Six Flags Buys ArieForce One & Offers Loans To guests

0:00 Oh, my. Well, hello there, everybody, from our studios this week in Houston and Los Angeles. This is Green Tagged Theme Park in 30. I'm Philip from Gantam Lighting and Controls, and I'm joined, as always, by my delightful co-host, the Scott Swenson of Scott Swenson Creative Development, who is currently on a project right now. So we're doing this a little bit early and a little bit remotely. But on Green Tagged, of course. Actually, a lot remotely, Philip. We're doing it a lot remotely. That's true. Because I'm nowhere near home, so I'm... I'm at Space Center Houston doing, trying to get a show up. So anywho, I'm in my hotel room. Sorry, go ahead. I interrupted. I apologize. That's okay. I think everyone knows at this point, you know, this is what the show is. We look at the top news every week and we try and pick the stories that matter most. And we are back at Six Flags. Yes, we're back at Six Flags. And last week we, they teased us, you know, last week they, Six Flags loves to tease. It's their new thing of dropping out little hints that they're going to give announcements. And so we got two to three of the announcements that they brought out this week, and we'll go through them. And the first one is what they had teased last week, where they said they were going to announce a revolutionary way to kind of make parks more accessible to people. And it turns out that way is that you can get

1:31 a loan. Did you know that, Scott, that you could just get a loan if you can't afford to go to a theme park? Okay, I'm sorry. Okay, I'll read it. I'll read it. I'll read the actual news. Okay, sorry. I'm getting too cheeky. So basically the news is that Six Flags will now let guests buy a season pass or any eligible online order of $ 50 or more and pay for it over time through a program that it's calling FlexPay by Upgrade. And they're presenting this, of course, as a way to make the passes easier to afford, and they're spreading the cost into monthly payments that a household can plan around. However, this is kind of different than it operates at other theme parks because FlexPay is a loan from an outside lender.

2:14 It's not a payment plan that is operated by Six Flags. That would be a payment plan that is similar to how some of the other parks do it. This is different because it's an actual loan. The money comes from Upgrade's lending partners, a San Francisco financial technology company, and its approval is based on an actual credit check that you have to go through. So applicants must be at least 18. A down payment may be required. And here's the fine print, is that the annual percentage rate runs anywhere from zero to 36%. Depending on the borrower. So you can pay off the balance early with no penalty, of course. And the option is available in every U.S. state that has a Six Flags Park, but not in some of the U.S. Territories. So Right.

2:55 So I guess if you don't have a credit card or you don't want to put it on your credit card, you could try and get a.... What is this, Scott? So I believe they said this was going to be... These announcements were going to be head-turning. I think that was the term that they used when they were teasing. I think they meant head-shaking. Because I'm just looking at it going... So. Yeah, when you have a company that is in such debt and so cash poor, if you can convince somebody to take on the loan of a flex pay, internally it makes a ton of sense. And for guests who are fiscally responsible and can pay it off in a timely manner and have a really good credit rating, it's probably not necessarily a bad thing either. But where this is, where the, I mean, just looking at it from a financial standpoint, where this is going to make money is the people who can't afford to pay off their bills on a regular basis, which, and maybe I'm making a gross generalization, are probably the people who can't afford to buy a season pass outright, are going to end up getting First of all, they're going to have a higher interest rate because my guess is if they're not paying their bills on a regular basis. And again, I'm making gross assumptions here. But if they're not paying their bills

4:28 on a regular basis, my guess is their credit rating is not particularly high, which would mean that they would have a higher percentage of an interest rate. And it would also mean that they would pay it off over a longer period of time or even default on the loan. That's the thing that I don't see here. Because this is a loan, if they default on the loan and they don't pay it off, then what happens? So this is, if everybody is above ground, if we lived in a perfect world, there's absolutely nothing wrong with this. Six Flags gets their money right up front. They don't have to wait for the flex pay to come in. They get it from the lender. The lender gets a loan. The lender makes money off the loan. Great, great, great. Not a problem. But where the money is going to be made is when things don't go exactly as planned where the money is going to be made is those people who need, who don't have a great credit rating. And unfortunately the people who don't have a great credit rating don't have a great credit rating either because they are very young and haven't established one or because they haven't been able to pay things off in a timely manner or within the confines of the loan. So, um, this is one of those situations where it's like, if you feel that it's a benefit to you and you're going to pay it off correctly, there's nothing wrong with it.

5:55 I can't sit here and go, this is a scam. It's not a scam. It's just let the buyer beware, you know, read all those details, make sure that those interest rates figure out what their interest rates are. If you can get a, if you can get a car loan with a low interest rate, this is probably going to benefit you. I, if I'm going to sum it up, this is going to help people who don't really need the help. Right. Right. Well, I think kind of double-clicking on what you're saying about how it's good for Six Flags, basically, essentially, like you're saying, it does allow them to, I guess, provide a pay later option without actually needing to have the cash to do that.

6:41 Because if they're partnering. With And so then the lender is kind of subsidizing the ticket sales. So it kind of allows Six Flags to say that they offer something similar to Buy Now, Pay Later, or they offer something in the vein, but they still get their money. And then it's kind of up to the loan company and the guest to figure out their payment terms. So it does allow them to kind of match that system for the other parks without them having to use any of their money or their credit. Well, any of their credit or even building a department to track it down, to run it, to operate it. I mean, in essence, what they've done is they have used an outside vendor to handle their flex pay. Right.

7:28 And I can't promise you that other theme parks aren't doing that as well. I don't know. But if they have, they've done it as a white paper thing and nobody knows that it's an outside vendor. Here they've come forward and said, yep, it's a loan. The next question I have is if you– I mean this could be one of the most fun ways in the world to build your credit. If you don't have– and can it be done that– I mean can it be used in that way? I don't know. I don't know. But these are just the questions. Like I said, I don't think there's anything wrong with this necessarily. But it is clearly most beneficial to Six Flags. And, you know– if people are willing to do it, then it must be a great business move.

8:14 It just, um, right. I think that was a takeaway for me also is that this is, I mean, personally, I don't like it. Like personally, like I, I, it's, it like raises my like ick sensors, you know, as just a regular person, but you have to acknowledge that it is, it is a good move for Six Flags. That's strategically, strategically thinking. It allows them to even just say we offer, uh, something that's FlexPay adjacent and it doesn't impact them at all. And like you're saying, they're basically outsourcing all of it. And so they don't, they can offer all the benefits and take none of the costs. So that's a great strategic, whenever you can do that as a company from a strategic standpoint, it's good. I do agree with you that it does seem to unfairly target the people that can afford it the least.

9:02 And that's how it all works. And I guess my first question. That's how FlexPay works, period. Because I don't know. I don't honestly know what the flex pay penalties are with the other parks. I mean, if you do flex pay with one of the other parks, what happens if you stop paying? What happens if you can't pay? What happens if you do a token amount that's not the full amount? Is there, you know, what are those agreements? And I don't know the answer to that. So because, you know, we can sit here and say 36%. Holy crap, that's outlandish interest rate. But I don't know what the penalties are on the other ones. So I don't, I'm, I'm comparing apples to nothing at this point. So I don't, I don't know. Yeah.

9:45 And the other ones are handled differently, you know, cause I have a one, the annual pass, the magic key, which is a contract actually, you know, and it's only, that's why it's only available to California people that live in California, the, not the past, but I mean the payment plan is only available to people in California because, you know, it's a contract that you actually sign to, it's like actual contract, you know, you're signing this contract that you're going to do these payment terms over the course of a year. And, you know, you're signing it with, with Disney. And so there is, you know, precedent for it. The credit check is the thing that's interesting because that's not anything you have to do for the other other areas you just you know it's agreement it's payment terms that you're agreeing to so that's that's interesting and yeah it is just one of those things where i'm wondering like why wouldn't you just pay with a credit card but maybe it's because they're targeting people that don't have credit cards or they have credit cards that have really really low because they're 18 and they just got it and they can't so maybe it's a who know you know what actually this conversation has maybe moved me a little bit more into maybe it is more revolutionary than we think, because if, if it, who knows, you know, maybe it opens up a whole market of people that don't have credit cards yet because they couldn't get one, but they're going to, but it's enough for them to pay this like 25 a month or whatever, you know, and then it helps them with their credit and it allows them into the park and it'll be a whole unlock.

11:13 And maybe, I don't know. Yeah. It's, it's one of those things that I don't think the, I don't think the program itself is either particularly positive or negative. It just depends on how it is, how people who are taking advantage of it choose to use it. Right, right. Well, okay. Well, the next news that they dropped, of course, was the big, I think the one, they did these on purpose, right? So this one, the FlexPay came out on Monday and then on Tuesday, they brought that they had acquired Air Force One And I think that's probably by design because they want a little bit of the thing that is more exciting for the regular fans of this.

11:55 Sexier. It's just sexier. It's sexier, right. So, of course, Six Flags said on September 8th that it has acquired Air Force One, the steel roller coaster built by Rocky Mountain Construction, and will reopen it at one of its parks during the 2028-2029 operating seasons. It did not tell us what park. It didn't tell us how much it paid. It did not give a construction timeline or anything else. other than it plans to keep the name, and that's it. And so Air Force One, of course, it opened back in 2023 at Fun Spot America Atlanta Park, and it closed in 2026 when Fun Spot shut that park down after 36 years, saying it could not sustain the operation despite its investment. And so, you know, it has quite a following. I mean, it's pretty well-known. I've never ridden it, but even I've heard of it, right? This Air Force One, it has a huge.

12:45 following. And I think when that park closed, that was the thing that people were wondering about. It's like, what's going to happen to this ride? You know, so it kind of many, in some ways kind of overshadowed, I think the, even that, that front spot location was, this was like the thing. So, you know, back then the family owned operator front spot had built air force one and it named after, and it called it one of its most ambitious investments in history. And the coaster was reported to cost around 13 million and, uh, Later, it was reported it was closer to $ 18 million. So I. Think it's another question of how much did they pay and how much is it going to cost to get it there? This is already a company that is obviously struggling with debt and with investment.

13:27 But getting a used coaster is probably cheaper than making a new one. I mean, I don't know. There's moving costs, which is not to be. That's not insignificant, of course, is the relocation costs. But it's potentially cheaper than they're building a new one. And they're getting one that has a fan base. you know, and they're getting a bunch of PR and news about it. So that might kind of help balance that out. And right. They did mention that also. So the six flags said that this is a ride that consistently generated excitement and claim and passion and fan support. We are thrilled to preserve its legacy, invest in its future and bring this extraordinary attraction to a new generation of guests. So they're already kind of hinting that that's a main reason. So what do you think, Scott?

14:11 Yeah, I think, well, number one, I think you're absolutely right. I think that the, uh, the cost of getting a used coaster is significantly reduced than one of, of building, uh, from scratch. A lot of it is things that you don't think about like design costs. Um, there's some, there's some fabrication costs. Yes. The moving of it and the installation of it. Let me, let me start back a little bit further. The, uh, strike the teardown of it, the moving and the installation of it are there. There are definitely costs there. Um, But it is less expensive than getting a new coaster. And this is something that is not new to Six Flags at all. Six Flags has a long history of taking coasters and moving them from one of their parks to another one of their parks.

14:59 In fact, back in the day, there were coasters that they would say, this is built as a touring coaster. It's going to be two years in this park and two years in that park and two years in this park. And it was actually built so that it could be disassembled, transported, reassembled, sort of like a really high-end touring state fair coaster, but with a few more semi-permanent attachment points. The other thing that intrigues me about this that I really actually quite like is Six Flags is leaning into nostalgia. The whole idea of Flags, and I don't even know whether they've considered it, but I'm guessing they have, but the whole idea of Flags looking to get more of a family audience And then bringing in coasters that people who are becoming young parents know of or are interested in or always wanted to experience. You know, I think that that, the legacy that it brings with it is going to offset a lot of the, I mean, that's what they're paying for, I think. Yes, it's cheaper or more cost effective than starting from scratch on a brand new coaster.

16:14 But the investment in the legacy I think is as much as important as the, the discount of a used coaster. So, yeah. And, and again, flags, at least the flags parks that, that, that I have frequented in my, in my youth, you know, six flags, great America, for example, they've always, they've always leaned heavily into nostalgia. And when they got rid of, you know, when they got rid of the initial coasters in that park, it was, it was a terrible, I mean, the, the American Eagle is, you know, this giant wooden coaster. It's still a great coaster. I wrote it not too long ago. It's still a great coaster and people can never get rid of it, even though that's not even the only original, excuse me, the only original coaster in the park. Willard's Whizzer are now just called the Whizzer is, um, the only original coaster in that park to my knowledge.

17:09 And it has this fan base. It's a, it's a mediocre toboggan coaster. I mean, it's fun, but it's nothing stellar. But there are so many generations now that that was their first real roller coaster, that the nostalgia is there to bring their kids back so that they can ride the Whizzer again and again and again. So the idea of leaning into nostalgia is also not new to Six Flags, just like moving coasters from one park to another. This is the first time I've heard of them. taking a coaster from, oh, that's not true. That's not true. They took a coaster from, in Six Flags Great America, they took a coaster from another park that was going to be demolished and brought it. It was a wooden coaster, not terribly large, not terribly exciting, but had a history to it, and they brought it to Six Flags, and it gets a lot of attention. So, yeah, I think this is kind of a cool move. quite honestly, I don't think it's quite as head turning as they wanted us to believe it was going to be. Um, you know, it's, it's sort of like, here's, here's our, here's our shocking new announcement where we're getting a used coaster. Um, but that's of course not the way you position it. It's, we are continuing the legacy of this beloved coaster that is, so it's all in how you spin it and put it in there. And if, if it's got the following, you know, great, more power to them. Right.

18:41 I don't think I have anything to add. I agree with all that. I think that I hadn't thought so much about the nostalgia thing because again, I have never written it, but I totally agree with that. I can see that angle. And clearly if they're doing a whole press release, I mean, the only statement they've mentioned is about that. It's about the fans. And I do remember when the park closed, like I said, that was the biggest thing that people seem to be talking about is what's going to happen to this ride. So I think it has a lot of, I think, again, it's another smart move strategically where it does allow them to get a coaster and to capitalize on fan experience. And it's probably, even though it's still going to cost a lot to move it, it's not as much. So I think they still get something for cheap and it doesn't feel like a bargain bin thing. It feels like they are rescuing something that fans really want to experience.

19:35 So I think that's, again, it's smart. It's a smart strategic move. So I think these are These were smart moves. I don't know how I feel about the first one still. You know, I think a little bit better than I did before, Uh, but, but this one's definitely a smart move for, for sure. And then the question is, are they going to be able to maintain it? I don't know. That's later down the road, but. Well, that is, yeah, that is another, that is another issue. Of course we always talk about even with, with, uh, Even with new ideas, it's what's the execution going to be. Right. And one smaller announcement is just that basically Six Flags Magic Mountain kind of kicked the can down the road a little bit about their coaster reveal. They had teased that they were going to have an official announcement coming out this week, but they pushed it.

20:32 In theory down to next week. So we don't, I guess we'll see next week. We will see if we're talking about six flags again, but there's another announcement coming out for magic mountain. We'll see how that goes. Okay. I think we have a little bit of time. Go ahead. Talk about something other than six flags. Well, no, I was just going to say, you got to give credit where credit is due though, because here we are talking about six flags yet again. So they're, they're keeping themselves at least, at least on our show, they're keeping themselves on the, on the, on the front burner. Right. Moving the magic mountain, moving their announcement is probably best because they don't want to eclipse the announcement we just talked about, right. With the air force one. So if they do have another coaster thing, they just want to that way that, you know, if you have something drop every week, they keep six like in the news, that's better. Again, the team is, is good at strategy. How I feel about all of it is, is, you know, it doesn't matter, but that's how the strategy is, is, pretty solid here. So, uh, I do want to talk about this next story from Abu Dhabi, just because, you know, you, you have a work experience there and then we have experience with this team as well. So the Warner brothers world in Abu Dhabi has announced the names of the three Harry Potter lands that they're working on. And they're going to be Diagon Alley, Hogwarts castle, and the forbidden forest. It also mentioned that it's going to be the They're going to have rides there in these three lands that are exclusive.

22:01 They have never been built in this way before in these areas. And of course, this is going to be the only Forbidden Forest area that exists really. And of course, the only themed lands that exist out of Universal Park. So I was waiting up for the announcement and was watching the screen as it counted down. And I'm pretty excited about this. We're involved. Tangentially in these projects, of course. And so I've known about them for a while, but not been able to talk about them kind of, you know, publicly like this. And I think it's going to be a great addition to the area. Although I will say, you know, I did post about this and, you know, of course you get the classic and people are still, I don't know, weirdly not happy with that region still. And so you kind of, there's some weird pullback. There's just pullback in, I think, from some of the, some of the, I guess, the US fans.

22:56 But I do think for our industry as a whole, if you step back and think about this as a professional in the industry. This is a good sign. If you're a professional in this industry, it is a good sign that people are building new things in places because it means there's work for all of us. And also it is good to see that they are trying to make something that is a ride that is more immersive and more show control and is just That's just a good sign. That's my take on it. I understand a lot of people are unhappy with the region for a lot of different reasons, but I just wanted to give it as a professional. I feel like it's a good sign. Scott, help me out here. Well, no, and I think that, you know, having done quite a, not quite a bit, but having done some work both there and Saudi, and you cannot compare the two.

23:44 They are very different. They are both Middle Eastern countries, but they run very, very differently. People have made decisions without, actual experience or practical knowledge. And obviously right now, the biggest threat in the area is created by the war. And so that has nothing to do with the UAE or Saudi as far as instigation goes. That's been the biggest challenge right now is things happening that were that are being generated outside of the country of the United Arab Emirates. And thank goodness, all I can say is because I have so many friends who are still there, and I have quite a few friends working on this project as well, all I can say is thank goodness for their air defense system because it has kept the UAE very, very safe, especially Abu Dhabi and the tourist island regions. I have known about this I have known not all the details, but I have known that this was coming since SeaWorld opened. So that would have been 2023.

24:56 Plus they did do at IAPA, they did do an announcement saying that Harry Potter was coming to Warner Brothers World several years ago. But this is obviously the official announcement with the details and such. And if you've never been to Warner Brothers World, I personally love the park. Um, some people love it. Some people hate it. I, I, I lived across this just literally through the hotel from it for five months and had a pass the entire time and had a marvelous time there. Um, it's, you know, is it, is it the biggest, most shocking roller coasters in the world? No. Um, it does have some of the coolest dark rides I've ever seen, but just the way they handle the properties has always been really top notch, really detailed. and just really fun. But I will tell you, the first time I heard about this, I was sitting at the bar on top of the Warner Brothers Hotel looking out over Warner Brothers World, and with us was the head of entertainment at the time for all of Merall Parks. This is before Jamie Johnson took that position, and was sitting there, and we knew that there was another land coming. And because again, because of the people that we were with and because of the confines we were talking about, it was going to be Harry Potter.

26:26 And I said, I looked at him and I said, you probably can't tell me, but how large is this going to be? And he said, I want you to look at that building because we're, you know, top floor looking down at the, at Warner Brothers world. And I said, okay. He says, now look at the amount of land there is around that building? And I said, yeah. So it basically takes up roughly, what, one fifth of the actual property? And he said, uh-huh. So I'm not saying that this is going to fill up the rest of their property, but they have plans to continue to expand. They have plans to take these Well, I mean, no matter how you feel about the brand, you have to at least admit that Harry Potter is an iconic brand that is going to print money for them. So I can't wait.

27:24 I am so excited to see this. It's not even funny because I know how they've handled IPs like Superman and Batman and the Warner Brothers characters, the Flintstones. I've seen how they've embraced these and made them so cool and so much fun. And so I can hardly wait to see. And the other thing you have to, everybody's saying, well, I don't see how they can do it. It's not a universal park. You know who owns Harry Potter? It's Warner Brothers. So of course they're going to do it differently. Of course they're going to do it in a way that nobody else can do it because it's their property.

28:09 They're not they're not leasing it from anybody else. So they already have a bit of a leg up. And I know it's interesting because knowing Warner Brothers World, I know where the entrance is going to be and I know kind of how it's going to fit into the overall experience in the park. And if it's what I think it's going to be, it's going to make that park significantly more viable as a multi-day experience. Um, it's going to make that park significantly more viable from a, uh, cause there was talk at some point in time and I don't know how serious it ever was of making this a separate park. Uh, but the decision obviously has been made to put it as, uh, as part of Warner brothers. And I think it's good.

29:02 And I'm, can I tell you how happy I am? They're doing the forbidden forest. Yep. You know, they could have, they could have done privet drive. They could have done so many other places. But doing the Forbidden Forest is just cool to me. I think it's going to be amazing. So you can pretty much live the entire school year as Harry and his friends would have lived it. So I think it's going to be pretty amazing. I'm excited. I am excited also. I wanted to ask you about it, of course, because of how much you know about that park. And I've been there as well, uh, twice, I want to say. And so I've seen it and I, what I like about it is that they are evolving. I think, you know, the, the U S theme parks are very evolved or whatever, you know, we have, we have a lot of experience. We have a lot, you know, so, So our live entertainment, our stuff has had a lot of years to mature.

29:59 It's mature. It's more mature. But I think they're making leaps every year by looking at seasonal events and looking at entertainment they can add, figuring out new ways to entertain people. So I'm excited about that too also, is that it is to see where this grows in that context. And also to your point about Warner Brothers owning this, they have an experiences division at Warner Brothers and they run the tour. And the tour in London is a theme park. And they're building one in Shanghai, right? And so they do have experience doing stuff that is in the physical world. And maybe it's not a theme park theme park in the way that, you know, like the Universal is. But if you've never done the studio tour London, you know, that's a, it's a massive experience, right? So I think that it's not like, it's not quite, you know, I agree with you.

30:47 Like they have more experience than maybe people realize about doing physical experiences and they have some many things planned. So it'll be exciting. And you know who does know how to do theme park theme park? Miral. That's true. Who they're partnering with, who actually own Warner Brothers World. So it's going to be a very exciting experience, and I hope I get a chance when it opens to go out and see it and praise the work of a lot of friends that I made when I was at SeaWorld. So speaking of friends, thank you all for being our friends. Thank you for listening. Thank you for coming back week after week. We are done for this week and we will see you again here on Green Tag Theme Park in 30 next week.