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Okay from our studios this week in Los Angeles and Tampa.
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This is Green Tag at Theme Park and thirty. I'm
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Philip from Ganto Mighty and Controls that I'm joined as
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always by my delightful co host who loves his spinish
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espresso hot Scott Swinson of Scott Swenson creat Development. On
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Green Tag, we look at the top news each week
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and we explain why it matters to business professionals in
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the theme park and themed entertainment spaces. And this week
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we were going to pick up, as we usually do nowadays,
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with the continuation of the latest six Flags saga, and
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we're we're going to try and get to some other
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stories about earnings from Merlins and what's going on in
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Mexico with excrat.
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So onto six Flags one day or back to six Flags,
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maybe that's the more accurate description.
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Meanwhile, back at six Flags. Meanwhile, back at six Flags.
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Last time that we talked about six Flags was two
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weeks ago because we had that sojourned into the Halloween
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world with our coverage of trans World. But now that
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we're back, it's remember last time we talked about how
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Jana was pressuring six Legs to sell But the secondary
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demand they had was them to replace the board because
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they didn't think that the head of the chairman of
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the board was effective basically or you know, they had
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all these things, it's not effective, mismanagement.
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It was that strange story about they support they support
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the CEO, but they don't support the board.
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Yeah, it was strange.
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And then we were talking about how it's possible that
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if the board really is hindering the CEO, then that
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could be preventing some of the changes.
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Mean, that's kind of was absolutely.
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Oh yeah, it's it's there are many many stories in
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the theme park industry about how the board has either
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directly or indirectly impacted negatively impacted growth and new development.
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So it's nothing nothing new or surprising to me. I've
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lived it, and for those of you who know my
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career and easily understand exactly what I'm talking about. And
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Six Flags did replace the board pretty quickly. I mean,
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this was what we talked about it too, so less
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than two weeks. I mean, this whole thing happened.
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In a week and a half or whatever. And so
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they announced this week that the appointment of Richard Hadrill
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as executive chairman of the Six Flags Board directors, effective
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immediately with mister Hadrill's appointment, Marlon Spiegel Maryland sorry, Marylynd
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Spiel will serve as lead independent director, so that Maryland
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was the previous executive director, so now she's going down
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to lead in the pan director, but she's still going
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to be on the board. And in the press release
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they talked about how they're trying. Basically, over the last
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several months, six Flags has taken decisive actions to improve performance,
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including appointing John Riley a CEO in December, accelerating the
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company's portfolio optimization, and improving its capital structure. All of
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those things are true. They did put the new CEO,
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and they did sell a bunch of parks to improve
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their debt, but not by much. So Hadro's appointment to
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continue six Flags' effort to refresh the composition of its
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board and reinforce its commitment to ensuring the board has
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the right mix of skills to oversee the company's successful
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evolution and what skills you might be asking well. He
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came from his previous role was executive vice chairman of
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the Board of Scientific Games, which is now Light and Wonder,
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a leading provider of gaming entertainment solutions services. Before that,
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he served as chief executive officer of Ballet Technologies, where
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he led the company through a significant growth and strategic transformation,
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culming in its acquisition by Scientific Games, which so he
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did kind of just stay there. So what do you think, Scott.
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Well, I mean, I'm just glad that we're seeing six
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Flags taking the action on what they're saying they want
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to do. You know, they all too often we will
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hear with many organizations we should do this, or this
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is what we want you to do, or this is
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where we should go and this is and then nothing happens,
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or they go about it so slowly that their minds
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they change their mind before they actually implement the first
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thing they.
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Thought they should do.
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So I don't I don't think in this particular case
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because normally I'm usually the measure twice cut once kind
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of guy. But in this particular case, I think a
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rapid action is a wise move. And I think that
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especially especially if, as our previous reports suggested, that the
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board is standing in the way of the new CEO.
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So there's there's that, and that may have been you know,
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there may be something that we don't know yet. That
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may have been some of the challenges even prior to
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the merger. I mean that that may have been one
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of the issues that was challenging either six Flags or
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Cedar Fair or both prior to the merger. So it's
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it seems as though they are, as you say, they're
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moving very quick to do what they say they're going
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to do, and you know, people are like, well, he
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doesn't have any theme park experience, but he certainly has
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entertainment experience, and it's entertainment experience that, as we've talked about,
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is becoming more and more part of the theme park world,
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and that is the active engagement side. So it seems
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like it seems like it's not an obvious move, but
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it seems like a decent move when you actually kind
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of break it down, because again, John Riley knows how
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to run parks, that's his background. So you have a
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board chair that knows how to entertain people interactively or
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has worked for companies that know how to entertain people interactively.
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It seems like a nice, nice little marriage. There seems
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like a nice little assuming they can play nicely together.
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It seems like it's bringing kind of the best of
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both worlds into the top of the food chair for
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six flags. What I think is going to be interesting
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now is to see what happens with the rest of
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the board, oh before we get before we get lost. Though,
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I think keeping I do think that keeping Marilyn Spiegel
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is an interesting move. The reason I say it's an
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interesting move is and I don't think it's necessarily bad.
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I'm gonna I'm gonna.
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Play cup half full here. I think having someone still
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actively and strongly on the board who knows what went wrong,
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who knows the path, can answer some questions moving forward
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to finding a solution. I think all too often companies,
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not just on their board, on the board level, but
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on any level, will when things are going wrong. They
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get rid of all the people who were there when
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things went wrong, A whole new team comes in, They
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try all kinds of new stuff without knowing why things.
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Went wrong to begin with.
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So I think keeping I think keeping her on could
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could conceivably be a smart move and one that is
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not based on ego but is based on trying to
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get the most out of this board.
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And trying to make the company turn around.
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Because she has knowledge that nobody outside the realm of
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the board would have and so I think keeping keeping
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her on and keeping her in a position that is
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not you know, the janitor is a wise is a
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very wise move assuming that everyone can put their egos
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aside and they can they can work together to do
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their jobs as a board and a c suite gathering
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to make the parks and the brand successful again. So
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she has basically she has knowledge that could be very.
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Useful to them in the future, right right.
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I think now it's all just a little bit on John.
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So this is the interesting thing I took from it,
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which is it's almost like I know how to say it,
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but it feels a little bit like they're putting a
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lot of a lot of what do you want to say,
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faith or trust or expectation, whatever the word do you
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want to say is on John Riley here because now
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with this weird political machinations, they have cover to say, well,
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we even replace the executive chairman of the board, so
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you should have no excuse for what you're not going
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to do. And that may or may not be true
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because we're still operating off of no information, so we
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don't really know that the board was a problem. But
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if you assume that the board was a problem, and
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now they've kind of lost that cover. But at the
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same time, like you said, Marilyn is still there, and
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so the half full lens is, like you said, she
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has institutional knowledge that it's critical to avoid future failure.
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The other end of it is it's a game of
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throne situation, right, and she's still there pulling strings and
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causing mischief and we just don't know either way. But
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the only thing I can see from this is now,
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basically it's like Janna.
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They've given Jen everything they want.
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So what is their excuse now, which is you know
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you've you've said you like John Riley and John we
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put John Riley there, and then you said you weren't
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happy with the boards.
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We replaced the board, so they replaced the they replaced
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the chairman.
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They replaced the chairman, yet not replaced the board. So
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it's but.
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I no, I think again, half full, half full is okay.
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We're listening to you as our investors, and we're making
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the changes that you want. The half empty is we
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still have board members from the old board who may
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still be following Maryland's lead, who may not be happy
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with John Riley, because again, through either through fault of
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his or through no fault of his, they have been
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they have been pitted against one another because they like
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one they don't like the other. And also we have
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to keep in mind that Jen is only nine percent
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of the YEP only owns nine percent of the of
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the company. So I think it it is important to
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me this looks like a moderated but intelligent series of actions.
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YEP.
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That's That's the best way I can describe it, because
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all too often, you know, in so many odd and
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often disjointed situations, people will go nobody likes us, Great,
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we're getting rid of it, and everything goes and and
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you're left with a completely You're left with the same
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problem on the different side of the spectrum. So to
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make these kinds of moderate changes, and I realize getting
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rid of a board of the board of the director
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of the board is not necessarily a moderate change.
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It is a pretty radical change.
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But they're not swiping out the entire board, and they're
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not clearing out the previous board chair. So I think
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it sounds like they are making every effort. My only
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concern is I hope and this kind of echoes what
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you were saying, I hope that they're not setting up
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John Rawley toil because I can say we've done everything,
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We've done everything you asked for, all right, John. But
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at the same time, it also kind of gives John
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the freedom to enact all those things that he discovered
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when he was when he was in the parks, you know,
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and I think there was something like three hundred different
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projects that were brought to his attention or that he's
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looking at, you know, at least further investigation of these things.
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So well, we'll see fingers crossed from our friends at
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six Flags.
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That's right.
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That all we can do now is watch and wait,
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and we will. So next we're going to move over
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to Merlin Entertainments. I don't know. So this is news
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that again is not surprising, and I guess I don't
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even know why it's not surprising, but maybe I have
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some like preconceptions about the Merlin brand. But anyway, Merlin
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just they announced their latest earnings, and you know, basically
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they're in their annual report. They said that their attendance
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and revenue were down. They saw a six point two
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percent drop in it tenants at North America. However, overall,
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they reported total visitor numbers falling two point three million
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in twenty twenty five compared to twenty twenty four, with
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revenue dropping two point eight percent, So just down all
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over the board. And what they said in their annual
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report is competitive intensity remained elevated throughout the year, driven
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by increased promotional activity, widespread discounting across the sector, and
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the launch of a new attractions by competitors, including the
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entry of a new resort into the Florida market.
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Okay, Epic Resort, one might say.
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Yeah, but except that that helped everybody else, so anyway
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they can. They went on to say, looking ahead, we
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are seeing positive momentum in Q one twenty twenty six,
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with an exciting pipeline of new rides and experiences opening
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as the main season gets underway. And that part is
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true because of course, the Galactocaster, which they previewed at Ayapa,
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is going to the two resorts here in California and Florida.
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But that's just one small segment, you know, of the
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Merlin brand, the whole case Merlin.
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I mean, let's for those of you who aren't familiar
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with Merlin, Merlin is not an American company.
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It is. It's based in the UK, if I'm not mistaken,
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and so they.
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Have fingers in many, many countries and as their report showed,
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some of the other countries actually haven't had that bad
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a year.
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Yeah, So what was interesting is pulling like Scott reference.
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So I think for stories like this, I like to
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look also in what the UK is doing to cover it,
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because it's not an American brand, and so on the
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American side, we're focused on the Lego land part of it,
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but they also have Madame Dussade's, they have a lot
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of the sea life stuff, they have a lot of
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other brands that they're involved in. And there was a
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report that came out looking at just the Madame Dussade's thing,
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and it was interesting because it showed that basically Madame
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Deissades is varying according to sector. And I'll quote hear
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from the report. It says North America was the weakest market,
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with underlying sales falling eight percent. However, europe revenues roles
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moderate modest sleek by one percent, although the UK lagged
260
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behind with sales down three point five percent and visitor
261
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numbers dropping six event. Merlin attributed this to weaker demand
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in London, where fewer international tourists and a shift towards
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free attractions have weight on audiences. By contrast, Asia Pacific
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delivered strong growth, legitor numbers rising five point three percent
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and revenues increasing four print five percent. The region also
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saw a sharp one hundred and twenty percent increase in
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underlying operating profits, supported by strong performance at legal and
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resorts in Japan and Shanghai. In response to the downturn,
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Merlin is investing in new concepts to revitalize man of
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Jussad's and attract a broader audience.
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Among the nichiatives.
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Planned in twenty twenty six is an immersive Jumanji themed
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experience set to launch in major locations in New York, Hollywood,
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Las Vegas, and Sydney. So again, it's a more nuanced
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picture where you kind of look at it's like that
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it's this weird thing, where it's like, is this uh
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market area because they operate in so many different countries
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that different countries have different things, or is it a
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market age thing. I mean, I was looking at this
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and thinking, well, another through line here is that North
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America is the most developed, and then you have the
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European is right under that. And then you have Asia
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as a more emerging market still I mean not emerging
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technically but still growing. I guess, whatever you want to
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put on it, but it's not as developed it. It's
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a growth market, there's no question. Yeah, so you could
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map it in that way as well. But this again
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then they said, of course in Asia it's mainly driven
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by the Lego Land, but at the Japan and Shanghai
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right where the competition makeup is different, right.
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The Lego Land.
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I guess I'm saying, I don't know if this is fair,
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but part of me is thinking, I guess in the
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US we have a lot of destinations that I think
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were perceived as better quality than what Merlin is producing.
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But if you look at the competitive of like Shanghai,
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for example, it's the Lego and Shanghai is an excellent thing.
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We went there, I went there to tour it when
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it opened, and I remember saying on the show, how
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Lego and Shanghai is extraordinary.
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I mean, it's a fantastic park.
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It's so well done, so well built, and it's really
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really I mean it's it's very competitive, is my point, right,
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00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:23.720
And so maybe part of this problem is that they're
305
00:16:23.799 --> 00:16:26.559
just a lot of their properties are just not competitive
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00:16:27.000 --> 00:16:28.279
really in the markets they're in.
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But let me ask you, is the is the Lego
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in Shanghai experience? Would you say they are the top
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of the theme park food chain? Where do they fall?
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And I was, as far as competition goes.
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In the Shanghai region, they're probably right under Disney. And
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of course you have Beijing which has Universal but that's
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again it's like that's pretty far you know from from Shanghai.
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I lait and so, you know, but I would say
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that in terms of the family kind of focus and
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00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:06.279
the theming, and you know, the amount of rides and
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all that kind of stuff, it's it's under it's.
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I don't know where you would put it.
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00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:15.759
I guess for American comparison, maybe like Universal Kids might
320
00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:20.559
be a good like comparison because it is strong theming, right,
321
00:17:20.640 --> 00:17:23.440
the like the coasters are themed, the food is themed,
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the the like nothing falls apart, you know in terms
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of like like oh you're looking over here.
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You gotta you got to you gotta use the gotta
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use the glue.
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Well, the legos fall apart, but you know, the theming,
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the narrative structure is is pretty and you know coherence.
328
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Well, it's funny because when I looked at it, and
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this is my own this is probably my own naivete.
330
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But when I looked at it, when they said, you know,
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in in basically basically the Asia markets, these are markets
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that are less reliant on international tourism yep. Obviously, the
333
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North American markets are very much reliant on international tourism,
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and we all know that that is down and we
335
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may discover that that will continue to go down because
336
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of pricing, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Probably the
337
00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:18.359
second in line is the European markets. So it's it
338
00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:21.160
seems as though the pendulum has swung back. And this
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00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:23.400
is anecdotal, this is not based on anything other than
340
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my observations, but it seems as though or the question
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that I wanted to put forth is could it possibly
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be that these markets don't have to rely on international tourism.
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International tourism tourism as much because of the population of
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the area is number one, and number two the fact
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that they've never well not never, but they are less
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reliant on international dollars coming in to make these parks successful.
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That's that's I don't know what you think think about.
348
00:18:53.079 --> 00:18:55.480
And that's very interesting because even if you look at
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their investments in Florida and California, I think that they
350
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are targeting locals, you know, for the Lego Land Galactic coaster,
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like it's really uh so that's interesting to you. So
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you could look at it from any of these lenses,
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you know, is it the region or is it like
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you said, the experiences on an individual level that are
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doing better are ones that are more local focused or
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something that locals would want to do. I guess you
357
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could put it that way versus like, you know, when's it.
358
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I mean, I don't think you ever. Locals never go
359
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to the you know Madame Tussaude stuff, right, or they
360
00:19:29.200 --> 00:19:31.200
never go a lot of the If.
361
00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:33.720
They go, they're taking they're taking relatives. That's that's right,
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00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:36.160
that's taking they're taking people who are visiting from a
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tourist standpoint. The other thing you have to take into consideration,
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00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:40.359
at least in the Florida market, is keep in mind,
365
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Lego Land is nowhere near Orlando.
366
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Yep.
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It's near, but it's it's an hour away yepically, So
368
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it's it's not something that you're going to hop on
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a bus on International Drive and have it drop you
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off at Lego Land.
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So I think your point to that also back to
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what they said about the competition. Because they weren't close
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enough to Epic, they probably didn't get that tourist bump
374
00:20:05.079 --> 00:20:07.359
because people aren't going to take an hour or get
375
00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:10.039
an uber or find a bus or taxi or whatever
376
00:20:10.319 --> 00:20:12.640
to go an hour out when they're there for Epic.
377
00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:16.119
They're going to stay within the little bubble which boosted
378
00:20:16.160 --> 00:20:20.160
Disney because it's close enough to Disney and SeaWorld.
379
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:22.559
And Universal and you know, every every other park in Orlando.
380
00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:25.200
My guess is point Orlando is having a good year.
381
00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:27.200
I don't know that, but you know I would. And
382
00:20:27.240 --> 00:20:28.960
there is a there is a two SuDS there, so
383
00:20:29.039 --> 00:20:32.200
I'm curious whether that individual will be doing any any better.
384
00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:35.440
But and a sea life. There's a sea life there
385
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:35.759
as well.
386
00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:36.279
Yeah.
387
00:20:36.279 --> 00:20:39.400
So uh, but yeah, I think that that was kind
388
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:40.920
of my point in saying that it's it's a little
389
00:20:40.920 --> 00:20:44.680
bit outside of the the realm because it's yes, it's
390
00:20:44.759 --> 00:20:48.920
drawing people to the Orlando specific market, but the Lego
391
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:50.960
Land in Florida is quite away from Orlando.
392
00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:53.720
It's quite aways from Tampa, you know it was.
393
00:20:53.799 --> 00:21:00.680
It's out in the old the old Cyperuscarden area, you know,
394
00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:04.000
it's it's kind of in the to be honest, kind
395
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:06.119
of in the middle of nowhere. Sorry people who live there,
396
00:21:06.119 --> 00:21:08.000
but it's it's you know, it's let me put it
397
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:11.200
this way, it's not the hub of Orlando. And it's
398
00:21:11.240 --> 00:21:13.359
not something that people would say, oh, we got to
399
00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:15.279
go to Epic because it just opened in Orlando and
400
00:21:15.400 --> 00:21:18.599
let's take let's take an afternoon and go over to
401
00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:21.839
Lego Land. Not gonna happen, yeah, or if it does,
402
00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:24.240
it's very rare, and they're probably if it does happen,
403
00:21:24.279 --> 00:21:26.400
they're on their way to the beach in Tampa, so
404
00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:27.680
they'll stop there on their way over.
405
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:28.599
Well.
406
00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:31.599
Well, anyway, I think it's interesting that they're talking about
407
00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:36.519
the immersive type experiences and investment. Uh, and of course
408
00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:38.759
we've already seen it, and so I think those are
409
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:42.440
good markers. But I think they're gonna this could this
410
00:21:42.480 --> 00:21:45.039
could potentially be another situation where you have some assets
411
00:21:45.079 --> 00:21:48.160
that are just might need to be recycled in some
412
00:21:48.240 --> 00:21:50.839
way because you're gonna get you're gonna get back into
413
00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:53.119
that trap right where it's like they have so many
414
00:21:53.160 --> 00:21:57.079
assets spread throughout the world and not they can't invest
415
00:21:57.079 --> 00:21:59.079
in all them at the same time, and so how
416
00:21:59.079 --> 00:22:02.319
do they how do they rebalance these It's similar to
417
00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:04.400
the Six Flags things sort of where I'm sure that
418
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:06.839
there's there's properties that are not great that they might
419
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:09.680
be able to recycle or do something with in order
420
00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:12.960
to keep the investment to stay competitive in these other places,
421
00:22:13.359 --> 00:22:15.960
because yeah, you're just not I think that a lot
422
00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:17.119
of these markets you just can't.
423
00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:19.200
You have to reinvest to stay competitive.
424
00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:21.279
But well, and it's finding it's this has been a
425
00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:23.400
challenge for as long as there're have been theme parks,
426
00:22:23.559 --> 00:22:27.839
and it's finding that balance between local and tourism base.
427
00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:33.200
So well, we'll see it appears again I say this,
428
00:22:33.359 --> 00:22:37.359
It appears anecdotally that those that are less reliant, at
429
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:40.799
least in this specific lens, those that are less reliant
430
00:22:40.839 --> 00:22:46.119
on tourism, especially international tourism, are doing better than those
431
00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:47.559
that are relying.
432
00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:50.599
On people coming in from other places. Don't know.
433
00:22:51.359 --> 00:22:55.920
So let's move over to Excaret in Mexico.
434
00:22:56.359 --> 00:22:59.279
So this is an interesting one. And just because there's.
435
00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:06.279
Anyway I'll read here from an excerpt from the Yucatan magazine. Here,
436
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:09.880
I'll just read some excerpts. So the Supreme Court has
437
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:13.720
ordered the Excurret group to stop using Maya cultural elements
438
00:23:13.720 --> 00:23:16.119
in its parks, hotels and advertising and for those that
439
00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:19.440
are not familiar, which I was not until recently, But
440
00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:24.799
the Excurrat is a kind of you describe it as
441
00:23:25.039 --> 00:23:27.400
like a theme park compound type of thing where there's
442
00:23:27.759 --> 00:23:31.440
three different theme parks. There's one focused on Maya culture.
443
00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:33.640
There's also one focus on wellness, and then I think
444
00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:36.119
there's one focused on sports and that. So they have
445
00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:38.839
different focuses all the three of them. But then around
446
00:23:38.920 --> 00:23:41.640
them there's also resorts that are connected to each one,
447
00:23:41.960 --> 00:23:44.119
and it's sort of like a compound. But it's the
448
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:47.039
big selling point here is that it's all inclusive. So
449
00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:49.720
you know, you book there and you are paying a
450
00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:54.519
much higher room rate, but that's because your transportation is included,
451
00:23:54.720 --> 00:23:58.640
your meals are included, your entry into the theme parks
452
00:23:58.640 --> 00:23:59.359
are all included.
453
00:23:59.440 --> 00:24:02.279
Like everything is included. So it's this similar to port
454
00:24:02.279 --> 00:24:04.920
Aventura just outside of Barcelona, that's right, Yeah, And.
455
00:24:06.480 --> 00:24:08.920
It's received a lot of recognition for the quality of
456
00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:10.799
what they do and whatnot. And of course one of
457
00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:14.359
their main parks is all centered around this Maya Mayan
458
00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:17.119
culture elements. But the Supreme Court just ordered that they
459
00:24:17.119 --> 00:24:19.559
need to stop using them, and so that could be
460
00:24:20.119 --> 00:24:23.200
a very large problem. And this has been ongoing for
461
00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:24.640
a while since twenty twenty two.
462
00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:25.920
And what had.
463
00:24:25.920 --> 00:24:30.759
Happened was they had gotten a lower court to stay
464
00:24:30.839 --> 00:24:33.279
the order while it was going through court so they
465
00:24:33.279 --> 00:24:34.759
could keep the Mayan culture stuff.
466
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:36.759
But the suprene Court just revoked that.
467
00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:39.279
So they even while this is finishing going through everything,
468
00:24:39.279 --> 00:24:41.559
they have to stop using the references immediately.
469
00:24:41.640 --> 00:24:44.079
So let's see.
470
00:24:44.119 --> 00:24:48.079
It says the council here, the Mayan Committee Council, the
471
00:24:48.319 --> 00:24:51.279
council in the area that represents the mind Culture, accused
472
00:24:51.279 --> 00:24:54.759
the company of cultural appropriation by incorporating sacred traditional elements
473
00:24:54.839 --> 00:24:58.000
into its theme parks and promotional materials without community consent.
474
00:24:58.279 --> 00:25:01.440
Among the disputed symbols are one of the celebrations, the
475
00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:04.559
Maya Ballgame, the Sacred Maya Voyage, and the Dance of
476
00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:07.799
the Owls. And according here from the article, it says
477
00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:11.359
that the main Justice based the court's decision on a
478
00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:15.880
September twenty twenty four constitutional reform that recognizes the autonomy
479
00:25:15.880 --> 00:25:19.039
of indigenous peoples to preserve and protect their cultural heritage,
480
00:25:19.119 --> 00:25:23.359
both material and intangible. It also establishes that indigenous communities
481
00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:28.200
hold collective intellectual property rights in their heritage, I meaning
482
00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:30.720
maya culture is not in the public domain and it
483
00:25:30.799 --> 00:25:36.039
cannot be freely exploited. Of course, typically the Mexican Tourist
484
00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:39.000
Council sent out a statement being like this is going
485
00:25:39.079 --> 00:25:42.480
to cause untold damage to tourism and rah. But ultimately,
486
00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:45.599
I don't know. Ultimately it's like, look, they've ruled that
487
00:25:45.680 --> 00:25:49.960
it's an that maya culture is an IP, and specifically
488
00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:53.440
the stuff they are using, which are like performance they're
489
00:25:53.519 --> 00:25:56.519
using like a ballgame and a sacred voyage and a
490
00:25:56.599 --> 00:25:58.319
dance of the owls like these are not like.
491
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:00.400
Anyway.
492
00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:05.920
Basically, it's I think the court's position is like this.
493
00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:05.400
This is IP.
494
00:26:06.240 --> 00:26:08.720
You are using this IP and you're profiting it off
495
00:26:08.720 --> 00:26:10.519
of to the point where you're making entire theme park
496
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:13.480
centered around it, and it's part of your activities, and
497
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:18.680
you do not have rights to use this IP, so period.
498
00:26:18.799 --> 00:26:23.079
And I don't know. I think that the cultural you know,
499
00:26:23.119 --> 00:26:28.440
the tourism thing, I'm like, that's it's like, I guess
500
00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:30.359
they had to say that kind of statement, but I
501
00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:33.480
feel like it's really lacking. Like what they need to
502
00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:36.160
do is be like, here's a framework that we can
503
00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:39.039
suggest to move forward, some sort of licensing terms that
504
00:26:39.079 --> 00:26:40.960
we would like to come to so that other people
505
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:43.480
can get this this culture, and that we can all
506
00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:46.799
collectively make this a great tour destination to have more
507
00:26:46.799 --> 00:26:48.720
people learn about it. Like that's what they should have said,
508
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:51.920
but instead they just were like, this is terrible. Anyway, Okay,
509
00:26:51.920 --> 00:26:53.240
I'm done, Scott, what do you think?
510
00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:54.839
Well, the I.
511
00:26:54.839 --> 00:26:59.920
Think the impact of this can be short term terror51200:27:01.680 --> 00:27:04.200
because there is not a single there is not a51300:27:04.240 --> 00:27:10.839
single cruise port in Mexico that doesn't have some representation51400:27:11.160 --> 00:27:14.200
of the Mayan culture, either as a photo op, as51500:27:14.240 --> 00:27:18.680
a as a performance. It's just over and over and51600:27:18.720 --> 00:27:24.039
over again. And I'm not sure. I mean, I'm obviously51700:27:24.079 --> 00:27:30.720
not an expert in Mexican law, but it's to me51800:27:30.839 --> 00:27:33.880
that's sort of like saying, well, you can't celebrate Saint51900:27:33.920 --> 00:27:36.880
Patrick's Day because that is something that is owned by52000:27:36.880 --> 00:27:40.160
the Irish and the Catholic Church, and in order to52100:27:40.200 --> 00:27:42.839
do it you have to pay royalties to them. It52200:27:42.960 --> 00:27:46.519
seems suspicious to me based on American law, but I52300:27:46.680 --> 00:27:51.599
don't understand Mexican law. That said, I think cultural appropriation52400:27:51.720 --> 00:27:54.319
is a challenge. I'm just not sure that cultural appropriation52500:27:54.440 --> 00:27:58.359
is something that can be considered an IP. The idea52600:27:58.440 --> 00:28:02.680
here is, you know, like you know, if if I'm52700:28:02.720 --> 00:28:08.039
wearing if I'm wearing a if I'm wearing a shirt52800:28:08.279 --> 00:28:11.480
that says proud to be Polish with a Polish flag52900:28:11.519 --> 00:28:16.839
on it, am I it should Does someone in Poland53000:28:16.839 --> 00:28:18.839
need to make money off of that? That's what this53100:28:18.920 --> 00:28:23.440
sounds like to me, because what's happening is incorrect. Well53200:28:23.440 --> 00:28:25.359
that explained, That explained to me better, because, like you53300:28:25.440 --> 00:28:27.359
just said, they could have come up with an idea53400:28:27.400 --> 00:28:29.480
where they would have paid them for the IP. That's53500:28:29.480 --> 00:28:31.839
what an IP is, You pay for it in order53600:28:31.880 --> 00:28:34.240
to use it. So if this is an IP, explain53700:28:34.279 --> 00:28:34.759
it better to me.53800:28:34.799 --> 00:28:35.440
So I understand.53900:28:35.920 --> 00:28:38.920
Okay, So I'm gonna borrow a little bit from my54000:28:39.799 --> 00:28:44.279
neighbor who actually does something similar where he goes to54100:28:44.319 --> 00:28:47.480
the Philippines and where he studies their cultural dances there54200:28:47.559 --> 00:28:51.720
or whatever. So basically, and in this case, he gets54300:28:51.960 --> 00:28:54.000
he has permission, he does all the persons and everything54400:28:54.000 --> 00:28:55.559
corrected to be able to bring it back here and.54500:28:55.480 --> 00:28:58.240
Permission permission from who persion.54600:28:57.880 --> 00:29:04.039
From from the coldultural council. They're the Philippine Council. So54700:29:04.119 --> 00:29:09.240
basically this is how I see this. So they're Mayan community.54800:29:09.279 --> 00:29:11.920
They're reading through the articles. They have different they have54900:29:12.000 --> 00:29:14.359
multiple councils, but they do have an official council that55000:29:14.440 --> 00:29:19.039
represents the Mayan cultural heritage where they are the runs55100:29:19.039 --> 00:29:22.000
responsible for maintaining the ap. So they're like, this dance55200:29:22.680 --> 00:29:25.319
is a Mayan cultural dance and this is why, and55300:29:25.400 --> 00:29:28.000
here's the exact movements, and here's the exact ways performed,55400:29:28.000 --> 00:29:29.960
and here's what is in everything. So they have like55500:29:29.960 --> 00:29:32.759
an IP book about this dance. And what they're saying55600:29:32.920 --> 00:29:37.440
is you are using this dance in your theme park55700:29:37.480 --> 00:29:38.960
and you are profiting off of it because you are55800:29:39.039 --> 00:29:41.400
using your marketing and you are advertising it, and you55900:29:41.440 --> 00:29:44.200
are not paying for a licensing fee for that or56000:29:44.240 --> 00:29:47.000
have any agreement for us paying, which they do have56100:29:47.079 --> 00:29:48.599
rules around using.56200:29:49.000 --> 00:29:53.759
Yes paying exactly that. So that goes that really supports56300:29:53.759 --> 00:29:56.559
what I was just saying. They need money. They want56400:29:56.599 --> 00:29:59.799
money because if the cultural if the cultural organization's true56500:29:59.799 --> 00:30:02.160
goal is to make certain that the Mayan culture continues56600:30:02.200 --> 00:30:04.440
to be seen by more and more people. By removing56700:30:04.480 --> 00:30:07.559
it from escrit and then in turn, every single theme park, everything,56800:30:07.599 --> 00:30:12.640
every single cruise port in Mexico, their culture will be56900:30:12.880 --> 00:30:13.640
less visible.57000:30:14.920 --> 00:30:16.839
And that's not their goal.57100:30:16.920 --> 00:30:19.559
I mean, it's understand that's what the Supreme Court is57200:30:19.559 --> 00:30:20.279
saying is an IPA.57300:30:20.519 --> 00:30:22.400
I think I kind of agree with with that. So57400:30:22.440 --> 00:30:23.319
that's what I'm saying.57500:30:23.680 --> 00:30:28.039
If they want money, right, they want money, That's exactly57600:30:28.039 --> 00:30:28.519
what I'm saying.57700:30:28.559 --> 00:30:30.400
So we're saying exactly the same thing.57800:30:30.880 --> 00:30:33.920
The Cultural Council even the really statement and was like,57900:30:34.480 --> 00:30:37.160
we're willing to talk about this, you're you know, we're58000:30:37.200 --> 00:30:38.799
willing to work with you to be able to make58100:30:38.839 --> 00:30:40.559
sure this is represented properly.58200:30:40.720 --> 00:30:41.400
I just want to make sure.58300:30:41.440 --> 00:30:42.720
I just want to make sure that we're not framing58400:30:42.720 --> 00:30:47.039
this completely as cultural appropriation, because quite honestly, it's not.58500:30:48.160 --> 00:30:54.079
This is somebody who has somehow assigned themselves to be58600:30:54.279 --> 00:30:59.640
the keeper of the Mayan culture for thousands up one58700:30:59.640 --> 00:31:02.559
thousands of years and claiming it is an ip.58800:31:04.359 --> 00:31:06.880
I think it's more sure. I mean, I guess if58900:31:06.880 --> 00:31:07.839
that helps with the framing.59000:31:07.880 --> 00:31:11.240
But now they want money for it.59100:31:11.759 --> 00:31:14.200
I guess it's like it's not just the money, but59200:31:14.240 --> 00:31:16.880
they also want to make sure that it's represented properly.59300:31:17.240 --> 00:31:20.440
And that's similar to what my neighbor with the Philippines.59400:31:20.759 --> 00:31:24.200
They don't charge him, but they do make sure that59500:31:24.240 --> 00:31:27.400
the way he's doing it is appropriate, and that's why59600:31:27.519 --> 00:31:29.880
they require him to go and learn there and to59700:31:29.960 --> 00:31:32.319
prove that he is representing it properly, and then to59800:31:32.359 --> 00:31:35.920
document the show so that there's like a proper documentation59900:31:35.960 --> 00:31:39.759
of it. And I think in this case, we don't60000:31:39.799 --> 00:31:41.880
know how much they're asking for, so it could be60100:31:42.039 --> 00:31:44.960
like ten dollars and in which case it would be60200:31:45.039 --> 00:31:46.839
ridiculous that xcrat is not doing it. So I think60300:31:46.880 --> 00:31:49.559
that's more where we're lacking knowledge is how much are60400:31:49.559 --> 00:31:51.920
they really asking for? What are they really doing there?60500:31:52.240 --> 00:31:55.119
You know what what what is the degree of damage?60600:31:55.160 --> 00:31:59.279
Which we don't know. But I think it's it's like60700:31:59.480 --> 00:32:01.400
unfair to it's just about money. I think it's like60800:32:01.920 --> 00:32:04.759
that they've developed like this is how this dance is done,60900:32:04.759 --> 00:32:06.480
and this is how it needs to be followed, just61000:32:06.480 --> 00:32:09.799
like any IP, and you're like not working with us61100:32:09.799 --> 00:32:12.079
to make sure that you're doing this properly, and we61200:32:12.079 --> 00:32:14.200
don't know how much they're going to charge, So maybe61300:32:14.559 --> 00:32:15.400
maybe there's that charge.61400:32:15.440 --> 00:32:16.920
Who was ten dollars, it would not have gone to61500:32:16.960 --> 00:32:21.319
the Supreme Court. Well, you know, here's the thing I am.61600:32:21.480 --> 00:32:24.599
I am. I am opposed to cultural appropriation.61700:32:24.680 --> 00:32:26.240
In fact, anytime I do anything, I'll give you a61800:32:26.240 --> 00:32:28.960
perfect example, anytime I've done anything that is Day of61900:32:28.960 --> 00:32:31.279
the Dead, I go to the local Mexican Consulate to62000:32:31.319 --> 00:32:34.039
get their blessing to make certain that we are representing62100:32:34.079 --> 00:32:34.680
it appropriately.62200:32:34.720 --> 00:32:35.920
But they're not asking for money.62300:32:36.519 --> 00:32:38.359
They're not asking for money too, They're not asking for62400:32:38.400 --> 00:32:43.359
money to be the gatekeepers of their culture. And that's62500:32:43.559 --> 00:32:45.240
that's where I think this is a slippery slope, and62600:32:45.279 --> 00:32:47.640
I think there is something a little bit suspicious about it.62700:32:48.720 --> 00:32:50.920
We'll see how it pans out. If they go back62800:32:50.920 --> 00:32:53.759
to Escaret and say, you know, as long as we62900:32:53.839 --> 00:32:56.680
have final say on what the end product looks like,63000:32:57.119 --> 00:32:59.000
then we'll be fine with it. But I doubt that63100:32:59.400 --> 00:33:01.960
this is the Supreme Court. If that was indeed the intent,63200:33:02.400 --> 00:33:05.480
we'll see. We'll keep watching it. Unfortunately, we won't keep63300:33:05.480 --> 00:33:07.119
watching it this week because we're way over time.63400:33:07.200 --> 00:33:09.519
So that's the end.63500:33:09.680 --> 00:33:11.359
Yes, that's the end of green Tag Theme Park in63600:33:11.400 --> 00:33:15.319
thirty on behalf of Philip Bernandez with Gantum Lighting and63700:33:15.319 --> 00:33:18.599
Control and myself Scott Swins with Scott Swins and Creative Development.63800:33:18.640 --> 00:33:22.720
Can't remember the name of my own company your spin Espresso, Yes,63900:33:22.839 --> 00:33:23.680
Spinach Espresso.64000:33:24.200 --> 00:33:26.480
We will see you next week by
