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Oct. 10, 2026

Six Flags Retires X2, Cedar Point May Get a New Name

Six Flags Retires X2, Cedar Point May Get a New Name

Key Takeaways

  • Six Flags Magic Mountain has permanently retired its iconic X2 roller coaster following recent guest hospitalizations and multiple lawsuits.
  • While Six Flags emphasized that X2 consistently passed all safety tests, park leadership noted the closure was necessary to address guest confidence.
  • Plaintiffs' attorneys have pushed back on the narrative, stating the closure comes too late for injured riders and that legal actions will continue.
  • Six Flags is currently surveying passholders about potential name changes for legacy parks like Cedar Point, exploring options such as Six Flags Cedar Point.
  • Corporate rebranding and renaming require a delicate balance to manage public opinion, legal risk, and brand unification without alienating loyal local fans.

Six Flags Magic Mountain has permanently retired X2. The announcement follows two hospitalizations in July, three brain-injury lawsuits filed in September, and a law firm that says hundreds more riders have contacted it. Park president Brian Oerding says the ride consistently passed safety tests and was closed because “when we see guest confidence affected, we take it seriously.” The plaintiffs’ attorney responded the same day, saying the closure came too late and the lawsuits continue.

Meanwhile, Six Flags is surveying passholders about adding its name to Cedar Point and Kings Island, with options like Six Flags Cedar Point and Six Flags Over North Ohio.

Mattel’s first indoor waterpark is set for Bellevue, Nebraska, at the end of 2027, with a Barbie pool and a Hot Wheels slide tower. The city owns the building and is funding it with up to $110 million in bonds.

Listen to weekly BONUS episodes on our Patreon.

Frequently Asked Questions

Why did Six Flags Magic Mountain retire X2?

Six Flags permanently closed X2 following guest hospitalizations in July and subsequent brain-injury lawsuits filed in September, citing an impact on guest confidence despite the ride passing safety tests.

Is Cedar Point changing its name to Six Flags?

Six Flags is surveying passholders about adding its corporate name to properties like Cedar Point and Kings Island, considering options such as Six Flags Cedar Point and Six Flags Over North Ohio.

Who is representing the plaintiffs suing over Six Flags X2?

The lawsuits are being handled by the Dordick Law Corporation, which reported that hundreds of additional riders have contacted them regarding injuries they believe were caused by X2.

WEBVTT

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Well, hello there from our studios this week in Tokyo

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and in Tampa. This is Green Tagged Theme Park in 30.

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I'm Philip and I'm joined as always by my delightful

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co-host Scott Swenson of Scott Swenson Creative Development. Here on

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Green Tagged, of course, we look at the top news

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each week and we try to choose the stories we

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think matter most to industry professionals. And this week we

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have to go back to Six Flags because there are

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There's a development that we have to talk about here

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with X2 because it's just funny because the Six Flags news,

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we always talk about it and then it changes. And

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then we can miss it. But we had recorded it

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early last week, of course, which is why this is delayed.

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But if you remember a few weeks ago, we did

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a story about X2 and the new lawsuits that happened

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for X2. And now we have found out from Six

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Flags that they are permanently retiring the ride. So this

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happens after two people were taken to the hospital in July.

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And then last time we talked, which was two weeks

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ago about this story, it was coming on the heels

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of three additional riders suing Magic Mountain in September. And

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then that's when the attorney said they had 100 people

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kind of trying to join the suit as well. So.

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So the park announced it via a statement on their blog,

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and the statement is pretty short, so I'll just read

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it here. This is from the Six Flags Magic Mountain

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Park president, Brian. Brian said, After almost 20 years, we

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have decided to permanently retire X2. Since X2 opened in 2008,

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it has welcomed more than 16 million guests and earned

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a passionate following among ride enthusiasts. We recognize the special

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place X2 holds in the coaster community, and we are

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grateful to our team members who operated and maintained it

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throughout its run. While X2 consistently passed a multitude of

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safety tests, we have decided to close the ride because

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we believe it's the right thing to do. Ride safety

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is a cornerstone of our business, and when we see

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guests' confidence affected, we take it seriously. Our purpose is

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to create fun, thrills, and a lifetime of memories by

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creating unforgettable experiences that are underpinned by comprehensive safety policies.

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To learn more about our Rights H program, visit our website.

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So in response to that statement, the attorney also gave

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a statement. This is the attorney for the new suit

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of the up to 100 people, you know, like three

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people that could be up to 100 people. And his

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name is Gary from the Dordick Law Corporation. And he

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put out a statement saying, Today, Six Flags Magic Mountain

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finally did what it should have done long ago. X2

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is closed for good. For our clients, this decision comes

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too late. They got on X2 expecting a thrill. Instead,

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they left with catastrophic brain injuries. Some needed emergency brain surgery.

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Some are still fighting to get their lives back. Hundreds

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of people have contacted our firm about injuries they believe

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were caused by X2. Closing the ride protects future guests,

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and we welcome that, but it does nothing for the

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people who have already been hurt. Six Flags must now

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take responsibility for them. We will keep fighting for every

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writer who is injured on X2. We will hold Six

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Flags accountable. Today's decision will not keep us from continuing

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with our lawsuits. So that's the backstory. The only thing

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I'm going to point out before I hand it over

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to Scott is that they kind of walk a really

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weird line here because specifically what caught my attention is

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him saying that while it passed safety tests, That he said,

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when we see guest confidence affected, we take it seriously.

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And so basically it seems like they're trying to say

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that the reason they're not opening is because guest confidence

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is not high. Like people don't want to write it,

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which is kind of untrue because if you even just

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read our comments on our videos previously, there's a lot

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of people that enjoy the ride and still want to

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write it and they're looking to see where it's going

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to go. So I just thought that was an interesting

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line to walk where they're just saying it's not... that

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it's kind of like, it's a little bit like blaming

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the guests in a weird backwards way. Like, they're like, well,

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the ride is safe, but guest confidence, you know, people

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just don't want to ride it. So we're not going to,

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we're going to keep it closed. Anyway, that's my piece

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and my background. Thank you. Thank you. Scott, what do

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you think?

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Well, I think both of these are incredibly... They're both

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exercises in how to craft a statement. To say one

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thing and mean something adjacent to what you're actually saying.

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If I were going to sum these up, the statement

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from Six Flags could basically be, okay, we'll close it.

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And the statement from the lawyer is, crap, you closed it,

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but we're still going to move forward. I mean, in

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all honesty, I never want anyone to be injured, and

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safety is always going to be job one. That is

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the background of all of this. But I mean, little

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things like starting, even starting a statement about the closing

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of a park with, after almost 20 years, we have

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decided to permanently retire X2. So basically what that's saying is,

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it's been open for 20 years now, And now people

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are finally coming forward claiming that they have been injured.

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And I'm not sure whether they have, or they haven't, uh,

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you know, that is still for the courts to decide. And,

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but I also, at the same time, no matter how

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well this is, is, is crafted because you're absolutely right, Philip,

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they'd be, he never said it was unsafe. Um, he said,

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I noticed the exact same thing that you did. And

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that is the, uh, guest confidence is affected. Then we

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take it seriously. Um, But he does also cite that

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it's passed multiple safety tests. It has run to standards by,

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I'm assuming, the park and by the ride manufacturer, because

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that's who actually develops the safety tests. So it is unique,

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and it is a great way to redirect everyone to

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the ride safety policies of Six Flags. So it is about...

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the only way you can do a statement like that,

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you know, you can't, you can't come on and say,

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especially when there's pending lawsuits, uh, you can't come out

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and say, yeah, you're right. We're hurting people. Got to

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close the damn thing. You know, that's not, that's not

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the approach you can ever take in this particular situation. Um,

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at the same time, I think that the lawyer was

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equally as, um, crafted and, In the statement, even with

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lines like, for our clients, this decision comes too late.

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You can almost hear the sad music playing in the background.

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It is crafted to clearly have a, you know, we

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were just talking before we started recording about having a

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point of view. And it is important to have a

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point of view. Both of these statements have, you know,

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it seems as though they're being straightforward. It seems as

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though they're being honest. But they both have a very

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clear and well-crafted point of view. Once again, if these

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people truly were hurt on X2, it should close. There's

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no question about that. And I'm not trying to be

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disrespectful to any of these people who have suffered. And

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it is up to the courts to decide whether their

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brain injuries are from this ride or not. So That's

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kind of a secondary thing. They had no choice. In

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my opinion, Six Flags had no choice but to close

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the ride. And it is, quite honestly, more because of

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the confidence that the guests had in the ride than

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the actual safety of the ride. I'm sure that it

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would still continue to pass safety tests. But the reason

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they have to close it is because of the confidence

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in it. You know, it reminds me of many, many, many,

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many years ago, there was a ride at Six Flags

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Great America, which I don't think it was a Six

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Flags park at the time, called The Edge. And The

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Edge was a drop ride. You know, your car came out,

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you came to The Edge and you dropped and fell

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onto your back and slid over and came down and

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got out. Wrote it several times myself. And it had

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a malfunction, which ended up, uh, ended up in one death,

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ended up in one death. And back in those days

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when the media cycles were significantly longer, um, they had

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no choice but to remove the ride. They removed the ride. Now,

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interestingly enough, they removed the ride. They moved it to

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another park, renamed it and opened it again. But They

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took it away from Six Flags because again, it was

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a freak accident. There's no question about it. There are

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still rides like this that are running today in parks,

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in different parks, in different places. But it was a,

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and I'm sure they've, you know, upgraded the safety and

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those of you listening who are much more ride focused

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than I am, I'm sure you understand and will be

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able to perhaps even share in some of the comments

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on this show uh, what, what changes have been made,

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but whenever a ride does something, whenever a ride does

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something bad, you have no choice, but to get rid

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of it because you're never going to win the argument,

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whether you win the lawsuit or not, you're never going

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to win the argument of public opinion. Um, and what's

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interesting is, you know, as, as you mentioned, because of

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the comments from the last time we talked about this, Um,

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there are still people who will hate to see that

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coaster go away and who have ridden it multiple times and,

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and are fine. Um, so it's, it's an unfortunate situation,

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but this is the only way I think it can

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play out, unfortunately. So that's my, that's my point of view.

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And I hope that, you know, all of those people who, um,

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who have the brain injuries, I hope that, uh, you know,

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they continue to, to heal and do well. And, um,

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we will see how much truly falls on the shoulders of, uh,

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of six flags based on the court, based on what

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will happen in a court of law.

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Yeah. Yeah. I think, uh, as we talked about last time,

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I think I, I, I thought from for a while

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that they should have announced a permanent closure for a while. Uh,

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I think I was a little surprised that lasted this

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long once you look into the history of the ride, but, um,

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I think it's clear that the tide is kind of turning,

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you know, with, with, and it's like, it's, it's not

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gonna help because every, it just keeps getting back into

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the news. And I think, uh, the, the, the real

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question is how much the regular guest really knows or

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pays attention to any of that. I think that's, that

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might've been what started to tip it. You know, if

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just the regular guest is like, is that the coaster

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with all the, you know, it kind of, And of course,

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if they're, they announced the new coaster, I think this

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is the other part of it too, right? As they

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announced a new coaster for magic mountain, that's supposed to

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be opening next year. It's like delayed. I think that's

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also part of it. Like you don't want, it's like,

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you're just opening this new coaster. You don't want it

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to be like, Oh, we don't want to go to

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that new coaster because that's the park that, you know,

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that kills people, right? You don't, you don't want to

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have this like weird, uh, just shadow kind of label

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hanging over. And so I think this was the only way.

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And I don't love the phrasing, of course, but I

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agree that it's probably the only way they could have

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done it. Like you can't say– you really can't say

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anything else because as we talked about before, any other

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way that you would put this could be brought into

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court for some reason. So we kind of had to

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walk this line of like– Well, and.

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The thing is there were no lies in this statement either.

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was it presented in the most positive light for the parks? Yes.

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But isn't their job, you know, um, this, it's interesting

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because it kind of goes back at what I'm really curious.

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And I don't know whether we'll ever see this, but

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what I'm really curious is if they have been able

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to find any sort of, uh, frontline operator statements regarding

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the safety of the ride. Um, that's, that's where you're

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really going to run into some potential challenges because quite honestly, the, um,

220
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the official statement is always easy to craft. What the

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frontline person is saying to the passing guest or overheard

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by the media, that's what's more difficult to control. And,

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you know, it's, again, it's still too early to tell,

224
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but I think one of the most important things, if

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there's going to be a takeaway for people in the

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park systems is, you know, obviously, number one, make sure

227
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your rides are safe. make sure they're passing all the safety.

228
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This is a perfect example of why you do those

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safety checks, why you hold those documents, why you are

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able to say here is they are safe based on

231
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the tests that have been set up by the manufacturers.

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And that's why quite often in many parks, they will

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not open a ride even though the parks themselves want

234
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to open it because they want to make certain that

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if something, God forbid, does happen, they can pass that

236
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responsibility on to the ride manufacturer So they follow ride

237
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manufacturer recommendations to the letter in most cases. And when

238
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they don't, that's when it ends up falling back and

239
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becoming operator error.

240
00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:25.230
Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think not much else to say

241
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about that. I think we're just going to have to

242
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watch and see what happens with the actual cases. And

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that's going to be the next piece. But it's interesting

244
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that you bring up the frontline statements just because What

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surprised me actually, when we talked about this, we've talked

246
00:14:42.620 --> 00:14:46.419
about this for several episodes and it's like every episode

247
00:14:46.460 --> 00:14:50.019
we put it out there, there's a lot of comments

248
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by people that have written it. And so I think it's,

249
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that's the interesting wrinkle to me is that how many

250
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people kind of think it's obviously a rough ride, you know,

251
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and that, that is, you know, obviously the court has

252
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to decide and we'll have to leave it up to

253
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them and it's all going to come out in there.

254
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But that's, to me, the, kind of the yellow light

255
00:15:10.620 --> 00:15:12.740
is a little bit like, you just have to mention

256
00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:15.549
the name of it, right? And anybody who has ridden

257
00:15:15.610 --> 00:15:18.649
it has thoughts on it. And that's not a good,

258
00:15:18.669 --> 00:15:22.669
probably not a good place to be in. And that's probably,

259
00:15:22.730 --> 00:15:25.110
but that's probably exactly why they're phrasing it in this way.

260
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Because that's exactly, you know, everyone has an opinion on

261
00:15:28.009 --> 00:15:29.960
it and everyone agrees that it's a rough ride. Some

262
00:15:29.980 --> 00:15:32.820
people still like it. Some people like the rough ride,

263
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but it's rough.

264
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And once the, you know, once the park, Actually, you know,

265
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once the coaster is closed and it's taken away, the

266
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park's going to have to, I'm sure, field a bunch

267
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of angry guests who are like, this is the best,

268
00:15:45.659 --> 00:15:47.210
this is the coolest coaster in the world. Why is

269
00:15:47.269 --> 00:15:50.110
it gone? Because they don't know all the whole story.

270
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So it's just, unfortunately, the only thing that can be done.

271
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And if it truly is dangerous, should be done.

272
00:15:58.690 --> 00:16:04.620
Yep, yep. So... some quick news. Let's, we're going to

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change stories here into some quick news that's related to

274
00:16:07.539 --> 00:16:11.059
this six flags, but, uh, there, there's local reporting coming

275
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out from WCPO about how Cedar point is. They're thinking

276
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maybe of, of changing the Cedar point name, but basically

277
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they just sent out a survey to guess. And part

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of the survey question is just asking about how pass

279
00:16:25.720 --> 00:16:28.620
holders would feel if the name was of Cedar point

280
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was changed and they, put up some options like Cedar

281
00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:34.860
point by six flags, six flags, Cedar point, six flags

282
00:16:34.960 --> 00:16:41.039
over North Ohio and Cedar point, a six flags experience. So, um,

283
00:16:41.059 --> 00:16:45.460
I was just, it's just interesting because we, this is a,

284
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we've talked about this before when the sale happened and

285
00:16:49.169 --> 00:16:52.009
enchanted parks purchase it. And now enchanted parks has been

286
00:16:52.049 --> 00:16:54.990
trying to rebrand. Um, and the reason it's important is

287
00:16:55.029 --> 00:16:58.259
because rebranding is not an easy thing. You know, it is, uh,

288
00:16:59.620 --> 00:17:04.039
It's tough because we're all in the industry and so

289
00:17:04.059 --> 00:17:07.640
we're paying attention, but locals are not. And I'm sure

290
00:17:07.660 --> 00:17:10.809
there's many of them who do have no idea that

291
00:17:10.880 --> 00:17:13.869
Cedar Point is Six Flags now. I'm sure they don't.

292
00:17:13.990 --> 00:17:17.289
Just like at Knott's, I still talk to people where

293
00:17:17.349 --> 00:17:20.849
I'm at that don't know that Knott's and And Magic

294
00:17:20.869 --> 00:17:23.470
Mountain are the same company. They have no idea. And,

295
00:17:24.259 --> 00:17:27.220
you know, the unified app that, you know, the new

296
00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:30.140
unified app that Six Flags has launched a while ago now,

297
00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:34.140
that's helping because the app is actually called Six Flags, right?

298
00:17:34.180 --> 00:17:38.480
So when I pull up my Knott's annual pass barcode,

299
00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:41.380
I have to open the Six Flags app, right? And

300
00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:44.140
then I choose Knott's from it. So I think that's

301
00:17:44.180 --> 00:17:49.390
helping to kind of unify the brands. But renaming is tricky.

302
00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:53.160
renaming is tricky. And I think for me, I would say,

303
00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:57.519
do not lose the Cedar Point name. So calling it

304
00:17:57.619 --> 00:18:02.160
Six Flags over North Ohio is not going to roll.

305
00:18:02.420 --> 00:18:05.960
So I would leave the Cedar Point thing. And I'm

306
00:18:05.980 --> 00:18:09.160
not even sure it needs to have Six Flags because

307
00:18:09.200 --> 00:18:12.349
I don't really think that it necessarily matters. I think

308
00:18:12.380 --> 00:18:15.349
that the only reason it matters is people that are

309
00:18:15.369 --> 00:18:18.569
looking to do regional passes. And those regional pass guests

310
00:18:18.710 --> 00:18:23.730
generally like know what's in the regional pass like that's

311
00:18:23.750 --> 00:18:25.319
why they want to get the regional pass so i

312
00:18:25.339 --> 00:18:28.619
kind of think that's it's not very necessary but i

313
00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:30.660
don't know scott what do you think about rebranding.

314
00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:35.160
Well again i don't even see this as rebranding this

315
00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:40.900
is renaming that's all this is and it's being i'm

316
00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:44.490
gonna go back to my my great america story you

317
00:18:44.509 --> 00:18:47.509
know being a kid who first started going to Marriott's

318
00:18:47.549 --> 00:18:50.190
great America, then went to Paramount's great America. Then for

319
00:18:50.309 --> 00:18:52.869
one year, went to Bali's great America. And just recently

320
00:18:53.210 --> 00:18:57.509
went to six flags, great America. Um, I, I, I

321
00:18:57.529 --> 00:18:59.970
think putting the six flags name on it is fine. I, the,

322
00:19:01.150 --> 00:19:04.670
especially since six flags throughout its history has expanded and contracted,

323
00:19:04.690 --> 00:19:07.130
they've bought, you know, they, they've gone through, I mean,

324
00:19:07.150 --> 00:19:08.769
we're going to buy tons of parks and then they

325
00:19:08.809 --> 00:19:12.039
end up selling them off to make, um, apartment buildings,

326
00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:16.329
Geauga Lake. Um, So it's a.

327
00:19:18.910 --> 00:19:21.569
Whatever they do, I think they need to be consistent

328
00:19:21.890 --> 00:19:25.730
with their renaming process. And since they already have something

329
00:19:25.789 --> 00:19:29.579
that most people will call Six Flags Great America, to me,

330
00:19:29.619 --> 00:19:31.680
the most logical thing to do is do Six Flags

331
00:19:31.700 --> 00:19:36.180
Cedar Point and Six Flags Knott's Bray Farm and Six Flags...

332
00:19:36.599 --> 00:19:38.140
So that you just put the six flags in front

333
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:40.579
of it. You make it a smaller font. If somebody

334
00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:42.880
calls it Knott's Bray Farm, that's great. If somebody calls

335
00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:46.069
it Um, Cedar point, that's fine, but it's full it's

336
00:19:46.150 --> 00:19:50.069
official name is six flags, Cedar point, because I I

337
00:19:50.109 --> 00:19:54.069
think it's important from a... Here's where the branding element

338
00:19:54.109 --> 00:19:56.349
comes in. I think it's important from a branding, a

339
00:19:56.430 --> 00:19:58.569
corporate branding or an umbrella branding for the whole thing

340
00:19:58.589 --> 00:20:03.230
that people realize Six Flags owns a ton of parks

341
00:20:03.490 --> 00:20:09.200
in this country. And I think it gives them more

342
00:20:09.359 --> 00:20:16.089
clout Um, maybe not to the, the, the least involved

343
00:20:16.170 --> 00:20:20.109
frontline people, but at least the next level up, you know, um,

344
00:20:20.289 --> 00:20:22.150
I can't call it, I can't call it just great

345
00:20:22.170 --> 00:20:24.710
America simply because it was such a big deal when

346
00:20:24.730 --> 00:20:28.990
Marriott sold it the first time, um, that it went to,

347
00:20:29.579 --> 00:20:31.279
I think it went to Paramount first and then Bally's,

348
00:20:31.299 --> 00:20:33.299
but it might've been Bally's first and then Paramount. I

349
00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:36.940
don't know. Um, but it is truly six flags, great America.

350
00:20:37.809 --> 00:20:40.789
in my brain. That is the full name, and it's

351
00:20:40.809 --> 00:20:45.890
something that we went through multiple naming processes, and maybe

352
00:20:45.930 --> 00:20:48.380
that's why it's so stuck in my brain that I

353
00:20:48.410 --> 00:20:52.380
had to figure out, okay, wait, who owns it now? Yeah,

354
00:20:53.059 --> 00:20:57.220
I think that going to Six Flags over in northern Ohio,

355
00:20:57.339 --> 00:20:59.299
I think, is just about as sexy as a turd,

356
00:20:59.380 --> 00:21:04.529
so I wouldn't do that one at all. And I

357
00:21:04.569 --> 00:21:07.920
think that there's no point in There's no point in

358
00:21:08.200 --> 00:21:14.049
angering those folks who want to continue to build off

359
00:21:14.089 --> 00:21:21.789
of the history of either Cedar Point or Knott's or whatever.

360
00:21:21.809 --> 00:21:24.390
These parks have history to them, and they have people

361
00:21:24.430 --> 00:21:27.950
who are very invested in that history. So adding the

362
00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:30.039
Six Flags name to be the beginning of it, to me,

363
00:21:30.119 --> 00:21:34.500
is just respectful to the history of the park itself.

364
00:21:35.079 --> 00:21:35.819
That is my opinion.

365
00:21:36.579 --> 00:21:43.170
Yep. Okay. Well, again, another story that we're just going

366
00:21:43.190 --> 00:21:45.220
to have to wait and see what happens so they

367
00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:47.160
can change the name, how they can change it. I

368
00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:50.319
could agree with the Six Flags, like kind of with

369
00:21:50.339 --> 00:21:55.319
the little apostrophe at the end, like Six Flags Great

370
00:21:55.339 --> 00:21:57.250
America or Six Flags Cedar Fair, you know, kind of

371
00:21:57.269 --> 00:22:02.230
like showing that possessive apostrophe. I could see that being fine.

372
00:22:02.309 --> 00:22:06.289
And just make it consistent throughout the company. Just make

373
00:22:06.329 --> 00:22:10.250
it consistent throughout the company so that you're not... One

374
00:22:10.269 --> 00:22:13.289
of them is not Six Flags Great America, and the

375
00:22:13.329 --> 00:22:17.109
next one is Cedar Point, a Six Flags experience. What

376
00:22:17.130 --> 00:22:17.849
the hell is that?

377
00:22:17.869 --> 00:22:28.519
I agree. Okay. So next, there's just been some development

378
00:22:28.599 --> 00:22:32.200
over at Mattel, and I just... It's very confusing to me.

379
00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:37.210
So we talked... a long time ago, we've talked for

380
00:22:37.230 --> 00:22:40.250
a while about the Mattel Adventure Parks, right? The first

381
00:22:40.329 --> 00:22:44.390
one was announced and planned for Arizona and it just

382
00:22:44.470 --> 00:22:46.450
has not opened, right? I mean, it was planned for

383
00:22:46.450 --> 00:22:50.430
2023 when we talked about it. And since then, they've

384
00:22:50.490 --> 00:22:54.890
announced six sites in the United States, four water parks

385
00:22:54.950 --> 00:22:58.829
and two theme parks, and planning a fifth water park

386
00:22:58.910 --> 00:23:01.470
and none of these have opened, right? And they just

387
00:23:01.529 --> 00:23:04.890
keep doing these announcements and talking about it and the

388
00:23:04.910 --> 00:23:07.829
reason I bring this up is because we got details

389
00:23:08.750 --> 00:23:10.690
this week or last week, whenever you guys are listening

390
00:23:10.710 --> 00:23:15.039
to this, but of the one that's going into Nebraska, it's,

391
00:23:15.339 --> 00:23:18.339
they said it's going to open in 2027 and they

392
00:23:19.079 --> 00:23:22.660
released renderings of what, and the list of attractions of

393
00:23:22.680 --> 00:23:23.640
what it's going to include. It's going to have a

394
00:23:23.700 --> 00:23:26.380
Barbie pool, a hot wheel slide tower, a Fisher price,

395
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:29.900
water play structure, et cetera. So they're kind of saying

396
00:23:29.940 --> 00:23:31.420
it's going to open in 2027 and putting this out there.

397
00:23:31.640 --> 00:23:34.029
And the only thing I would say that's different about

398
00:23:34.049 --> 00:23:37.680
this one, maybe, is that the city of Bellevue had

399
00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:39.940
planned to do a water park, and it looks like

400
00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:43.440
they just added the Mattel IP onto it because they

401
00:23:43.460 --> 00:23:48.599
had already raised bonds to pay for it. It's a

402
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:52.589
city-owned building and structure, and they had been raising bonds.

403
00:23:53.049 --> 00:23:56.390
They raised 110 million total for the water park, 60

404
00:23:56.390 --> 00:23:58.829
in 2024, 60 million of that, and then 50 million

405
00:23:58.849 --> 00:24:08.619
in September to finish this next phase. So yeah, I just,

406
00:24:09.240 --> 00:24:15.609
this is just, I mean, this might, this version, you know, I,

407
00:24:16.769 --> 00:24:19.609
I didn't look into all the other deal structures for

408
00:24:19.630 --> 00:24:22.509
all the other announcements. I just remember that the one,

409
00:24:22.650 --> 00:24:25.849
the original one in Arizona, when we talked about that last,

410
00:24:25.910 --> 00:24:29.960
it was basically where they were blaming the builder for

411
00:24:30.000 --> 00:24:32.099
delays in that, in that kind of thing, like the,

412
00:24:32.579 --> 00:24:36.490
the fabricating studio. But this one, I don't know. Part

413
00:24:37.690 --> 00:24:38.690
of me is like, we just want to be done

414
00:24:38.730 --> 00:24:41.029
with this. I don't know why people keep doing this,

415
00:24:41.109 --> 00:24:47.619
but I think in this case, if it's city-owned and

416
00:24:47.630 --> 00:24:50.799
the city's paying for it and they're just licensing the

417
00:24:51.240 --> 00:24:54.200
IP that they were already planning on doing this indoor

418
00:24:54.220 --> 00:24:56.079
water park and they're licensing the IP, I think that's

419
00:24:56.740 --> 00:25:02.730
probably going to work because it seems less waffling, I guess,

420
00:25:02.769 --> 00:25:06.299
than some of the other projects, but I don't know.

421
00:25:06.380 --> 00:25:09.029
I just, I don't know why we keep doing it.

422
00:25:09.650 --> 00:25:12.150
It's like, I can't tell who really wants this adventure,

423
00:25:12.390 --> 00:25:14.730
this Mattel thing. It's like, is it Mattel or is

424
00:25:14.750 --> 00:25:17.950
it the other people or who, who's, who's, I don't know, Scott,

425
00:25:17.970 --> 00:25:18.430
what do you think?

426
00:25:21.589 --> 00:25:24.630
Oh, I think it's just a way to keep investors happy. Um,

427
00:25:25.710 --> 00:25:28.069
you know, when they, when they've invested in a new

428
00:25:28.109 --> 00:25:34.359
park and whether the investors are internal or external, um,

429
00:25:35.150 --> 00:25:38.849
they get excited again when they see, oh, look, we've

430
00:25:38.890 --> 00:25:44.890
announced and we've released drawings. Because again, I don't want

431
00:25:44.910 --> 00:25:46.609
to say keeps them on the hook. That's not a

432
00:25:46.630 --> 00:25:50.650
nice way of phrasing it. But it reinvigorates their interest

433
00:25:50.690 --> 00:25:52.819
in the project. That sounds so much more corporate and

434
00:25:52.859 --> 00:25:56.839
so much nicer. And it shows that, yes, we are

435
00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:59.420
moving forward. We may not be ready to open our doors.

436
00:25:59.460 --> 00:26:02.240
We may have just broken ground and perhaps have had

437
00:26:02.339 --> 00:26:08.029
a slight delay and something, something. Um, cause you know,

438
00:26:08.049 --> 00:26:10.210
building a park is hard and opening a park is

439
00:26:10.259 --> 00:26:13.099
hard and we all understand that, but I don't think

440
00:26:13.140 --> 00:26:17.539
everybody else does. And we also, as I mentioned earlier

441
00:26:17.559 --> 00:26:21.319
in this show, even our, our, the media cycles are

442
00:26:21.539 --> 00:26:25.670
so short that, you know, the only people who really remember, Hey,

443
00:26:25.690 --> 00:26:27.029
wait a minute. They said that was going to open

444
00:26:27.069 --> 00:26:29.890
and it hasn't yet are those of us in the

445
00:26:29.930 --> 00:26:33.400
industry who are actually tracking it and watching it. Because

446
00:26:33.539 --> 00:26:36.279
when they all of a sudden turn out the opening announcement,

447
00:26:37.099 --> 00:26:40.019
I would guess, and maybe I'm being optimistic, but I

448
00:26:40.029 --> 00:26:42.220
would guess maybe 50% would go, oh, I heard something

449
00:26:42.269 --> 00:26:44.329
about that. And the other 50% is, oh, that's great.

450
00:26:44.349 --> 00:26:46.569
There's going to be a new park. Completely forgetting that

451
00:26:46.589 --> 00:26:52.329
they ever heard anything about it to begin with. So, yeah,

452
00:26:53.170 --> 00:26:56.170
I wish that they could get at least one open

453
00:26:57.490 --> 00:27:01.269
so that people could start talking about the quality of

454
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:06.920
you know, as we have said in every single episode

455
00:27:06.940 --> 00:27:10.200
that's ever included an announcement, it all comes down to

456
00:27:10.240 --> 00:27:12.200
the quality. It all comes down to how, how well

457
00:27:12.220 --> 00:27:15.220
it's put together because, you know, I look at the renderings, um,

458
00:27:15.480 --> 00:27:19.589
in Phillips article and the renderings are lovely. They look great.

459
00:27:19.609 --> 00:27:22.509
They look like a lot of fun, but I've also

460
00:27:23.109 --> 00:27:27.509
seen renderings and then compared them to the actual, um,

461
00:27:29.269 --> 00:27:33.029
the actual experience. Um, and you don't want to run

462
00:27:33.049 --> 00:27:37.849
into another, you know, Willy Wonka disaster. So, um, we'll see.

463
00:27:37.869 --> 00:27:40.049
I just want them to open so that we can see,

464
00:27:40.250 --> 00:27:42.509
are these renderings accurate? Are they fun? Are they going

465
00:27:42.529 --> 00:27:45.430
to really get us where we need to go? Or

466
00:27:46.089 --> 00:27:50.950
are we just continuing to give Mattel something to talk about, um,

467
00:27:51.309 --> 00:27:55.849
for the last, what is it? Four years, um, about

468
00:27:55.890 --> 00:27:58.470
parks that never opened. So I don't know.

469
00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:09.480
Yeah. Well, let's finish up with some... I guess some

470
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:14.700
news from the Disney... I'm not sure this matters. We'll

471
00:28:14.740 --> 00:28:18.599
talk about it. I'm sure you all have seen that

472
00:28:19.339 --> 00:28:24.400
Bob Chapek has a new book that came out. I

473
00:28:24.440 --> 00:28:29.980
haven't read it yet. Sorry. That's probably a December-January task.

474
00:28:30.059 --> 00:28:33.849
But Basically, I think the thing that is making headlines

475
00:28:34.109 --> 00:28:37.450
is that in the book, he talks about... He gives

476
00:28:37.490 --> 00:28:39.730
an actual number we've never had before, but he gives

477
00:28:39.769 --> 00:28:43.430
a number saying that they had 1.1 million annual pass

478
00:28:43.450 --> 00:28:45.569
holders at the time that he was there. And the

479
00:28:45.630 --> 00:28:48.769
context is he's talking about it in the price increase situation.

480
00:28:48.809 --> 00:28:51.109
So he was like, you know, we had 1.1 million.

481
00:28:51.430 --> 00:28:55.750
I increased the prices. And then his little snarky comment

482
00:28:55.789 --> 00:29:03.390
here is basically... that they complained a lot. So when

483
00:29:03.410 --> 00:29:06.089
you announce price increase to over 1 million customers, some

484
00:29:06.109 --> 00:29:08.490
of them are going to complain, and they did. That's

485
00:29:08.529 --> 00:29:11.609
mostly all they did, though. When I announced the first

486
00:29:11.650 --> 00:29:14.509
round of the price increases on annual passes, Disneyland had 1.1

487
00:29:14.509 --> 00:29:17.170
million pass holders. After the first round of increases, the

488
00:29:17.210 --> 00:29:19.509
number of annual pass holders dropped to 1 million, but

489
00:29:19.549 --> 00:29:22.430
revenue increased due to the higher ticket prices. I consider

490
00:29:22.450 --> 00:29:25.619
that a huge win. So the context is talking about

491
00:29:26.630 --> 00:29:29.490
What we've already talked about for a while, which is

492
00:29:29.809 --> 00:29:36.970
how the price insensitive that the Disneyland fans are. Where

493
00:29:36.990 --> 00:29:39.029
they had 1.1 million, he raised prices, it dropped a

494
00:29:39.049 --> 00:29:41.569
little bit, but not enough. and they actually ended up

495
00:29:41.650 --> 00:29:45.109
making more because they still had a million and it counterbalanced,

496
00:29:45.509 --> 00:29:49.390
the price increase counterbalanced those less people. I was trying

497
00:29:49.410 --> 00:29:52.279
to figure out how this squares with everything, and the

498
00:29:52.380 --> 00:29:56.200
issue is we still don't really know because the TEA

499
00:29:56.859 --> 00:30:00.619
index report that we have, which kind of I think

500
00:30:00.710 --> 00:30:06.720
pegs them at about 17.3 million visitors annually, 17.3 million

501
00:30:07.079 --> 00:30:09.019
to 18 million. On its surface, you're like, oh, well,

502
00:30:09.059 --> 00:30:13.380
that's less because it's like, well, there's 18 million and

503
00:30:13.400 --> 00:30:17.420
there's 1.1 million. That's a smaller percentage than you think. However,

504
00:30:17.819 --> 00:30:20.720
that figure is measuring like the total visitors. So like

505
00:30:20.819 --> 00:30:24.750
turnstile clicks, right? the real question is how many times

506
00:30:24.789 --> 00:30:28.769
do annual pass holders attend the parks? So that's the

507
00:30:28.809 --> 00:30:31.849
number you got to kind of multiply out. And, you know,

508
00:30:31.890 --> 00:30:35.410
Six Flags has said they are targeting four times. And

509
00:30:35.430 --> 00:30:38.670
so I would say Disney is usually more. So if

510
00:30:38.710 --> 00:30:41.559
you say five or six, then that's like 6 million

511
00:30:41.690 --> 00:30:46.960
out of the 18 million. So I don't know where it's,

512
00:30:47.180 --> 00:30:49.839
it's still a chunk, I guess is the point. And

513
00:30:51.519 --> 00:30:54.880
The only other thing we have is a UBS analysis

514
00:30:54.920 --> 00:30:59.940
in 2021 estimated that roughly half of that visitation number

515
00:31:00.000 --> 00:31:02.380
is annual pass holders. But it may or may not be.

516
00:31:02.420 --> 00:31:04.569
And again, this is many years old. So it's just

517
00:31:04.630 --> 00:31:09.150
interesting to still have this context of thinking about the

518
00:31:09.190 --> 00:31:10.049
visitors at the park.

519
00:31:10.630 --> 00:31:12.869
And the real bottom line is any park has to

520
00:31:13.049 --> 00:31:18.150
balance out its season pass visitation numbers. with its unique

521
00:31:18.190 --> 00:31:22.759
individual ticket visitation. Because one is kind of money in

522
00:31:22.779 --> 00:31:26.440
the bank and the other is additional in-park spending. So

523
00:31:26.819 --> 00:31:28.440
you have to find that balance. You have to figure

524
00:31:28.500 --> 00:31:30.839
out what is that balance that is right for your

525
00:31:30.880 --> 00:31:34.279
park and what is right for your demographic. And what

526
00:31:34.299 --> 00:31:36.240
is right for our demographic is that we keep our

527
00:31:36.259 --> 00:31:39.309
shows about 30 minutes long. And guess what? We've already

528
00:31:39.369 --> 00:31:42.230
exceeded that. So we're done for this episode of Green

529
00:31:42.250 --> 00:31:44.829
Tag Theme Park in 30. On behalf of Philip Hernandez

530
00:31:44.849 --> 00:31:47.670
with Gantem Lighting and Controls and myself, Scott Swenson, with

531
00:31:47.690 --> 00:31:50.230
Scott Swenson Creative Development, this is Green Tag Theme Park

532
00:31:50.269 --> 00:31:52.319
in 30, and we will see you next week.

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