Is Six Flags Preparing to Sell More Parks? What the Filings Suggest

Philip Hernandez (00:00.545)
Okay, from our studios in Tampa and Los Angeles, this is green tagged theme park and 30. I'm Philip from Ganton lighting and controls. And I'm joined by my cohost, Scott Swenson of Scott Swenson, creative development on green tag. We talk about six flags a lot. mean, we look at the top news each week and we try and explain why it matters to business professionals. We also have been talking about six slides a lot because it is the, you know, the biggest chain right now. And there's a lot going on and we're going to.

follow up last week's discussion with some updates that happened since we recorded last week. And thank you everyone in the comments for pointing out what we missed to talk about, but it's because the news came out as soon as we finished recording. So here we are, we're back.

Scott Swenson (00:39.628)
Yeah, haven't, we really didn't miss it because when we recording it hadn't happened yet. I really wish, trust me, I wish, Philip and I were just talking about this before we started recording. I wish that our entire day could be spent doing nothing but talking to each other and talking to you as well. Unfortunately, that doesn't always happen. And well, no, it doesn't happen at all because we have to both earn livings. So there's that. But

Philip Hernandez (00:43.957)
That's true. That's true. That's true.

Scott Swenson (01:07.062)
Yeah, so, but we do appreciate the fact that you guys were able to say, yes, but what about this? What about this? What about this? And now it's time for us to address the what about this.

Philip Hernandez (01:15.935)
Yes, yes. And I'm gonna start off with just a little clarity based off of the feedback that we got off last week's episode. just wanna, I think there was, I wanna clarify one thing from last week, which is that the rolling debt forward is a standard practice for companies of the size of six slags, right? We weren't really talking about that that is unusual. I think what I was trying to get across is that the point is that it's still an opportunity cost only because they are,

rolling it forward at a higher amount, right? So they bought certainty, right? But it comes at a higher fixed cost, which tightens their margin. So it's just a higher fixed cost, that's it. So I wasn't, so a lot of people that were saying that this was unusual or this that or the way I had phrased it, I think was incorrect in that it is a thing. This happens all the time. Companies always have debt, especially corporations of size, and they're not paying down.

any of the principal, right? They're just like paying the interest and then they just roll it at some point. But when you roll it at a time like this, you're just paying more because of the difference in interest. So just clarify.

Scott Swenson (02:20.258)
Hey, there are people out there who just pay the minimum payment on their credit card too. So basically what you're doing, and trust me, I know this for a fact, what you're basically just doing is screwing yourself for the future. yeah, but it is a common practice. You are absolutely right, Philip. It is a common practice. I thought we kind of alluded to that, but may not have stated it clearly in the previous episode, but it is not a common practice for a company that can pay off its debt.

Philip Hernandez (02:23.679)
Yes.

Scott Swenson (02:50.122)
So it is, although it is common practice, it still does not, it still is, is reflective of the state of things at Six Flags.

Philip Hernandez (02:59.252)
Yep. Yep. And that relates directly to kind of what we are going to talk about today, which is something a lot of people brought up again last week, but basically there have been trademark applications that have been filed that may point to Six Flags looking to offload a lot of its water parks. And the thrust of it is that there is a company called Innovative Attraction Management and they have, they came on the scene a few years ago, apparently.

and they have been purchasing, up water parks. So they have, enchanted forest water, safari waters edge in and old forge camp and resort. They also have, digger land. And so basically it's a new ish company and they have a lot of water parks. They've been purchasing them up and the, the news that got put everywhere, including mainstream media was that there was. Trademark applications that were filed and the names are.

the applicant was named enchanted parks holding and they filed for enchanted parks camping resort enchanted parks Galveston enchanted parks great escape lodge Michigan adventure oceans of fun St. Louis far Safari waters and then and you know theme park insider did a good job pointing out some of this just laying everything out of the facts basically of like here here's the enchanted parks holding and they took these trademark applications what

what I did, is where we're gonna get into a little bit of maybe not conjecture, but pointing things out is if you look at Enchanted Parks Holdings, it traces back to that company I mentioned, Innovative Attraction Management, right? And it's a, they have an office in Orlando, and you can find news articles from several years ago where they've been purchasing up water parks as clearly. And so I think clearly, it seems to me, pointing these two things together, that it is clearly as a separate entity from Six Flags, and it looks like that

It is trying to take its existing assets and it is potentially going to acquire water park, some of the water parks from Six Flags to consolidate them under a single Enchanted Parks brand. And it is a little interesting because the oceans of fun thing might suggest it looks like they're looking at splitting up that property into the water park and non-water park and kind of doing that. So that's kind of what I believe is going on. And

Philip Hernandez (05:22.355)
It seems like a lot of our commenters agree with that because we have quite a few comments. I think that kind of stalled everything out. I Robert Polk in 9910 said he mentioned this in the comments for last week's episode about this. And he also added that more success parks will be sold off this year and the leases could be terminated for Darien Lake Frontier City and LeBron. They were definitely slimming down their portfolio to pay down debt. I.E. what we just talked about and make more profit than major parks. And that was kind of also

commented on by grobble8954 who comments on every one of our videos. Thank you very much. And every comment is very insightful. But he also did reinforce that they were always going to sell the parks from day one and kind of spoke about how even in the plan, the presentation they gave, they didn't say it, but they did outline how there were 12 parks that only had 10 % of the revenue and kind of making like, you know, investor speak for like there are expendable properties.

So it seems like some of our big commenters along with some of the other analysts out there think that they're targeting 15 to 18 parks total. And they're gonna try and offload some of these assets again to be used to help finance some of this debt. Yeah, thank you for the comment.

Scott Swenson (06:40.352)
Yeah, sounds like it. So let me just let me just play devil's advocate just for the sake of conversation. Yes, they have registered for all of these names. But is there is there any other possibility other than six flags for just registering for you? Because I mean, they're just there's registered. What what if and as I say it, I realize this is probably not true.

Philip Hernandez (06:49.515)
Mm-hmm.

Scott Swenson (07:07.308)
But what if they decide they're going up against some of the competition that is currently Six Flags? is there any opportunity to even pass conjecture that something could be happening here other than Six Flags?

Philip Hernandez (07:23.795)
I don't know. mean, I think, yeah.

Scott Swenson (07:26.742)
I can't think of anything. That's why I'm throwing, that's why I'm floating it out there. Cause I can't think of anything. This, seems to be, you know, you've, you've put together all the pieces here beautifully, Phillip. And it seems to make sense to me that this is exactly what's going to happen. it is, it is interesting because with some of the flags parks, the water parks are actually built into the property. I think worlds of fun is one of them. that's actually built into the property. So to have it as a separate entity.

Philip Hernandez (07:47.435)
That's right. That's right. That's right.

Scott Swenson (07:55.586)
but on the same footprint seems odd. Like I think of Six Flags Great America, their water park is literally almost surrounded, well, it's surrounded on three sides by the rest of the park. So I'm just curious to see if that would ever play into the situation.

Philip Hernandez (08:13.739)
Yeah. I think the biggest thing here is like, this is probably a plan. I think it's clear there's a plan. Now the question is like, it's still, in my mind, it's still pretty far from like the planning to like the execution because they could just be filing these as a matter of course to prepare a plan because where are they gonna get the money and how much are they gonna pay and where's the financing? I mean, this is a new...

company and they've been purchasing stuff regular, like a lot of parks like in a short amount of time. So where's their money coming from? How are they gonna finance this? All these details. So like, I think that would be the biggest thing is like, this could just be, they have the idea, they're gonna, they got the trademark as a matter of course to prepare for it. And they're gonna go to Six Flags and they're maybe gonna suggest it. And then they could just be like, no.

It's not enough, or you're not offering enough, or you don't have the money, or they can't secure it. I there's, I think a lot of ways this could still fall through. So I think it's possible that it might be a plan that somebody has, but that doesn't make it necessarily a foregone conclusion.

Scott Swenson (09:21.9)
Well, is there any possibility, and I'm putting this in the form of a question because I honestly don't understand 100 % how this works, but I do think back to when I get bored and I just go and randomly buy IRLs, or I'm sorry, I buy domain names. I just buy domain names when I'm And because of the possibility that, somebody might want this someday, and then somebody might sell it someday. Could this be IAMs?

business model of saying, I'm going to set this up. I'm going to tee everything up for somebody with a ton of money to come in and help, quote unquote, help Six Flags out. This could just be a really clever entrepreneur that is looking at the possibility of what could happen in the future. The first person that bought

you know, think of any major company that has come around in the last few years, if they saw it ahead of time and purchased the domain name, they then could sell it back to the company. If you could trademark the name of a park that you know somebody is going to want and then package them all together under Enchantment Park's holdings, you just sell Enchantment Park's holdings and part of their holdings is the TM's for the trademarks for all of these parks, knowing full well that Six Flags is going to offer them up for sale.

Is it possible? Is it possible that this is just a clever entrepreneur who can see the handwriting on the wall?

Philip Hernandez (10:51.037)
I look forward to seeing what comment our commenters will say about all of that because I don't, I don't know. I'm not sure there is an answer to that. think the only thing I think that would point in the opposite direction of that is just that they have purchased other assets. Like they have other active water parks, right? That they are managing currently. So they are an operation, but to your point, maybe the real thing they're trying to sell is an idea of a massive water park chain.

Scott Swenson (11:09.911)
Mm-hmm.

Scott Swenson (11:18.894)
Correct. Correct.

Philip Hernandez (11:19.049)
And so they're really just trying to maneuver and then sell an investor on it, you know, and then just run away. know, this kind of like the...

Scott Swenson (11:28.386)
Well, and my question is, aren't the parks owned by IAM not Enchanted Parks Holding?

Philip Hernandez (11:34.924)
That's right. Yeah, so I think one way to look at this is that they are planning, they, like the IAM is planning to do like a rebrand of all of these stuff. Like they only have Enchanted Forest Water Safari, which isn't Enchanted Parks, but like, I think you could see your narrative, right? Or maybe they're gonna take what you're suggesting to an investor and say, we have this grand plan of Enchanted Parks and here's everything that's ready and.

Scott Swenson (12:00.014)
Correct.

Philip Hernandez (12:02.177)
If you get your money, we'll be able to get whatever.

Scott Swenson (12:05.964)
Yeah, well, I mean, they've got they've got Enchanted Parks, Waters Edge in and they own Waters Edge in. it to me. To me, it just opens up a bunch of possibilities for them. It's like, are they going to be the ones to run it or are they going to go to a major investor and say, look, I've lined this all up for you and for a small brokerage fee, we will sell you Enchanted Parks Holdings for a certain amount of money. And with that comes

Philip Hernandez (12:10.559)
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Philip Hernandez (12:19.637)
Yeah. Yeah.

Scott Swenson (12:35.85)
all of these names and we'll include the three parks that we own and then you're set up to purchase everything from Six Flags. I don't know. It's interesting to see how it's all gonna pan out. Listeners, please comment because I could be talking on my butt right now. I really don't know. But I think it is, I'm always the one to look at it and go, let's follow the money. And since there's no money here yet, really, other than investing for the trademarks,

Philip Hernandez (12:58.059)
That's right. Well, yeah, that's right. That's right. That's right.

Scott Swenson (13:03.316)
it's really hard to say, yeah, they're gonna, they're just gonna buy out all Six Flags. Are they gonna do it or are they setting it up to make it easier for somebody else to do it so they become the broker?

Philip Hernandez (13:12.353)
Yeah, and I think our overall point is back to following the money too, that it does, again, all the indicators do show like separate from this and channel part things. Indicators do show as our very smart commenters have pointed out that like Six Flags is looking to offload assets, underperforming assets for whatever reason that they can't make it work or whatever, they are looking to do that. And then we also know based off of last week's episode that they have a lot of debt and that the refinancing is costing them more, right?

Cashflow is a problem, it's a problem for everybody, but especially here. And that's separate, right, from the Enchanted Parks thing. So I think that...

Scott Swenson (13:48.674)
But my point is anybody who could look at those two points and recognize the exact same thing that we've recognized is that they're hurting, they're financially, they have to eliminate debt and they've got some underperforming water parks. I think both of those statements are pretty factual. That could be just enough for a really clever entrepreneur to put stuff together even if they don't have the funding for it.

Philip Hernandez (13:54.261)
That's right.

Philip Hernandez (14:00.469)
Yep. Yep. Yep.

Yep.

Philip Hernandez (14:14.081)
Yep, I agree. Yep. And I think yeah, and I do also like the point of our both these commenters here that are kind of pointing that basically, because I had forgotten about the the lease parts to write that because six flags kind of operate some stuff that is lease and whatever. if they get rid of those, and they get rid of the water parks, and they kind of consolidate the lowest performing bottom 12, then they'll be sitting at six slides will be sitting at 15 to 18, which I think

is a lot more manageable. And then they can take the cash and work on the renovations and bring the parks in the best markets like knots like more make them more competitive. So it has the highest growth potential. So I think that all of that is a valid strategy. But Scott and I were talking about this also like, it's like, that's all about strategy. And maybe that's what they were trying to say. But it's also something you can't really say like, like you can't go, you know, into an investor meeting or something that's going to be shared publicly and say, our plan is to

buy all this and merge all these and then get rid of half of them because then you're freaking out the staff, right? Then it's like mass panic. It's like, we're cutting half the chain and then it's like mass panic, but we'll see.

Scott Swenson (15:15.757)
Mm-hmm.

Scott Swenson (15:25.868)
Yeah, the first thing you say after a major merger is, we've so value our employees and half of you aren't going to be our employees anymore. You know, that's the last thing you want to say. It makes investors nervous. The public perception of the parks just kind of goes into the dumper. And the people working in the parks either flee like rats from a sinking ship or

Philip Hernandez (15:29.482)
Yeah.

Scott Swenson (15:54.614)
just coast until they get kicked out. I mean, is the same reason that in most restaurant chains, don't tell the employees of the individual restaurant that they're closing their location until they close their location. Because they know that the staff is just going to either quit, they're going to either flee, or they're going to screw them up somehow. Because, you know, they...

Philip Hernandez (15:56.17)
Yep, that's right.

Scott Swenson (16:21.642)
In many cases with frontline restaurant people, that is not their career choice. There are many waiters and waitresses who have become careers, but for the vast majority, it's not. So that's why there have been stories, not stories, I know this to be true. There have been times where people who work in restaurants will show up and there's chains on the door. It says to pick up your final paycheck, contact so and so. So it's...

It's interesting because there's that balance. You got to figure out when can we flip the switch and by doing some, you know, some clever piecing together of the information that's out there, it looks like that switch could be flipped, whether it is by IAM or by somebody that IAM finds to sell their new holdings company to. So who knows?

Philip Hernandez (17:09.909)
Mm-hmm. Yep. Yep. Okay. Let's move on. We have a few other interesting stories to get to. One, I just wanted to point out the Delta, latest earnings from Delta came out. And I always think looking at airline earnings is interesting just because it is adjacent to what we do. know, I mean, I think there's a lot of parks that aren't.

don't rely on air travel, but I still think it's interesting to look at the macro trends there. And the most interesting part to me of the Delta, latest Delta earnings is it was a good quarter and all that stuff was fine. But the main thing that was interesting, two things, one, main cabin sales were down 7%. The growth of first class grew by 9%, which I said it was a good quarter. So those, what that did was basically for the first time in Delta's history, the premium cabin sales are larger than the main cabin sales. And I think,

Again, it goes back to what we're talking about, about the kind of whatever you're going to call it, the K shaped thing or the whatever. But essentially, it's like, it is. It's like that if if you have enough money, if you're in the percentage where you have enough money, especially for air travel and go vacation or whatever, then you're just going to you're just paying for first class. You're not waiting for upgrades or like me, I'm sitting there being like, am I going to get upgraded? And it's like, no, you're not getting upgraded because people are just buying first class. doesn't matter how much it costs. They're just buying whatever they want to make the

the travel experience have less friction. And then on the flip side, you are seeing the decline in the main cabin sales. You're seeing decline in even the cheaper seats, right? So it's interesting because it does map to a big major theme that we've been talking about and thinking about how your attraction can capitalize on that, at least making sure that you have frictionless experiences available for that demographic.

Scott Swenson (18:50.829)
Mm-hmm.

Scott Swenson (19:01.378)
because people are willing to pay for them. Yeah, because they're willing to pay for them. you know, we've seen this and now we've seen this, we've seen this tank. We've seen this go the opposite way because they weren't smart. They were greedy and they didn't know how to market. But I'm talking about, you know, I'm talking about the whole space debacle at Disney. Star Cruiser, it's like, it's like, dear.

Philip Hernandez (19:02.901)
because they're willing to pay for it.

Philip Hernandez (19:25.461)
Yeah, Star Cruiser. Yeah. Yeah.

That was crazy. I'm still, I mean, I guess I'm just poor because like even now I'm still like, that was so expensive. And I don't, I don't know. mean, but, I don't know a lot. And you know, it's funny, cause when we talked about this, our commenters said the same thing where they're like, I don't know how people are affording this. And think the answer we talked about last time was the answer is just death. mean, it's just, they're just Americans have had the highest debt they've had in, in a very long time. So yeah.

Scott Swenson (19:30.839)
and then.

Scott Swenson (19:48.578)
Mm-hmm.

Scott Swenson (19:56.394)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, again, it's a pendulum thing. It's a pendulum thing. It's coming back. again, have those frictionless options for people who are willing to pay for them, and you can put money in your pocket. I also think with the airlines, part of the reason that the main cabin is dropping is because the...

the quality of service in main cabin of most airlines is going down, and it is to save money, and so therefore people are like, I don't want to deal with that crap. I'm gonna... I can afford it. I'm just gonna go ahead and do the the prime. I'm gonna go ahead and do the first class. So, again, that will right-size itself eventually as well, but let's be honest, there was a time in our history where air travel was only for the rich.

Philip Hernandez (20:15.295)
It's awful.

Scott Swenson (20:43.104)
It wasn't like a bus to get you from A to B. What people of moderate means used to get from point A to B was a bus. So, you know, or a train, you those were cheaper. Those were more cost-effective options. And air travel was only for the wealthy. So...

Philip Hernandez (20:54.465)
You

Philip Hernandez (20:58.945)
Yeah.

Scott Swenson (21:06.69)
Are we gonna go back to that? Who knows. But I think it's gonna right size itself, but it is interesting that at this point in time in our history, it's important to recognize that there are people out there who are willing to spend extra bucks to make their life easier.

Philip Hernandez (21:18.869)
Yep. Okay. next up, we are going to talk a little bit about the fan fest nights event, which is coming back to Universal Studios Hollywood. So we talked about this a lot because, a lot when last year, so this, this will be year two of the event and we've been covering it since it was announced. And I think our, our main thesis here is that Universal is looking for its new Halloween horror nights. Like what if

You could take the enormously successful Halloween Horror Nights and you could just do two of them and you could do one in the spring and you could do one in the fall. And that wouldn't that just be great? and it seems, so it seems like that that's our thesis to be clear of, this experiment that Universal Studios Hollywood is running. And last year, you know, I visited the event last year and we talked about it on the show a lot. And the main experience last year was the back to the future experience, which was sort of like a.

massive LARPing experience where you would take the little tram down to the back lot where you would walk around the set from the movie and there would be a one hour immersive story just unfolding around you. And it would just kind of repeat every hour. So it's like restart, but you could just talk to any characters and follow them around and do whatever, blah, blah, blah. It's a big immersive LARPing experience. They also had walkthrough experiences based off of Star Trek and Dungeons and Dragons. And they had a one piece meetup and whatever.

We wrote, I wrote a big article about all that so you can look at that later. But anyway, the point is, they're bringing it back this year. FanFest nights is coming back this year. They have not announced anything except for one experience. That experience is a Scooby-Doo and Universal Monsters mashup. And it looks like that experience is gonna be replacing the Back to the Future experience. I'm gonna read now from Universal. They said,

This all new immersive walkthrough adventure is designed to give guests a sensation of stepping into a live action mystery with the Scooby Doo gang and the Universal Monsters. Guests will travel to the destination via the studio tram where they will have the chance to walk along a movie studio back lot with Scooby Doo himself and his pals, Daphne, Velma and Shaggy. The exciting escapade will challenge them to solve a mystery involving the most legendary Universal Monsters in cinematic history, including...

Philip Hernandez (23:33.794)
Frankenstein, Dracula, Brighton, Frankenstein, and Wolfman as they navigate portions of Universal's world famous outdoor film sets from the cobblestone streets of Little Europe, the iconic court of miracles, the original filming locations for the historic Universal monster films Frankenstein and the Wolfman. So again, they did not officially say it, but it does sound like they're just replacing the back to the future with this. And as Scott said last time, the main thing they were doing is utilizing their assets. And it seems like they're still doing that because

The main sell here is that you can be on these sets.

Scott Swenson (24:07.19)
Yeah, that's, I mean, that's with their lead marketing, that's what they're saying. What they're really selling is, yes, Scooby-Doo, fun, great, something that will get your attention. But the real meat and potatoes is you get to walk around these movie sets that have not only history, but also are great locations to help tell stories and create those mystery moments. Mystery moments. Yeah, this is...

Philip Hernandez (24:29.5)
Mystery mo-

Scott Swenson (24:33.92)
Again, I think this is super smart. also ties back to what we've said over and over again is that more and more audiences are not looking for things to look at, they're looking for things to do. And this sounds as though it is immersive in the way I define immersive so that the guests actions either impact or appear to impact.

Philip Hernandez (24:36.373)
I think it's going to.

Scott Swenson (24:56.428)
the outcome and you know if they if they come back and say there are multiple endings each one ends with a different with a different universal monster universal classic monster i will be jumping up and down and i may fly to california just to do this because i think it would be super fun

Philip Hernandez (25:05.771)
Monster, yeah.

Scott Swenson (25:14.88)
So again, it reinforces what we've been saying about the industry and what we thought was really cool. And now big parks are kind of putting that into play and making it happen. also think FanFest Nights is not only going to be their horror nights too, but also I think it's some of the competition for Netflix House. I think it is a way for one of the major entertainment providers

within the attractions industry to help fight the flight that may happen with Netflix house with the short term experiences and things that will constantly be changing because Fanfest nights can obviously change. We also talked a little bit before the show when we were saying that this could also be utilized to reinvigorate or help drive guests to

the Universal Monsters experience or the horror experience in Vegas. It's not going to drive them to epic, I don't think, because it's kind of across the country, but I could definitely see it being a way to reinvigorate the Vegas experience.

Philip Hernandez (26:15.265)
That's exactly.

Philip Hernandez (26:28.756)
Yeah, so.

That's right. So on that, think last year, the internet writ large, everyone on the internet, including people at Universal, eviscerated me for my opinion that the, basically that while I thought the Back to the Future experience was something that you, it was literally a once in a lifetime experience. My argument was that it was too niche. Like,

if you're gonna make this the cornerstone of your thing that's supposed to replace the revenue for Halloween Horror Nights, then it's a, if you, and I made this whole chart, remember, where I was like, here's how we can calculate how much fandom locally, I did all this research, and I kind of presented that the way that they programmed the event was the opposite of the way they should have. Like, I'm not saying they shouldn't have had Back to the Future, but it's like the budget should have gone more into the popular fandoms that they could bring people into. That was kind of my thesis, right? And the internet eviscerated me.

Scott Swenson (27:06.37)
Mm-hmm.

Philip Hernandez (27:25.387)
for that, everyone all over. still get hate mail for it. Now, I think this one, to Scott's point that he just said, this could potentially reverse that in a way, right? Because this at least makes more business sense, right? So if they are doubling down into the horror thing to push people over to the Universal Monsters Unleashed or whatever, their whole thing is they have to a lot of horror investment right now. They're investing a lot in horror.

Scott Swenson (27:49.198)
Thanks

Philip Hernandez (27:54.946)
you know, nationwide. that would at least make more sense from that lens. I think the only counter argument then would be, are they leaning too much into horror when they could be expanding into other markets? Who knows, right? Because the whole thing is Halloween Horror Nights is their most successful event. So if people are willing to come for a horror based thing and you can still capture a percentage of that market, that would really help subsidize the event, you know, but is it then where they're becoming

Scott Swenson (27:58.206)
for airlines, I think they're really talented.

Philip Hernandez (28:23.467)
to one dimensional, I have no idea, I'm just saying.

Scott Swenson (28:26.287)
Well, and the other thing they have to consider is

We all think that that Universal owns the rights to everything that they do and they don't. One of the things they do own the rights to are Universal Classic Monsters. So right off the bat, anytime they do something Universal Classic Monsters, it saves them money.

Now, yes, the arguments will be made that they pay out of one pocket to put into another. The arguments will be made that it comes out of, you know, it comes out of universal parks and goes into universal films or what? I don't know. I don't know how all that works. But ultimately, the company is paying itself. So it's sort of like taking the money out of your right pocket and putting it in your left pocket. So I think that's part of the reason. Not only have they had great success with horror, not only do they continue to have great success with horror,

But it's also something that when they use their classic monsters like Epic Universe, they don't have to pay royalties, which means they can invest so much more into the product itself. And people will yell at me and say, well, those royalties, that can't be that much. You would be surprised.

Philip Hernandez (29:25.525)
Yep. That's right.

Philip Hernandez (29:35.381)
Yes, well, especially for smaller, young, young seasonal events like this, right? Where they don't have the budget of hollyhollies. We know they don't. so it's a, so I don't know. mean, I think you could look at this and say they might be correcting everything that I had a problem with from last year, but I guess we'll see. We'll see. I don't know. We'll see. think, and hopefully we'll see you on our Patreon show.

Scott Swenson (29:58.232)
Who knows? That's right, because our Patreon show, we're going to go record that right now. And we've got some we got some stuff to talk about. And one of my favorite topics, shopping. So we'll be talking about that on our Patreon show, which is green tagged unhinged. But unfortunately for this show, we're done. So on behalf of Philip Hernandez with Gandom Lighting and myself, Scott Swenson with Green with I forgot what I was with with Scott Swenson Creative Development. This is Green Tag Theme Park in 30. And we will see you next week.