Staffing Struggles in the Themed Entertainment Industry

WEBVTT

1
00:00:00.920 --> 00:00:06.000
Okay from our studios in Detroit and
Tampa. This is Green tag them Park

2
00:00:06.000 --> 00:00:10.640
and thirty. I'm Philip and I'm
joined as always by Scott Swinson a Scott

3
00:00:10.679 --> 00:00:14.080
Swinson cret Development. Oh my goodness, hello Scott. It is this is

4
00:00:14.080 --> 00:00:21.600
gonna count as our Halloween special because
it is is Halloween Eve here with us,

5
00:00:21.600 --> 00:00:24.039
and I think we are both in
the midst of it. You have

6
00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:26.800
a show on Halloween. It's a
Halloween. I don't know, it's close

7
00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:30.679
enough to Halloween. It's whatever,
that's tween. It's eve eve of Halloween.

8
00:00:31.039 --> 00:00:35.079
Yes, you have a show on
Halloween. And of course I'm I'm

9
00:00:35.119 --> 00:00:40.240
still working at a client right now. I'm working at a client and also

10
00:00:40.359 --> 00:00:43.079
trying to edit videos and whatnot.
So it's it's still Halloween for us.

11
00:00:43.159 --> 00:00:45.840
Yeah, and I've yeah, it
is. I mean, this is We've

12
00:00:45.880 --> 00:00:48.679
been I've been talking with some friends
of mine who who work in the retail

13
00:00:48.719 --> 00:00:53.880
side of the halloween industry, and
it's interesting because they're they're all they're all

14
00:00:53.920 --> 00:00:57.479
sort of some of them who are
new to the new to the the industry

15
00:00:57.640 --> 00:01:00.520
are gearing up because's like, oh, it's the last week again to buy

16
00:01:00.560 --> 00:01:03.079
costumes before Halloween, and everybody who's
been there before is like, nope,

17
00:01:03.120 --> 00:01:06.760
this is the last minute. Oh
my god, I'm going to be Bob

18
00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:11.280
Ross moment because they have nothing else
to select from. Because the main this

19
00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:17.359
weekend, you know, this past
this past weekend was really the main push

20
00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:23.280
of of all of the big Halloween
parties and uh and attendance. You know,

21
00:01:23.400 --> 00:01:25.640
this is this is the the weekend. This is the thing that people

22
00:01:25.680 --> 00:01:27.000
forget. Everybody thinks that, oh, I want to go to a haunted

23
00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:32.200
attraction on on Halloween night. If
you go to a Halloween attraction on Hollow

24
00:01:32.280 --> 00:01:37.799
on Halloween night, you're probably walking
around with very very few people, and

25
00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:42.480
especially when Halloween Night falls on a
Tuesday. So this You're absolutely right,

26
00:01:42.519 --> 00:01:45.840
Philip. We are we are in
Halloween, and in fact, by the

27
00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:49.560
time people see this, it will
be, in my opinion, past Halloween.

28
00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:53.239
Yeah. Yes, I do have
a show on Halloween Night, but

29
00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:59.200
that's just a live theater piece.
I agree with that. Some data that

30
00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:04.159
that came out this past week is
that people are going to spend more.

31
00:02:04.519 --> 00:02:07.000
Americans will spend more on Halloween this
year. And you know, the Halloween

32
00:02:07.040 --> 00:02:08.919
community got very excited about that,
which they should be, rightfully, but

33
00:02:09.560 --> 00:02:15.439
what you just said kind of underscores
that most people still don't go to hunted

34
00:02:15.479 --> 00:02:17.879
houses as their choice of spending.
They will go to parties, or they

35
00:02:17.879 --> 00:02:22.120
will you know, buy costumes,
you know, So there's still a lot

36
00:02:22.159 --> 00:02:27.280
of opportunity for haunted houses to get
a bigger piece of that pie, to

37
00:02:27.319 --> 00:02:30.240
say, hey, instead of going
to this party, or in addition to

38
00:02:30.280 --> 00:02:32.439
going to the party, or before
the party, you should come to a

39
00:02:32.479 --> 00:02:36.080
haunted house, or you should do
these things. And a lot of haunted

40
00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:40.039
houses are not open even on the
Halloween, like you said this literally as

41
00:02:40.080 --> 00:02:45.479
a recording, will be their last
day for a lot of haunted houses unless

42
00:02:45.520 --> 00:02:51.479
you are really big or established,
or you have infrastructure or whatnot. And

43
00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:55.520
even whether I know, Tearing the
Corn for example, closed this past weekend

44
00:02:55.520 --> 00:02:59.879
and they're not gonna they're done for
the season because they have a storm coming

45
00:02:59.879 --> 00:03:04.479
in and it's a Tuesday, so
they're closing. But of course, on

46
00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:07.840
the flip side, you have Universal, which we talked about previously, Universal

47
00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:10.840
Orlando that it's going to be open
all through next week, so every day

48
00:03:12.840 --> 00:03:16.879
this next week, every day Halloween
and then beyond some so well and with

49
00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:22.039
something like with something like Coronites,
they have the opportunity because they can pick

50
00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:25.240
up excuse me, they can pick
up either people who are returning to see

51
00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:29.199
the rest of the haunts that they
missed when they were there the first time,

52
00:03:29.759 --> 00:03:30.960
or they can get the people who
are like, I'm not going to

53
00:03:31.000 --> 00:03:35.120
that it's way too crowded, and
now they have an opportunity to go when

54
00:03:35.159 --> 00:03:38.759
it's less crowded. So yeah,
that makes sense. But for the majority

55
00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:45.000
of the either independent or smaller projects, it makes no sense. People won't

56
00:03:45.000 --> 00:03:50.479
go. Yeah, well that ties
in, I think to the story that

57
00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:53.759
we're going to talk about today,
the main news story. So last weekend,

58
00:03:53.759 --> 00:03:58.280
of course, as we just mentioned, really was the big This weekend

59
00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:03.599
we're in currently and weekend we're the
big weekends for haunted houses, and of

60
00:04:03.639 --> 00:04:10.520
course that means that it's also competition
for other things like parties, which talked

61
00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:14.240
about, which means staffing is a
problem, because you will have your staff

62
00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:16.759
that will either the good ones will
have told you in advance that they have

63
00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:20.040
a Halloween party or a commitment with
family where they have to watch the kids

64
00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:24.680
or whatever, and they will have
scheduled with you. But the rest of

65
00:04:24.720 --> 00:04:28.279
them will not and they will just
not show up or call off. And

66
00:04:29.720 --> 00:04:33.160
I know firsthand. For example,
the Haunt I'm at we had almost fifty

67
00:04:33.199 --> 00:04:38.920
percent of our actors were called off
for the Saturday, which is the biggest

68
00:04:39.439 --> 00:04:42.600
day. And of course then you're
sitting back in the green room and you

69
00:04:42.639 --> 00:04:46.600
are calling friends and friends of friends, and you know, the neighbors,

70
00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:49.160
and you know, bring the whole
family, will watch the kids in the

71
00:04:49.199 --> 00:04:53.639
makeup room. You know, you
do whatever you can to kind of fill

72
00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:59.720
those spots. So that ties into
our news item which came out this week,

73
00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:02.879
which is what haunts the Haunted House
industry, And it was reported by

74
00:05:03.000 --> 00:05:09.720
Sabri Brenishaw for Marketplace, which is
a show that airs on American public media

75
00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:15.240
and on MPR. And I'm actually
one of the sources in this news article,

76
00:05:15.279 --> 00:05:17.600
so I'm in this. It's very
exciting. It's a great little roundup,

77
00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:20.839
you know, kind of of the
challenges that haunted houses face. And

78
00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:26.920
of course they talk about the concept
of how scary is too scary and you

79
00:05:26.959 --> 00:05:30.319
know what's going on with that,
which we've talked about a lot. And

80
00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:34.399
they also talk about getting too extreme
or not and they talk about staffing,

81
00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:41.160
and so I'm in here with a
few other people and I'll put it in

82
00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:43.959
the show notes. You can read
the entire listen to the entire thing because

83
00:05:43.959 --> 00:05:47.279
it's audio and text. But we
wanted to hone in on specifically the staffing

84
00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:53.199
section and the supply chain section I
mentioned in here, which we've talked about.

85
00:05:53.199 --> 00:05:57.079
On the supply chain, which is
still a problem, you know,

86
00:05:57.399 --> 00:06:01.199
even until now, some haunts are
not do not have their full capability due

87
00:06:01.240 --> 00:06:06.879
to supply chain for the small vendors, but also staffing, which we just

88
00:06:06.920 --> 00:06:10.279
talked about. You know, it's
continues to be an issue, and I

89
00:06:10.319 --> 00:06:13.759
think for those people that a lot
of our listeners, it is going to

90
00:06:13.759 --> 00:06:17.199
continue to be an issue because what's
right around the corner is Christmas season,

91
00:06:17.600 --> 00:06:20.439
and if you had issues with staffing
for Halloween, they are going to continue

92
00:06:20.519 --> 00:06:26.920
and persist through Christmas. And Scott, you are an expert in this field,

93
00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:30.920
You've taught classes on it, You've
done podcasts on this topic, and

94
00:06:30.959 --> 00:06:36.399
I've reported and talked to haunts all
over and having working right now with an

95
00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:42.399
attraction, I'm like seeing it firsthand, you know, and it strikes me

96
00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:46.000
just at this attraction that I'm at
right now. It strikes me that actors

97
00:06:46.040 --> 00:06:49.199
are still treated kind of at the
bottom of the totem pole. You know,

98
00:06:49.279 --> 00:06:53.759
they have to It's kind of like
they're like, get to your get

99
00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:55.879
in makeup, and then get to
your spot, and then sit in your

100
00:06:55.879 --> 00:06:58.439
spot and hopefully you get a break. But you sit there and you just

101
00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:02.480
pop out or do whatever you do
for six hours on busy nights repeatedly and

102
00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:09.120
deal with crazy customers, and last
night an instance of somebody actually pain in

103
00:07:09.199 --> 00:07:15.360
the haunt in an area. So, you know, but it strikes me

104
00:07:15.439 --> 00:07:21.720
that that, you know, it's
a very difficult job to do, and

105
00:07:21.759 --> 00:07:27.199
that's also the thing that we really
need to power our attractions. And I'm

106
00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:30.519
still not sure that we have figured
out not just the demand the supply as

107
00:07:30.519 --> 00:07:35.120
in people that want to want to
do this job, but also how are

108
00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:39.519
we going to you know, the
compensation conversation, which we've also talked about,

109
00:07:39.519 --> 00:07:43.600
but phecifically about compensation in this in
this aspect, So I wanted to

110
00:07:43.600 --> 00:07:46.480
get your thoughts on that. Well. I think it's important to recognize that,

111
00:07:46.560 --> 00:07:49.120
first of all, staffing is not
just a problem for Halloween, and

112
00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:53.360
that's why I think it's so important
that we're talking about it now. Staffing

113
00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:57.040
for Christmas is equally as challenging pretty
much with every one of the projects that

114
00:07:57.079 --> 00:08:01.199
I'm working on. But I want
to back it up a little bit because

115
00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:03.639
you know, as you just said, you get to this, you get

116
00:08:03.639 --> 00:08:07.439
to this point where you're calling in
anybody who happens to be on your phone

117
00:08:07.480 --> 00:08:11.399
to try to come in and fill
in a role. I think that's dangerous

118
00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:16.000
as hell, quite honestly, because
what that means is they have zero training.

119
00:08:16.439 --> 00:08:20.000
It reduces not only the quality of
the performance you get, but also

120
00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:26.000
the safety and operation of the attraction
in the event itself. So let's let's

121
00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:28.800
back up. And you know,
am I saying it's too late for Christmas?

122
00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:33.399
Kind of yes, but I hear
things that I want you to at

123
00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:35.440
least keep in mind as we move
forward, because Christmas events, you know,

124
00:08:37.080 --> 00:08:43.120
in some places, Christmas events don't
start until untill actually December, and

125
00:08:43.240 --> 00:08:46.559
others there is a week of downtime
and then they open their Christmas event.

126
00:08:46.600 --> 00:08:50.440
You know, it's just the way
it is. I think we have to

127
00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:54.360
recognize that when we're talking about staffing, and especially now, because I think

128
00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:56.799
the reason this is or one of
the reasons this is an issue now is

129
00:08:58.159 --> 00:09:05.120
we have a generation of younger potential
employees, because let's face it, that's

130
00:09:05.320 --> 00:09:11.240
who a lot of the haunted attractions
and those people who are in what I

131
00:09:11.279 --> 00:09:13.840
call the gig culture. You know, they have the they did go from

132
00:09:13.879 --> 00:09:18.080
one one gig to the next to
the next. Usually by the time people

133
00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:20.679
get my age, they get smart
enough not to do that. I haven't,

134
00:09:20.759 --> 00:09:26.159
but you know, that's just the
way it is. But having gone

135
00:09:26.159 --> 00:09:30.399
through COVID, if you think about
it, the people who are in the

136
00:09:30.440 --> 00:09:37.159
workforce now in that that younger adult
demographic went through either two or three years

137
00:09:37.159 --> 00:09:41.200
of high school or two or three
years of college completely virtually, and things

138
00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:43.679
would change randomly. I don't want
to blame everything on COVID, but I

139
00:09:43.759 --> 00:09:48.080
do think this is one of those
things that I'm not sure we anticipated.

140
00:09:48.879 --> 00:09:54.120
I think that because nothing was ever
really set in stone and we never really

141
00:09:54.159 --> 00:09:58.120
knew what was going on. We
have people who, during very formative years,

142
00:09:58.519 --> 00:10:01.639
have have been trained to believe that, well, things are just going

143
00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:05.360
to change. So I really don't
need to commit that much. One of

144
00:10:05.399 --> 00:10:09.519
the biggest problems that I've seen with
staffing is people will audition or reach out

145
00:10:09.559 --> 00:10:13.159
and be interested and be yes,
yes, yes, yes, yes,

146
00:10:13.200 --> 00:10:16.639
and the moment you offer them a
position, they ghost you. And I

147
00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:18.919
think that they won't even call you
and say no, I'm sorry, I

148
00:10:18.919 --> 00:10:20.440
don't want this, I don't want
this position, or I can't take this

149
00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:24.440
position. They just won't show up
for it. And I can't help but

150
00:10:24.480 --> 00:10:33.200
think that this training came from going
through a very uncertain time of the pandemic.

151
00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:35.440
You know, it would be like, yes, we're going to reopen,

152
00:10:35.480 --> 00:10:37.000
No, we're not going to reopen. We're going to plan for this,

153
00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:39.159
but then it's not going to happen
because of X, Y or Z.

154
00:10:41.039 --> 00:10:46.960
So I think we have to first
of all recognize and not just shy

155
00:10:46.039 --> 00:10:50.120
away from and not use the old
line. Well, these younger kids,

156
00:10:50.159 --> 00:10:54.080
they don't have any sense of commitment. Well they've been raised not to have

157
00:10:54.159 --> 00:10:56.240
a sense of commitment because we've failed
them, you know, the situation has

158
00:10:56.320 --> 00:11:00.799
failed them as far as being able
to commit to here's what's going to happen.

159
00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:01.639
It's gonna happen this way, this
way, this way, this way.

160
00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:05.799
So they're used to that, they're
used to being able to just say,

161
00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:09.759
oh, I'm not going to really
put too much investment in it because

162
00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:13.080
it's just going to go away.
So what that means for people who are

163
00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:16.480
trying to hire, in my opinion, is that we really really need to

164
00:11:16.519 --> 00:11:22.039
focus on investing in them early on
in the process, making certain that they

165
00:11:22.039 --> 00:11:24.919
are given the training that they need, they are given the tools that they

166
00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:28.200
need to do their jobs well.
And you notice I have not even talked

167
00:11:28.200 --> 00:11:33.799
about compensation yet. Compensation is important, but compensation is not. You can

168
00:11:33.879 --> 00:11:37.360
double somebody's salary and it's not going
to bring them in if they don't want

169
00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:39.919
to show up because again, part
time, seasonal job, it's gig.

170
00:11:41.360 --> 00:11:43.960
You know, they're like, oh
no, I'm fine my full time job

171
00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:46.000
or my other job or the next
job I'm going to get because that's of

172
00:11:46.080 --> 00:11:50.960
strong mentality. Now as well,
I don't have to worry because there's plenty

173
00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:52.320
of jobs out there and I can
find one, somebody will hire me.

174
00:11:54.000 --> 00:11:58.679
So I think that what we have
to look at from a business standpoint,

175
00:11:58.720 --> 00:12:03.039
And for those of you who are
owners or operators of attractions, I'm not

176
00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:07.440
even gonna say haunted attractions of attractions, we need to recognize that strong training,

177
00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:15.120
strong casting, and taking care of
your live performers is no different than

178
00:12:15.159 --> 00:12:20.759
making certain that your physical assets are
running smoothly and are operating properly. And

179
00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:26.759
in fact, in seasonal attractions like
Halloween and Christmas, I believe that your

180
00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:33.120
most important asset is not your animatronics, it's your actors. It is the

181
00:12:33.159 --> 00:12:37.440
people who bring the place to life. One of the Philip mentioned that we

182
00:12:37.759 --> 00:12:41.879
as we're recording this, we're in
sort of the widen down of so many

183
00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:46.080
of the haunted attractions. The one
that I'm working on now are still working

184
00:12:46.080 --> 00:12:50.879
with is the Vault of Souls.
And one of the things that I'm most

185
00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:54.039
proud of with that event is when
people come up and say, your actors

186
00:12:54.120 --> 00:13:00.759
downstairs are just They're constantly in character, They're constantly in gauging with us.

187
00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:05.480
And I feel very good about that
because I'm always concerned that, you know,

188
00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:11.200
they have to basically, they have
to go into a non climate controlled

189
00:13:11.240 --> 00:13:13.039
basement. Now I'm in Florida,
so it's not cold, it's hot.

190
00:13:13.360 --> 00:13:16.600
So you go into a non climate
controlled basement and you have to live as

191
00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:24.200
these characters with minimal breaks for upwards
of six hours, you know, And

192
00:13:24.279 --> 00:13:28.679
so I always tell my cast and
let them know how much they are valued

193
00:13:31.279 --> 00:13:33.200
and what I found it's yes,
and we do compensate them. We do

194
00:13:33.559 --> 00:13:39.360
compensate them fairly financially, but we
also listen to them. You know,

195
00:13:39.399 --> 00:13:43.440
they have to have a good time, and because they're living these characters.

196
00:13:43.480 --> 00:13:48.240
As the writer of the of the
event, I try to make sure they

197
00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:52.360
have all the backstory they need so
that when they have ideas. I had

198
00:13:52.399 --> 00:13:56.480
one actor, for example, is
he's playing a bank teller who is guarding

199
00:13:56.519 --> 00:14:01.240
all the secrets that people have have
shared with him. And he came to

200
00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:05.200
me and he said, are you
okay if I write up some letters that

201
00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:07.519
people have given me that have are
filled with secrets and hide them in the

202
00:14:09.159 --> 00:14:13.080
in the in the scenic and then
have guests find them and then take them

203
00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:18.080
to other characters. And I'm like, yes, absolutely. So now that

204
00:14:18.159 --> 00:14:22.320
actor is invested in what he's doing. It's not just he's he's parroting off

205
00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:26.159
what I've told him to do.
He's actually building upon that character, making

206
00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:31.000
it better than I thought that I
thought of, and and and has a

207
00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:33.840
sense of investment. So he will
be there every night of the event.

208
00:14:35.360 --> 00:14:39.159
You know, he will be there
to do that gig. It's a little

209
00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:43.240
more difficult when you're doing a haunt
that is primarily dropped door boot scares.

210
00:14:43.639 --> 00:14:48.840
I get that, but that's why
when you are budgeting and staffing those kinds

211
00:14:48.840 --> 00:14:54.279
of roles you need to switch out
more often. Back back in my theme

212
00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:58.639
park days, and I still believe
this, if you are doing what is

213
00:14:58.679 --> 00:15:03.039
a drop up door scare. And
I don't want anybody who's listening who is

214
00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:05.519
not involved in the haunt industry to
think, oh, drop door scares,

215
00:15:05.519 --> 00:15:07.879
there're a dime a dozen. You
can just hire anybody. All they have

216
00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:11.720
to do is let the door down
and go rah and then reset the door.

217
00:15:11.200 --> 00:15:16.320
Uh huh. Try doing that for
even two hours without a break,

218
00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:20.559
and you will be so sore and
broken your voice will be gone. So

219
00:15:20.600 --> 00:15:24.120
you've got to rotate those people quicker. Those are the kinds of people that

220
00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:28.360
it's it's physical labor, And if
you think about it, you know there

221
00:15:28.399 --> 00:15:33.639
are people who build roads and shovel
asphalt that make more money than school teachers.

222
00:15:33.720 --> 00:15:39.399
So it's not about the intellectual needs
of the job. It's about the

223
00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:43.559
needs of the job, and they're
physical and they're hard. Anyone who thinks

224
00:15:43.600 --> 00:15:48.200
that haunt acting or acting in any
sort of environmental experience is easy, has

225
00:15:48.240 --> 00:15:52.799
never done it and has or has
never really paid attention to it. It's

226
00:15:52.840 --> 00:15:56.679
hard, but you have to have
to give them that sort of support.

227
00:15:56.039 --> 00:15:58.759
I think the other stigma that I
hear a lot too, is that,

228
00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:03.879
you know, kind of like they
should be grateful to do it because it's

229
00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:06.559
fun. You know, it's perceived
as fun, right, It's like,

230
00:16:06.559 --> 00:16:08.080
oh, this is a fun job, so you know it's it's it's you

231
00:16:08.080 --> 00:16:14.279
should be happy to do it,
and it's like, well no. Well

232
00:16:14.279 --> 00:16:17.759
but even with that stigma, you
as the as the employer, have to

233
00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:21.159
do everything you can to continue to
make it fun and not just fun for

234
00:16:21.240 --> 00:16:25.200
you and not just accept you know, not just basically sit on your high

235
00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:26.919
throne and go, yes, I'm
granting you the ability to go and play

236
00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:30.720
in this fun world. Give them
tools to make it more fun. Give

237
00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:34.360
them ways to to help them with
either the the aches and pains that they're

238
00:16:34.360 --> 00:16:38.639
going to have from lifting a drop
door, or give them give them an

239
00:16:38.679 --> 00:16:45.240
audio trigger to help reinforce the sound
when so they don't have to scream.

240
00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:51.200
Until all all you're getting is each
time a door drops you know, you

241
00:16:51.360 --> 00:16:55.440
have to you have to invest not
just in finding the people, but in

242
00:16:55.600 --> 00:16:59.120
retaining them, and it is probably
more important now than it has ever ever

243
00:16:59.559 --> 00:17:04.559
been. And yes, there are
retainment tools like you know, end of

244
00:17:04.599 --> 00:17:10.200
your bonuses if you worked every scheduled
shift or and you know, these are

245
00:17:10.200 --> 00:17:12.480
all great, work them into your
budget, but they are becoming less and

246
00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:15.319
less effective. Yeah, people will
just be like, yeah, I gotta

247
00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:19.519
go. That's exactly what I was
thinking. That it just seems like it's

248
00:17:19.839 --> 00:17:25.200
all that is becoming less effective,
Like you know, I mean, I

249
00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:29.079
think even if you doubled the pay
for the high end nights, I don't

250
00:17:29.119 --> 00:17:33.079
think it would change that much because
to your point, I think the vast

251
00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:37.559
majority of the people that at least
at the Haunts that I'm involved with,

252
00:17:37.839 --> 00:17:41.079
the vast majority of their actors have
other jobs and so they're really just after

253
00:17:41.200 --> 00:17:47.400
work, they're coming and doing this, and it's just that's just that's I

254
00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:48.960
don't want to say. It's like
it's like almost like a recipe for disaster.

255
00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:52.880
Right where you are working in a
full time job, potentially in physical

256
00:17:52.119 --> 00:17:56.480
labor, and then you are have
an hour break to maybe get dinner,

257
00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:59.359
and you come to the haunt and
you get in makeup and then you sit

258
00:17:59.440 --> 00:18:03.960
in a corner for six hours.
That's not I'm not sure who would call

259
00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:08.160
that fun, But I mean,
what I find most interesting is a lot

260
00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:11.400
of folks like in the haunt industry, at least in my experience, a

261
00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:17.519
lot of haunt actors are people like
school teachers are people who work in the

262
00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:19.839
medical field, which I don't quite
understand, but I see that happen a

263
00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:26.400
lot because it is so very different
to their day jobs, and it's seasonal.

264
00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:29.599
It's not something they're going to do
year round. They know that for

265
00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:34.640
fourteen, eighteen, twenty two nights
they're going to go and be able to

266
00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:40.880
be a character and have fun.
And yet they need to feel as though

267
00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:45.759
while they're having fun, they're respected, they're supported, they're given the basic

268
00:18:45.839 --> 00:18:51.839
creature comforts that they need. And
when they when you have the opportunity as

269
00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:56.160
the creative director to give them some
input. Absolutely. Now I'm not saying

270
00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:59.839
let them run wild. I've seen
haunts actually go to the opposite extreme where

271
00:18:59.839 --> 00:19:02.200
they basically just say, oh,
come in and do whatever you want to

272
00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:03.720
do, wear whatever you want to
wear, you know, and just as

273
00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:06.799
long as you're scary, and then
what you get is a lot of people

274
00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:10.519
doing things that don't work together,
and it's not planned, and it's a

275
00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:14.960
bunch of I call it the ego
haunt. It's the bunch of individual egos

276
00:19:14.960 --> 00:19:18.279
who are all in there trying to
one up their partners. But Haunted Attractions

277
00:19:18.319 --> 00:19:22.039
is it's a team sport and you
have to you have to work together to

278
00:19:22.119 --> 00:19:26.319
make it, to make it really
good, to make it impactful. But

279
00:19:26.000 --> 00:19:30.880
you know, I think that we're
in a position now where as we're looking

280
00:19:30.000 --> 00:19:37.359
at Christmas and events for twenty four
I think we need to think about things

281
00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:41.920
a little bit differently because the workforce
is the mentality of the workforce is not

282
00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:47.359
the same. We need to we
need to. I'm actually starting to design

283
00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:52.160
things that have smaller staff. Yeah, simply because we've had such challenges.

284
00:19:53.240 --> 00:19:56.880
There is a there is a major
theme park that I have worked with that

285
00:19:57.160 --> 00:20:03.119
has been actually holding virtual auditions every
week up until the close of the event.

286
00:20:03.039 --> 00:20:07.880
And from a training standpoint, that
is that is terrible. It's great

287
00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:11.640
to bring in fresh blood, that's
great, that's cool, but you have

288
00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:14.279
to make sure that you have the
support to train them. You can't just

289
00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:15.319
say here, put on this makeup, put on this costume, go scare

290
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:19.559
people. Yeah, I didn't know
that. I've seen that a lot,

291
00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:25.640
and I agree that it's it's too
difficult because it's such a safety concern to

292
00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:27.240
me, That's what I was thinking. You know, just the entire time

293
00:20:27.319 --> 00:20:30.279
of exactly what you said, You're
bringing in people that may not be familiar

294
00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:33.160
with the area. They don't know
how to contact this. You know,

295
00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:36.960
you tell them, right, but
it's like it's like we talked about in

296
00:20:37.000 --> 00:20:40.079
management, you have to tell someone. You have to tell your staff something

297
00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:45.720
fourteen times for them to actually be
able to incorporate it into what they're doing.

298
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:48.720
And so you just don't have the
time. You can explain to them

299
00:20:48.759 --> 00:20:51.640
how to get in touch with their
stage manager if there's a problem, but

300
00:20:51.839 --> 00:20:55.359
they're probably not going to remember.
And then if you don't have enough you

301
00:20:55.400 --> 00:20:56.640
know, your short staff, you
don't have enough floaters that are going around

302
00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.559
to check on people. But I
like the idea of really thinking about how

303
00:21:00.599 --> 00:21:04.240
we can scale back, because we've
talked about this before. But even if

304
00:21:04.279 --> 00:21:08.480
you scale back, you can always
add in on top. So if you

305
00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:11.640
end up with a surplus, you
can just make magic. Basically, you

306
00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:15.480
can have you can add in more
places to make magic. But I think

307
00:21:15.519 --> 00:21:22.559
the scaling back model is something we
should look more into. I went and

308
00:21:22.680 --> 00:21:26.799
visited another haunt and reported on them, and it's the same thing I heard

309
00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:30.839
there, but with them it was, you know, for them, this

310
00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:33.839
year was all about how to design
differently. And you know, the guy

311
00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:37.720
just talked about having been a home
haunter and that having given him the background

312
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:45.359
to really work with much less actors
and designing the whole thing around having much

313
00:21:45.400 --> 00:21:48.359
smaller acting footprint and then if he
has extra he can put them in Q

314
00:21:48.559 --> 00:21:52.000
line or add them to scenes.
But you know, having someone work like

315
00:21:52.079 --> 00:21:55.440
four areas, you know, because
they can. And I will say that

316
00:21:55.640 --> 00:22:00.559
as a as a designer and as
a Haunt writer, I want to make

317
00:22:00.599 --> 00:22:06.799
it very clear, I do not
want to design for less cast. I

318
00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:11.359
have to design for less cast.
It's not an option. And it also

319
00:22:11.480 --> 00:22:15.440
depends, you know. One of
the things that now that I'm doing more

320
00:22:15.480 --> 00:22:22.680
and more work nationally and internationally,
you have to recognize that different areas have

321
00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:26.480
different workforces as well. Being here
in Central Florida, there is a huge

322
00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:30.880
workforce that is gigbased. They will
work at each of the theme parks and

323
00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:33.119
then pick up a gig at Sir
Henry's, and then pick up a gig

324
00:22:33.160 --> 00:22:37.240
at the vaulta Souls and then pick
up a gig. You know, there's

325
00:22:37.279 --> 00:22:41.759
a gig work mentality where you can
work pretty much full time for ten fifteen

326
00:22:41.799 --> 00:22:45.400
different people, different organizations. That's
not true everywhere. When we're up in

327
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:52.279
Indianapolis, for example, there is
not a big gig based workforce. So

328
00:22:52.440 --> 00:22:55.880
it's hard to find those people because
again, as you said said earlier,

329
00:22:55.920 --> 00:22:59.640
Philip, people have their full time
gigs. They don't want to risk those.

330
00:23:00.039 --> 00:23:03.039
They don't want to go into work
the following morning bleary eyed and horse

331
00:23:03.160 --> 00:23:08.000
and sore, which is what happens
in a haunted attraction. So uh,

332
00:23:08.119 --> 00:23:12.279
you know you have to kind of
look at what what can your uh,

333
00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:18.160
what can your area support from a
staffing So so do your research, find

334
00:23:18.160 --> 00:23:22.240
out what your area can support.
Plan for the fact that you are going

335
00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:26.839
to lose you are going there.
Attrition is going to happen in your in

336
00:23:26.920 --> 00:23:30.759
your workforce. It's it's not what
do I do if it's Uh, I

337
00:23:30.880 --> 00:23:36.279
need to prepare ahead of time so
that when just to give you an example.

338
00:23:36.440 --> 00:23:40.720
This is not this was not a
new problem, especially the larger your

339
00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:44.599
casts get. Uh, there was
There was a time where in a theme

340
00:23:44.640 --> 00:23:48.359
park kant we needed six hundred and
something to operate the to operate every position

341
00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:53.279
that was written for the haunted,
for the haunted event, and we would

342
00:23:53.359 --> 00:24:00.400
cast anywhere from eight hundred and some
years nine hundred to fill those sick hundred

343
00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:04.720
roles every night. And those six
hundred roles that was double casting, so

344
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:11.720
you know, we had proper breaks
built into our casting model. And then

345
00:24:11.799 --> 00:24:18.519
what we would do is we would
bring a set number of people in each

346
00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:25.720
night, pay them for two hours
or put them into a role so that

347
00:24:26.119 --> 00:24:29.680
we could then make certain that each
one of those six hundred and whatever roles

348
00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:33.559
were filled as much as we possibly
could. And I will say there were

349
00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:38.200
times even in that scenario where our
substitute performers who were they weren't just called

350
00:24:38.240 --> 00:24:41.559
in when they were needed, they
were scheduled. You will be here tonight.

351
00:24:42.480 --> 00:24:45.759
If there's nothing for you, we'll
pay you two hours and send you

352
00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:48.759
home. If there is something for
you, we will put you into costume

353
00:24:48.880 --> 00:24:53.359
makeup and send you out. That
is probably the best way to assure top

354
00:24:53.440 --> 00:24:59.160
guest quality when it comes to performers. Now, that is very, very

355
00:24:59.200 --> 00:25:02.839
difficult to do out because it's harder
to just find those bodies. But if

356
00:25:02.839 --> 00:25:04.640
you're in a big culture where you
can where you can do that, certainly

357
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:10.720
something to consider. And that's what
one and a quarter times your cast.

358
00:25:11.000 --> 00:25:15.279
Yeah. Yeah, So circling back
here, you know, the reason we're

359
00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:18.400
talking about this is because Christmas is
coming up and a lot of the big

360
00:25:18.480 --> 00:25:22.720
theme park events are opening on November
tenth. We're starting to see the articles

361
00:25:22.839 --> 00:25:26.200
roll out about what's new and what's
happening, what's changing, and so I

362
00:25:26.240 --> 00:25:30.559
think kind of to recap here,
Scott, you're mentioning a lot about the

363
00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:36.160
training ahead of time, and we
talked about you know, we keep talking

364
00:25:36.160 --> 00:25:38.920
about this, but overplanning basically,
you know, over hiring as much as

365
00:25:38.960 --> 00:25:44.559
you can, planning for paint,
trying to get them into pay, substitutes

366
00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:47.759
coming in, and the training.
Can you talk a little bit about the

367
00:25:48.200 --> 00:25:52.839
lessons we have left about the training, because that's something I think, at

368
00:25:52.920 --> 00:25:55.880
least the haunts I've worked, I
feel that the training that has been the

369
00:25:55.960 --> 00:25:59.759
thing for me that I have heard
from the actors the most is that they

370
00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:03.920
wish they had gotten more training or
been given more tools, or you know,

371
00:26:03.759 --> 00:26:07.119
one tour is not enough. One
dress rehearsal is not enough, you

372
00:26:07.200 --> 00:26:11.519
know. But it's difficult because some
of these places are opening November tenth and

373
00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:15.440
they're still in Halloween. Look at
Universal, they're in Halloween until the fifth

374
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:18.160
and they open on the temp.
How many dress rehearsals can you get?

375
00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:22.519
Well? And I will tell you
you're absolutely right. I think dress rehearsals

376
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:27.519
are are important. I would strongly
recommend that when you do a dress rehearsal

377
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:32.279
that you do a dress rehearsal with
an invited audience because when it comes to

378
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:37.880
rehearsing, especially immersive things walk through
experiences, street misphere experiences, no matter

379
00:26:37.960 --> 00:26:41.880
what time of the year you're doing
them, the missing cast member is always

380
00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:47.240
the guest and without that, they're
never going to be able to train.

381
00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:48.400
There's a couple of ways of doing
this. You can do it as a

382
00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:53.559
friends and family preview on your dress
rehearsal. We've had great success with that

383
00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:56.440
at some of the zoos that I
work with. Zoo Tampa does that,

384
00:26:57.279 --> 00:27:03.880
which is great. You can also
take your cast especially if you're a double

385
00:27:03.920 --> 00:27:07.759
cast or you have a split cast, have one cast play guests for the

386
00:27:07.880 --> 00:27:11.960
other cast and then switch it.
Because what that does is it also trains

387
00:27:11.359 --> 00:27:15.759
your actors to watch, Oh wait, that worked for the person who's filling

388
00:27:15.799 --> 00:27:18.720
my role when I'm not there,
maybe I can find something to build on

389
00:27:18.839 --> 00:27:22.960
that. So I think I think
that's important. I am. I am

390
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:27.319
a firm believer that you know when
you're when you're training, it's tell show

391
00:27:27.759 --> 00:27:34.160
do reinforce, reinforce, reinforce,
reinforce. Notice that's not redirect redirect redirect

392
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:37.799
redirect. When you catch them doing
something well, you give them, You

393
00:27:37.920 --> 00:27:41.880
give them great praise. You figure
out some sort of reward scenario. If,

394
00:27:41.880 --> 00:27:45.440
for example, you are a volunteerhunt
where you're not paying people, do

395
00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:48.200
do a drawing at the end of
the night. You know, each time

396
00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:52.839
you catch somebody doing something over the
top, great, enter them into that

397
00:27:52.920 --> 00:27:55.799
drawing so that at the end of
the night they can take home, you

398
00:27:55.880 --> 00:27:59.799
know, a gift certificate for pizza, or you know, a ticket to

399
00:27:59.839 --> 00:28:04.400
a another local haunt or something like
that, a limited edition Christmas ornament,

400
00:28:04.880 --> 00:28:12.079
whatever. So so make certain that
during the training you set up here's what

401
00:28:12.279 --> 00:28:17.720
success looks like. Here's what we're
aiming for. And make sure that it's

402
00:28:17.799 --> 00:28:21.799
not just what you're doing, but
why you're doing it. That is something

403
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:26.319
that I think gets missed horribly in
training, and I noticed it especially in

404
00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:29.480
Halloween because basically they'll say, when
the guest gets here, drop the door

405
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:33.640
and scream and then close the door. Okay, but that gives you very

406
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:37.279
little to play on and it allows
your actors to go completely in the wrong

407
00:28:37.359 --> 00:28:40.160
direction if they choose to, if
they get bored, if they get tired,

408
00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:42.960
whatever, So let them know,
you know, make sure everybody understands

409
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:49.319
where they fall in the overarching experience
for the guest, and so explain,

410
00:28:49.440 --> 00:28:52.160
you know, why it's important that
they do this, why it's important to

411
00:28:52.240 --> 00:28:56.440
be consistent, and then continue to
catch it. And by the way,

412
00:28:56.720 --> 00:29:00.720
trainers should not be done when you
open. Training should continue throughout the run

413
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:04.920
of your experience, and there should
always be somebody to pop in to again

414
00:29:06.039 --> 00:29:10.440
catch you doing things right if you
are a performer, So you know,

415
00:29:11.279 --> 00:29:14.160
explain what the north star is.
Here's what we're trying to accomplish. This

416
00:29:14.319 --> 00:29:18.200
is it. Here are a couple
of ways to do it as part of

417
00:29:18.240 --> 00:29:22.680
your homework before our next rehearsal,
come up with three more ways to accomplish

418
00:29:22.799 --> 00:29:25.839
this goal. Put it back into
their hands, because you know, as

419
00:29:26.000 --> 00:29:29.000
a creator and as a director,
I always say, I'm not the one

420
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:32.799
who has to play these characters all
night. The actors are. So the

421
00:29:32.920 --> 00:29:36.400
more they can contribute to it and
have that sense of ownership, the more

422
00:29:36.519 --> 00:29:41.119
likely they will be a consistent and
b they'll stick around till the end,

423
00:29:41.160 --> 00:29:45.039
because that's when it truly gets fun
quote unquote fun. That's when it becomes

424
00:29:45.079 --> 00:29:51.319
a fun job. And I think
that the thing that quite often is missed

425
00:29:51.359 --> 00:29:56.680
and the thing that's becoming more and
more difficult, is casting. A good

426
00:29:56.720 --> 00:30:00.599
director puts the right people in the
right jobs, shows them what's access looks

427
00:30:00.640 --> 00:30:03.519
like, and gets the heck out
of their way, and then reinforces them

428
00:30:03.559 --> 00:30:07.079
as they go along, redirects them
quietly when they need when they go off

429
00:30:07.119 --> 00:30:12.359
the rails. So when it comes
to casting, don't just say, oh,

430
00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:17.759
you fit the costume, let's put
you there. Really pay attention to

431
00:30:17.880 --> 00:30:21.279
them. We I've started to do
now as part of casting pretty much across

432
00:30:21.319 --> 00:30:25.200
the board. I will watch their
audition process, and then I will just

433
00:30:25.279 --> 00:30:27.880
ask them as a person a question, what is your favorite thing about Christmas?

434
00:30:27.920 --> 00:30:32.519
What is your favorite thing about Halloween? Is? What is the hardest

435
00:30:32.559 --> 00:30:34.079
thing about this job? What do
you think is the hardest thing about this

436
00:30:34.240 --> 00:30:37.880
job? Just to get them talking. You know, you've heard You've heard

437
00:30:37.960 --> 00:30:42.160
managers and leaders in the past say
that we have to we have to hire

438
00:30:42.640 --> 00:30:48.279
for attitude or or hire for fit
within the culture, and then train for

439
00:30:48.599 --> 00:30:53.680
specific tasks. You kind of need
both for this, But don't forget the

440
00:30:53.759 --> 00:30:59.480
human part, because I also think
that by asking questions of them and talking

441
00:30:59.519 --> 00:31:03.319
to them as people during the audition
process, you've already kicked the ball down

442
00:31:03.359 --> 00:31:07.599
the road a little bit so that
you can treat them as valued members of

443
00:31:07.640 --> 00:31:12.359
your team after they're hired and continue
to reinforce what they do well. So

444
00:31:12.720 --> 00:31:15.759
again, this is something that I'm
very passionate about, and I've rambled on

445
00:31:15.839 --> 00:31:19.079
and rambled on and rambled on.
So I blame you, Philip for having

446
00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:25.079
me talk about training. But unfortunately
we are out of time, and we

447
00:31:25.200 --> 00:31:26.759
are out of time not only for
this show, but also we are out

448
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:32.359
of time to cast all of our
Christmas events. So good Luckome for those

449
00:31:32.359 --> 00:31:36.119
of you who are listening, but
thank you so much for being a part

450
00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:38.559
of our little green tagged world every
week, and we hope to see you

451
00:31:38.640 --> 00:31:40.880
all again next week.