Six Flags Adds Haunted House Fees—Will Guests Pay for What They Once Got Free?

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From our studios this week in Los Angeles and Tampa.

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This is Green Tag the Theme Park and thirty. I'm

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Philip and I'm joined as always by my co host

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Scott Swinton of Scott Swinson Cret Development. On Green Tag,

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we look at the week's top news and break down

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why it matters for business professionals in the theme park space.

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This week, we are actually going to continue the Six

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Flags saga because they just keep they just keep doing things.

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You know, I'm not sure they're good things. Maybe some

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of them are good things, but it's.

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There are things. They're things, they're doing things, they're doing things.

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The news keeps rolling out, the news keeps rolling out,

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and this week what we heard was interesting. The reason

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I want to talk about this particular is because of

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Scott's expertise, which he could help us break some of

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this down. But in a nutshell, what we heard this

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week is that Six Flags as a whole, they're going

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to be instituting a charge to go to the Haunted

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Houses for the Legacy Cedar Fair Parks.

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Now the Legacy Cedar Fair Parks.

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Previously, the Haunted Houses had been included with admission, so

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like if you had a season pass, or if you

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had a admission to the park on that day when

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the Haunted House is opened. They weren't necessarily open all day,

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but when they did open, you could just go to

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them and get in line. So they basically treated them

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like any other attraction that's at the park. Okay, they

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were just kind of included. That's the way that a

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lot of the legacy Cedar Fair parks operated. Now, however,

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they're going to operate more like the Six Flags model,

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which is where you're going to have to purchase a

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attraction pass for the Hunted houses, and there are different

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options for these attraction passes. But to make things even

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a little bit more complicated, there are four locations where

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they're going to be testing out a new upcharge experience

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for the conjuring, and that's not included in the attraction pass.

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So if you are at.

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One of those locations and you want to do Halloween,

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you would pay for your admission ticket, then you would

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pay for your Haunted House ticket. For the other Hunted houses,

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then if you want to do the you'd pay additionally

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for that one. So you'd have these potentially three levels.

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So if this is sounding a little bit like the

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lightning lane system. Trust your instincts, I think on this.

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So plus then again there's also fast passes, So you

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have like the regular line front houses, then you have

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the fast pass line. Then you have the up charge

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for this. So there's a lot of charges coming out

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for this. So this has understandably upset quite a few individuals,

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especially because it was not this was not made clear

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when people purchase their season passes for this calendar year.

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And I think that is really where you're seeing the

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discontent in that some of the passolders are not.

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Well. I'm just going to read some comments.

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So this story is everywhere, obviously, and there's lots of

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comments out there. I'm just going to read some comments

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that range. So there's a folks that said that it's

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going to lose a lot of customers this way because

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they're not paying extra for haunted houses. That's one perspective.

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Another perspective is saying they are cheating the twenty twenty

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five season pass holders. They did not advertise this change

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when selling them passes. I do not like the businesses

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practice of Cedar Fair where they you know, they changed

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their mind. That's perspective two. And then Perspective three is

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basically saying that if you're going to improve the quality

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of the attractions, there needs to be investment, and that

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investment comes from stuff like tickets. So we have a

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wide range from the pass holders about how they feel

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about this, where there are some that seem to be okay,

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as long as the investment is going to actually happen

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in the haunts, right, then you have the other two perspectives.

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The only other details that we have before we can

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get into this discussion. The only the details really is

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that a lot of the haunts at these legacy ones,

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all the haunted houses, they're coming back our returning houses.

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So I think that even further complicates the argument, right,

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which is that why should you pay more or pay

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anything or pay more for a haunted house that is

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returning haunted house that has come back. And I think

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the answer would be in the execution, which we don't

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know yet because they're not open. So the reason that

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I want to bring this up specifically with Scott is

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because of Scott's background with Bush Gardens, his background with

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Bush Gardens Tampa, and then after that having.

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Worked with parks all over the world on.

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Halloween and on this, this whole items that Scott Scott

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has a lot of experience in this and a lot

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of maybe he could help.

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Us with some of the insight. That's the Well.

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First, I want to clarify that, you know, when we

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say that this is completely new to Cedar Fair all

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Cedar Fair parks, that's not one hundred percent true because

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Nuts has always been a separate admission price.

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Yes, for for Halloween.

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That's true, that's true, right, yeah, so it's not not

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as all and act Actually funny you mentioned that too,

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because in all of these announcements there's like two little

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asterisks and they're like basically they're like, you can purchase

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this Hindhouse pass. It's it's ten dollars for this, fifteen

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for this or whatever, and it's like asterisk asterisk, Like

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not at Knots, because obviously Knots has its own pricing

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which is more than any of this, and you have

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to buy for Halloween a Knots anyway, So that's a

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good point.

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Well, and it's part of the reason that the Halloween

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product at Knots has always been so much, so far

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superior to all the other Cedar Fair offerings because they

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had the revenue. They had the money coming in, so

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therefore they could justify a higher spend. So let's start

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with the last one that you mentioned. If they if

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the intent is to elevate the six and we've we

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have both been to six Flags haunts that have not

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been up to standard. Yeah they you know, yeah fis

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Queen and black Light, but and I wish I were joking,

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but there are some The problem with the problem with

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six Flags haunts for me is that they're really all

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over the place. Yes, the quality level is just some

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are excellent and some are just not. And sometimes even

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in the same park, some are excellent and some are

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just not. So if they're going to charge for them, yes,

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that's going to bring in some additional cash or at

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least justify the budgetary spend from the corporate side. The

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flip side of that is the guest expectation is going

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to be higher. You know, when you've got when you've

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got a free haunt, Yeah, okay, it's a dark room

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and a couple of people jump out and say, boom, fine,

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I didn't pay anything for it.

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That's okay.

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It's going to force them, whether they realize it or not,

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it's going to force them to up the quality level

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or piss off a bunch of guests. As far as

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the guests who are saying, you know, this is a

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this is a bait and switch. Basically, you promised us

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that this would be included, and now it's not for

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this transition year. That's just something the company is going

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to have to eat. You know, they're they're just going

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to have to take that. And I will say, you know,

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from a from a customer service standpoint, if you have

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enough longtime season pass holders who gripe about it, deal

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with it on a one on one basis and see

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if you can get them, you know, your your Haunt

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pass or whatever, just to get over this one year.

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Because again, anytime there is a change like this, it's

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got to happen where someone gets disappointed or someone feels

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as though they've been screwed over. So do the best

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you can six Flags to make it right with your guests,

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But don't make a mass announcement saying anybody who's ever

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heard of pass is now going to get a free

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wristband to get into all the haunts. Don't go there

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because that just kind of undermines what you're trying to

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move towards, but deal with guests who are truly upset,

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because as Philip has said, these are different levels of

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frustration or different kinds of reactions, I guess as even

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more fair. And so I think I think what they

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would love to do somewhere down the road is to

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make Halloween a separate admission.

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So make everything like not basically like you think, everything

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I'd like to.

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Do, because again I think that's into I actually believe

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based on my experience, that's kind of industry standard. I agree,

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is that you know, you don't pay for each individual haunt,

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you pay to go into the event. Your season pass

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gives you a discount on that. We always at Bush

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we always tried to make it that the deepest discount

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was for season pass holders. There were there were some

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flash sales, and I can't talk to it now because

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I really don't know, but there were some flash sales

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that that got close to that. But we always made

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sure that our pass holders were the best taken care

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of when it came to discounts to those separate ticket prices.

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We went through this, you know, twenty almost twenty six

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years ago. Now, I guess we went through this very

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very almost twenty seven years ago, because we started a

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year before. Anyway, we we went through a lot of

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discussion to figure out how do we do this? You know,

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is this a mix in? Is this a separate ticket

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and what we discovered based on all of our research

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and again old research, so this may have changed, but

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based on our old research, and I still think to

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a certain extent, it's true. It is much easier to

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go from a separate ticketed event to a mix in

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than it is to go from a mix in to

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a separate ticketed event. And if that is indeed their

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ultimate goal to make everything like nots, then this is

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a stop gap measure. This is a this is a

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we're going to test the waters and see how far

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we can go.

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People.

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You know, every nobody, nobody wants to Nobody wants to

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pay extra for anything.

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I get that.

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I mean no, that's just simply a customer customer things.

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So be prepared, and I'm sure they are. I'm sure

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six Flags is prepared to to live through this transition

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year and and you know, try to deal with the

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guests in the best possible way. Perhaps they can give

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them something else to make them happy. Who's there's a

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million in one ways to make a guest happy. You know,

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everybody thinks, oh, guests get so angry about everything, blah

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blah blah bla blah blah blah blah. Sometimes all you

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have to do is sit down and listen to them. Yep,

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because if they're angry enough to want to talk to somebody,

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they need to be listened to. One of our park

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presidents would hand out his business card and heed. You know,

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he would tell angry guests, if you ever have anything

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that's an issue, call me, I'm the park president. And

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people used to look at him and go, why are

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you doing this?

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That's crazy. You're gonna get all these.

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I don't want to say crazy people. You'll get all

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of these people who don't really have a gripe, but

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who just want to say they have a gripe calling you.

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And he said, honestly, that's not the case. Because they

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have my card. Because they feel as though they have

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direct contact to the guy in charge. They'll only call

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if it's something really big. It's it's a it's a

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weird perception thing. But I think, quite honestly, if we

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want theme park haunt or theme park seasonal events in

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general to continue to grow. This is going to be an.

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Ongoing concept or an ongoing question. Yep.

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You know we're talking about Halloween here, but.

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You can also throw in Christmas. Christmas. Yeah, I was

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going to bring that up. The only reason.

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See now, my recommendation still is charge do Halloween as

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a separate admission, and then make Christmas the gift to

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give back to your guests because Christmas has so many

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things completely unrelated to the attractions industry that people have

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to spend money on. So if you can come back

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and show your goodwill and your kindness and your love

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of the season and say, you know, we'll make it

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just part of your your pass or part of your

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day ticket and then you know, find find different ways

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to do up charges. But you know, it sounds like

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they're they're testing, they're testing the waters, you know. And

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we said at the beginning of the show that six

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Flags is just doing stuff, and that's good. Six Flags

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should be doing stuff. They should be testing and finding

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out what the new what the new parks are going

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to look like, what the new business model is going

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to be. Because again they've gone through a huge merger,

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they've taken you know, two of two of the giants

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of the industry and smashed them together. And some of

243
00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:39.879
the things are going to work out very smoothly. Some

244
00:12:39.960 --> 00:12:41.919
of the things are going to be a little rockier.

245
00:12:42.440 --> 00:12:44.639
I think we said when we first heard about the merger,

246
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if they can take the quality of if they can

247
00:12:47.200 --> 00:12:50.600
take the quality of Cedar Fair and the efficiency of

248
00:12:51.200 --> 00:12:54.960
six Flags, they can have a really great and financially

249
00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:58.000
successful product. But the only way to do that is

250
00:12:58.039 --> 00:13:00.000
to see what works and what doesn't.

251
00:13:00.279 --> 00:13:00.480
You know.

252
00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:03.759
I go back to when they first started fright fast

253
00:13:03.799 --> 00:13:09.519
at six Flags six Flag Greade America in Gurney. They

254
00:13:09.519 --> 00:13:11.759
didn't even have haunted houses. Back then, it was just

255
00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:13.960
all street stuff. And then they had a Halloween show

256
00:13:14.159 --> 00:13:16.200
and they had a Halloween parade, and then when they

257
00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:18.960
added haunts, the haunts were always first of all, they

258
00:13:18.960 --> 00:13:23.080
were IP based and secondly they were always enough charge.

259
00:13:23.159 --> 00:13:23.399
Yep.

260
00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:26.600
There was never at six Flags Great America when I

261
00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:29.120
was going as a kid, there was never a free

262
00:13:29.120 --> 00:13:29.799
haunted house there.

263
00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:31.679
They were always included.

264
00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:35.080
I mean, they were always an extra ticket.

265
00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:39.759
Last year I went to Cedar Fair, and I did

266
00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:44.159
go when I was working is when I was working

267
00:13:44.159 --> 00:13:46.320
in Detroit, at a haunted house, and then we all

268
00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:50.240
road tipped over to Cedar Fair to go to or

269
00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:53.879
Cedar Point, sorry to go to one of to go

270
00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:56.919
to the Halloween event because it was open on a

271
00:13:57.000 --> 00:13:59.039
day that we were not open, because it's you know,

272
00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:03.679
it was inclined in the admission, right, And it's exactly

273
00:14:03.759 --> 00:14:04.399
what you're saying.

274
00:14:04.639 --> 00:14:09.720
The quality is just all over. It's just not it's

275
00:14:09.759 --> 00:14:10.399
not good.

276
00:14:10.639 --> 00:14:12.879
It's it's not by any stretch, the quality is not

277
00:14:12.919 --> 00:14:13.440
good at all.

278
00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:14.759
And I think.

279
00:14:14.639 --> 00:14:19.799
That's exactly what we're talking about, like the tension between

280
00:14:19.879 --> 00:14:22.559
like it's almost I don't want to say it's a

281
00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:24.519
no win it it's almost like a cash twenty two, right,

282
00:14:24.559 --> 00:14:25.120
It's like.

283
00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:27.399
You it is for the first year. It is for

284
00:14:27.399 --> 00:14:27.879
the first year.

285
00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:30.840
Yeah, because because like I would never I don't even

286
00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:32.919
think it would go back definitely to that event, but

287
00:14:32.960 --> 00:14:33.960
I would certainly.

288
00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:36.480
Never like pay for those at the quality they're at.

289
00:14:36.559 --> 00:14:38.440
I think that's the thing. So I'm wondering.

290
00:14:38.759 --> 00:14:42.240
I think my question is, is was there a better

291
00:14:42.279 --> 00:14:45.120
way to do this? Like, like in my brain, I

292
00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:47.759
guess as a marketer or as somebody who's listened to

293
00:14:47.799 --> 00:14:49.440
you talk about the way you design events.

294
00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:53.159
Now, I'm like, why didn't.

295
00:14:52.919 --> 00:14:57.440
They go park by park even you could do this

296
00:14:57.519 --> 00:15:00.000
park by Parker, But basically, why didn't they say, Okay,

297
00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:01.639
we're going to take this one and we're going to

298
00:15:01.720 --> 00:15:05.000
make the quality the level that people would pay for.

299
00:15:05.159 --> 00:15:07.600
And the first year, like this year, it's going to

300
00:15:07.639 --> 00:15:09.799
be included, and the next year we're going to be like,

301
00:15:09.879 --> 00:15:13.159
we're doing these plus another hunt House, but it's going

302
00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:15.360
to be a separately ticket event. So you give them

303
00:15:15.399 --> 00:15:18.120
like a free sample, you show them here's the new

304
00:15:18.279 --> 00:15:21.440
quality you can expect for our new events. And but

305
00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:23.840
then also we're gonna it's gonna be even bigger and

306
00:15:23.879 --> 00:15:26.279
better next year, but it's going to be a separately

307
00:15:26.360 --> 00:15:28.440
ticketed event, you know, and that kind of thing.

308
00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:30.600
Do you remember the financial report that we talked about

309
00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:32.600
last week. Yeah, it's the money money to do that.

310
00:15:32.720 --> 00:15:34.159
There's no money to do that. There's no money to

311
00:15:34.159 --> 00:15:36.519
do that. So it's really so I actually that's what

312
00:15:36.679 --> 00:15:37.039
makes it.

313
00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:40.840
There's no investment. No, no, But you're absolutely right. The

314
00:15:41.000 --> 00:15:43.240
reason people are balking at having to pay for them

315
00:15:43.279 --> 00:15:45.480
is because they know what the quality, or they feel

316
00:15:45.519 --> 00:15:48.679
they know what the quality is that they're buying. They

317
00:15:48.720 --> 00:15:52.120
think they're buying what they've gotten for free before. Yeah,

318
00:15:53.960 --> 00:15:58.879
the way through this is to not make any promises upfront.

319
00:15:59.799 --> 00:16:02.600
But when people do decide, because there's still gonna be

320
00:16:02.639 --> 00:16:05.159
people who are going to buy and go and go

321
00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:08.360
to the haunts, they are it. I will say it's

322
00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:10.200
going to do a couple of things. Number one, it

323
00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:12.440
is going to put more pressure on the quality, which

324
00:16:12.480 --> 00:16:15.360
is good. You know sometimes pressure makes us get better.

325
00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:16.519
What is it?

326
00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:20.720
Pressure makes a diamond. So the other side of it too,

327
00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:25.159
is it's it's also going to control.

328
00:16:24.919 --> 00:16:27.200
Q lines better. Yeah, it's gonna make the line.

329
00:16:27.279 --> 00:16:29.639
But because we're not gonna have you're not gonna have kids.

330
00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:31.960
You know, you're not gonna have the twelve year olds

331
00:16:31.960 --> 00:16:34.600
who are just getting out of line getting back into line.

332
00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:37.679
I think there's also and I'm going out on a

333
00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:41.000
limb here, so I have nothing this is anecdotal or

334
00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:44.320
if not just opinion. I also think it's gonna help

335
00:16:44.399 --> 00:16:47.279
with safety, because if you have to pay to go,

336
00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:49.960
you are not going to just go every time and

337
00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:51.559
know where all the actors are so that you can

338
00:16:51.600 --> 00:16:56.039
scare them or trip them before they scare you. So

339
00:16:56.039 --> 00:16:57.840
so I think I think that I think that may

340
00:16:57.879 --> 00:17:01.440
help in the short term. But like I said, if

341
00:17:01.480 --> 00:17:04.079
I were, if I were a betting man, I would

342
00:17:04.079 --> 00:17:06.519
say that eventually they're going to try to get it

343
00:17:06.559 --> 00:17:08.039
so that Halloween is a separate ticket.

344
00:17:09.720 --> 00:17:14.000
I understand everybody. I understand nobody wants to pay for anything.

345
00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:16.559
I mean, I get that, and I also I also

346
00:17:16.599 --> 00:17:18.759
think we have to be sensitive about some of the

347
00:17:18.799 --> 00:17:21.359
markets that these are in. You know, I mean a

348
00:17:21.400 --> 00:17:23.880
lot of the with six Flags is you know, they

349
00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:26.519
have so many parks in different markets. Some of those

350
00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:32.200
regions are in areas that are you know, like stuff

351
00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:34.720
is cheaper, right, I mean it's not like here where

352
00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:35.759
I'm at in Los Angeles.

353
00:17:35.799 --> 00:17:37.839
I mean everything's expensive and you expect to pay for everything.

354
00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:41.000
Right, It's like the environment of even parking is thirty

355
00:17:41.000 --> 00:17:43.119
five dollars, right, It's like that environment. That's not the

356
00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:46.720
case in other regions where so they're operating different markets.

357
00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:50.079
But I think what I would say is despite all

358
00:17:50.119 --> 00:17:53.559
of that, I do think a separately ticket event is

359
00:17:53.559 --> 00:17:55.920
always a way to go, not just for the logistics

360
00:17:55.960 --> 00:17:57.920
and for the safety and for all of those reasons.

361
00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:01.039
But then you get into a situation where you can

362
00:18:02.160 --> 00:18:05.680
you have a budget for investment, so you get people

363
00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:08.160
paid to go to the experience, which means it controls

364
00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:09.680
on the safety and the controls on the crowds and

365
00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:12.079
all that. But then there's also a budget for investment,

366
00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:16.160
which then allows you to create a tractions that are

367
00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:19.359
worth going to. I think I think this problem that

368
00:18:19.400 --> 00:18:21.599
they're in right now is like the haunts are not

369
00:18:21.720 --> 00:18:24.519
worth paying for, but they have no budget to pay

370
00:18:24.559 --> 00:18:27.440
for new haunts, and so what now They're going to

371
00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:30.559
charge for stuff that they had last year? But then

372
00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:32.880
that's just gonna throw people off in the brand. Like

373
00:18:33.039 --> 00:18:35.839
I wonder if if an answer would have been, I mean,

374
00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:40.519
this is radical, but like just cut Halloween entirely and

375
00:18:40.559 --> 00:18:43.079
then say we're only going to open Halloween at these

376
00:18:43.240 --> 00:18:47.079
few locations, and those locations we're going to charge for

377
00:18:47.240 --> 00:18:49.240
and we're going to like move the set pieces and

378
00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:52.160
move this stuff and try to rebuild it one at

379
00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:52.519
a time.

380
00:18:52.599 --> 00:18:56.000
Again, does that help? Does that help their overall brand?

381
00:18:56.039 --> 00:18:58.240
I mean, if they're trying to be your local park,

382
00:18:58.680 --> 00:19:02.160
that's that's going against their master plan, is that is

383
00:19:02.240 --> 00:19:03.680
the antithesis of their master plan.

384
00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:05.200
Then how do they get to a separately ticket at

385
00:19:05.200 --> 00:19:06.240
event where they I.

386
00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:07.720
Think I think it's I think what's going to well,

387
00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:09.359
because it's gonna take three to five years.

388
00:19:09.519 --> 00:19:11.720
Okay, it's gonna take three to five years.

389
00:19:12.039 --> 00:19:15.359
I think they'll they'll get the they'll you know, they'll

390
00:19:15.359 --> 00:19:17.759
get the extra revenue that they so sorely need, and

391
00:19:17.799 --> 00:19:20.440
then they'll get a lot of guests pushback saying, Okay,

392
00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:22.680
these houses are crap there, and they will get more.

393
00:19:22.839 --> 00:19:24.799
These houses are crap because it's more crap if you

394
00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:26.880
have to pay for it, yep, than if it's free.

395
00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:29.000
If it's free, we tolerate crap. If you have to

396
00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:33.160
pay for it, we don't. So and that's going to

397
00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:37.359
force them, and it's probably already on their radar. It's

398
00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:41.200
going to encourage them or or reinforce the need to

399
00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:46.640
upgrade the quality. And then you know, then maybe another

400
00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:50.759
year of uh separate ticket and then maybe the next

401
00:19:50.839 --> 00:19:53.839
year is you only have two options, you have a

402
00:19:53.880 --> 00:19:57.680
park pass or park plus Haunt. And then the next

403
00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:03.440
year is you can get park after four ticket which

404
00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:05.400
includes Haunt, and then you just make.

405
00:20:05.240 --> 00:20:06.799
It a separate ticketed event. The following year.

406
00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:08.960
I mean, you got to go in stages, and each

407
00:20:09.000 --> 00:20:11.400
step along the way you're gonna have somebody who's gonna complain,

408
00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:15.160
but eventually you can retrain your audience and that's the

409
00:20:15.359 --> 00:20:16.160
that's the challenge.

410
00:20:16.200 --> 00:20:19.640
Well, this all though, depends on the execution, which is

411
00:20:19.640 --> 00:20:21.440
what we said about every original plan.

412
00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:26.319
Everything does, everything does depend upon the air and I sorry,

413
00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:26.880
go ahead.

414
00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:27.440
I was gonna say.

415
00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:29.839
I think we talked about this several weeks ago, where

416
00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:32.640
it's like they did have that really good plan from

417
00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:36.119
the investor call and then things have not gone according

418
00:20:36.119 --> 00:20:39.799
to plan. And I think something that we talked about

419
00:20:39.799 --> 00:20:42.000
then is that it's up to the execution. But it's

420
00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:45.200
also the fact that you know, these people can the

421
00:20:45.279 --> 00:20:48.359
executives can sit in a room and you know, pontificate

422
00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:50.119
and write a plan to the investors and all that.

423
00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:53.359
But there this is the downside having so many parks.

424
00:20:53.680 --> 00:20:56.119
You have so many parks that you have staff at

425
00:20:56.160 --> 00:20:58.640
every park, and it's like you need the whole company

426
00:20:58.680 --> 00:21:01.400
to move in a direction, and just there's this time.

427
00:21:01.680 --> 00:21:04.519
It just it takes time to translate from there, and

428
00:21:04.599 --> 00:21:08.839
I wonder, I just I guess I'm just I'm not

429
00:21:10.519 --> 00:21:13.720
having seen so far that they have not been able

430
00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:16.200
to get the staff to move as quickly to execute

431
00:21:16.200 --> 00:21:19.799
their plan. I don't foresee that they're going to be

432
00:21:19.799 --> 00:21:23.279
able to improve the quality enough at these Halloween events

433
00:21:23.319 --> 00:21:25.839
this year to be able to justify even ten dollars

434
00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:29.599
for them, So I think they might derail this well.

435
00:21:29.839 --> 00:21:31.400
I think they're gonna have to just live with this

436
00:21:31.519 --> 00:21:34.920
year and let this year be the You know, anytime

437
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:38.559
you change something. You know, if you own a restaurant

438
00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:40.400
and a cup of coffee goes from a buck to

439
00:21:40.400 --> 00:21:43.519
a buck twenty five, you're gonna have people I'm.

440
00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:46.519
Never coming back here again. I'm not gonna pend an extra.

441
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:48.440
Quarter for a cup of coffee, And then you know,

442
00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:50.880
two months down the road, they're back there and they've

443
00:21:50.880 --> 00:21:52.279
forgotten what coffee used to cost.

444
00:21:52.400 --> 00:21:52.599
Yep.

445
00:21:52.680 --> 00:21:55.799
So you have to go through these. You have to

446
00:21:55.799 --> 00:21:57.680
go through these rough spots. You have to go through these.

447
00:21:58.039 --> 00:21:59.640
You know, we used to call them growing pains. You

448
00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:02.359
gotta go through these growing pains in order to get

449
00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:04.799
yourself right size and aligned with the rest of your company,

450
00:22:04.880 --> 00:22:08.799
especially when you've got two diverse approaches coming together into

451
00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:14.119
one company, and from a from a financial and an

452
00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:16.680
operational standpoint, you want to homogenize those together to make

453
00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:19.400
it so there's an economy of scale going on there. Yeah,

454
00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:22.359
I will say that whenever we talk about whenever we

455
00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:25.160
talk about six Flags, it seems that we get a

456
00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:27.759
lot of response. We've had quite a bit of response

457
00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:31.079
on some of the videos that we've posted a lot

458
00:22:31.079 --> 00:22:33.640
of comments on YouTube, and Philip, you've kind of gathered

459
00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:35.680
some of them and put them into categories. Can we

460
00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:36.519
address some of those?

461
00:22:36.640 --> 00:22:36.880
Yeah?

462
00:22:36.920 --> 00:22:41.119
Yeah, So I did want to thank everybody for commenting

463
00:22:41.160 --> 00:22:43.839
on the last video. A lot of comments. Is over

464
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:47.240
eighty comments, and a lot of very substantive comments, and

465
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:48.480
I'll be trying to answer.

466
00:22:48.599 --> 00:22:50.440
I have smart people who listen to it. We only

467
00:22:50.440 --> 00:22:52.240
have smart people who watch it. Yeah, only smartly.

468
00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:55.200
Well, if you made it this far, that's true in

469
00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:58.839
the video, that's true. But I do want to thank

470
00:22:58.839 --> 00:23:02.279
everybody for putting their questions in there. They're very substantive.

471
00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:04.400
I'm not sure I will have time to reply to

472
00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:07.839
everything because it's in the hallowing season and we're pretty slammed.

473
00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:11.319
But I did read through the comments and I have

474
00:23:11.440 --> 00:23:15.240
put them into kind of a few buckets of items

475
00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:18.480
that we did not address in the previous video.

476
00:23:18.559 --> 00:23:19.720
So I did want to get to that.

477
00:23:19.839 --> 00:23:24.720
So the first is this theme where like Universal having

478
00:23:24.759 --> 00:23:27.240
eaten into the Six Flags market share in the last

479
00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:29.799
seven to eight years. That's been a theme at several comments.

480
00:23:30.000 --> 00:23:33.319
And what I would say to that is, see again,

481
00:23:33.359 --> 00:23:36.039
see what we talked about the regional elements. Like a

482
00:23:36.079 --> 00:23:38.400
lot of this is like I think, because we're in

483
00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:42.400
the theme park world, we're so focused on like Disney Universal,

484
00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:44.519
Six Flag, I mean, we're so in this focus, but

485
00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:50.079
like most of the Six Flags attendees are like regional

486
00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:51.599
people who.

487
00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:54.279
We talked about this before when we talked.

488
00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:58.720
About the whole destination versus regional approach, right, So I

489
00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:01.119
don't actually think that it's into their market that much

490
00:24:01.200 --> 00:24:04.039
because really, if you're going to Universal or going to Disney,

491
00:24:04.119 --> 00:24:06.480
it's a it's a destination. You're going to do that,

492
00:24:06.519 --> 00:24:08.960
like you're going to work that into your plan, right,

493
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:11.799
and then otherwise you're going to stay within your region.

494
00:24:12.119 --> 00:24:14.920
So it's more like you're choosing between the regional park.

495
00:24:14.960 --> 00:24:17.759
So you're choosing between like Hershey Park and some of

496
00:24:17.799 --> 00:24:20.359
the breed in that area, or Silver Dollar City, and

497
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:21.480
that I.

498
00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:24.240
Would go so far as to say, uh, the only

499
00:24:24.279 --> 00:24:28.480
place that's happening is where a Universal park and a

500
00:24:28.480 --> 00:24:31.920
Flags park actually share demographic.

501
00:24:32.039 --> 00:24:36.400
Yeah, actually share guests. Which Florida. Yeah, in California.

502
00:24:36.480 --> 00:24:38.359
California is really the only place I can think of

503
00:24:38.839 --> 00:24:44.759
that that actually has a Universal, a Universal property and

504
00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:50.039
a Six Flags property in Florida. No, there's there's no

505
00:24:50.039 --> 00:24:55.359
way Universal has impacted the Six Flags attendance in any way,

506
00:24:55.359 --> 00:24:58.079
shape or form. And even if they even if there

507
00:24:58.200 --> 00:25:00.599
was a Six Flags park here. To fill 's point,

508
00:25:02.079 --> 00:25:08.079
Halloween Hornet's is good, bad, or indifferent is the benchmark.

509
00:25:08.119 --> 00:25:10.480
I mean, it is the It's the granddaddy. It's been

510
00:25:10.480 --> 00:25:13.920
around the longest, it's been operating full blast. It kiss

511
00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:17.920
keeps expanding. It's got a fan base that just doesn't quit.51200:25:18.839 --> 00:25:22.519



So if there were a six Flags park that were51300:25:22.519 --> 00:25:24.880



to all of a sudden pop up here in Florida, yeah,51400:25:25.039 --> 00:25:26.680



it would take a it would It would be really51500:25:26.680 --> 00:25:29.039



hard for them to chip away at that market. Trust me,51600:25:29.279 --> 00:25:31.039



I tried it twenty six years ago with when we51700:25:31.039 --> 00:25:33.359



created Ali Scream, and we did we decided, nope, we're51800:25:33.359 --> 00:25:34.599



not going to go toe to toe. We're not going51900:25:34.680 --> 00:25:37.039



to go to to toe. And the guest said, well,52000:25:37.079 --> 00:25:39.920



it's it's all we'll come to see. So our differentiation52100:25:40.000 --> 00:25:43.680



point was we were we would create original stories, news stories,52200:25:44.640 --> 00:25:47.599



not just not just movie not just movie stories. That52300:25:47.759 --> 00:25:50.720



was our and we focused They focused on big sets52400:25:50.720 --> 00:25:55.720



and big scenic and we focused on intimacy and human scares.52500:25:55.759 --> 00:25:55.920



You know.52600:25:55.960 --> 00:25:59.359



So the you have to find carve out your niche.52700:26:00.359 --> 00:26:05.920



But to say that, to say that Universal has outside52800:26:05.960 --> 00:26:08.880



of California, to say that Universal has pulled market share52900:26:09.920 --> 00:26:12.640



from six flags, I'm not I don't see it.53000:26:12.920 --> 00:26:17.839



Yeah, sorry that yes, California, Yes, yeah, California is the53100:26:17.839 --> 00:26:20.720



only one, and it is not like that's not insignificant, right,53200:26:20.720 --> 00:26:23.759



you have Magic Mountain and you have not all within53300:26:23.839 --> 00:26:27.000



the same region. But also it's the smallest Universal park.53400:26:27.720 --> 00:26:31.359



Well maybe Singapore is smaller, that's possible, Singamore smaller, but yeah,53500:26:31.400 --> 00:26:34.279



it's it's definitely on a different scale, right, and there53600:26:34.599 --> 00:26:38.319



it's much easier to draw your lines of differentiation, right53700:26:38.400 --> 00:26:40.240



like you had the studio tour. It's still an active53800:26:40.240 --> 00:26:44.000



studio here all that, and the lines are better. But okay,53900:26:44.079 --> 00:26:47.519



it moving on. So the next kind of bucket of54000:26:47.559 --> 00:26:50.279



comments I think had to deal with us not addressing54100:26:50.319 --> 00:26:52.759



the meal plans, which is something we totally forgot about.54200:26:52.799 --> 00:26:57.440



So last episode we talked about the concept of the54300:26:57.519 --> 00:26:59.400



six Flag talked about in their investor meeting, which is54400:26:59.440 --> 00:27:01.160



that they want to get more people in the park,54500:27:01.279 --> 00:27:04.680



especially season pass holders, to get them to return more54600:27:04.720 --> 00:27:07.559



often so they can then purchase items in the park,54700:27:07.920 --> 00:27:10.759



and we talked about food and beverage and merchandise being54800:27:10.799 --> 00:27:13.200



purchase options, and a lot of folks in the comments54900:27:13.240 --> 00:27:16.359



pointed out that they also sell the meal plans, which55000:27:16.400 --> 00:27:19.480



is like two meals per visit with unlimited visits and55100:27:19.519 --> 00:27:23.680



then unlimited drinks each visit, and especially comments like how55200:27:23.720 --> 00:27:25.519



are the how is the park supposed to make money55300:27:25.599 --> 00:27:29.279



when they're giving away the gate and the food and so, Scott,55400:27:29.519 --> 00:27:30.160



what do you think?55500:27:30.799 --> 00:27:33.160



Well, I think that one thing you have to recognize is,55600:27:33.920 --> 00:27:39.720



especially for things like seasonal activations, season pass holders don't55700:27:39.720 --> 00:27:43.720



come alone. Yes, they bring friends, they bring family, and55800:27:43.759 --> 00:27:46.000



they they're the ones who are usually the ringleaders who55900:27:46.039 --> 00:27:49.000



will say, well, I've got to pass, so I'll drive56000:27:49.039 --> 00:27:51.960



because I get free parking, and we'll go ahead and56100:27:52.079 --> 00:27:57.440



do this, do that, do this, and so therefore those56200:27:57.480 --> 00:28:00.799



people that they bring along with them won't have the56300:28:00.839 --> 00:28:03.200



meal plan. And you know, I know there are people56400:28:03.200 --> 00:28:04.720



out there who are going to say well, that's that's56500:28:04.759 --> 00:28:07.680



an outlier, Scott, that's not that's not the vast majority.56600:28:08.640 --> 00:28:12.279



Trust me, it is the vast majority.56700:28:12.359 --> 00:28:12.559



You know.56800:28:12.680 --> 00:28:15.119



It's even if even if they bring one person who56900:28:15.160 --> 00:28:17.480



pays full price, you know, a group of ten people57000:28:17.519 --> 00:28:20.960



brings one person who pays full price and then buys57100:28:21.400 --> 00:28:24.039



meals to try to keep up with the people who57200:28:24.079 --> 00:28:28.079



have two meals and unlimited drinks. The other person's going57300:28:28.160 --> 00:28:29.720



to try to keep up with them as long as57400:28:29.720 --> 00:28:31.920



they're not you know, passing the cut back and forth,57500:28:31.960 --> 00:28:36.720



which also happens, which also happens. But what they have57600:28:36.799 --> 00:28:39.279



to do, especially at this transition period, is they have57700:28:39.319 --> 00:28:41.480



to keep the turnstiles turning. They have to keep those57800:28:41.519 --> 00:28:47.160



turnstyles clicking. So I don't know whether the meal plan, yes,57900:28:47.240 --> 00:28:48.759



it is going to impact them. And I appreciate you58000:28:48.799 --> 00:28:52.119



guys bringing it up that wash that was our our58100:28:52.240 --> 00:28:56.920



miss on not not mentioning it. But I still don't58200:28:56.960 --> 00:29:00.400



think it's going to be that much of it issue58300:29:00.440 --> 00:29:05.920



because quite honestly, especially during Halloween events, people rarely eat.58400:29:06.519 --> 00:29:08.480



They'll eat during the day, but they don't want to58500:29:08.480 --> 00:29:10.920



waste their time eating at night because you know, they've58600:29:10.920 --> 00:29:12.240



got to wait in a queue, and they've got to58700:29:12.279 --> 00:29:13.680



get make sure they get to all the haunts, and58800:29:13.720 --> 00:29:16.519



they got to there's a very limited time that they58900:29:16.599 --> 00:29:20.200



got to do everything, So grab and go at best59000:29:20.920 --> 00:29:24.920



sit down dinners are really hard for a Halloween event,59100:29:25.000 --> 00:29:27.279



especially if you're only going once.59200:29:27.759 --> 00:29:28.759



Yep, yep.59300:29:29.640 --> 00:29:31.960



I think we're basically at a time. I think the59400:29:32.039 --> 00:29:35.200



last bucket that we had was just that the problem59500:29:35.440 --> 00:29:37.920



someone pointed out rightfully. So the problem is Cedar Fair59600:29:37.960 --> 00:29:40.319



and six Flags had two different models, and we've talked59700:29:40.319 --> 00:29:43.039



about I think we've kind of already discussed that, but59800:29:43.160 --> 00:29:45.480



especially when we started the show with the Halloween model.59900:29:45.519 --> 00:29:47.880



But that's this is exactly the problem, right, is that60000:29:47.960 --> 00:29:52.559



they're cherry picking policies from one park and from the60100:29:52.599 --> 00:29:55.000



other park, and then they're putting them at back and forth, right,60200:29:55.079 --> 00:29:58.680



and they're like cross pollinating ideas, and that is, like60300:29:58.720 --> 00:30:00.960



Scott said, anytime you make a just going to cause friction.60400:30:01.400 --> 00:30:03.519



And so I think the question the thing I always60500:30:03.559 --> 00:30:07.240



say is like it depends on the execution, Like what60600:30:07.319 --> 00:30:09.240



are the haunts actually going to look like? What is60700:30:09.279 --> 00:30:10.960



the thing actually going to look like? What what is60800:30:11.000 --> 00:30:14.279



it going to be like when you go there? Because60900:30:14.960 --> 00:30:17.119



I think that's that's where it's it's all gonna it's61000:30:17.119 --> 00:30:18.759



all gonna come out, because some of these policies can61100:30:18.799 --> 00:30:23.039



be really great implemented at the other counter parks. Right,61200:30:23.039 --> 00:30:26.000



it just depends on what they how they actually do it.61300:30:26.920 --> 00:30:29.039



Well, and and what's going to happen is no matter61400:30:29.160 --> 00:30:31.480



they're they're for these first couple of years. They're kind61500:30:31.480 --> 00:30:32.759



of darned if they do darned if they don't.61600:30:32.839 --> 00:30:33.200



That's right.61700:30:33.440 --> 00:30:39.240



The things, the things that have worked at at Cedar Parks,61800:30:39.480 --> 00:30:41.400



at Cedar Fair Parks, and the things that have worked61900:30:41.440 --> 00:30:43.799



at six Flags Parks are going to piss off the62000:30:43.799 --> 00:30:46.599



people in the other parks. So you know, they've got62100:30:46.640 --> 00:30:49.079



to find their way. And we, of course from the62200:30:49.160 --> 00:30:52.160



very beginning, have suggested they should cherry pick. They should62300:30:52.160 --> 00:30:55.240



take what works in both companies and try to try62400:30:55.279 --> 00:30:58.519



to make it work together into into one company. But62500:30:58.559 --> 00:31:00.640



that takes time. You can't just all of a sudden62600:31:00.720 --> 00:31:03.799



change behavior like that. You can't change the behavior of62700:31:03.839 --> 00:31:06.640



the guests. You can't change the guest expectations. You can't62800:31:06.720 --> 00:31:09.960



change the people who run the parks and who work62900:31:09.960 --> 00:31:12.920



in the parks. You can't change their mentality instantly. That63000:31:13.039 --> 00:31:17.160



takes a whole bunch of time, and unfortunately time is63100:31:17.200 --> 00:31:19.079



the one thing that we don't have anymore. We've now63200:31:19.160 --> 00:31:20.599



run out of it. So this is the end of63300:31:20.640 --> 00:31:22.880



this week's Green Tag Theme Park in thirty. If you63400:31:23.000 --> 00:31:27.759



are an unhinged patriot who will join us run Hinge,63500:31:27.799 --> 00:31:29.519



please do so because we will be talking a lot63600:31:29.759 --> 00:31:31.880



more about some of the questions that we've been asked63700:31:32.119 --> 00:31:34.279



over the past week and some comments that we've received63800:31:34.319 --> 00:31:36.920



from some very dedicated listeners, and we really appreciate that.63900:31:37.359 --> 00:31:40.480



So until next week, this is Scott Swinson and Philip64000:31:40.480 --> 00:31:42.559



Hernandez with Green Tag Theme Park in thirty.64100:31:42.720 --> 00:31:44.079



We will see you next week.