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again, you know, if it's
done in the right way. And that's
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why this is all important. It's
all important because we're watching to see how
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tightly the lines are drawn. It
gives us a guidebook. And then as
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more and more of the more contemporary
ips start dropping over the next few years,
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there's quite a few that are coming
out in a few years. You
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know, it'll help us have a
playbook for time, even even if you're
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just writing it, writing it into
your shows. If you have a comedy
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show and you're writing stuff into it, or you want to do a skater
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here there. I think there are
a lot of opportunities to capture these cultural
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moments at your attraction, and I
think you should be able to do well.
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And it's interesting that you say on
a attraction because on January second of
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this year, Variety posted the headline
Steamboat Willy horror film announced as a Mickey
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Mouse Enter's public domain. Yes,
so there were two. There were two
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horror films that have that were ready
to go, so you know, it
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was one of those situations where they
were they were queued up and ready to
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hit that that horror film. And
I think that, you know, I
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think the reason I don't I don't
really believe that people are just that sadistic
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that they want to tear down an
iconic character. But I do think that,
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you know, if you're going to
get attention, you want to go
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as far from the original intent of
the character as possible. And Steamboat Willie
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becoming a horror film, yeah,
I think is I think is very interesting
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and I think it I think they
were, you know, ready to go
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for it. And again, this
may be one of those first uh first
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lawsuits that it sets the parameters a
bit more and whoever's doing it. It's
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interesting because if you if you look
at even the announcement in one of the
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in one of the flavor images for
the horror film, Mickey's wearing gloves.
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So I think there's I think there's
going to be you know, you know,
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there's going to be a lawyer looking
at that going. That's not steamboat
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Willie Mickey. That is post steamboat
Willie Mickey, which is not in public
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domain yet you can't use it.
Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, you
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know, I think I think you're
right. I think there is a place
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for parody, and parody to a
certain extent is protected. You know,
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there is a there is a parody
exemption for these kinds of things. But
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there's also it's also something that we
have to take into consideration and really keep
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an eye on because so many of
the what we're once thought of as Evergreen
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Eye pas will in you know,
maybe not my lifetime, but but some
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of our listeners lifetimes come into public
domain and you're gonna have to either defend
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them or be ready to, you
know, find new ways to to reinvent
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them. I honestly think, and
I could be wrong here, but I
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honestly think that's why Mickey has changed
so much over the years. You know,
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there used to be a great poster
that you could get at every at
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every Disney theme park which had the
various ages of Mickey and how he was,
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how he changed each year. So
with that alone, they've got Mickey
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protected, A form of Mickey protected
forever, you know, because he keep
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they keep reinventing him. It's sort
of like it's sort of like with classic
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rock bands. I don't know whether
you've paid any attention to this, but
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with classic rock bands, this is
more about getting the royalties for it.
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But when classic rock bands change their
lineup, and you know, there are
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bands out there that have no original
members in them but are still someone in
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the band still owns the name which
they purchased from one of the last original
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members. I think Foreigner is one
of them, if I'm not mistaken.
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But they've gone back and re recorded
everything, all of the old classics so
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that they can get the royalties for
it, and it doesn't go back to
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the original band or the families of
the original band. So if you do
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have if you do have a strong
IP that is older, you know,
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perhaps it is time to reinvent it, tweak it, go back to the
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the original IP holder if you're not
the original IP holder, and see if
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there's a way that you can make
it so that you can help protect it
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from We'll call it the steamboat WILLI
factor. You know, well, we
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talked about it when our Taylor kind
of half sojourn but that's what Taylor did
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and has been doing as well to
re record all of those masters the original.
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But I'm wondering, Scott, I
guess what do you think that attraction
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should be looking at this at all? I mean, like, you know,
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because obviously your perspective is someone like
my perspective obviously comes from a media
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person, a creator, and so
obviously I'm like, oh, it'd be
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cool to like for just me,
right, it'd be cool for me or
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for you know, to do a
like I could see myself doing a steamboat
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Willie almost like re enactment with some
people and kind of adding some horror elements
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to it and kind of making it
fun, you know, Like I yeah,
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I'm I'm excited for this. I'm
already thinking about it. I was
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even thinking of like, oh,
maybe we should try and commission a tigger
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like costume or like a silicon mask
and do like a little type of thing.
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But I want to know from your
perspective as a writer, you have
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written for so many thing parts and
so many shows and whatnot, Like,
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does this like is this important at
all for you? Guys? I mean,
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could you see this impacting it all? Or are you already protected by
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parity for the most part. When
you're using stuff in like the hanging or
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something, so it doesn't matter.
I'm usually I'm I'm usually protected under the
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parody. I mean, it's if
it has to be at least a sixty
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percent, you know, difference,
same with music, that sort of thing,
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to have it to have it be
considered either original or or parody.
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I mean, I can't go out
there and write something and call it,
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you know, Ricky Rat and and
it's the Ricky Rat Playtime Show unless I
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can prove, if if questioned,
that it is one hundred percent parody and
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that you know, it does not
look it only looks forty percent like the
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characters that are that are being held, you know with The only way I
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see this to be used is parody, which is what we're already using.
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I think it's going to be a
gimmick. I think there's a I really
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and I'm sorry I hate to sound
like this guy, but I think this
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has much to do about very little. I just think that we need to
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be like attraction set at is this
anyway, because you know, it goes
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against developing your own IP and if
anything, it would just be like a
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gimmicky thing they would do together because
nobody can own it now. I mean
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public domain means yes, you can
use it, and so can the park
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across the street, and so can
the park which with a bigger budget down
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town, and so can the you
know. So it really doesn't give you
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any leverage from an IP standpoint,
because you can't really own it. It's
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public domain. You can use it, but so can everybody else. It's
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kind of like it's kind of like
public domain music. I mean, quite
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often in more budget television commercials you
will hear a similar tune because they can't
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own it. They can't say you
can't use this because they just bought it
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from a from a toonhouse, you
know, they bought it with a subscription
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to tune Pocket or whatever, and
based on that subscription, they can use
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it however they wish. So you
can't really own it. So I don't
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really see an advantage to it.
I think where it's really going to be
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interesting is to see how many daycare
centers are now called Steamboat Willie Daycare,
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you know, because again it's it's
not I don't see that it gives you
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anything, you know, I don't
see that using that ip, which is,
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you know, older than most of
the target audience's grandparents, is really
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going to give you anything you know, and everybody else and their dog can
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use it too, So there's no
exclusivity and really the and you think the
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same rules would apply then to the
other stories that are coming out, because
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that this is something that's underreported in
my opinion, But there's so many other
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things like Pooh obviously, but also
Ticker is coming out and Peter Pan as
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well. Peter Pan, So Peter
Pan's been in public domain for a very
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long time. There's a new version
original, Yeah, yeah, theory original
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and Pooh. The Aamilm version of
Pooh has also been in public domain.
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Certain sorry, certain books have been
in public domain for quite some time.
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The Disney version of Pooh is not
but the original version of Pooh one of
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them, one of the early there's
Yeah, there's a lot of and again
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I think that's I think that's lovely, but I don't think it's let me
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put it this way, I wouldn't
invest, you know, twenty five to
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thirty percent of your budget in developing
a steamboat Willie attraction. Yeah, or
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like a musical or something, Yeah, yeah, it's just not going to
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work. And if you we're gonna
do it, you want to do it
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with your characters anyway, so you
can coprate it exactly exactly. It's if
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you want to do you know,
if you want to do something for a
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fringe festival, or you want to
develop a if you want to develop a
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Tiger musical that doesn't use the Fun
Fun Fun Fun fund, great, go
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for it because that you know,
you can't do the Fun Fun Fun Fun
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Fun because that's owned by Disney.
So it's a it's a really tricky road
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and I and I think that,
you know, those people who know how
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to play the game may find an
advantage to it. But I really don't
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see a whole lot of theme park
treads here. Yeah, I just don't.
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But at the same time, I'm
all about I'm all about utilizing public
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domain imagery. I'm all about utilizing
public domain music. I think that's great
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and I think it's a I think
it's a greatly underutilized opportunity for people who
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don't want to pay the rights and
royalties that they are legally required to do.
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There are a great opportunities I mean
use I use public domain imagery all
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the time, usually for scenic de
core. So it's yeah, there's advantages
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there. But I think something that's
really well known that falls into public domain,
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there's a lot of talk about it, but I don't, at least
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I don't see the advantages to using
it. Yeah, yeah, well that
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could. Those are whole other topics. I mean, I could rant for
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days about how attractions should even though
they haven't ask cap license, they should
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not be blasting that everywhere, especially
during media nights. Anyway, anyway,
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okay, our next time, because
then you just can't use any of that
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footage. I know, I'm losing
my mind about that. Just last month,
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I arrived at a place and I
had to tell the attraction and turn
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off all their music. They listened
to me, thank goodness. But anyway,
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you don't want to be don't be
that attraction. Okay, So let's
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talk about another story. This is
a round up article from a Trastion's magazine,
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and it is all the new theme
park attraction is opening in twenty twenty
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four. This is a fantastic little
resource I thought that was put together here
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that has so many attractions opening in
twenty twenty four. There are way too
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many for us to discuss on the
show, but I picked out I think
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we've each picked out a few that
we kind of just want to highlight or
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talk about why they're important. And
the first one I thought, of course,
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we've been talked about this for so
long. But the first one,
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of course, is the all the
attractions that are opening at the Metel Adventure
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Park when that opens this year.
Metel Adventure Park, of course, was
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delayed a year, and so it
should be opening at some point this year.
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There's no opening date yet. We
did talk about some of the unveilings
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from my OPA this past year.
I just think that I just love seeing
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new parks with old IPS or you
know, incorporating IPS or whatnot, like
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people trying new things basically, And
that's why I like this because it's in
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a new market, it's a new
thing people are trying. It is IPS.
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You know, we have not had
these versions of this IPS before in
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physical experiences. I just I like
this whole idea. I think if stuff
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like this goes well, you can
you'll start to you'll start to encourage other
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IP holders to want to start looking
at creating physical experiences with some of their
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IPS. And I think that that
is a great I just think that that's
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usually can be a win win for
everybody, you know, So I'm excited
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and I hope that it is executed
well, and you know, pans out
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there's just there's a you know,
it's all's going to be the execution right
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and how many people actually end up
showing up and all that. But I
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think that's why it's important. It's
an important testing ground to see as you
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know, the same as with Universal
testing out Texas and London and what I
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mean, just finding other markets and
seeing how this is going to develop.
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I think that's critical and I'm glad
they're doing it, yeah, I you
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know, And I think it's also
important to recognize that, you know,
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we've been doing a lot of doom
and gloom stories in the past, over
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the past couple of weeks, where
we've been talking about, you know,
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certain parks, certain certain attractions are
not making the bank that they that they
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want to be making, and not
making the bank that they feel they should
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be making at this point in time. And yet when you go through this
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article, there are tons upon tons
upon tons of new attractions that are are
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in prep and getting ready to open
in this year. So you know,
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it's it's it's pretty impressive to see
that there is this much vibrancy and growth
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within our industry that I think is
an excellent sign. Now there can an
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argument can be made, and Philip
and I were talking a little bit before
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the show, an argument can be
paid that says they really don't have another
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choice. You know, we've we've
got to we've got to expand or die.
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But there is another business model,
and that is to focus in on
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making what you offer the best it
can be and finding, you know,
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new and different ways. To me, new attractions are always the easiest marketing
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strategy. It's always easiest to just
say we've got a new X, Y
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or Z. We've got a new
coaster, we've got a new show,
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we've got a new overlay to one
of our existing coasters, which is happening
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in a couple of the new attractions. You know, we've we've rebuilt something
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or we've renamed something. And please, I am not turning up my nose
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at that because a perfect example from
just recently is Bush Tampa, where they
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took their old wooden roller coaster Guasi
and made it Iron Guazi and Iron Guazi
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is one of the best coasters I've
been on in the United States, So
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there there is a place for that. I also in kind of scrolling through
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these you know, Philip, you
just touched on it. You're right,
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almost the vast majority of the new
attractions are are IP based, and I
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think that is I think that is
an interesting trend. We'll see, we'll
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see, we'll see where that goes. I mean, obviously, Disney Universal,
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They're all going to play into the
IP because that's what they're all about.
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But there are some that aren't,
and that are based on just the
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fun of the park itself. Yes, exactly. So we'll see how those
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pan out. Because again, what
people, you know, everybody's like,
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well, yes, I want to
do an IP. What they don't seem
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to realize is you spend, in
most cases, unless you are in long
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term, long term agreements with the
intellectual property holders, you spend as much
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on getting the rights to add hot
wheels to the name of the ride as
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you do in building the ride itself. So and you also add layers upon
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layers upon layers of approval process,
which means that things move much slower generally
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speaking. Now that's a that's a
gross overstatement. There are exceptions that that
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will prove that rule over and over
and over again. But you do just
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have to take into consideration that all
of those things are are an issue.
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Okay, so they do come into
play. Yeah, I guess I agree
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with all that. I think.
I think I think one of the things
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I was thinking when I said that
was more like, there are a lot
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of IPS that have never done a
physical experience, and I think that I
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think as you kind of meet more
in the middle, right, as as
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more these hopefully are successful outside of
Disney Universal, then that encourage hopefully will
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encourage attractions to see that, as
you know, something they could do.
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And also it'll encourage like, you
know, new IP holders are just not
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as big eyeps, right that maybe
won't have as much costs and as much
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blah blah because they just they they
you know, the ips. You know,
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a physical experience for IPS is still
useful, so it still should be
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something they should want. And if
it's I think it could be helpful for
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an IP that doesn't have anything but
in a park that is smaller, or
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in attraction that is smaller, or
some space. And I think that I
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think there's a lot opportunity in those
two pairings, you know, like somebody
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that is not going to be as
expensive and where you have a smaller approval
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committee pairing with a smaller attraction and
amusement park together, and you could put
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something fun together, even if it's
even if it's a more regional type of
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IP type of pairing. I think
as you get more and more of that,
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that's the interesting part to me.
Yeah, I also think it's interesting
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that we're starting to see kind of
along those same lines, we're starting to
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see standalone IPS like Barbie's dream House
in Arizona. You know, these not
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connected with the theme park. This
is a this is a stand on its
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own kind of thing. So yeah, I think that that tied tying to
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things to ips are smart, but
they have to be. You can't just
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think I'm tied to an IP so
I'm guaranteed success, because that has proven
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to be wrong over and over and
over again. You're guaranteed short term success,
350
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and then you have to completely demolish
and redo in three to five years
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when that IP is no longer no
longer valid. I'm curious to see how
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things because there's a couple of different
examples of either doing a coaster that is
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something two point zero, or they're
redoing something, reinventing something. The one
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that sticks out in my mind,
mainly because of my childhood and attending Walt
355
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Disney World in the Walt Disney World
resort in Florida, is a Country Bear
356
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jamboree at Magic Kingdom getting a redo. I think this in my mind,
357
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this is the ideal pulling at the
heartstrings of while I guess I have to
358
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say it grandma and grandpa, but
certainly mom and dad to go back and
359
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see something that they experienced when they
were kids, and it's got a whole
360
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new face and it's bringing you know, this goes back to the Disney Vault
361
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mentality that they've done with the animated
films. It's it's bringing back an existing
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eyep that they've they've had and it's
not an ip of anything other than an
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attraction in their park. So,
you know, this is this is kind
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of like the This is kind of
like the let's take a Disney attraction to
365
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make a movie out of it.
This is like, let's make it.
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Let's take a Disney attraction and make
a Disney attraction out of it. Yep
367
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yeah, I agree with that.
That that leads into one of the ones
368
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I wanted to talk about too,
which was a Little Mermaid and Musical Adventure.
369
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I'm excited about that coming to I
always, of course, I always
370
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like to see live entertainment, you
know, I obviously you know, I
371
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think it's a great thing. But
exactly what Scott said, it's like a
372
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refresh of some of these old things. I think that that can be very
373
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powerful to do that. I also
am interested to see, of course,
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you've talked about the SpongeBob's Crazy Carnival
ride at Circus Circus. I'm interested in
375
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that only to see how well something
like that does in Vegas, because Vegas,
376
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you know, it's everything's a pendulum. But Vegas has been evolving back
377
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and forth, and you know,
we talked about the fear happening there,
378
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and you know, it'll be interesting
to see if a dark ride or anything
379
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like that can be successful again like
it was back in the day and better
380
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together. It picks our Palace celebration
for the same reason as the Little Mermaid
381
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like, I just like that.
You know, new parade's always fun,
382
00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:42.720
but it's fun to see new versions
of refreshes of these ips where they're able
383
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to take stuff and refresh it.
Yeah, going back to going back to
384
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SpongeBob at it in Vegas. I
think SpongeBob is a unique, a really
385
00:26:53.480 --> 00:26:59.279
unique ip, and I think it's
quite well suited for Vegas because although it
386
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:06.759
is a it does target a young
demographic. There's also you know, there's
387
00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:11.920
a bunch of people of legal drinking
age now who could get hammered and go,
388
00:27:11.039 --> 00:27:15.200
let's go ride SpongeBob. That would
be super cool. I'm guessing you're
389
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going to see some of that.
Yep, I don't know, but I'm
390
00:27:18.759 --> 00:27:21.559
guessing you're going to see some of
that. That's one of those interesting ips
391
00:27:21.559 --> 00:27:26.240
that has both a kid appeal and
a young adult appeal and and I think
392
00:27:26.279 --> 00:27:29.960
that's I think that's kind of perfect
for Vegas. Another one of the live
393
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:32.400
shows that is, you know,
just to kind of go back. Because
394
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I'm with you, Philip, I'm
thrilled when people announce live shows. You
395
00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:40.799
know, Bush Tampa Is is going
back and doing a new ice skating production
396
00:27:41.119 --> 00:27:47.720
in the Moroccan Palace Theater. So
they're they're bringing in kind of a redo
397
00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:51.000
of turn it up and turn it, culturing it, turn it up remix
398
00:27:52.000 --> 00:27:56.359
again, it's a cost effective way
to create new entertainment. Yep. Well
399
00:27:56.400 --> 00:28:02.960
and well also so I guess I
would be interesting to see if anyone has
400
00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:06.640
like research on the number of live
entertainment up. But you know, we
401
00:28:06.720 --> 00:28:10.960
talked about this a while. It's
another holdover from the pandemic, right,
402
00:28:11.000 --> 00:28:15.160
It's like live entertainment completely disappeared.
You know, in many cases you could
403
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:19.920
operate a ride, but you couldn't
operate live performances. And it's really taken
404
00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:23.240
a lot longer than I think anyone
predicted for that to come back, just
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00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:27.039
because of the damage to the ecosystem. And now I think the other problem
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00:28:27.079 --> 00:28:30.799
is well again same thing. You
have a lot of people moved moved away
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00:28:30.880 --> 00:28:33.720
or they moved different areas, and
lack of performers. But you know,
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00:28:33.799 --> 00:28:40.359
with Epic Universe now casting and like
trying to get staffed up, you know,
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00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:42.839
it's like I'd be interested to see
if anyone has numbers, but to
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00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:47.519
see like anecdotally, to me,
it feels like there are more live entertainment
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00:28:47.960 --> 00:28:52.279
and it to me, it seems
like we're getting back into the you know,
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00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:57.000
the performers, the capability of that
much live entertainment. But that may
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not be true. It could just
be like an ancdotal thing because of some
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00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:03.640
of the other you know, the
new parks opening one well, and I
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00:29:03.640 --> 00:29:08.720
can't speak I can't speak for the
entire industry, but in the Florida market
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00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:17.079
right now, the strong performers with
specific skills, dancers, stilt walkers,
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00:29:17.519 --> 00:29:22.680
acrobats, gymnasts, singers, skaters, it is their market. They can
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00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:26.279
pretty much decide who they want to
work for how often they want to work.
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00:29:26.759 --> 00:29:30.359
But I would like to put this
warning out there, and yes,
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00:29:30.440 --> 00:29:34.759
this is this is based on first
hand experience and firsthand challenges. If you
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00:29:34.880 --> 00:29:37.519
want, if you are one of
those people and you are in a market
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00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:42.160
where you can kind of control when
you work and how much you work and
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00:29:42.200 --> 00:29:45.720
how you and you can show jump
where you can like say yes, I'll
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00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:48.920
take this gig. Oh wait,
this gig offers me more money. I'm
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00:29:48.920 --> 00:29:53.599
going to go there. Be careful
taking advantage of this boon market for you,
426
00:29:55.039 --> 00:29:59.039
because if it becomes too challenging to
put on live shows, there will
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00:29:59.079 --> 00:30:02.279
be fewer and fewer of them.
Again, that's why we shifted away from
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00:30:02.279 --> 00:30:07.720
it in the first place. So
just a little warning to the performers out
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00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:11.039
there. And again I started as
a performer, so I'm not saying this
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00:30:11.119 --> 00:30:14.720
with any malice at all. Just
be aware that the more difficult you make
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00:30:14.759 --> 00:30:18.680
it for producers to do live performances
in theme parks, the fewer there will
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be in the future. So play
the long game. That's all I'm saying,
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00:30:22.960 --> 00:30:26.519
and I think that's something that's just
good advice for everybody. Play the
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00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:30.680
long game. Let's not look at
this flood rush of all of the new
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00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:34.559
attractions that are coming in and think, yes, we're back, Everything's fine.
436
00:30:34.599 --> 00:30:38.799
This is a just another part of
the pendulum swing or another part of
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00:30:38.839 --> 00:30:44.359
the cyclical pattern that we've gone through
for years and years and years. And
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00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:47.880
speaking of cyclical pattern, we are
once again at the end of our pattern.
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00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:51.000
So we have to say goodbye so
that we can come back next week
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00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:55.000
and start it all over again.
On behalf of Philipernandez with Gantam Lighting and
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00:30:55.039 --> 00:30:57.559
the Hunt of Attraction Network and myself
Scott Swinson with Scott Swinson Creative Development.
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00:30:57.759 --> 00:31:00.720
This has been green tag. I'm
park In thirty and we will see you
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next week.
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00:00:00.360 --> 00:00:04.519
From our studios in Los Angeles and
Tampa. This is green tagged at Theme
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00:00:04.559 --> 00:00:08.880
Park and thirty. I am,
as always, joined by my magnificent co
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00:00:09.000 --> 00:00:13.279
host, Scott Swinson and Scott Swinson
Creative Development. And you know what,
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Scott, The big news of the
week, of course, is that Steamboat
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Willie has entered the public domain.
We have heard it everywhere. Everyone has
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covered it, and I think we're
going to talk about it not because everyone
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else is talking about it. We're
gonna talk about it because it is a
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big thing in our industry. I
think I've seen in all our groups,
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I've seen people talking about it and
this and that and whatnot well, and
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I think it's also important that we
talk about it so that people will dig
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a little bit deeper so they actually
understand what this means, because in many
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cases, you know, it's like
people have been saying, well, now
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I can do anything I want to
with Mickey Mouse. No you can't.
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So yeah, I think there are
some great articles I'm going to link to
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in the show notes that give you
one from The Verge, which I thought
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was a fantas pastic one that really
explains how it's still like the lines are
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are still trying to be Basically,
we're going to have to wait until stuff
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ends up in court for the lines
to be drawn. Is how things work
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in America. That's just Welcome to
America, kids. That's how we don't
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know how far. We don't know
how, we don't know what how what
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we don't know what too far is
until we've gone too far. And let's
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face it, you know, Disney
will lawyer up, well, are already
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lawyered up, and will come after
you if if they feel that there is
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you know, some sort of potential
damage to their brand, or that someone
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has crossed the line or something is
someone is earning money off of something that
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they don't deserve to earn money off
of. So yeah, there are quite
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a few. I mean people were
surprised by this. I was not.
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There were several several films already were
announced with trailers ready to go. I
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mean, so people were shooting a
lot of the stuff beforehand, and we're
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just waiting for the day. Well, because it's what ninety five years is
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that the isn't the the public domain
timeline thought it was one hundred, but
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I think I think they well it
was originally sixty five then they brought it
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up to ninety five, and they
brought it up to ninety five from what
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I was told, and again please
fact check me. They brought it up
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when Mickey was originally going to go
into public domain. And we no one
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knows for certain, but we think
perhaps Disney lobby to make it longer.
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So I think it's now ninety five. But whatever it is, people are
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You know that there are people out
there with well known who are watching well
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known ips going okay, when does
it hit this hit public domain when?
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And they can they can do all
kinds of stuff. You know, you
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can you can break you know,
you can can break copyright law as long
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as you don't distribute to anybody.
And then once it goes public domain and
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you start your distribution, you know, get it out there before any lawsuits
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happen and they clarify those lines.
And now you do run the risk that
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you may be one of those lawsuits
to help clarify those lines. But if
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that's the case, that it just
gets you a ton of press. So
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you know, yeah, there's a
there is a game to this. There's
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a big game to figuring out how
to time your utilization of public domain.
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Well, The article that I linked
to from The Verge kind of outlines a
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lot of this, and it outlines
that, well, really that there's already
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been confusion about it. There's quite
there's a few people that said that that
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YouTube was still taking down some videos
and that basically Disney was still filing copyright
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on YouTube and on Tea public for
some stuff that you know, and earlier
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in the new year, and YouTube
is taking it down, et cetera,
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et cetera. So nobody has comment
on it, and I think, I
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think, really again, we're just
gonna have to wait and see exactly where
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the lines are. But basically,
I think the rule of thumb is it's
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really just Steamboat Willie, so it's
not any later. It's really like like
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the like the thing for example that
really solidified it for me is, you
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know the iconic gloves. Those don't
those appear later and those are copyrighted.
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So for example, you know,
I mean, really you it has to
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look exactly like the cartoon in Steamboat
Willie, and there can be no gloves,
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like all those subtle changes over the
years that are copyrighted. Those are
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the items that are going to get
you tripped up, that are going to
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get anybody tripp up about these things, and also referring, you know,
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making it appears in any way that
it's being endorsed or created by the Disney
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Company or like anything later they have
any of that stuff. That's like those
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are the subtle lines. And I
think that's kind of what the article is
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pointing out, is that how subtle
the lines are, exactly where the delineation
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is. It's really going to be
up to the courts later and that Disney
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is ready to start filing, and
you know, of course Disney is going
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to try and make the lines as
tight as they possibly can. That is
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their goal. Their goal is to
get things in course. Like I think
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that's how that's also how it works
in America. Right Disney is actively looking
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right now four things they can bring
to court because each case they win helps
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them get a tighter line. And
that's what we want, like we want
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to have the line directly around the
cartoon. I'm sure that's what they want
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at least they want to get that
line drawn directly around it. So you
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know, it's just it's going to
take. It's going to have a period
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of settling. But I think the
reason I think it's important for us in
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the contraction of industry. Is not
because this is dizzy and all that.
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It's really because something like this that
is so relevant to the parks has not
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happened in a while, you know. I mean there was Oswald, yeah
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that you know, there's a Wald, and that kind of gave us a
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preview. And there's one of the
Pooh, of course, which happened last
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year, and we had blood and
honey and whatnot. But I think that
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seeing how tightly these lines are going
to be drawn and exactly navigating all that
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is going to be important for any
of us that want to create parity work
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or somehow even you know, do
nods towards stuff which I actually might be
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a this might be a contrary position, but I do think there's a place
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for parody work in the attractions space. And I think that, you know,
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I was thinking, of course,
not what I was thinking about hind
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Houses, but I was like,
yeah, it would be cool to have
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a Now that Ticker is coming in
and Peter Panner is coming in, and
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of course we have steamboat Willie.
I think having a latex mass that is
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a Winnie the Pooh thing, but
like a zombie or like, you know,
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like an evil version of that.
I think that kind of stuff would
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be great. I think, like
a I think you could do a steamboat
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Willy haunted house. That could be
fantastic and and kind of ride ride the
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wave of enthusiasm. I think these
are opportunities basically for you to create stuff
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again, you know, if it's
done in the right way. And that's
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why this is all important. It's
all important because we're watching to see how
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tightly the lines are drawn. It
gives us a guidebook. And then as
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more and more of the more contemporary
ips start dropping over the next few years,
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there's quite a few that are coming
out in a few years. You
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know, it'll help us have a
playbook for time, even even if you're
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just writing it, writing it into
your shows. If you have a comedy
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show and you're writing stuff into it, or you want to do a skater
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here there. I think there are
a lot of opportunities to capture these cultural
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moments at your attraction, and I
think you should be able to do well.
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And it's interesting that you say on
a attraction because on January second of
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this year, Variety posted the headline
Steamboat Willy horror film announced as a Mickey
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Mouse Enter's public domain. Yes,
so there were two. There were two
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horror films that have that were ready
to go, so you know, it
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was one of those situations where they
were they were queued up and ready to
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hit that that horror film. And
I think that, you know, I
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think the reason I don't I don't
really believe that people are just that sadistic
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that they want to tear down an
iconic character. But I do think that,
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you know, if you're going to
get attention, you want to go
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as far from the original intent of
the character as possible. And Steamboat Willie
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becoming a horror film, yeah,
I think is I think is very interesting
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and I think it I think they
were, you know, ready to go
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for it. And again, this
may be one of those first uh first
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lawsuits that it sets the parameters a
bit more and whoever's doing it. It's
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interesting because if you if you look
at even the announcement in one of the
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in one of the flavor images for
the horror film, Mickey's wearing gloves.
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So I think there's I think there's
going to be you know, you know,
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there's going to be a lawyer looking
at that going. That's not steamboat
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Willie Mickey. That is post steamboat
Willie Mickey, which is not in public
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domain yet you can't use it.
Yeah. Yeah, so yeah, you
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know, I think I think you're
right. I think there is a place
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for parody, and parody to a
certain extent is protected. You know,
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there is a there is a parody
exemption for these kinds of things. But
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there's also it's also something that we
have to take into consideration and really keep
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an eye on because so many of
the what we're once thought of as Evergreen
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00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:07.159
Eye pas will in you know,
maybe not my lifetime, but but some
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00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:13.000
of our listeners lifetimes come into public
domain and you're gonna have to either defend
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00:09:13.000 --> 00:09:18.960
them or be ready to, you
know, find new ways to to reinvent
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them. I honestly think, and
I could be wrong here, but I
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honestly think that's why Mickey has changed
so much over the years. You know,
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00:09:24.919 --> 00:09:28.440
there used to be a great poster
that you could get at every at
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every Disney theme park which had the
various ages of Mickey and how he was,
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how he changed each year. So
with that alone, they've got Mickey
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protected, A form of Mickey protected
forever, you know, because he keep
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they keep reinventing him. It's sort
of like it's sort of like with classic
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00:09:52.240 --> 00:09:54.039
rock bands. I don't know whether
you've paid any attention to this, but
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00:09:54.360 --> 00:09:58.519
with classic rock bands, this is
more about getting the royalties for it.
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00:09:58.559 --> 00:10:03.200
But when classic rock bands change their
lineup, and you know, there are
149
00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:07.440
bands out there that have no original
members in them but are still someone in
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00:10:07.519 --> 00:10:11.840
the band still owns the name which
they purchased from one of the last original
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00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:15.360
members. I think Foreigner is one
of them, if I'm not mistaken.
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00:10:15.559 --> 00:10:18.960
But they've gone back and re recorded
everything, all of the old classics so
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00:10:20.159 --> 00:10:24.559
that they can get the royalties for
it, and it doesn't go back to
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00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:28.840
the original band or the families of
the original band. So if you do
155
00:10:28.919 --> 00:10:31.600
have if you do have a strong
IP that is older, you know,
156
00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:37.000
perhaps it is time to reinvent it, tweak it, go back to the
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00:10:37.000 --> 00:10:39.399
the original IP holder if you're not
the original IP holder, and see if
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00:10:39.399 --> 00:10:41.919
there's a way that you can make
it so that you can help protect it
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00:10:43.320 --> 00:10:46.759
from We'll call it the steamboat WILLI
factor. You know, well, we
160
00:10:46.919 --> 00:10:52.559
talked about it when our Taylor kind
of half sojourn but that's what Taylor did
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00:10:52.759 --> 00:10:56.879
and has been doing as well to
re record all of those masters the original.
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00:10:56.919 --> 00:11:03.240
But I'm wondering, Scott, I
guess what do you think that attraction
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should be looking at this at all? I mean, like, you know,
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because obviously your perspective is someone like
my perspective obviously comes from a media
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person, a creator, and so
obviously I'm like, oh, it'd be
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cool to like for just me,
right, it'd be cool for me or
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for you know, to do a
like I could see myself doing a steamboat
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Willie almost like re enactment with some
people and kind of adding some horror elements
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to it and kind of making it
fun, you know, Like I yeah,
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I'm I'm excited for this. I'm
already thinking about it. I was
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even thinking of like, oh,
maybe we should try and commission a tigger
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like costume or like a silicon mask
and do like a little type of thing.
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But I want to know from your
perspective as a writer, you have
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written for so many thing parts and
so many shows and whatnot, Like,
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does this like is this important at
all for you? Guys? I mean,
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could you see this impacting it all? Or are you already protected by
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parity for the most part. When
you're using stuff in like the hanging or
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something, so it doesn't matter.
I'm usually I'm I'm usually protected under the
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parody. I mean, it's if
it has to be at least a sixty
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percent, you know, difference,
same with music, that sort of thing,
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to have it to have it be
considered either original or or parody.
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I mean, I can't go out
there and write something and call it,
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you know, Ricky Rat and and
it's the Ricky Rat Playtime Show unless I
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can prove, if if questioned,
that it is one hundred percent parody and
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that you know, it does not
look it only looks forty percent like the
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characters that are that are being held, you know with The only way I
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see this to be used is parody, which is what we're already using.
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I think it's going to be a
gimmick. I think there's a I really
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and I'm sorry I hate to sound
like this guy, but I think this
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has much to do about very little. I just think that we need to
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be like attraction set at is this
anyway, because you know, it goes
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against developing your own IP and if
anything, it would just be like a
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gimmicky thing they would do together because
nobody can own it now. I mean
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public domain means yes, you can
use it, and so can the park
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across the street, and so can
the park which with a bigger budget down
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town, and so can the you
know. So it really doesn't give you
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any leverage from an IP standpoint,
because you can't really own it. It's
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public domain. You can use it, but so can everybody else. It's
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kind of like it's kind of like
public domain music. I mean, quite
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often in more budget television commercials you
will hear a similar tune because they can't
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own it. They can't say you
can't use this because they just bought it
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from a from a toonhouse, you
know, they bought it with a subscription
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to tune Pocket or whatever, and
based on that subscription, they can use
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it however they wish. So you
can't really own it. So I don't
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really see an advantage to it.
I think where it's really going to be
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interesting is to see how many daycare
centers are now called Steamboat Willie Daycare,
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you know, because again it's it's
not I don't see that it gives you
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anything, you know, I don't
see that using that ip, which is,
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you know, older than most of
the target audience's grandparents, is really
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going to give you anything you know, and everybody else and their dog can
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use it too, So there's no
exclusivity and really the and you think the
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same rules would apply then to the
other stories that are coming out, because
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that this is something that's underreported in
my opinion, But there's so many other
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things like Pooh obviously, but also
Ticker is coming out and Peter Pan as
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well. Peter Pan, So Peter
Pan's been in public domain for a very
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long time. There's a new version
original, Yeah, yeah, theory original
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and Pooh. The Aamilm version of
Pooh has also been in public domain.
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Certain sorry, certain books have been
in public domain for quite some time.
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The Disney version of Pooh is not
but the original version of Pooh one of
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them, one of the early there's
Yeah, there's a lot of and again
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I think that's I think that's lovely, but I don't think it's let me
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put it this way, I wouldn't
invest, you know, twenty five to
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thirty percent of your budget in developing
a steamboat Willie attraction. Yeah, or
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like a musical or something, Yeah, yeah, it's just not going to
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work. And if you we're gonna
do it, you want to do it
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with your characters anyway, so you
can coprate it exactly exactly. It's if
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you want to do you know,
if you want to do something for a
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fringe festival, or you want to
develop a if you want to develop a
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Tiger musical that doesn't use the Fun
Fun Fun Fun fund, great, go
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for it because that you know,
you can't do the Fun Fun Fun Fun
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Fun because that's owned by Disney.
So it's a it's a really tricky road
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and I and I think that,
you know, those people who know how
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to play the game may find an
advantage to it. But I really don't
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see a whole lot of theme park
treads here. Yeah, I just don't.
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But at the same time, I'm
all about I'm all about utilizing public
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domain imagery. I'm all about utilizing
public domain music. I think that's great
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and I think it's a I think
it's a greatly underutilized opportunity for people who
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don't want to pay the rights and
royalties that they are legally required to do.
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There are a great opportunities I mean
use I use public domain imagery all
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the time, usually for scenic de
core. So it's yeah, there's advantages
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there. But I think something that's
really well known that falls into public domain,
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there's a lot of talk about it, but I don't, at least
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I don't see the advantages to using
it. Yeah, yeah, well that
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could. Those are whole other topics. I mean, I could rant for
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days about how attractions should even though
they haven't ask cap license, they should
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not be blasting that everywhere, especially
during media nights. Anyway, anyway,
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okay, our next time, because
then you just can't use any of that
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footage. I know, I'm losing
my mind about that. Just last month,
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I arrived at a place and I
had to tell the attraction and turn
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off all their music. They listened
to me, thank goodness. But anyway,
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you don't want to be don't be
that attraction. Okay, So let's
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talk about another story. This is
a round up article from a Trastion's magazine,
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and it is all the new theme
park attraction is opening in twenty twenty
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four. This is a fantastic little
resource I thought that was put together here
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that has so many attractions opening in
twenty twenty four. There are way too
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many for us to discuss on the
show, but I picked out I think
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we've each picked out a few that
we kind of just want to highlight or
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talk about why they're important. And
the first one I thought, of course,
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we've been talked about this for so
long. But the first one,
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of course, is the all the
attractions that are opening at the Metel Adventure
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Park when that opens this year.
Metel Adventure Park, of course, was
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delayed a year, and so it
should be opening at some point this year.
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There's no opening date yet. We
did talk about some of the unveilings
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from my OPA this past year.
I just think that I just love seeing
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new parks with old IPS or you
know, incorporating IPS or whatnot, like
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people trying new things basically, And
that's why I like this because it's in
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a new market, it's a new
thing people are trying. It is IPS.
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You know, we have not had
these versions of this IPS before in
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physical experiences. I just I like
this whole idea. I think if stuff
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like this goes well, you can
you'll start to you'll start to encourage other
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IP holders to want to start looking
at creating physical experiences with some of their
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IPS. And I think that that
is a great I just think that that's
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usually can be a win win for
everybody, you know, So I'm excited
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and I hope that it is executed
well, and you know, pans out
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there's just there's a you know,
it's all's going to be the execution right
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and how many people actually end up
showing up and all that. But I
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think that's why it's important. It's
an important testing ground to see as you
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know, the same as with Universal
testing out Texas and London and what I
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mean, just finding other markets and
seeing how this is going to develop.
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I think that's critical and I'm glad
they're doing it, yeah, I you
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know, And I think it's also
important to recognize that, you know,
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we've been doing a lot of doom
and gloom stories in the past, over
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the past couple of weeks, where
we've been talking about, you know,
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certain parks, certain certain attractions are
not making the bank that they that they
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want to be making, and not
making the bank that they feel they should
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be making at this point in time. And yet when you go through this
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article, there are tons upon tons
upon tons of new attractions that are are
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in prep and getting ready to open
in this year. So you know,
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it's it's it's pretty impressive to see
that there is this much vibrancy and growth
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within our industry that I think is
an excellent sign. Now there can an
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argument can be made, and Philip
and I were talking a little bit before
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the show, an argument can be
paid that says they really don't have another
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choice. You know, we've we've
got to we've got to expand or die.
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But there is another business model,
and that is to focus in on
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making what you offer the best it
can be and finding, you know,
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new and different ways. To me, new attractions are always the easiest marketing
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strategy. It's always easiest to just
say we've got a new X, Y
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or Z. We've got a new
coaster, we've got a new show,
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we've got a new overlay to one
of our existing coasters, which is happening
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in a couple of the new attractions. You know, we've we've rebuilt something
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or we've renamed something. And please, I am not turning up my nose
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at that because a perfect example from
just recently is Bush Tampa, where they
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took their old wooden roller coaster Guasi
and made it Iron Guazi and Iron Guazi
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is one of the best coasters I've
been on in the United States, So
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there there is a place for that. I also in kind of scrolling through
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these you know, Philip, you
just touched on it. You're right,
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almost the vast majority of the new
attractions are are IP based, and I
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think that is I think that is
an interesting trend. We'll see, we'll
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see, we'll see where that goes. I mean, obviously, Disney Universal,
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They're all going to play into the
IP because that's what they're all about.
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But there are some that aren't,
and that are based on just the
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fun of the park itself. Yes, exactly. So we'll see how those
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pan out. Because again, what
people, you know, everybody's like,
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well, yes, I want to
do an IP. What they don't seem
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to realize is you spend, in
most cases, unless you are in long
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term, long term agreements with the
intellectual property holders, you spend as much
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on getting the rights to add hot
wheels to the name of the ride as
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you do in building the ride itself. So and you also add layers upon
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layers upon layers of approval process,
which means that things move much slower generally
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speaking. Now that's a that's a
gross overstatement. There are exceptions that that
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will prove that rule over and over
and over again. But you do just
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have to take into consideration that all
of those things are are an issue.
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Okay, so they do come into
play. Yeah, I guess I agree
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with all that. I think.
I think I think one of the things
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I was thinking when I said that
was more like, there are a lot
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of IPS that have never done a
physical experience, and I think that I
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think as you kind of meet more
in the middle, right, as as
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more these hopefully are successful outside of
Disney Universal, then that encourage hopefully will
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encourage attractions to see that, as
you know, something they could do.
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And also it'll encourage like, you
know, new IP holders are just not
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as big eyeps, right that maybe
won't have as much costs and as much
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blah blah because they just they they
you know, the ips. You know,
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a physical experience for IPS is still
useful, so it still should be
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something they should want. And if
it's I think it could be helpful for
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an IP that doesn't have anything but
in a park that is smaller, or
336
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in attraction that is smaller, or
some space. And I think that I
337
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think there's a lot opportunity in those
two pairings, you know, like somebody
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that is not going to be as
expensive and where you have a smaller approval
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committee pairing with a smaller attraction and
amusement park together, and you could put
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something fun together, even if it's
even if it's a more regional type of
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IP type of pairing. I think
as you get more and more of that,
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that's the interesting part to me.
Yeah, I also think it's interesting
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that we're starting to see kind of
along those same lines, we're starting to
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see standalone IPS like Barbie's dream House
in Arizona. You know, these not
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connected with the theme park. This
is a this is a stand on its
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own kind of thing. So yeah, I think that that tied tying to
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things to ips are smart, but
they have to be. You can't just
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think I'm tied to an IP so
I'm guaranteed success, because that has proven
349
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to be wrong over and over and
over again. You're guaranteed short term success,
350
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and then you have to completely demolish
and redo in three to five years
351
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when that IP is no longer no
longer valid. I'm curious to see how
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things because there's a couple of different
examples of either doing a coaster that is
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something two point zero, or they're
redoing something, reinventing something. The one
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that sticks out in my mind,
mainly because of my childhood and attending Walt
355
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Disney World in the Walt Disney World
resort in Florida, is a Country Bear
356
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jamboree at Magic Kingdom getting a redo. I think this in my mind,
357
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this is the ideal pulling at the
heartstrings of while I guess I have to
358
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say it grandma and grandpa, but
certainly mom and dad to go back and
359
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see something that they experienced when they
were kids, and it's got a whole
360
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new face and it's bringing you know, this goes back to the Disney Vault
361
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mentality that they've done with the animated
films. It's it's bringing back an existing
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eyep that they've they've had and it's
not an ip of anything other than an
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attraction in their park. So,
you know, this is this is kind
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of like the This is kind of
like the let's take a Disney attraction to
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make a movie out of it.
This is like, let's make it.
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Let's take a Disney attraction and make
a Disney attraction out of it. Yep
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yeah, I agree with that.
That that leads into one of the ones
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I wanted to talk about too,
which was a Little Mermaid and Musical Adventure.
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I'm excited about that coming to I
always, of course, I always
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like to see live entertainment, you
know, I obviously you know, I
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think it's a great thing. But
exactly what Scott said, it's like a
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refresh of some of these old things. I think that that can be very
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powerful to do that. I also
am interested to see, of course,
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you've talked about the SpongeBob's Crazy Carnival
ride at Circus Circus. I'm interested in
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that only to see how well something
like that does in Vegas, because Vegas,
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you know, it's everything's a pendulum. But Vegas has been evolving back
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and forth, and you know,
we talked about the fear happening there,
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and you know, it'll be interesting
to see if a dark ride or anything
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like that can be successful again like
it was back in the day and better
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together. It picks our Palace celebration
for the same reason as the Little Mermaid
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like, I just like that.
You know, new parade's always fun,
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but it's fun to see new versions
of refreshes of these ips where they're able
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to take stuff and refresh it.
Yeah, going back to going back to
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SpongeBob at it in Vegas. I
think SpongeBob is a unique, a really
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unique ip, and I think it's
quite well suited for Vegas because although it
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is a it does target a young
demographic. There's also you know, there's
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a bunch of people of legal drinking
age now who could get hammered and go,
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let's go ride SpongeBob. That would
be super cool. I'm guessing you're
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going to see some of that.
Yep, I don't know, but I'm
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guessing you're going to see some of
that. That's one of those interesting ips
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that has both a kid appeal and
a young adult appeal and and I think
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that's I think that's kind of perfect
for Vegas. Another one of the live
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shows that is, you know,
just to kind of go back. Because
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I'm with you, Philip, I'm
thrilled when people announce live shows. You
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know, Bush Tampa Is is going
back and doing a new ice skating production
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in the Moroccan Palace Theater. So
they're they're bringing in kind of a redo
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of turn it up and turn it, culturing it, turn it up remix
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again, it's a cost effective way
to create new entertainment. Yep. Well
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and well also so I guess I
would be interesting to see if anyone has
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like research on the number of live
entertainment up. But you know, we
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talked about this a while. It's
another holdover from the pandemic, right,
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It's like live entertainment completely disappeared.
You know, in many cases you could
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operate a ride, but you couldn't
operate live performances. And it's really taken
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a lot longer than I think anyone
predicted for that to come back, just
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because of the damage to the ecosystem. And now I think the other problem
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is well again same thing. You
have a lot of people moved moved away
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or they moved different areas, and
lack of performers. But you know,
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with Epic Universe now casting and like
trying to get staffed up, you know,
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it's like I'd be interested to see
if anyone has numbers, but to
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see like anecdotally, to me,
it feels like there are more live entertainment
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and it to me, it seems
like we're getting back into the you know,
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the performers, the capability of that
much live entertainment. But that may
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not be true. It could just
be like an ancdotal thing because of some
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of the other you know, the
new parks opening one well, and I
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can't speak I can't speak for the
entire industry, but in the Florida market
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right now, the strong performers with
specific skills, dancers, stilt walkers,
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acrobats, gymnasts, singers, skaters, it is their market. They can
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pretty much decide who they want to
work for how often they want to work.
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But I would like to put this
warning out there, and yes,
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this is this is based on first
hand experience and firsthand challenges. If you
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want, if you are one of
those people and you are in a market
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where you can kind of control when
you work and how much you work and
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how you and you can show jump
where you can like say yes, I'll
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take this gig. Oh wait,
this gig offers me more money. I'm
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going to go there. Be careful
taking advantage of this boon market for you,
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because if it becomes too challenging to
put on live shows, there will
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be fewer and fewer of them.
Again, that's why we shifted away from
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it in the first place. So
just a little warning to the performers out
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there. And again I started as
a performer, so I'm not saying this
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with any malice at all. Just
be aware that the more difficult you make
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it for producers to do live performances
in theme parks, the fewer there will
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be in the future. So play
the long game. That's all I'm saying,
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and I think that's something that's just
good advice for everybody. Play the
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long game. Let's not look at
this flood rush of all of the new
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attractions that are coming in and think, yes, we're back, Everything's fine.
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This is a just another part of
the pendulum swing or another part of
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the cyclical pattern that we've gone through
for years and years and years. And
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speaking of cyclical pattern, we are
once again at the end of our pattern.
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So we have to say goodbye so
that we can come back next week
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and start it all over again.
On behalf of Philipernandez with Gantam Lighting and
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the Hunt of Attraction Network and myself
Scott Swinson with Scott Swinson Creative Development.
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This has been green tag. I'm
park In thirty and we will see you
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next week.
