March 23, 2026

Six Flags Pushed to Sell | Sesame Sues SeaWorld

Six Flags Pushed to Sell | Sesame Sues SeaWorld
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Jana Partners sent a letter to the Six Flags board pushing the company to explore a sale and replace board chair Marilyn Spiegel — just one week after the Travis Kelce brand ambassador announcement. We break down what Jana actually wants, why the timeline doesn't add up, and what this means for CEO John Reilly's turnaround plan. 

Then: Sesame Workshop filed a federal lawsuit against United Parks to terminate their licensing agreement. United Parks stopped paying royalties in September 2025, took over a year to pay a court-ordered $11.4 million judgment, and is still operating Sesame-branded parks and attractions. We dig into the pattern, the contract questions, and what happens to the parks if Sesame walks.

WEBVTT

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Okay, from our studios in Los Angeles and Tampa. This

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is Green Tagged Theme Park and thirty. I'm Philip and

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I'm joined as always but my delightful co host Scott

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Swinson of Scott Swinson Creative Development. On Green tag we

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look at the top news each week and we explain

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why it matters to business professionals in the theme, entertainment

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and attractions space. And this week we have another update

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to cover.

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Six Flags, isn't it. We've got six Flags to talk

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about it again? Got it? More six flags stuff?

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Here we go, and then we're going to get to

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the Sesame workshop debacle, which came to us requested multiple

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times from listeners last week, so thank you for that.

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But it was announcement after we stopped recording, so we

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literally we just missed it.

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But we'll get that. That was it was.

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I was just I was just saying, okay, bye, Philip,

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we'll see, Oh Sesame's done something. Oh oh so yes,

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we'll cover it. No panic, we'll cover it today.

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We'll cover it.

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So let's start off. We'll just do a quick update here.

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This is it's just the six Flags thing. I just

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think it's fascinating at this point where just last week

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we talked about the brand ambassador and Travis kelce and

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all that was going on. And remember that the whole

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reason that Travis kelce was brought in is he was

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brought in with Jana, which is one of the private

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equity groups, the Jana Partners, they have nine percent to

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take and so Travis kelcey was wrapped into that, and

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then he was suggested as the brand ambassador, and they

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announced this official partnership last week and all these marketing

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things and everything, and then literally a week later, just

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a week later, Jana Partners is now pushing six Flags

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to explore a sale. And they sent a letter which

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writers got a hold of apparently, and they sent the

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letter to the board urging the company to explore a

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sale and replace the board chair Marilyn Spiegel.

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So Spiegel was.

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Just nam chair in January, so she's only been there

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for a few months, but she's then director since twenty

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twenty three. So it's what they said here is is

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it is now in the best interest of shareholders for

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the company to reverse course and engage with known buyer

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interest in six Flags. We have witnessed an alarming pattern

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of board dysfunction and disjointed decision making that has become

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impossible to ignore. So I think we all probably agree

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with that part. But I think where we probably disagree

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with is what is best right now. And I think

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we've talked about last week or that that Scott and

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I've been maintaining for several chapters of the story is

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that they do need the time and the space. And

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we talked about John Riley and everything he was doing,

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and we're like, look, there is a ray of hope

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here where if you could sell enough parks to relieve

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a little bit of the debt and give yourself a runway,

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and then Riley can go through and make some of

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the changes that he's been talking about, and you can

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write the ship and fix the experiences and bring in

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all these breat of food and modernize some of these parks.

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You could see, you know, hope for the future. But

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to me, this would derail all of that because going

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into a sale and all, and it's it's crazy, but

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it is also the playbook, right. So that is kind

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of the business model of an activist hedge fund, where

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they buy a stake in a company that they think

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is undervalued and they push for changes and then they

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just like exit and they don't really want I don't

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think that they want to sit here with six Flags

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for a decade to kind of watch as they revitalize

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the brand or not. And it's just interesting the timing

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wise that it came a week after the Kelsey announcement.

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And my only guess on that is that they announced it.

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It's like the Kelsey thing didn't really help the stock

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as much as they thought it would. I think is

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the problem is that they announced a brand partnership, they

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didn't seem to do much, were raise valuation much, and

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so now they're like, well, we just need to get out,

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so we're pushing you to sell.

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What do you think, Scott.

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Well, I think it's interesting because they do in their

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statement to say that they still support CEO John Riley. Yes,

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the target is the board, not the CEO. So what

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that suggests to me is there is someone or ones

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on the board that are holding onto the old ways

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and I'm not sure whether Jenner really wants them to sell.

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You know, when you say sale, is that sale of

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the whole company? Is that like sell all of the

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new six Flags to x y Z Holding Company or

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is it to SA to sell off additional parks. I

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think I think there is if I'm reading between the lines,

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and this is pure speculation, But if I'm reading between

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the lines, when they say things like we are targeting

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the board, we want the chair of the board to

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be replaced, but we still support the CEO, that means

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that the or that suggests to me that the holding

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company that Jenna is looking at it going. The problem

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is not the way the parks operate. The problem is

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the board, which is steering them in the wrong directions

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or dragging their feet so that they can't make the

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changes quickly enough. You know, Bard approval is usually like

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the kiss of death for new ideas when when you

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have when you're in a park and you have to go, okay,

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we have to go through board approval. And that doesn't

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matter whether you are a huge chain like six Flags

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or an independent nonprofit that has a board. It is

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the board that can put the kaibosh on pretty much

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anything just by saying no, we don't like it. Because

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the board is the organization that can keep or get

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rid of pretty much anyone. So everybody thinks that the

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board is sort of a a neutral party but they're not.

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They have they have a great deal of clout in

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these kinds of organizations, and you know, the are larger

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the organization, the more cloud they have. So it sounds

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to me like, uh, there is a co I won't

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even say a conflict. There is a perceived conflict between

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the board and the operations team, and they are not

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the same thing. And so I just I find it

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very interesting that they make a point to say that

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they still support John, but the it's the target is

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the board, not the CEO. So that again just just

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that little little tiny tidbit alone kind of tips their hat.

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I don't I don't know whether they're the idea of

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pushing for a sale. I don't know whether. I don't

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know what exactly that means. So whether it means we

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should sell off more parks or we should sell the

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whole company, make a quick buck and get out, I

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don't know which it is.

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Well, I'm not sure that it could be the I

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agree with you entirely, and I'm not sure it could

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be the sale of the entire thing, because who has

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the money to at this point to buy something with

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that amount of leverage, debt and all these properties and

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it's I mean, it's not gonna be Dizzy, It's like Universal,

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it's not gonna be Hersion, It's I mean, who is

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it going to be? It probably would be another private

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equity or another place who And then you're back into

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the same doom loop basically of of you know, people

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who are who are not willing to make the long.

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Term strategic investment to turn the entire chain around.

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Unless unless it is either Morale or Kadia or yes,

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that could be one of those organizations. And I don't know.

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I can't remember the name of the actual company that

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owns six Flags in Kadia or that owns Kadia City,

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but they may be very interested in buying the six

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Flags out right, I don't know that for a fact,

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but they might. But I think, I think in my

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own personal opinion, And again I am not a chairman

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of a board, nor have I ever been a chairman

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of a board for a theme park. But in my

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experience in working on the ground and seeing how the

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board and the c suite operates and the people in

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the trenches operate, I would think I don't think additional

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sales are a bad idea. I think getting rid of

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a few extra parks, you could give them some capital

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and help them reduce that debt. They're already so far

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in a hole that if they don't get a few

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more shovels, they're going to stay there, so no matter

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how hard they did. So I'm kind of assuming that

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may be it, and I think it's more of a

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I think it's more of a threat to get the

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board to shape up and and get behind the project.

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But again, this is all conjecture. I can't say that

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inn but I usually usually when an investment firm decides

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we need to sell, it's pretty much there. They don't

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think there's anything salvagable. But the fact that they still

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support John Riley and don't support the board, that suggests

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that they've seen some sort of friction in there that

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they don't want.

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Well, like they said, dysfunction, I mean the high level

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of dysfunction which they said, which I think we did

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allude to a little bit. Remember when we talked about

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the first earnings call that John Riley had where he

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had toured all the parks and he was bringing up

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all these perfectly reasonable observations. I think you and I

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both were like, the weird thing here is that these

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are still problems right that no one has really and

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that could be an indicator again of this dysfunction, like

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you said, on the board, Like could just be whatever's

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happened on the boards preventing them from making decisions and

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they're kind of hindering the CEO. And I think you

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had said even at that time, the real question is

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whether or not the board is going to allow the

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CEO to do what you know, give him the leeway

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to do what he needs to do and maybe do

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what they hired him to do, do what they hired

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him to do. And maybe this is Jenna saying, we

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don't believe they're going to so we need to pull

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the rip chord. But that's I can't imagine that's going

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to I think. To me, I think the like you said,

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the good part here is that if the board is

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genuinely dysfunctional, like if they're actually dysfunctional, which there's reasonably

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they are, then something like changing up the chair and

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what that would actually help Riley. But the sale I

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don't think would. So I feel like them pushing for

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a sale or pushing for this aggressive timeline isn't helpful

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right now. But the board shakeup could be if the

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board is preventing Riley from making changes right well.

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And the threat of sale, the threat of sale could

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also be a tool to get the board in line.

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Yep, that's right, that's right.

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Because again they own nine percent, there's still ninety one

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percent that they would have to or at least what

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is it, forty forty two percent that they would have

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to convince in order to make a sale possible, assuming

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that you just need to smell a simple majority.

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That's right, that's right. They But of course it's not.

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It's always like you said, they always have a lot

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of sway because they're going to the other shareholders, of course,

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and they're and they're kind of.

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Right, they're saying, do you really trust? And I don't

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think there's I don't think it would be the least bit.

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I don't think it's I don't think this is me

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just being the conspiracy theory guy. But I'm sure they've

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already somebody in Jenna has already reached out, because they've

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already said they're interested buyer. Well, how would you know

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that if you hadn't reached out already. Yeah, so there's that. Yeah,

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I was wondering that too.

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And I thought it was just so abrupt that I

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was wondering if it's something like you said. I had

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thought about the Middle East, but I wasn't sure about Well,

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it's all conjecture. But anyway, anyway, they're Aside from that,

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there's the structural problem at six Flags, which we have

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all talked about since the merger started, right.

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The whole structural problem.

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And I want to point to an article from theme

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parkinsider Robert Niles wrote there which I thought was extraordinary.

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I mean, I love Robert's work, but I also love

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how he was able to condense everything again a few

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simple terms. But I'm going to quote here from his

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recent article where he says six Flags is fundamentally misaligned

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with the current market, both on the demand and supply sides.

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It has too many parks and locations that are not

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experiencing stro economic growth. The attractions that it now offers

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across its chain are too often designed for a previous generation.

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They do not meet the needs of the current demographics.

236
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Nor are Six Flags parks designed for warming and extreme weather.

237
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Market leaders Disney Universal have long been aggressive with price increases,

238
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positioning themselves as week long vacation destinations. That leaves an

239
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opportunity in the market for company like six Flags to

240
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reach consumers who feel priced out by Disney and versal,

241
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or are looking for only daytrip rather than long vacation.

242
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But of course, he said. He goes on to say

243
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that Six Flags parks are running with one train operations

244
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on their major coasters, leading to long way times frustrated visitors.

245
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That's not a way to create positive guest experience and

246
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drive the long term value six Flags. They face many challenges,

247
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including billions of dollars in debt. The last thing the

248
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company needs to push deliver more value for shareholders over

249
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a period of just a few months. They must invest

250
00:13:25.960 --> 00:13:28.080
at the detriment of its short term ROI in order

251
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to correct these misalignments and the lock long term potential.

252
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That's assuming that the goal of the investors is the

253
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success of the parks. That's right, Which is not right case?

254
00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:40.360
Which is not always the case. It may be the case,

255
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I don't know, but that's not always the case. Quite

256
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often the case is I see a chance for me

257
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to get in, make a quick buck and get out.

258
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That's right, I'm going to buy this, you know, I

259
00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:52.480
quite honestly, I understand that completely. I've done that when

260
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I buy pieces of art, I know that this is

261
00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:56.240
something that's going to be really popular. So I'm going

262
00:13:56.240 --> 00:13:57.639
to work my butt off to get a copy of

263
00:13:57.679 --> 00:14:00.159
it when it first comes out. It's a limited edition thing,

264
00:14:00.159 --> 00:14:01.960
it'll be gone. Once it's gone, I know I can

265
00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:05.840
double the price, and I can do that overnight. So

266
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I understand that mentality. I think though that everything and

267
00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:12.480
I and I also want to make it very clear,

268
00:14:12.519 --> 00:14:16.799
I am not disagreeing with Robert at all. I agree

269
00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:20.399
one hundred percent. I think it's very important to recognize

270
00:14:20.440 --> 00:14:23.759
that the and and all of this stuff is the

271
00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:26.960
stuff that we've said. You know, my my favorite combat

272
00:14:27.039 --> 00:14:29.279
is the one one train operation. You know this is

273
00:14:29.799 --> 00:14:33.039
you know that once once any park, once any park

274
00:14:33.080 --> 00:14:35.159
goes down to the bare minimum it takes to keep

275
00:14:35.200 --> 00:14:38.000
the ride open, that they are hurting and they don't

276
00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:42.120
have a plan, they don't have a solution. That's right,

277
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and six Flags is not the only park we're seeing

278
00:14:44.840 --> 00:14:47.720
that in either. So you know, this kind of goes

279
00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:51.320
back to my The mega parks, unless they're tied to

280
00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:55.120
a giant brand, the big theme park, the destination theme

281
00:14:55.159 --> 00:14:59.240
parks are going by the wayside, unless they're either Disney

282
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or Universal. With this point, and because they're tied to

283
00:15:03.440 --> 00:15:07.919
iconic ips that are and they have the money or

284
00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:11.120
have to invested the money to make them so incredibly

285
00:15:11.759 --> 00:15:16.720
bold and robust. You know, I have always said with

286
00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:21.759
and I used to say this about Paramount Parks and

287
00:15:21.799 --> 00:15:26.960
you know all the other other chains, if they were

288
00:15:27.039 --> 00:15:35.559
able to use their to use their their numbers of parks,

289
00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:38.960
to use their their the clout of having buying power

290
00:15:39.919 --> 00:15:45.120
to create the best local theme park they could. To me,

291
00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:47.519
that seems to be the approach. Don't try to make

292
00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:50.600
it a destination park, be the park that families want

293
00:15:50.639 --> 00:15:52.879
to go to because it's that local park. Because look

294
00:15:52.879 --> 00:15:55.360
what happens the moment they go to close any of

295
00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:59.399
the six Flags or or which are now you know

296
00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:02.399
some of the arm Cedar Fair parks as well. The

297
00:16:02.399 --> 00:16:03.919
moment they go to close them, it's like, oh no,

298
00:16:03.960 --> 00:16:05.360
I grew up there. That's what let's say, we can't

299
00:16:05.360 --> 00:16:09.559
blah blah blah blahah. So lean into that. Lean into that.

300
00:16:09.639 --> 00:16:12.320
Don't try to homogenize everything so that it's going to

301
00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:16.360
be one giant six Flags monster that has fifteen hundred

302
00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:19.279
legs and different locations all around the country. Make it

303
00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:25.399
so that each park can be unique in its own way,

304
00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:29.679
that that follows what the local market wants, and that

305
00:16:29.720 --> 00:16:31.759
way when people go to visit these places. I mean,

306
00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:34.879
I know so many theme park nerds that love to

307
00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:37.559
visit places just to go and ride a coaster because

308
00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:43.480
it's been there since, you know, the twenties. It's it

309
00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:48.440
boggles my mind that everyone tries to compete in the

310
00:16:48.519 --> 00:16:53.600
same way. You know, when when when Bush Gardens in

311
00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:56.120
Tampa says we're going to do this because Universal did this,

312
00:16:56.159 --> 00:16:57.639
and Universal used to say we're going to do this

313
00:16:57.639 --> 00:17:00.279
because Disney did this, And now six Flags is going

314
00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:02.000
to say we're going to do this because Universal and

315
00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:07.240
Disney and Bush Gardens have done this. That's ridiculous. There's

316
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:09.279
the people who've been doing it for a while not

317
00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:11.799
only have a leg up from a timing standpoint, from

318
00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:14.599
a research standpoint, but also from a financial standpoint. So

319
00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:20.279
recognize that you can use best practices to create unique

320
00:17:20.359 --> 00:17:22.319
experiences around the country.

321
00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:27.799
I agree with all that. I think it also dovetails.

322
00:17:29.160 --> 00:17:31.000
I don't think that's in conflict with what Robert is

323
00:17:31.039 --> 00:17:36.319
saying at all. And I think it's more a question

324
00:17:36.400 --> 00:17:39.920
of some of this, like you were alluding to some

325
00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:41.839
of the you know, the one train operations is.

326
00:17:41.799 --> 00:17:44.119
One symptom of it, of the cost cutting and whatnot.

327
00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:45.720
But I think a lot of it's how do you,

328
00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:51.200
like I guess Scott from like operations perspective, Like, like,

329
00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:55.240
how I think that's that's a pretty big shift that

330
00:17:55.240 --> 00:17:56.960
would need to happen at some of these locations to

331
00:17:57.039 --> 00:17:59.640
make them to kind of turn them from where they're

332
00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:01.720
at now, which is kind of a bad guess experience

333
00:18:01.720 --> 00:18:03.799
in bad creature comforts, which we always talk about the

334
00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:05.519
creature and then we hear that all the time creature

335
00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:08.160
comforts are bad. Lines are long, no place, blah blah

336
00:18:08.160 --> 00:18:10.039
blah blah blah, on and on on, food, et cetera.

337
00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:13.160
Corporate needs to so corporate needs to do a corporate

338
00:18:13.200 --> 00:18:16.119
wide investment of here's X amount of dollars, here's how

339
00:18:16.119 --> 00:18:18.000
we're going to allocate the money. Here's X amount of

340
00:18:18.039 --> 00:18:20.200
dollars for you to put benches in your park that

341
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:22.839
are shaded, with water available.

342
00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:27.200
And unestaffing, all that kind of stuff like making that it's.

343
00:18:27.200 --> 00:18:28.799
Well, you got it, I mean, you got you can't

344
00:18:28.799 --> 00:18:31.079
do everything at once. You can't do everything at once.

345
00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:33.799
You have to make it so that you know. And

346
00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:35.240
this is why I was so excited to hear that

347
00:18:35.279 --> 00:18:37.519
John had gone out and visited all the parks. I

348
00:18:37.559 --> 00:18:39.440
talk about John like I know, like we're best buddies.

349
00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:41.720
We're not. I worked with him for a couple of years.

350
00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:43.920
That's I don't I don't mean to be that name

351
00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:46.519
dropper guy, but but I will be honest. If I

352
00:18:46.559 --> 00:18:48.400
ran into him in the like, if I ran into

353
00:18:48.440 --> 00:18:50.400
him at app, I'd walk up to him and go, congratulations, John,

354
00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:54.519
I here, you're you're doing really well for yourself. He

355
00:18:54.559 --> 00:18:55.480
would go, and who are you?

356
00:18:56.079 --> 00:18:59.880
But anyway, Uh, he's that guy that talks about me

357
00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:00.599
on YouTube.

358
00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:02.759
On YouTube, Yeah, he talks way too much about me

359
00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:04.799
on YouTube. But but the thing but he always talks

360
00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:06.720
nice about me, So that's the good thing. But I know,

361
00:19:06.799 --> 00:19:09.200
I loved it when when John Riley said I'm going

362
00:19:09.200 --> 00:19:10.640
to all the parks, I'm going to listen to what

363
00:19:10.680 --> 00:19:13.319
the frontline people have to say. That seems to me

364
00:19:13.519 --> 00:19:15.680
to be in line with what I'm saying. And I

365
00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:18.920
agree what I'm saying is not in uh in not

366
00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:22.279
in not in conflict with with Robert's observations in the article.

367
00:19:23.039 --> 00:19:26.400
I'm saying is if you are truly interested in trying

368
00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:29.000
to make the parks better and make them succeed and

369
00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:32.039
not just get a quick buck, this is the approach

370
00:19:32.359 --> 00:19:33.640
that I would recommend taking.

371
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:36.000
But of course Janet just wants a quick buck, which

372
00:19:36.039 --> 00:19:39.440
we've known since then to assume that. Yeah, but that's

373
00:19:39.480 --> 00:19:41.960
been their systemic problem. I think that's that's always a

374
00:19:41.960 --> 00:19:44.599
systemic problem when you have this type of investment in

375
00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:47.440
the parks, is you know, it's not necessarily aligned with

376
00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:50.759
the best long term strategy. They want returns faster, which

377
00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:54.759
isn't necessarily possible when you have to embark on this

378
00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:59.039
turnaround strategy over time. One thing I wanted to mention

379
00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:00.920
really quick. I know we're running time in this one,

380
00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:07.400
but I did go to Knots recently, which I haven't

381
00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:10.440
gone in quite a long time, and I went for

382
00:20:10.480 --> 00:20:13.319
their Boys and Berry festival, and I think everything that

383
00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:16.440
you mentioned, I think I noticed, and everything even that

384
00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:18.599
Robert mentioned, and I mean not in the bad way,

385
00:20:18.640 --> 00:20:23.079
actually the good way. So the good staff interactions that

386
00:20:23.119 --> 00:20:26.799
I had were the ones that were older, that were

387
00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:30.599
senior employees or older much older employees who had been

388
00:20:30.640 --> 00:20:33.480
there for a long time, and they were patient and

389
00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:36.319
nice and they made small talk, and that those were

390
00:20:36.319 --> 00:20:40.200
all great. There was still you know, college people sprinkled around,

391
00:20:40.200 --> 00:20:43.119
but everybody had a good culture. They had the good

392
00:20:43.160 --> 00:20:46.240
a good Knots culture. They had a good attitude you had.

393
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:49.359
I actually I interviewed a lot of people. I'm writing

394
00:20:49.359 --> 00:20:52.920
an article about the experience, but I interviewed a lot

395
00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:55.279
of the other guests that were there, and everything you're

396
00:20:55.279 --> 00:20:57.160
saying is exactly what I heard time and time again

397
00:20:57.240 --> 00:20:59.279
from the guests that were there. They said that this

398
00:20:59.440 --> 00:21:02.839
is to them, it's cheaper than Disney. It feels like

399
00:21:02.920 --> 00:21:05.319
going to a park. It just feels like they have

400
00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:05.799
a pass.

401
00:21:05.880 --> 00:21:06.240
They like.

402
00:21:06.319 --> 00:21:08.160
They like to show up. They like to eat and

403
00:21:08.240 --> 00:21:10.599
hang out and eat the food. The local vendors that

404
00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:12.680
they bring in for the Boisonberry Festival, I talk to

405
00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:15.160
them as well. They're all local artists and local craftsmen

406
00:21:15.680 --> 00:21:18.079
and they love being able to go to Knots and

407
00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:23.000
make something sell crafts. I ran into a woman even

408
00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:27.359
who had sown a Boisonberry themed dress to wear to

409
00:21:27.519 --> 00:21:31.920
Notts to come to the festival, so that that you know,

410
00:21:32.039 --> 00:21:34.200
basically the way I would describe it as the Boisberry

411
00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:38.359
Festival feels like a small town festival put on by

412
00:21:38.359 --> 00:21:40.039
a small town. It just happens to be in a

413
00:21:40.079 --> 00:21:40.519
theme park.

414
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:44.000
Yep, yep. And you know, because we have fewer and

415
00:21:44.000 --> 00:21:46.960
fewer of these community gathering spaces, it is an opportunity

416
00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:49.160
for these parks to become those That's right.

417
00:21:49.240 --> 00:21:50.880
That's right, and I think that that is that is

418
00:21:50.920 --> 00:21:54.359
the opportunity if you could do that at every park

419
00:21:54.359 --> 00:21:57.759
that six Flags has. That's that's the straight Okay, anyway,

420
00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:00.880
we got to move on. Okay, okay, let's try and

421
00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:03.960
wrap this last one up here. Sesame Workshop is suing

422
00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:06.839
United Parks to terminate the licensing agreement. So basically, here's

423
00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:09.799
what happened. Sesame Workshop filed a federal lawsuit in the

424
00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:12.680
Southern District of New York on March twelfth against SeaWorld,

425
00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:16.559
and they are saying they're asking the court to terminate

426
00:22:16.599 --> 00:22:21.160
the licensing agreement, not just to pay the damages. So

427
00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:24.480
currently the licensing agreement runs through December twenty thirty one.

428
00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:27.799
The relationship itself is over forty five years old, and

429
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:32.920
United Parks's argument, so Sesame is arguing that they stopped

430
00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:36.880
paying in September, and before that they had taken a

431
00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:39.680
long time and had gone over previous payments that they

432
00:22:39.720 --> 00:22:42.279
were doing, and so they're currently not paying. This is

433
00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:45.079
what they are currently not paying, and so they're asking

434
00:22:45.160 --> 00:22:47.480
to terminate the agreement not just because they're currently not paying,

435
00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:50.880
but because of the late how late they were on

436
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:52.039
previous payments.

437
00:22:52.519 --> 00:22:53.440
United Parks.

438
00:22:53.680 --> 00:22:57.119
Their argument is that because Sessing Workshops and distribution deal

439
00:22:57.160 --> 00:22:59.960
with Warner Brothers to release new episodes on HBO MAC

440
00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:03.720
wasn't renewed, that Sesame failed to invest in its brand

441
00:23:04.160 --> 00:23:07.920
and exposure, reputation had weakened, and that gave United Parks

442
00:23:07.920 --> 00:23:13.000
cause to terminate. Okay, but just as a as a

443
00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:16.720
just to clarify though that Sesame Parks is still operating

444
00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:22.640
the Sesame that United Parks is still operating the Sesame

445
00:23:22.720 --> 00:23:25.599
branded parks and attractions like right now, like Sesame Place

446
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:28.519
San Diego is going to open on March twenty seventh,

447
00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:31.079
and they're not paying for the license, so like they're

448
00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:35.359
opening lands that they're not paying a license EEV before.

449
00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:38.160
So that's just that's the thing. They stopped paying in September.

450
00:23:38.519 --> 00:23:43.599
So I put a whole timeline here, you know, for

451
00:23:44.039 --> 00:23:49.160
for reference, But previously, in twenty twenty four, a federal

452
00:23:49.240 --> 00:23:52.200
judgment Orlando had upheld the arbitation ruling ordering United Parks

453
00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:55.119
to pay eleven point four million including interest, and they

454
00:23:55.119 --> 00:23:59.599
didn't pay until just this last October, so they took

455
00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:01.000
a year or after that was done.

456
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:02.880
So I don't know.

457
00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:07.200
And this all comes we reported just recently on their

458
00:24:07.279 --> 00:24:10.240
latest earnings call, right, And remember we talked about the

459
00:24:10.279 --> 00:24:14.960
CEO where he was pushed about the expenses and how

460
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:16.279
he was going to curve them and how he'd been

461
00:24:16.319 --> 00:24:18.400
over last time and blah blah blah, and he kind

462
00:24:18.400 --> 00:24:21.559
of gave a dodgy answer and all this, and and well, yeah,

463
00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:24.039
I mean, one way to curb your expenses is to

464
00:24:24.079 --> 00:24:28.359
not pay licensing deals that you apparently have to pay

465
00:24:28.519 --> 00:24:31.480
as ordered by a court. I guess what.

466
00:24:32.359 --> 00:24:34.680
And so.

467
00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:42.079
Yeah, So the Session Workshop statement here is that United

468
00:24:42.119 --> 00:24:45.039
Parks and Resource has repeatedly failed to honor its contractual obligations,

469
00:24:45.079 --> 00:24:47.759
leaving Session Workshop no choice but to pursue litigation to

470
00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:50.480
protect our brand and trust the families in it. And

471
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:53.400
United Parks just said that they're looking forward to setting

472
00:24:53.400 --> 00:24:55.960
the record straight in court, which I'm not sure how

473
00:24:56.000 --> 00:25:01.519
else you can set it because anyway, to me, okay,

474
00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:04.279
this is not a financial show. I'm not an attorney,

475
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:10.079
so there's my disclosure. But I kind of don't see it.

476
00:25:10.119 --> 00:25:12.920
Seems like, you know, Parks is trying to just delay

477
00:25:13.039 --> 00:25:16.680
this because they're trying to do like we talked about

478
00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:19.759
some sort of we talked about this buybacks they did.

479
00:25:19.759 --> 00:25:22.640
We've talked about all their weird financial machinations and them

480
00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:26.839
trying to increase the share or decrease the shared delution

481
00:25:27.319 --> 00:25:29.519
before they potentially sell land. So I feel like they're

482
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:31.599
just trying to punt this down so they can put

483
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:34.799
more money to that plan so they can sell land

484
00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:37.279
and get some sort of return on it and maybe

485
00:25:37.279 --> 00:25:40.720
then they'll pay it. But I don't Again, i'm not attorney,

486
00:25:40.720 --> 00:25:44.559
but I don't see how this is not illegal. Like

487
00:25:44.599 --> 00:25:46.880
they're opening a land for which they are supposed to

488
00:25:46.920 --> 00:25:50.200
be paying IP and they're not paying it. And maybe

489
00:25:50.599 --> 00:25:53.240
there's something in that contract that says that Sesame is

490
00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:57.720
required to invest periodically. Maybe maybe that's in there, sure,

491
00:25:58.119 --> 00:26:03.960
but okay, go ahead, No, that's that's exactly what I

492
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:04.519
was gonna say.

493
00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:06.920
Neither of us have seen the contract. Neither of us

494
00:26:06.920 --> 00:26:10.440
have seen the agreement. And if if it does say that,

495
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:13.400
you know, over over the next X number of years,

496
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:17.440
case Sesame, you know, with with public television, Sesame was

497
00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:22.680
was was dying, it was going away, and so in less,

498
00:26:22.960 --> 00:26:27.039
if there if there was something in that that agreement

499
00:26:27.200 --> 00:26:30.319
that says Sesame agrees to invest x amount of dollars

500
00:26:30.400 --> 00:26:33.359
or time or whatever in the ongoing distribution of the

501
00:26:33.359 --> 00:26:37.279
Sesame Street material and spreading of the Sesame Street brand,

502
00:26:37.720 --> 00:26:41.559
that may be something that United Parks could go, excuse me,

503
00:26:42.119 --> 00:26:44.359
you haven't quite you haven't quite lived up to your

504
00:26:44.440 --> 00:26:48.759
end of the bargain. That said, it is still not

505
00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:50.400
an excuse to just not pay.

506
00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:51.400
That's right.

507
00:26:52.000 --> 00:26:53.839
It is one of those things that if if that

508
00:26:53.920 --> 00:26:56.680
is indeed the case, then say then make it clear

509
00:26:57.039 --> 00:26:59.200
you know we are we are filing suit against you

510
00:27:00.200 --> 00:27:03.440
Sesame for not living up to your end of the bargain,

511
00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:06.440
assuming that was part of the original agreement, Assuming that

512
00:27:06.519 --> 00:27:09.759
was part of the original deal, which it would not

513
00:27:09.839 --> 00:27:12.279
be uncommon to have that sort of clause in there

514
00:27:12.319 --> 00:27:14.119
to say, you know, because because there are you know,

515
00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:16.319
there's are there there are those IP holders who are

516
00:27:16.359 --> 00:27:18.480
just like, yeah, I own the rights to this, but

517
00:27:18.519 --> 00:27:20.319
I don't really give a crap whether anybody really sees

518
00:27:20.359 --> 00:27:22.519
it or not. I just want somebody to buy it

519
00:27:22.519 --> 00:27:25.039
and put it in their parks. Okay, great, Then the

520
00:27:25.039 --> 00:27:28.000
parks invest a ton of money, because the investment that

521
00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:31.240
that all of the United Parks have made, not just

522
00:27:31.279 --> 00:27:32.960
in the sea World or not just in the the

523
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:36.319
Sesame specific locations, but in all of the SeaWorld parks

524
00:27:36.359 --> 00:27:40.680
and the Bush Gardens parks is substantial. You know, there's

525
00:27:40.720 --> 00:27:46.359
a there's a hard goods capital investment there. And so

526
00:27:46.839 --> 00:27:49.599
if if Sesame were to all of a sudden say

527
00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:52.079
here's a cease and desist, or get a judge to

528
00:27:52.079 --> 00:27:55.200
say here's a cease and desist, yeah you can't. You

529
00:27:55.240 --> 00:28:00.720
can't operate anything that has any of our logos, characters, names,

530
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:04.759
et cetera. That would affect affect every single park in

531
00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:11.640
the United Parks chain. So this could be a big deal.

532
00:28:11.839 --> 00:28:14.160
I mean, this could be a really big deal. I

533
00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:17.000
don't know whether it is a I know, Philip, you

534
00:28:17.240 --> 00:28:18.680
see it as a little bit more cut and dried

535
00:28:18.759 --> 00:28:20.960
than I do. I don't think it's right, but I

536
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:25.000
don't think it's as cleanly right and wrong as we

537
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:26.960
as we see it as because we don't know what

538
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:28.039
the original agreement was.

539
00:28:28.799 --> 00:28:29.559
I agree with that.

540
00:28:30.039 --> 00:28:33.000
I think to me, there's almost two different issues here,

541
00:28:34.079 --> 00:28:37.200
maybe three different issues agree. Like one is, we don't

542
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:39.720
know what the contract is, so we'd actually know if Sesame,

543
00:28:40.440 --> 00:28:42.559
if Sessme Workshop is fulfilling their or not.

544
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:43.200
We don't know that.

545
00:28:43.559 --> 00:28:46.079
But what we do know is that a judge ordered

546
00:28:46.119 --> 00:28:48.400
them to pay eleven point four million within a timeline

547
00:28:48.400 --> 00:28:52.079
and they ignored that. And there's also the original timeline.

548
00:28:52.119 --> 00:28:53.440
What was the original timeline.

549
00:28:53.079 --> 00:28:55.920
The judge ordered they were supposed to pay within I

550
00:28:55.960 --> 00:29:00.480
think thirty days, and they took a year, okay, file

551
00:29:00.599 --> 00:29:03.839
for any extensions No, apparently not, and they had to

552
00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:08.319
pay late for it. And then they also had to

553
00:29:08.319 --> 00:29:11.839
pay a settlement to the City of San Diego, right,

554
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:15.319
and now they've stopped paying royalties altogether. So I just

555
00:29:15.400 --> 00:29:17.839
feel like that's a little bit separate thing, where like

556
00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:20.240
they have a pattern now, an established pattern. So I

557
00:29:20.359 --> 00:29:21.920
just think that weekends their case, if they go in,

558
00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:26.839
they will have an established pattern of ignoring I agree, payments.

559
00:29:26.880 --> 00:29:29.440
And but then the third thing, to your point is like,

560
00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:31.559
what does this mean for the chain as a whole,

561
00:29:31.720 --> 00:29:35.000
because some of these places, again I think the Sesame

562
00:29:35.039 --> 00:29:38.279
thing is what makes it a family friendly offering, and

563
00:29:39.160 --> 00:29:42.920
the whole Sesame place areas like Philadelphia and San Diego,

564
00:29:43.759 --> 00:29:47.880
those are big chunks of it. It's not just merchandise,

565
00:29:47.920 --> 00:29:50.440
I guess in some of these areas.

566
00:29:50.119 --> 00:29:53.960
It's place necessity. Place parks, the whole park is a

567
00:29:54.000 --> 00:29:56.079
Sesame theme that's given exactly.

568
00:29:56.440 --> 00:29:58.759
So that's a big deal.

569
00:29:59.200 --> 00:30:00.960
That's a big deal. But to also say though that

570
00:30:01.240 --> 00:30:03.960
in the individual parks that if they got rid of

571
00:30:03.960 --> 00:30:05.839
the Sesame brand they wouldn't be kid friendly, Well, they

572
00:30:05.839 --> 00:30:10.079
were kid with what is now Sesame Sesame. The Sesame

573
00:30:10.160 --> 00:30:13.160
area at Bush Garden, Stampa has always been the kid

574
00:30:13.160 --> 00:30:15.720
friendly area. It was the it was when I first

575
00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:18.039
started working there, it was called it was called Dwarf Village,

576
00:30:18.440 --> 00:30:22.519
the culturally Insensitive Children's play Area, and then and then

577
00:30:22.519 --> 00:30:25.759
it went to Land of the Dragons, which was also

578
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:28.720
not IP supported, and then it went to Sesame. So

579
00:30:29.119 --> 00:30:31.680
they have the ability to keep it family friendly, but

580
00:30:31.759 --> 00:30:36.279
they've invested so much in putting capital investment behind the

581
00:30:36.279 --> 00:30:39.799
Sesame IP that it could be really catastrophic for them.

582
00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:44.039
I think it's played people that they are playing the

583
00:30:44.039 --> 00:30:46.519
shell game with their budget and moving money from here

584
00:30:46.519 --> 00:30:48.400
to there and paying what they can when they can.

585
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:53.200
But and I think using the claim that Sesame is

586
00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:56.640
no longer a viable IP, I don't think that is something.

587
00:30:56.720 --> 00:30:58.680
I don't think that's a reason to just stop paying.

588
00:30:58.839 --> 00:31:02.960
I think that is a reason to count or so renegotiation, Yeah,

589
00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:04.839
renegotiate and we'll see how that. We'll see how that

590
00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:06.759
all pans out in the end. Speaking of the end,

591
00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:09.640
we are there. So guys, thank you so much once

592
00:31:09.640 --> 00:31:12.599
again for watching and listening to us, Yamor and Uh.

593
00:31:12.680 --> 00:31:14.640
I think we talked about some pretty important stuff and

594
00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:17.559
hopefully you've got some takeaways. Again, thank you for listening

595
00:31:17.640 --> 00:31:19.400
on behalf of Philip and myself. This is Green Tag

596
00:31:19.440 --> 00:31:21.680
Theme Park in thirty and we will see you next week.