Dec. 23, 2024

Cruising into the Future: Tokyo’s Plans and China’s Momentum

Oriental Land expands cruises as China's Tourism Recovers; both underscore global trends toward experiential, human-centric attractions—but did the U.S. get that memo?

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Tokyo Disneyland operator Oriental Land unveiled an ambitious USD 2.1 billion plan to launch an "offshore theme park" cruise by 2028, aiming to reduce its reliance on Maihama operations. This approach mirrors Disney's investment in cruises, which we discussed last week. While Disney has a smaller share of the cruise market, it has significantly less debt. Attendance rates rose from 63% in 2022 to 97% in 2024. Meanwhile, China's theme parks drive inbound tourism, now ranking alongside iconic attractions like the Great Wall and the Palace Museum. These significant shifts underscore global trends toward experiential, human-centric attractions—but did the U.S. get that memo?

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WEBVTT

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Okay from our studios this week in Los Angeles in Tampa. Again,

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we're still at home. This is Green tag them Park

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in thirty. I'm Philip. I'm joined as always by my

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co host Scott Swinson of Scott Swinson Creative Development.

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Scott.

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This week, you know, we have not really a follow

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up but sort of a related story to last week's

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story about the Disney Treasure coming out. We talked last

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week about the Disney Treasure and all of the incredible

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on ship experiences, and this week I thought we talked

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about an expansion that the Tokyo Disneyland operator Oriental Land

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Group plans to do. So, just for clarity, this is

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the Tokyo dis Land operator Oriental Land. It's not Disney itself.

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But yeah, you know, but it might as well be.

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Based on this story, they're kind of following following suit,

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it appears.

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Yeah, I think they're definitely taking the same direction, and

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they kind of explained more about it. What I liked

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about this story is, I want to say, in typical

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Japanese fashion, but I don't know if that's entirely correct,

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but it's the they're pretty transparent about to the reasonings

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for what they were trying to do here, so or

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into land. Plans to invest about US two billion. It's

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it's a different conversion, but after you conversion it right now,

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it's about two billion, which is a lot the US

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dollars into cruise operations. To drive medium to long term growth,

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the company intends to create an offshore theme park. They

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quite literally did say offshore theme park in the interview here.

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They plan to create an offshore theme park experience on

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a cruise ship, which is expected to start services by

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twenty twenty eight. The cruises will last you to four nights,

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departing from Tokyo Port. The company aims to develop the

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cruise ship tour business into a new revenue stream, reducing

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its reliance on the Mahama operations. Mahama is the tourism

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area there. For clarity, it contains Tokyot is Land, took

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it to DC and then the it's like basically all

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the area within the loop, you know, it's all on

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that that loop, the like subway loop, the Mahama stop.

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So it's the loop that goes around the two parts.

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It's the equivalent to it's the equivalent to Yes Island

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in Abu Dhabi, it's the equivalent to iDrive in Orlando,

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it's the yeah yeah.

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So basically, too much of their revenue is coming from

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that one area. They're not diversified at all, so they're like,

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we need to diversify, and so they're choosing cruises to

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diversify into. A Critical factor that they talked about was

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whether they can cultivate a cruise culture that is distinctly

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Japanese as opposed to the I think some of the

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American models that we have, and demand for cruises there

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in Japan has traditionally been limited to affluent, older adults,

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so that's going to be another challenge for them, is

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to broaden the appeal of the cruise culture to targeting

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younger users and families, who coincidentally make up the core

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of visitors to Tokyo Disnem Resort and cited in the

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article of real link to is a professor there that

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studies tourism locally, and he says, compared with their overseas counterparts,

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Japanese visitors tends to tend to place greater value on

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the stories behind the theme parks, and it will be

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very important for the cruise ship tours to have strong

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links to the parks, which clearly they agree with, so

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I wanted to pair this. I know last week we

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talked about the Disney Treasure, but we didn't talk too

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much about the business of tourism or as tourism on sea,

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you know, overall, and just just some interesting perspectives. So

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Disney Crew Line is obviously much smaller than its competitors,

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but if you think about it, you know, Disney Disney

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is a diverse portfolio, and I think that's exactly what

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they're talking about here, is the diversification, which is in

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this instance actually turns out I think to be good

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in this.

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Era.

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Because the cruise lines that all they do is focus

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on cruises, they have a lot of debt. We're talking

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like twenty billion dollars in debt or in excess because

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of COVID, and they had to go so much into

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debt and they had that there was such a disruption.

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But because Disney was diversified, there they're struggle. They have

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a much lower amount of debt. I think it's about

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one point two or two billion for the crew sector,

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so it's significantly lower. Now they have much less ships

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and much less market share. But because it's part of

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a larger company and it's just one leg. You know, overall,

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it's doing a lot better because they're able to you know,

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combine their assets, so they're all What they're also doing

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is we didn't talk about this last week, but they're

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reducing their content budget for Disney Plus. So presumably that's

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to help with making Disney Plus more profitable because they're

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reducing four point five billion out of the content budget,

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but they probably also realized that Disney Plus subscribers are

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going to stay subscribed even if they don't pour like

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twenty billion dollars of money into new content. But basically

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what they're doing is taking some of that money out

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of there and they're investing it into the cruise shifts,

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which we talked about Disney Treasure.

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But right, but again this is what this is what

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we've been saying for for months and months and months,

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and that is that they should be spent money on

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what's earning money and instead of spending money on trying

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to make something that is losing money earn money. And

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they're it's it's this, this is a final This finally

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makes sense. But but to stay focused on the cruise

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ship thing, it's you know, as you said, it's it's

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similar to and I want to go back, you know,

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I want to go back in history even further before

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Disney Cruise Lines. Disney was affiliated with Carnival and it

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was the Big Red Boat, and they tested the market

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to see if vacationers to Walt Disney World in Florida

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would also do cruises and they'd be able to package

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them together. And in fact, early on, you could not

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do a Big Red Boat or a Disney cruise without

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a two to three day stay at Walt Disney World.

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So they actually linked the two together. They linked the

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two together without I mean, there was no there was

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no other option. I mean we're seeing this with Epic

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University Universal now too, where they're kind of linking two

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products together so they don't steal from they don't rob

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Peter to pay Paul. But in this particular case, it

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sounds kind of like the same idea, but they're approaching

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it differently based on where we are in the world today.

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You know, one of the things when when Disney started

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to do Disney cruises and Disney Cruise Line started, they

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basically said, you know, this is for children and families

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and everybody thought, Oh, it's the kiddy cruise line, and

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you choose your cruise line based on your demographic and

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your age, and so it sounds like they're trying to

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establish that as well, because again, as the article states,

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they're all the cruise market in Japan is primarily older affluent,

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which is exactly what it was here in the US.

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And then Disney started to speed to spread out, as

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did Carnival because of their early affiliation with Disney. So

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I think it's interesting that they're following a model that

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has worked in the past. The one thing that you've

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read that that raises my eyebrow is these cruises are

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two to four days. That seems remarkably short.

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Yeah.

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Well, I just want to encapsulate that these are similar

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strategies but different, right, because we're looking at two different companies,

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Oriental Land versus Disney as a whole.

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I think that's exactly why.

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But what I'm saying is, I think that's why the

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Disney model.

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So I think that's why.

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It's because, like you mentioned, like Disney is at a

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different point in this cruise excursion or cruise whatever expansion

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where they're able, like we talked about last time, to

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add on longer trips as alternatives to Disney vacations. But

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I think what Oriental is trying to do is diversify.

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So I think that part.

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Think what you're doing is they're going back and following

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the exact same model that Disney did when they first

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started doing cruises.

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Correct, correct, Yeah, so basically they're like and also to

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make it more accessible to younger audiences too, because right

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so basically I think they're they're they're basically looking at

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it and saying, we have all these people that come

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to Myhama and they do come to Disney, so what

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we're trying to do is capture them for like a

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two day cruise to do that as an alternative or

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on top of the Disney they're going to do. Anyway,

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I don't think they're targeting. It doesn't seem like at

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least they're targeting like a lot of international or visitors yet.

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And I'm sure again they'll follow the same model where

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there they'll add more ships eventually and maybe target people

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to come to Japan via cruise and then go to

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Disney and do a whole Mahama integration thing. But it

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seems like right now they're just trying to get people

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locally to go on additional cruises so that everything isn't

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dependent on the Mahama area, which is I think exactly

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what Disney started off doing and then ex expanded now

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into longer, longer cruise nights.

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I'm kind of looking at this as the newest version

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of Galactic Star Cruiser. I mean, I really think it's

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an add on. I really think it's an add on

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to the established Disney c and Disney Tokyo.

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Yeah, for two nights, I mean that's the thing, Like

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two nights. It's like, that's not that's a staycation. Basically, well,

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that's not a cruise.

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That's that's you know, that is a theme park at sea.

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And and most you know, like in the US, for example,

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two and three night cruises are what are often called

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the cruise to nowhere because they go out into the water,

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they don't really stop anywhere, they have no other port

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other than their home porte. This happens in Florida. They

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go out into the Gulf. It's a party cruise basically

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now in much of in much of Florida, and there's

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a couple that say all out of Tampa that do that.

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I will say, those are getting less and less popular here,

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but again, we're at different points in the progression here,

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and and I think that, you know, when they say

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theme park at Sea, I think they're What they're really

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trying to do is exactly what Disney was trying to

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do when they first started venturing into the world of

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cruise lines, and that was, here's an add on to

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your theme park experience. Here's the way to make your

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theme park experience more robust. Longer, you know, the longer,

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the longer you stay. And let's be honest, when you're

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on a cruise ship, every dime you spend goes to

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the parent company, so especially on short cruises that don't

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have any ports or have few ports. So yeah, it's

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it it to me, you know, looking back at how

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Disney first started, other than the fact that Disney piloted

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it with an existing cruise line, it appears to me

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that they are trying to follow that same model but

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at a different but starting at a different time, a

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different point in the time. And they're starting when Disney started,

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not where Disney is now.

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Yep.

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Yeah, we look at Disney and I think.

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Something like you're saying, it's interesting to think about because

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I was thinking of doing this, I was like, well,

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you know, looking at how far Disney has come, They've

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come really far with their cruises, you know, to your point, like,

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I think this is essentially just the first trip or

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the first the first foray for Oriental Land. But like

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we look at how far Disney's come. Maybe we don't

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think about it as much, but they you know, they

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have their own ports, and they've developed the whole theme

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park model ecosystem, but for cruises, which.

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I think is relatively unique.

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I mean, other other cruises will like share ports or

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there's this and that, but Disney is like, no, we're

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doing our own ports.

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And Disney Disney has actually led the way. I mean,

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all other cruise lines now have their own private islands.

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Carnival is is adding them left and right, Royal Caribbean

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is adding them left and right. But it was Disney

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that first started that idea, that concept of creating their

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own their own private islands. Now other cruise lines will

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claim that they did, but they really didn't. Basically what

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they did was they had a private beach. You know,

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they basically took over a short excursion. But but Disney

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really made it their own and and and set the standard,

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you know, set the standard for the rest of the

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of the cruise lines. You know, I've I've got we've

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got a cruise planned for early January. And you know,

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it's it's always interesting to me to look at what

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the cruise industry is doing. We're pretty easy because we

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keep going back to the old style cruise on the

239
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smaller ships that can get into more unique ports. And uh,

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you know, and and we actually do not go on

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Disney cruise lines simply because we want to avoid the

242
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families and small children. So uh, it's it's a it's

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interesting that that this is the the model here that

244
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it's to me, it's just a giant flashback. It's just

245
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a giant flashback to whin Disney first started entering into

246
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the world of cruise lines. And uh, you know, I

247
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I obviously it makes sense because it's worked for Disney.

248
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They have become the in some in many ways, the

249
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trailblazers for the for the cruise line industry. So hopefully

250
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this will be this will be as successful for them

251
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as as it has been for Disney over the years.

252
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Yeah, I think I think we'll just have to wait

253
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and see how successful it will be, but the numbers

254
00:12:54.639 --> 00:12:58.360
are trending in that direction. This wasn't in either of

255
00:12:58.360 --> 00:13:00.960
these articles, but separately, out side of outside of this,

256
00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:03.279
there's reporting that came out of this last week about

257
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the growth of the tourism of the cruise tourism industry,

258
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and essentially it's up six percent from twenty nineteen, so

259
00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:16.080
from the peak of cruising, it's up six percent to

260
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thirty five point seven million in twenty twenty four, and

261
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they expect that trend to continue potentially into the same

262
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amount of growth. So I mean, that's that's.

263
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A lot of new cruisers.

264
00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:29.039
It makes total sense to me because once again we've

265
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talked so much about immersive, immersive entertainment experiences, and you know,

266
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instead of instead of going to Epcot and taking the

267
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Mexico ride, take a ship and go to Mexico, you know.

268
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So I think that I think that pendulum is swinging back.

269
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So it's not the we want, the we want the

270
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homogenized version or the dim sum version. You know, travel

271
00:13:54.679 --> 00:13:58.320
has become so quick and so easy and really more

272
00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:03.639
accessible than it was even fifty years ago. So it

273
00:14:03.720 --> 00:14:06.559
makes total sense that cruises are trending up because they

274
00:14:06.600 --> 00:14:09.720
are experiential. They're not something that you sit and watch.

275
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When you go out on a cruise ship, you get

276
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pelted with wind and you smell the sea air and

277
00:14:14.879 --> 00:14:17.840
you know, you feel the ocean beneath you. It's not

278
00:14:18.440 --> 00:14:22.120
like watching a movie of an ocean. Yeah, So I

279
00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:23.879
also make sense that it's trending up.

280
00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:27.759
Yeah, and I think there's something to that extension where

281
00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:31.879
I guess it's again we talked about this last time,

282
00:14:31.879 --> 00:14:33.120
but it's kind of like the opposite of what you

283
00:14:33.120 --> 00:14:35.080
were saying about, like the whole app thing where you

284
00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:36.679
have to there's so much planning you have to like,

285
00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:42.120
you know, there's I think it's it's it's become quite

286
00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:47.240
a quite a thing, right to have to put there's

287
00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:49.000
so much plan that has to go into anything that

288
00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:50.519
you're going to go to, even if you're going to

289
00:14:50.519 --> 00:14:53.240
just the Universal Studios Hollywood, which is a small park,

290
00:14:53.279 --> 00:14:56.519
but you know, look at how much planning has to

291
00:14:56.519 --> 00:14:59.080
go into Tokyo Disney, especially with the Disney Springs. I

292
00:14:59.120 --> 00:15:01.679
mean that there's like there's so much like you have

293
00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:04.120
to learn and think about and do and plan and

294
00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:06.200
then if you're trying to bring a family with you

295
00:15:06.639 --> 00:15:09.279
it's like, you know, there's always that one person, right,

296
00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:10.919
It's like, oh, there's so much work on that one

297
00:15:10.960 --> 00:15:14.240
person to have to coordinate people, especially if you're trying

298
00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:17.000
to go to a foreign country and deal with Tokyo

299
00:15:17.039 --> 00:15:20.039
Disney and deal with all of how to get into

300
00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:22.759
Disney Springs and the reservation system and the ride passes

301
00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:28.200
and all that. And alternatively, the cruise is basically pretty easy,

302
00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:31.879
like once you get there, there's no additional travel required,

303
00:15:31.960 --> 00:15:34.120
there's not as much walking, there's no I mean, it's

304
00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:38.960
really like a curated itinerary, which I think could is

305
00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:42.440
It's like as seam parks become more and more complicated

306
00:15:42.440 --> 00:15:45.120
because they become more and more crowded, this becomes almost

307
00:15:45.120 --> 00:15:48.519
like an interesting alternative you know, that's being driven by

308
00:15:48.679 --> 00:15:50.360
like one drives the other in a way.

309
00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:53.600
Yep, No, I agree. I think, like I said, I

310
00:15:53.639 --> 00:15:58.799
think this is I think this is a I think

311
00:15:58.840 --> 00:16:02.480
this is a great opportunity that they can learn a

312
00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:07.600
great deal from how the cruise industry has has expanded

313
00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:13.279
and evolved over the last few well last twenty thirty

314
00:16:13.399 --> 00:16:16.519
forty years, and I think they can do it quickly.

315
00:16:16.639 --> 00:16:19.480
But it still looks like they're starting, at least theoretically

316
00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:24.639
back where you know, the theme park cruise merge started.

317
00:16:24.879 --> 00:16:27.600
Yeah, yea, yeah, okay, well makes sense to me.

318
00:16:28.159 --> 00:16:29.679
The last thing I was going to say, just really

319
00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:32.519
really quick, is another thing I noticed about this, which

320
00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:41.080
is Disney's ability to like generate content I think I

321
00:16:41.120 --> 00:16:44.000
think from and maybe this is because of my bubble,

322
00:16:44.120 --> 00:16:47.080
So this is more anecdotal, but it seems to me

323
00:16:47.320 --> 00:16:50.639
like the other alternative cruise companies, even though they are

324
00:16:50.919 --> 00:16:53.759
larger in that sector and they have you know, more

325
00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:57.840
established brands in cruising, it seems like they garner a

326
00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:01.240
lot less media attention than Disney to and kind of

327
00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:05.400
Disney has this like media attention engine that includes a

328
00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:07.759
lot of its influencers and creators and all that, and

329
00:17:07.799 --> 00:17:10.079
so like what they did with the Treasure, which is

330
00:17:10.119 --> 00:17:14.720
where they're like essentially hosting all these media like it

331
00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:17.119
was an enormous amount of publicity they generated for this,

332
00:17:17.160 --> 00:17:20.680
which I think helps them, but also the other other people,

333
00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:23.079
like it helps all the cruise industry where it's almost like,

334
00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:25.960
you know, Disney gets so much attention for their theme

335
00:17:26.000 --> 00:17:28.680
parks when they just make a new turo right and

336
00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:31.319
they can like harness some of that to turn it

337
00:17:31.359 --> 00:17:34.920
into additional demand for this other cruise as well, which

338
00:17:35.319 --> 00:17:38.640
helps you know, there's no this definitely will be helping

339
00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:41.359
Toko Disney, because I'm sure that there's plenty of people

340
00:17:41.400 --> 00:17:44.359
who just see this cruise plan and they don't realize

341
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:47.039
it's not Disney just because it has the name Toko

342
00:17:47.039 --> 00:17:50.200
Disney Resort Operator or into Land, like people are just

343
00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:52.359
they're going to just kind of so it's almost like

344
00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:54.680
it's a halo effect. I think they're getting a lot

345
00:17:54.720 --> 00:17:59.400
of ability to tap into just because of the proximity

346
00:17:59.440 --> 00:17:59.920
to the brand.

347
00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:01.799
Well, and the question that I had too is, you know,

348
00:18:01.880 --> 00:18:03.880
it says in the article that they are are going

349
00:18:03.880 --> 00:18:08.039
to do character shows during meals. Are these Disney IP

350
00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:11.000
or are these separate, separate, separate intellectual properties.

351
00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:14.720
We don't know yet, is the short answer to that,

352
00:18:16.799 --> 00:18:19.960
Because obviously they have announced any of their actual plans,

353
00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:22.759
so it'll be really interesting to know, like how does

354
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:26.119
you know obviously they have the franchise agreement with Disney,

355
00:18:26.440 --> 00:18:29.200
but like how is that going to expand? And I'm

356
00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:31.960
sure that Disney's going to want to carefully curate it

357
00:18:32.039 --> 00:18:34.279
because of again, because of the treasure and because of

358
00:18:34.319 --> 00:18:36.359
the it's like they're you know, if Disney's known for

359
00:18:36.480 --> 00:18:38.920
doing this Maana show in this way, are they really

360
00:18:38.960 --> 00:18:41.759
going to let a franchise ee do it, you know,

361
00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:45.519
a different version of Mahana and potentially cause confusion you know,

362
00:18:45.960 --> 00:18:47.319
I don't know. Yeah.

363
00:18:47.640 --> 00:18:49.039
Well, and the nice thing is they've already got the

364
00:18:49.039 --> 00:18:51.079
working relationship. I mean, you know, as you say, they're

365
00:18:51.119 --> 00:18:56.160
already really a franchise e for for Disney c and

366
00:18:56.160 --> 00:18:58.200
and and Tokyo Disney.

367
00:18:58.200 --> 00:19:01.599
So but then again, and they have their own ips

368
00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:03.839
there at the park that they could you know, daw

369
00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:07.319
into or they could do something distinctly Japanese. Right, That's

370
00:19:08.279 --> 00:19:11.839
that's not necessarily anyway, it'll be interesting to follow that.

371
00:19:11.920 --> 00:19:15.440
But speaking of expansions into markets, we got a little

372
00:19:15.440 --> 00:19:19.440
bit more information out about China's tourism. We've talked about this,

373
00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:22.119
I think we talked about it previously a little bit,

374
00:19:22.319 --> 00:19:25.319
and there was some talk at Ayapa about this at

375
00:19:25.359 --> 00:19:29.119
the last APAC meeting about just the expansion and recovery

376
00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:34.079
of China. And it looks like the Tourism Ministry is

377
00:19:35.359 --> 00:19:38.359
putting out more information. It seems like they're trying to

378
00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:42.400
drive the conversation even further, but essentially a report came

379
00:19:42.440 --> 00:19:46.559
out from the tourism from the Tourism Ministry this last

380
00:19:46.599 --> 00:19:50.440
week saying that essentially the theme parks have become top

381
00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:55.000
destinations for inbound family travelers, ranking alongside the Palace Museum

382
00:19:55.039 --> 00:19:58.880
and the Great Wall in popularity and significantly boosting the economy.

383
00:19:58.880 --> 00:20:01.440
There's a new economic s It says, every one yon

384
00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:06.519
of park revenue generates eighteen point eighty in additional revenue

385
00:20:06.559 --> 00:20:11.119
across related industries, which is incredible. That's like that market

386
00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:15.119
is absolutely incredible. So the deputy director of the Beijing

387
00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:20.839
Ministry Municipal Bureau of Culture and Tourism, so this is

388
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:22.759
interesting here, this is why I put this in the article.

389
00:20:22.759 --> 00:20:26.519
But this part to me was like the classic Chinese

390
00:20:26.519 --> 00:20:28.799
way of saying a few things but meaning a lot

391
00:20:28.839 --> 00:20:34.079
of things. So the deputy director here says that the

392
00:20:34.119 --> 00:20:37.839
future direction of theme parks, the opportunities and challenges they present,

393
00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:41.920
and their impact on cities are topics that government agencies,

394
00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:46.720
the industry and businesses must carefully consider. The capital optimized

395
00:20:46.759 --> 00:20:50.920
planning to promote tourism development, flesh out tourist offerings and

396
00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:54.000
improved services to late visitor experiences through the growth. He

397
00:20:54.039 --> 00:20:59.160
also talks about how important it is for let me

398
00:20:59.279 --> 00:21:03.799
get the exact put on here, because the parks should

399
00:21:03.839 --> 00:21:09.160
offer more content rich and human centric products and services

400
00:21:09.519 --> 00:21:13.279
as travelers are placing greater emphasis on experiential, self focused

401
00:21:13.279 --> 00:21:16.240
tourism and spending. Those choice of words I think are

402
00:21:16.279 --> 00:21:19.839
going to be very important for our industry going forward.

403
00:21:20.599 --> 00:21:22.599
And I'm not sure again what direction that's going to take,

404
00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:26.559
because when I hear content rich and human centric products,

405
00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:30.640
that to me says like live entertainment, but live entertainment

406
00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:36.119
that again is focused on I guess like the Chinese culture,

407
00:21:36.200 --> 00:21:38.319
like the Chinese interpretation of the culture, or I mean,

408
00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:40.519
we talked about this with Halloween a long time ago, right,

409
00:21:40.519 --> 00:21:43.319
It's like, you know, you can do Halloween, but you

410
00:21:43.359 --> 00:21:45.640
have to do it in the Chinese way, in accordance

411
00:21:45.680 --> 00:21:48.319
with their cultural ministry and whatnot. And so I think,

412
00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:51.640
to me, that's kind of what I'm hearing, like celebration

413
00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:55.240
of cultural shows that are like Chinese culture.

414
00:21:56.400 --> 00:21:57.240
That's what I'm hearing.

415
00:21:57.519 --> 00:22:01.000
But well, you know, the you know the market, the

416
00:22:01.079 --> 00:22:03.599
Chinese market much better than I do. To me, it's

417
00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:06.079
just echoing what we're hearing everywhere, and that is that

418
00:22:06.400 --> 00:22:08.119
people want things to do, not things to look at.

419
00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:11.720
So make them, make them guess centric, make them human centric,

420
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:15.240
versus creating.

421
00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:18.920
It.

422
00:22:19.119 --> 00:22:21.519
To me, I think it does sort of lean into

423
00:22:22.440 --> 00:22:25.599
live entertainment, but I think it also leans into live

424
00:22:25.720 --> 00:22:30.720
integration into whatever you're trying to create, you know, creating

425
00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:35.720
these these experiences where guests are are doing things. Now,

426
00:22:36.119 --> 00:22:39.240
I'm not saying that they're they're going I'm not saying

427
00:22:39.240 --> 00:22:42.799
that that they are. That they aren't saying we need

428
00:22:42.839 --> 00:22:45.680
to do things that are China centric. That is, I

429
00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:52.119
totally get that, and and we'll see, we'll see how

430
00:22:52.160 --> 00:22:55.319
that pans out. I think that plays very well as

431
00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:56.920
long as they're not trying to bring in people from

432
00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:01.000
from outside of China. I think that place very very

433
00:23:01.079 --> 00:23:03.440
well with it when they're trying to find.

434
00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:06.240
Things inbound like yeah, yeah, inbound, yeah.

435
00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:10.680
Yeah, internal tourism. But as they as they start to grow,

436
00:23:10.759 --> 00:23:12.480
I mean, you look at some of the other hotbeds

437
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:16.519
of theme park right now, and they're looking outside of

438
00:23:16.519 --> 00:23:20.079
their countries to try to find experts and brands that

439
00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:26.359
they can bring into their countries. And so it's I'm

440
00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:28.000
curious to see how that evolves as well.

441
00:23:28.880 --> 00:23:33.039
Yeah, it's interesting because you know, you say that, we

442
00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:37.200
hear it everywhere. I think I'm not sure about that.

443
00:23:37.359 --> 00:23:42.400
Maybe I'm not because when I look at these two

444
00:23:42.519 --> 00:23:45.200
articles and they're taken as a pair, I think that

445
00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:47.960
you definitely see that echoing the same themes right where

446
00:23:47.960 --> 00:23:51.440
they're like, you know, you know, immersive, human centric in

447
00:23:51.519 --> 00:23:54.319
both what Japan's expansion with the with the cruises and

448
00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:58.000
also with the with this Chinese inbound tourism strategy.

449
00:23:59.519 --> 00:24:01.799
But I feel like the US is not about that

450
00:24:01.880 --> 00:24:02.200
at all.

451
00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:04.319
Like everywhere in the US they're like, we're going to

452
00:24:04.359 --> 00:24:06.240
have a new ride and it's going to be like

453
00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:11.359
the best ride ever, and they're like trying to cut

454
00:24:12.079 --> 00:24:14.559
staff and trying to cut live entertainment from like every

455
00:24:15.559 --> 00:24:16.599
element in the US.

456
00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:24.000
Interactive does not necessarily mean higher staff. Interactive can very

457
00:24:24.039 --> 00:24:28.400
easily mean technology. And I think the reason I say

458
00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:32.000
everyone's saying it is because you know, my world is

459
00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:35.720
is usually when when parks are coming to me to

460
00:24:35.759 --> 00:24:38.319
help develop new things, they're looking further down the line,

461
00:24:38.319 --> 00:24:41.519
things that haven't been announced yet, and without breaking any

462
00:24:41.559 --> 00:24:45.720
of my NDAs, I will say there is significantly more

463
00:24:45.799 --> 00:24:50.079
interest in stuff to do versus stuff to look at,

464
00:24:50.680 --> 00:24:56.000
stuff that surrounds us, creating worlds that is far more

465
00:24:56.720 --> 00:25:00.240
on the on the bleeding edge right now. Now. Whether

466
00:25:00.279 --> 00:25:02.839
that whether that works or not, I don't know. I

467
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:07.359
think what's going to happen is marketing has to get

468
00:25:07.400 --> 00:25:11.400
over has to find a way to explain what these

469
00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:15.599
things are. You know, like we talked about with with

470
00:25:15.599 --> 00:25:19.599
with with the galact Cruiser, they couldn't they couldn't say

471
00:25:19.599 --> 00:25:20.839
it was a larm because nobody knew what the hell

472
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:25.480
that meant. So I think that we have to that

473
00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:28.200
marketing has to find a way to communicate what things

474
00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:30.319
really are. It's really easy for marketing to say it's

475
00:25:30.319 --> 00:25:33.039
the biggest, it's the fastest, it's the loudest, it's the brightest,

476
00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:36.880
it's the you know, that's that's easy. That's low hanging

477
00:25:36.920 --> 00:25:39.640
fruit from a marketing standpoint, But it's also not what

478
00:25:39.920 --> 00:25:43.200
guests want to do repeatedly. They can they can go

479
00:25:43.279 --> 00:25:47.720
biggest and fastest. You know, I did Formula Rosa twice

480
00:25:48.000 --> 00:25:49.960
in six months while I was there, and I have

481
00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:51.519
no need to ever do it again, nor would it

482
00:25:51.559 --> 00:25:55.000
be a reason for me to go back. However, I

483
00:25:55.039 --> 00:25:59.480
would go back to to see I would go back

484
00:25:59.480 --> 00:26:01.200
to Well, I would go back to see the new

485
00:26:01.200 --> 00:26:04.799
Harry Potter installation when it opens at Warner Brothers World,

486
00:26:04.839 --> 00:26:08.000
because again, it plans to be significantly more immersive and interactive.

487
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:13.039
So the the immersiveness, the interactive qualities are what brings

488
00:26:13.160 --> 00:26:15.519
repeat visitation, and I think more and more companies are

489
00:26:15.519 --> 00:26:18.960
recognizing that in the US. I think the I think

490
00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:22.440
you're right. I think what we're seeing now is biggest, fastest,

491
00:26:22.559 --> 00:26:27.400
loudest ride ride, ride, ride ride again, because most of

492
00:26:27.119 --> 00:26:29.759
the parks in the US are driven by the marketing teams,

493
00:26:30.279 --> 00:26:34.039
and they they want stuff that they know how to market,

494
00:26:34.359 --> 00:26:38.960
and they're they're either afraid or don't know how to

495
00:26:39.880 --> 00:26:43.279
change their strategy in order to explain to people. This

496
00:26:43.359 --> 00:26:45.519
is something you actually have to to be part of.

497
00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:45.960
You know.

498
00:26:45.960 --> 00:26:48.279
There's there's another thing that has has come up in

499
00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:52.880
the in the news as far as creating a new

500
00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:56.720
interactive Jurassic park element that that you have in the

501
00:26:56.759 --> 00:26:58.079
notes a little bit later here. I don't know where

502
00:26:58.079 --> 00:27:00.759
we're going to get to in the show, but there

503
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:05.200
is there's more and more immersiveness, interactiveness. You know, Male

504
00:27:05.240 --> 00:27:08.319
Wolf has just expanded fivefold in the last two three years,

505
00:27:09.160 --> 00:27:14.079
and that's one hundred percent interactive. So you know, between

506
00:27:14.400 --> 00:27:18.960
between going from the between going from New Mexico to

507
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:21.920
Vegas to to in Texas to you know, they.

508
00:27:21.759 --> 00:27:22.359
Just keep.

509
00:27:23.799 --> 00:27:27.160
New, new, new, new new. I think we're gonna see.

510
00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:30.319
I That's why I say I'm seeing it everywhere as

511
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:32.920
far as the immersiveness. When I'm getting asked to train,

512
00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:35.880
whether it's in the US or outside, they always want

513
00:27:35.960 --> 00:27:38.279
me to talk about interactive. They always want me to

514
00:27:38.319 --> 00:27:41.599
do something in regards to interactivity and how to incorporate that.

515
00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:47.240
So we'll see. But that's kind of where I say,

516
00:27:47.279 --> 00:27:50.039
everybody's talking about interactive because in my world they are.

517
00:27:50.839 --> 00:27:52.880
But to your point, the stuff that's coming to the

518
00:27:52.880 --> 00:27:54.200
surface now is new rides.

519
00:27:55.079 --> 00:27:57.160
Yeah, but I guess I could see your point where

520
00:27:57.240 --> 00:28:01.440
essentially maybe it's coming to the service because those are

521
00:28:01.440 --> 00:28:04.519
the highest capex expenditures, right, I.

522
00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:06.599
Mean, like'sist to market, so they're the ones you're going

523
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:07.359
to see the most off.

524
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:10.039
It costs like, it costs so much more to build

525
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:11.920
one of those, and it's and again they use they're

526
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:14.839
using like so it's like all the announcements for Ayappa

527
00:28:14.920 --> 00:28:17.160
and all the announcements from the Disney press conferences, and

528
00:28:17.200 --> 00:28:20.000
like everything everyone's talking about is like the new rides.

529
00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:22.039
But to your point, it could be just because that's

530
00:28:22.039 --> 00:28:24.599
what they know how to talk, Like, they know how

531
00:28:24.599 --> 00:28:26.720
to write a press release about the new Twizzlers thing

532
00:28:26.759 --> 00:28:29.279
coming to Hershey, but you know, they're not really talking

533
00:28:29.279 --> 00:28:32.200
about the Christmas as much. They're not spending as much

534
00:28:32.200 --> 00:28:34.359
time talking about Christmas, you know, then they are talking

535
00:28:34.359 --> 00:28:38.880
about the new Twizzlers thing, which is like, well.

536
00:28:38.759 --> 00:28:39.079
I don't know.

537
00:28:39.119 --> 00:28:42.319
I've always believed that I've always believed that rides get people,

538
00:28:42.720 --> 00:28:46.799
get people, make people aware of the park, and interactivity,

539
00:28:47.039 --> 00:28:51.160
live entertainment, the actual world that you create that guests

540
00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:52.960
come and live in is what brings them back time

541
00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:53.599
and time again.

542
00:28:53.920 --> 00:28:56.000
Yeah, yeah, I think it has to be a balance.

543
00:28:56.039 --> 00:28:59.119
But I think the question is, well, it's always been

544
00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:01.079
a question of what the balances right.

545
00:29:01.240 --> 00:29:03.119
But well, it's a question of sustainability. I mean, we

546
00:29:03.200 --> 00:29:06.039
used to say with Hollow Scream one roller coaster used

547
00:29:06.079 --> 00:29:11.279
to be one hundred years of Hollow scream yep so crazy,

548
00:29:11.519 --> 00:29:17.039
which which is a better investment, you know, And the

549
00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:19.640
fact that you know, some of the coasters that opened

550
00:29:19.680 --> 00:29:22.799
while Hollowscream was in inaction at Bush Tampa have now

551
00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:25.960
either been redone or closed, but Hollow Scream is still

552
00:29:25.960 --> 00:29:28.839
going and it's still drawing attendance.

553
00:29:29.039 --> 00:29:33.799
So yeah, yep, okay, well we're yeah, we're almost at

554
00:29:33.799 --> 00:29:36.119
a time. But I think on on Unhinged, where we're

555
00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:37.359
going to talk about some of the things we didn't

556
00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:40.319
give to talk about, which is the the Jurassic Immersive

557
00:29:40.319 --> 00:29:43.799
experience that's that's announced for Thailand, which which I have

558
00:29:43.920 --> 00:29:47.720
thoughts on, and uh and a few other immersive experiences

559
00:29:47.720 --> 00:29:52.559
that Disneylands Expansion Festival at the Holidays, a few and

560
00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:53.799
a few other items.

561
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:55.519
So that's our our little teaser.

562
00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:58.160
Well, that's our little teaser for all of you who

563
00:29:58.200 --> 00:30:00.279
are listening. This is this is our for those of

564
00:30:00.279 --> 00:30:02.319
you who celebrate Christmas. This is our Christmas Week show,

565
00:30:02.680 --> 00:30:04.720
So Merry Christmas to all of you. I hope you

566
00:30:04.759 --> 00:30:06.920
have a wonderful holiday season. We will have one more

567
00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:09.680
show before the new year, and for those of you

568
00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:12.920
who are Unhinged listeners, I'm going to drop that little

569
00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:16.440
hint once again to please send us questions because we

570
00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:18.680
will be doing a will answer anything episode after the

571
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:20.240
first of the year, so make sure you.

572
00:30:20.240 --> 00:30:20.960
Get those questions in.

573
00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:23.039
Otherwise it's just Philip and I asking you know, Woodow

574
00:30:23.079 --> 00:30:25.240
for breakfast today, and that'll make a really lame show.

575
00:30:25.759 --> 00:30:28.880
So instead of a lame show, we want your questions.

576
00:30:28.920 --> 00:30:31.599
Please get them in. Thank you all so much for listening,

577
00:30:31.640 --> 00:30:35.480
and we will see you once again after the Christmas holiday,

578
00:30:36.119 --> 00:30:38.720
right here on Green Tag Theme parkin thirty