HHN’s Festival Future: Crowds, Comfort, and Casual Fans

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Okay from our studios this week in Orlando and Tampa

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were both in Florida. Still this is Green Tag Theme

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Park and thirty. I'm Philip. He is Scott Swinson, a

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Scott Swinson career development On Green Tad. We look at

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the top news each week and discuss why it matters

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to business professionals in the theme park space. And this

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week it was the opening of the largest Halloween event

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in the world, Halloween horn Nights in Orlando, and we're

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going to talk about it because I visited and Scott

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did not, But you're pretty much part of the course.

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Yeah, that's okay, that's okay, the way.

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It goes with horror nights, you.

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Know, Yes, it is a lot which we will talk about.

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I feel like there's some really important trends that we're

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seeing kind of manifest in the Halloween Horn Nights evolution

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this year. So let's start off.

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This year.

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They brought back the Premium Screen Night, which we talked

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about previously. Basically, what they do with premi Screen Night

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is they sell tickets to their dress rehearsal. That's kind

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of what it is, and so we talked about it

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last year. Last year was the first year. We talked

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about last year why it actually is a really good

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idea because if you can get guests to pay to

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subsidize your dress rehearsal, like it's it's win on every dimension.

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Because they get real guests to practice on you get

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to subsidize the cost of having them dress rehearsal. I mean,

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it's a great It is great. And then they tested

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the food out last year. So this year the event

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sold out, which I think they're gonna have to play

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with this because first of all, I'm shocked it sold

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out because it was three hundred and seventy five dollars

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a ticket and it sold out and the lines were

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not short, and I think that was the biggest problem

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is that it's supposed to be a limited capacity event,

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so that if you're paying that amount, which is a

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little bit more than you would pay for express, so

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it's a little bit more than you would do for that.

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But the lines ended up being thirty to sixty minutes

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per house, which means that quite a few people did

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not finish everything at the event because there's also lines

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for food, and then there wasn't enough janitorial staff, so

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there was just like stacks of trash anywhere you could

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put trash.

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Well, because they probably didn't book janitorial staff for the

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quote unquote dress rehearsal.

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Yeah, yeah, that's yeah. So it was it was interesting.

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I think that this, Uh, I think that the event

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clearly still works. I think it's just it's just the

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issue of like you just said, like, you know, basically,

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how do you how do you manage the capacity for

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this type of an event?

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And I don't know.

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I think with the price point though, three hundred and

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seventy five dollars, like they should be able to lower

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it significantly, at least more than than you would expect

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for a you know, for thirty to sixty minutes. Is

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I mean, I mean you basically I think what I've

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read a lot of the feedback online and then I

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went so I had my own experience. But essentially it

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is more expensive than you would have paid for Express,

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but you would have gotten lower lines with it Express.

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And I think that that's a problem they're going to

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have to rectify.

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But I think it's just a capacity thing, right, Scott,

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I mean, just adjust the capacity.

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Well, it's just just if you're selling out at a

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price point and the capacity is too high, lower the capacity,

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raise the price. Yeah, I mean, it's it's business one

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o one. It's supply and demand. So if you want

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to if you want to make it, if you want

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to continue the fact that you are selling what is

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believed to be an exclusive experience, that will make it

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so you don't have to wait and cuse as long

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or you don't have to, then then raise the price,

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you know, I mean obviously there's no or there's very

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little price aversion. They're just you know, they're buying the

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tickets at you know, three hundred plus, take it, take

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it to four fifty, and take another and then do

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the math, you know, and figure out how you can

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if you do that, look at your capacity, reduce it

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so that you still make the exact same amount of

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money when you sell out. And notice I didn't say

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if I said when. Plus, there's enough people that with

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horror nights, it's not even just I want to be there.

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I want to be there with short lines, with many,

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many people, And I would guess at the vast majority

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of people who are there, they just want to be

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there first. So yeah, it's like I want to see

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it first.

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If you were.

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If you were a park, or you were looking at

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a advising somebody else on trying to do an event

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like this, like, how would you format it? Because I

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think part of the problem is that it is maybe

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part of the problem.

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I don't know.

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I mean honestly, like we hear there's so much about

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the spending power in the economy and all this. I'm

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just like, I was actually shocked that it sold out

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at that price point. But then I think it's what

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we talked about a little bit with the Disney effect,

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you know of kind of like, well, it's the brand

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is so strong and the fan base is so strong

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that they're able to push it. But then that creates

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I think this illusion where like you can't really I'm

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not sure it's gonna work for other locations or for

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other people. So how so if you were if a

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smaller operate, somebody listening, like a smaller operator was like, oh,

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I could do it, Like, I mean, how would you can?

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Because I think I would tell them it's gonna have

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to be a much different price, packaging or different experience

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or something, because I'm not sure I think that the

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I think that the horn Nit's brand is doing heavy

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lifting in this thing.

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Well, they're also I think an anomaly. I mean, yes,

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as you the way you started this out is like,

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you know, the biggest, grandest, most amazing haunted attraction in

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the world, and it's it's good. But there are people

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who believe that it is the biggest, most amazing haunted

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attraction in the world, so they're gonna it's it's a

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strange anomaly. There are people who have drank so much

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of the kool aid for Halloween Hornites that they will

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spend it obviously, and it's you know, it just it

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just ells. I just sells, you know, sold out. But

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for for smaller for smaller attractions that don't quite have

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the the clout or the history of of Halloween Horonites,

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and a couple of things that you know, we played

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around with at Bush that I think still have merit,

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still have legs. And I think you could do it

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as a pre event or a kickoff event. Yes, I

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do think you have to adjust the price point because

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you know, not you're you're not going to get You're

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not going to get three four hundred dollars a person

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if you're you don't have the clout or the ips

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that that universal is is putting out there, but you

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might include things like you might include things like a, well,

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do do your do your dress rehearsal, because that's the

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real point in doing it. Do your dress rehearsal, and

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then perhaps set up feedback sessions with some of the

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creative team so that you know you can continue to

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do that win win scenario where the guest gets to

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meet the person gets to meet some of the staff

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or some of the team that put the houses together,

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and the people who put the houses together get direct feedback,

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so you know, perhaps that's something that has very little investment,

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and because quite honestly, your creative team is probably going

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to be there anyway, so you might as well say, okay,

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for an hour, they're going to go do a panel

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or a presentation or even just a Q and A

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with some of the folks. And then another option, of course,

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is to you know, I strongly suggest that you do

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a food have a food element, have a food component,

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because it's not just dress rehearsal for the actors, it's

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also dress rehearsal for if you're doing anything new from

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in a culinary standpoint. And then one of the things

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that I would throw out there and you'd have to,

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you know, value engineer it and do the ROI on it.

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But one of the things I would suggest is, if

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you're a smaller company and you don't have the clout

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to just sell out at a ridiculously high price point,

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perhaps if you do this, then you have a ticket

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to come back on a Thursday night or a Wednesday

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night or an off night. So so not only do

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you get to be there first and you spend five

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hundred dollars or three hundred dollars or whatever, but you're

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actually buying that night and then one other off off night,

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whether that's a Thursday or a Sunday or a Wednesday

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or a Monday, however your park runs. And then it

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encourages them to become marketers for your event, and they'll

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bring back somebody because they don't have to pay for it.

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Yeah, that's true. Yeah, I think.

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I think I would really adjust the pricing quite significantly,

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because I think in this case it's about four times

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the ticket price.

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Yeah, and again they can do that. They can do

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that because they're universal.

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So yeah, and I would say it's a smaller operator,

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you could get nowhere near that. But I think there's

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other benefits you could get like Scott outlaid.

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Okay, do twice, do twice the ticket price, Yes, do

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twice the ticket price, include food and give them a freebie.

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Can come back on it on off night.

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Yeah, because I think the thing I saw and I

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saw this a lot even with this event. I mean

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there's a lot of people that were angry, that were like, really,

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I posted about it on my pages, and I'll all,

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I didn't get anything but negative comments on all my pages.

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So that's just that's anecdotal, I realize. But we're maybe

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sample size that maybe fifty to one hundred is what

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I pulled. And I would say it's because people are

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doing the calculations, and maybe that's just because of what

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we talked about with the economy and people are being

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like really value sensitive. But I think that's the other

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trap you don't want to fall into, is you get

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the they can look at your regular ticket price, and

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they can look they can add express paths to that,

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and they can add a food option to that, and

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they can total that up, and then they're like, is

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this value where is this fall in the value chain?

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And that's what I saw over and over and over

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again was like I could have bought you know, two

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food items and and gotten this and gotten this and

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had a better experience than this thing and think that's.

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But would you have gotten to see it first?

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Yeah, And I think that it depends on how much

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that matters to the core. So it's going to have

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to really be.

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But my point, I guess my point is, no matter

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how many people are going to gripe about it and

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grouse about it, you know what, they're going to do

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it again next year. Yeah, they're still going to sell

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all out next year and probably the sum of the

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same people who who groused about it this year.

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I do agree with your point about it.

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It's going to have to be more expensive in order

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to deter people into makeup for that, because that's gonna

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be The other problem is that Comcast is going to

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see the numbers. I'm sure that they made profit on it,

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and they're not going to want to go back like

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they're not going to lose money on it, so they're

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gonna So in order for you to reduce capacity, you're

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going to have to raise the price, I think, and

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I think what.

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You have to ask is what is the difference between

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coming to this night and coming to opening night. Yeah,

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what is the uniqueness? What is the is it? Is

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it reduced? Is it reduced, reduce crowds? Is it food

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isn't included? Is it a special souvenir or something something?

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Is it you get to come back or maybe you know.

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Another option for smaller for smaller operators is to maybe

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do a sell an event pass that is good for

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the run of the show whatever, but only people who

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have that event pass can get into the dress rehearsal night.

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Oh yeah, so they actually know.

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So it's added value.

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So it's added value for a full pass program because

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I know a lot of I know a lot of

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people who are a lot of organizations that are afraid

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to do a pass program for their Halloween event because

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they're saying, well, you know, people don't come back and

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blah blah blah blah blah. And my argument back is, well,

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have you ever tried it? No, but they it just

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00:11:51.559 --> 00:11:54.080
won't work. Okay, Well, you know what, You're right, if

245
00:11:54.120 --> 00:11:56.919
you don't do it, it won't work, right, But that

246
00:11:57.000 --> 00:11:59.399
might just be Another option to think about is to

247
00:11:59.480 --> 00:12:04.519
instead of selling it as as a separate commodity, make

248
00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:08.840
it the make it the past member preview for your

249
00:12:08.919 --> 00:12:11.879
Halloween event, you know, make it just available to those

250
00:12:11.919 --> 00:12:15.559
people who buy the Halloween pass. Yeah, I don't know,

251
00:12:15.600 --> 00:12:16.960
like that just another thought.

252
00:12:17.360 --> 00:12:19.559
Just just for a clarification.

253
00:12:19.600 --> 00:12:21.480
I didn't mention this, but then when Scott mentioned it

254
00:12:21.559 --> 00:12:23.639
the Premium Screen night this year, they did have a

255
00:12:23.679 --> 00:12:26.879
panel from HHN, but it was only a them talking

256
00:12:26.919 --> 00:12:28.840
to you panel. It wasn't a like, there was not

257
00:12:28.879 --> 00:12:30.639
a Q and A element. I did not go to

258
00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:33.080
the panel because I did not know about it, like

259
00:12:33.279 --> 00:12:36.120
I did not. It was not told to and I

260
00:12:36.159 --> 00:12:37.639
bought a ticket right and it was not told to

261
00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:40.000
me at any point. The only way I found out

262
00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:42.759
about it is because afterwards, when I was getting feedback

263
00:12:42.759 --> 00:12:45.559
from people, I did see like people mentioned it and

264
00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:47.519
had pictures, you know, of the sign and of the

265
00:12:47.679 --> 00:12:49.519
of the presentation.

266
00:12:49.080 --> 00:12:51.240
So otherwise I wouldn't have known about it so well.

267
00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:54.200
And my guess is that too was to control crowds.

268
00:12:53.879 --> 00:12:56.080
The capacity. I'm sure it was, yeah, because it was early.

269
00:12:56.159 --> 00:12:59.519
It was like seven thirty and the event started at

270
00:12:59.519 --> 00:13:01.360
six thirty, and it was at seven thirty, and then

271
00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:04.360
there was a two hour rain storm from like you know,

272
00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:06.320
eight to ten or somewhere in there there was rain.

273
00:13:06.399 --> 00:13:10.200
So anyway, so moving on, moving on to the event

274
00:13:10.240 --> 00:13:11.759
as a whole. Okay, so the event as a whole.

275
00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:15.000
They sold out opening night again this year, and opening

276
00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:17.960
weekend because it's also late day weekend, is very full.

277
00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:21.000
But I would say overall, the biggest trend I noticed

278
00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:23.679
at the event is that it seems to me like

279
00:13:23.720 --> 00:13:26.600
they are trying to fit more people in the event

280
00:13:26.679 --> 00:13:30.200
as a whole, and they're trying to accomplish that by

281
00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:33.600
increasing the entertainment and increasing the footprint.

282
00:13:33.799 --> 00:13:35.080
I think these are the biggest trends.

283
00:13:35.120 --> 00:13:36.919
The houses are the houses, right, The houses are in

284
00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:39.480
the same spots, they're ten of them. It's the same,

285
00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:42.440
it's the same formula. It's it's the cut and repeats

286
00:13:42.519 --> 00:13:44.320
the house. It's the eyps are different, but it's the

287
00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:47.799
same thing. What's really interesting is what they do with

288
00:13:47.879 --> 00:13:50.639
everything else, because that's where you have margin to play, right,

289
00:13:51.679 --> 00:13:54.200
And I think I would say some of the biggest

290
00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:57.559
items I noticed this year is they are expanding the

291
00:13:57.559 --> 00:13:59.559
footprint so they're basically there.

292
00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:01.360
There.

293
00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:05.919
They moved for the houses out I would say, past

294
00:14:05.960 --> 00:14:08.440
the Blue Man Theater, so when you're walking you're leaving

295
00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:10.840
the park, and you're making this big loop. So you're

296
00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:13.440
leaving the park, walking like past Blueman Theater, getting in

297
00:14:13.440 --> 00:14:15.519
a line, going to the haunt, and then walking exit,

298
00:14:15.679 --> 00:14:17.480
dumping back in the park and doing the whole thing again.

299
00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:21.039
So effectively, what that does is increasing the footprint of

300
00:14:21.080 --> 00:14:23.840
the event. So they're moving the haunts basically way out

301
00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:27.519
so that all the lines are not in the park,

302
00:14:27.720 --> 00:14:30.720
so that all of the normal guest areas in the

303
00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:33.279
park are open, so they can physically fit more people.

304
00:14:33.799 --> 00:14:36.360
Well, what what haunts have been actually in the park

305
00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:40.440
footprint before? I mean, what what pathways have they taken

306
00:14:40.519 --> 00:14:44.039
up with haunts before? Because they've they've experimented with a

307
00:14:44.039 --> 00:14:46.720
bunch of different ideas over the years. And I haven't

308
00:14:46.720 --> 00:14:51.000
been in quite a few years now, but they've they've

309
00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:54.799
all when I went, they were always finding new empty fields,

310
00:14:54.919 --> 00:14:59.080
back backstage parking lots when they when they stopped when

311
00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:01.639
they couldn't afford to the sound stages anymore, you know,

312
00:15:01.679 --> 00:15:06.240
they So what what was what's different? I guess what

313
00:15:06.279 --> 00:15:09.240
have what has opened up since they've moved these haunts.

314
00:15:09.759 --> 00:15:13.480
So last year they spent a significant portion of their

315
00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:19.440
budget to build two permanent buildings, two permanent stages backstage

316
00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:23.519
with a paved and covered line queue right, and so

317
00:15:23.559 --> 00:15:25.840
that this year has just been polished and so there's

318
00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:27.120
a whole there's restrooms back there.

319
00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:29.320
There's a whole like space that is.

320
00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:34.399
Not not you know, it's a completely backstage, but it's

321
00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:36.840
a whole transformed space now where it's like a little

322
00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:39.039
self contained area with restrooms and all that stuff.

323
00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:40.679
And so that's one example.

324
00:15:40.759 --> 00:15:43.440
The other example is this year, and it could be

325
00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:46.200
because of the construction they're doing that road, the coaster construction,

326
00:15:46.320 --> 00:15:49.320
and the Fallon is downright, so that that whole area

327
00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:52.519
is down so that whole area is that whole area

328
00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:54.279
used to be Q lines used to have Q line

329
00:15:54.320 --> 00:15:57.600
by Fallon and Q line over by the the that

330
00:15:57.639 --> 00:16:00.559
little amphitheater and all that, and instead all that lines

331
00:16:00.559 --> 00:16:02.480
on moved like past Blue Man.

332
00:16:02.879 --> 00:16:06.519
So they've made a whole walkway kind of like zone.

333
00:16:06.519 --> 00:16:08.799
They actually it's actually labeled on the map as like

334
00:16:08.799 --> 00:16:11.960
a haunt pathway where you're like literally you're walking and

335
00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:14.399
there's four haunts. You know, the line cues are way

336
00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:17.240
back there. So they've really just moved space.

337
00:16:17.440 --> 00:16:19.320
That's a model that they've used on and off for

338
00:16:19.399 --> 00:16:23.360
years where they will do four. Last time I went,

339
00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:26.559
they did like four haunts back in some back area

340
00:16:27.440 --> 00:16:33.159
that we're in, uh clear span tense basically and with facades.

341
00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:36.200
Everything is in a stage now so that they're all

342
00:16:36.240 --> 00:16:40.240
they're all contained within stages, which is good because of

343
00:16:40.240 --> 00:16:41.120
the rain, right.

344
00:16:41.159 --> 00:16:42.399
And then it's and then.

345
00:16:42.639 --> 00:16:45.679
Like we talk about like I will say, they've really

346
00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:49.879
found a way the two houses they built last year

347
00:16:50.279 --> 00:16:54.120
in those selfs in that something area. It is one

348
00:16:54.159 --> 00:16:56.799
of the best examples of weather proofing I've seen at

349
00:16:56.840 --> 00:16:59.799
a Haunt event because it's on a paved, drained area.

350
00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:02.200
It's covered so like you could stand in that line

351
00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:04.319
in the middle of a rainstorm and then you could

352
00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:05.519
go in too the haunts and everything will be fine.

353
00:17:05.519 --> 00:17:08.519
And that's the point, you know. And they haven't done

354
00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:11.039
that for everything a lot of the you know, but

355
00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:14.880
still overall, what they're doing is you used to line

356
00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:18.680
up relatively in the park ish and now there's no

357
00:17:18.759 --> 00:17:21.119
lines in the park. Everything is outside and they are

358
00:17:21.160 --> 00:17:25.319
trying to make those lines more creature comforty and yeah,

359
00:17:25.359 --> 00:17:26.079
and then I think.

360
00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:29.240
The creature comfort stuff is new, that is they've never

361
00:17:29.279 --> 00:17:31.119
done that before or at least they didn't do that

362
00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:32.960
back in the back in Mortaday. They didn't do it

363
00:17:33.000 --> 00:17:36.480
back in the day. But so I think that's super smart.

364
00:17:36.519 --> 00:17:39.720
And they're you know again like we always say, creature comfort,

365
00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:42.359
creature comfort, creature comfort, and you can't belame the weather

366
00:17:42.440 --> 00:17:43.880
because the weather's going to happen.

367
00:17:44.279 --> 00:17:46.559
Yeah, and it's hurricane season, like that's always the thing is,

368
00:17:46.559 --> 00:17:48.720
like it's it's hurricane season when the Halloween's trying to

369
00:17:48.759 --> 00:17:50.640
operate in these parks, and all the parks have to

370
00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:53.400
plan for it. And so I think they're all that

371
00:17:53.440 --> 00:17:56.880
infrastructure is very smart. The other big thing that they've

372
00:17:56.880 --> 00:18:00.559
been doing beyond so now they're firing multip So not

373
00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:02.880
only are they moving people out so you can fit

374
00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:07.119
more people in the get regular daytime guest areas, but

375
00:18:07.160 --> 00:18:11.079
then they're also firing the show, so the Nightmare Fuel

376
00:18:11.160 --> 00:18:13.000
is firing on a regular basis, and they also have

377
00:18:13.119 --> 00:18:16.279
Lagoon Show, so they have these two huge crowd sinks,

378
00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:18.319
so you have a lot of crowd management there.

379
00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:20.920
And then they've also expanded.

380
00:18:20.359 --> 00:18:24.240
The scare zones and added like what they're calling live entertainment.

381
00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:28.359
So the scare zone expansion is interesting because what it

382
00:18:28.440 --> 00:18:31.920
is is like effectively and they're and now they're just

383
00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:35.440
leaving them up so they're not taking anything down. Everything

384
00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:37.880
just stays up for daytime at night time, so enough,

385
00:18:37.960 --> 00:18:40.319
no props from everything's just but what they're doing is

386
00:18:40.359 --> 00:18:44.640
like they're like little I don't I don't know how

387
00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:47.519
to describe them, but effectually, like they're not like set pieces.

388
00:18:47.559 --> 00:18:50.000
They're they're basically like miniature.

389
00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:54.960
Rooms kind of thing. So maybe it's like a I

390
00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:56.680
don't even know dimensions. Maybe it's like a.

391
00:18:58.359 --> 00:19:00.640
They're like little rooms that they're set up like little

392
00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:02.880
just like miniature stages, right, but they're all over the

393
00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:06.960
scare zones, and then actors can walk into them and

394
00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:09.680
hide and they have paddles in these areas, so they're

395
00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:14.200
like little mobile It's like a like deconstructed haunt.

396
00:19:14.400 --> 00:19:16.359
We just call it a boo box. It's a yeah,

397
00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:18.799
it's a place where they can where an actor can

398
00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:24.599
be located from a safety standpoint, somewhat protected.

399
00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:26.440
And protect exactly.

400
00:19:26.160 --> 00:19:30.200
Also can be hidden and part of the scenic.

401
00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:33.880
And I think these are about these are significant ish chunks.

402
00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:37.400
They're maybe like ten feet by like ten feet by

403
00:19:37.400 --> 00:19:40.680
like maybe six feet wide, so they're significant chunks, you know.

404
00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:42.519
But then like you said, they allow for the actor

405
00:19:42.559 --> 00:19:44.480
to hide in there, and then they're also letting the

406
00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:46.720
characters do whatever they want, so they can like stay

407
00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:48.079
in the holes, they can go in and out of them,

408
00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:50.720
they can do whatever they can manage their spaces, which

409
00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:53.200
is I think is better because it LEAs allows them

410
00:19:53.200 --> 00:19:56.240
to the actors to adapt to the guest flow and

411
00:19:56.279 --> 00:20:01.519
to do that. So they're they also have added in

412
00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:04.359
the scarzone over by Men in Black Area, they've added

413
00:20:04.559 --> 00:20:10.039
a full, full scenic piece. So there's like a it's

414
00:20:10.039 --> 00:20:12.880
called the Cat Lady on Crooked Lane, and it's my

415
00:20:12.960 --> 00:20:15.400
favorite area. Actually, I think that the story there is

416
00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:19.000
that's the best part of the event. Like it is

417
00:20:19.319 --> 00:20:22.279
because when you first start walking down the lane, you

418
00:20:22.319 --> 00:20:25.319
see her a little like you know, her sign, and

419
00:20:25.359 --> 00:20:28.160
then you see the trick or treaters, so you encounter

420
00:20:28.160 --> 00:20:30.359
trick or treaters, and then eventually you start to see

421
00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:32.400
like these little cats and then you see like deformed cats,

422
00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:34.559
and then you get to the end and her house

423
00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:38.680
and it's a giant, full witch house that has show

424
00:20:39.079 --> 00:20:41.960
lighting and show elements and everything, and basically what it

425
00:20:41.960 --> 00:20:44.640
does is I'm not sure on the timing. But every

426
00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:48.519
once in a while the show fires, which is a

427
00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:50.880
cat louring a trick or treater from the front of

428
00:20:50.920 --> 00:20:53.559
the street down to the house, and the church goes

429
00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:56.839
up on the stage and the witch feeds her. It's like, oh,

430
00:20:56.960 --> 00:20:59.359
here's some candy, but also here's this drink. You know,

431
00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:04.279
you should try this out of my cauldron suspiciously, you know.

432
00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:08.400
And then the the church turn transforms into like a

433
00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:11.319
mutant cat, and then she's like pets the witch. Pets

434
00:21:11.319 --> 00:21:14.519
are and they go out and attack people. But it's

435
00:21:14.599 --> 00:21:16.799
just the scale of having this big scenic piece at

436
00:21:16.839 --> 00:21:20.920
the end and having again something for the people to stay.

437
00:21:21.400 --> 00:21:24.720
Right and right four and this is this is comparable

438
00:21:24.759 --> 00:21:26.720
to what we used to do it at the entrance

439
00:21:26.720 --> 00:21:28.799
of Hella Scream, you know, when we did House the

440
00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:32.359
House of Vain, House of Vain Runway or the Twins,

441
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:36.119
when they would you know, bring guests up and murder

442
00:21:36.160 --> 00:21:39.240
them randomly throughout the course of the night. It was

443
00:21:39.400 --> 00:21:44.200
it was a place to so we use We actually

444
00:21:44.279 --> 00:21:46.440
used it to pulse the crowd coming in because we

445
00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:49.400
did it at the front. So if we get people

446
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:52.480
to stop and watch for a hot second and then

447
00:21:52.519 --> 00:21:55.599
move on into the park. It kept a sort of rhythm.

448
00:21:56.160 --> 00:21:58.480
It wasn't just everybody gets in and runs to the haunt.

449
00:21:59.400 --> 00:22:03.559
So yeah, I think that by using live entertainment as

450
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:08.039
a as a crowdflow mechanism, I think that's great. I

451
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:09.920
think it would be even better is if they could

452
00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:13.359
if they could actually get them off the sidewalks and

453
00:22:13.480 --> 00:22:15.960
do do some sort of crowd suck so it pulls

454
00:22:16.319 --> 00:22:20.799
people out. That's the way to really raise your well.

455
00:22:20.839 --> 00:22:22.839
I think that's that's part of the reason why they

456
00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:24.680
did it there at the crooked Lengths. If you think

457
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:26.839
about where men and the black when where men in

458
00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:30.599
black is since since that area are not men in black.

459
00:22:30.599 --> 00:22:33.480
Sorry it's it's by e T I said, men in black,

460
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:35.880
But it's not. It's in that little corner where ET

461
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:38.839
is and ET is down, and so it does allow

462
00:22:38.880 --> 00:22:43.200
people to congregate in that little well.

463
00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:44.680
And I was when I was thinking men in black,

464
00:22:44.720 --> 00:22:45.680
I was thinking.

465
00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:47.839
You're right, Yeah I was. I said that wrong.

466
00:22:47.960 --> 00:22:49.960
I was thinking back at that corner there where you

467
00:22:50.000 --> 00:22:52.920
know you could that's not a bad that's not a

468
00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:55.720
bad guests suck. The only problem is you're right next

469
00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:57.799
to the the big theater.

470
00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:00.200
So yes, and so they they they do have it

471
00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:02.880
over there in that little in the et corner.

472
00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:03.880
Sorry, and so that it does.

473
00:23:03.920 --> 00:23:05.759
It does allow people to stop and kind of form

474
00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:09.400
circle around and then the mells die in. So now

475
00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:12.880
outside mells there's a zombies on roller skates and they

476
00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:15.039
have a stage where they can do a stage show there.

477
00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:19.640
And then they added a little dance area as well.

478
00:23:19.680 --> 00:23:20.559
Over by where.

479
00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:25.759
H potter Ish is by the wharf area, there's a

480
00:23:25.839 --> 00:23:28.720
dance zone over there. So basically my point is what

481
00:23:28.759 --> 00:23:31.559
they've done is they've added a lot of entertainment elements

482
00:23:31.599 --> 00:23:34.799
and so I think it's getting closer and closer to

483
00:23:34.839 --> 00:23:37.599
where you could build the case of attending the event

484
00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:40.359
and not doing the houses well.

485
00:23:40.400 --> 00:23:43.000
And that's something that that many theme parks have been

486
00:23:43.000 --> 00:23:46.039
looking at and exploring for several years. I've done some

487
00:23:46.079 --> 00:23:49.720
preliminary work for other for competitors and to try to

488
00:23:49.759 --> 00:23:53.880
make it so that the houses are not the key draw.

489
00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:57.079
Right because it limits your capacity because you can't like

490
00:23:57.519 --> 00:24:01.920
you know it, come. I saw this at the event

491
00:24:02.039 --> 00:24:05.519
right going. I went three days issh in a row

492
00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:09.599
and the wait times I mean for this is the

493
00:24:09.599 --> 00:24:12.960
problem when you only have they only have five ip houses,

494
00:24:13.119 --> 00:24:15.279
right they have, and only four that really matter, I

495
00:24:15.319 --> 00:24:17.680
mean honestly sorry, but like they have Finance Aid, Freddy's

496
00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:23.039
and Jason and Fallout, and then those are the main ones.

497
00:24:23.079 --> 00:24:27.279
But those are frequently over two hours, and so this

498
00:24:27.359 --> 00:24:29.640
is the problem. The problem is that you if too

499
00:24:29.759 --> 00:24:31.839
much of the event is centered on the things you

500
00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:34.519
have to see, it limits your capacity and then the

501
00:24:34.559 --> 00:24:37.079
people are grumpy because they're waiting two or three hours

502
00:24:37.319 --> 00:24:40.359
for a five minute experience, and that's not a good experience.

503
00:24:40.359 --> 00:24:42.519
So instead it's like if you can make the case

504
00:24:42.680 --> 00:24:45.359
of like you could go your friend group, and then

505
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:47.160
if your friend group is like, I don't want to wait.

506
00:24:47.279 --> 00:24:49.200
So if someone is like I don't care about Fallout

507
00:24:49.240 --> 00:24:50.759
because I haven't seen it, I'm not going to wait

508
00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:54.039
three hours, they can go do other things. And if

509
00:24:54.079 --> 00:24:56.359
as long as there's enough for them to do, then

510
00:24:56.359 --> 00:24:58.000
the friend group can all have a good time because

511
00:24:58.039 --> 00:25:00.920
the Fallout diehards can wait and they don't mind waiting.51200:25:01.160 --> 00:25:03.839



But then the rest of the friend group can do51300:25:04.039 --> 00:25:07.519



the other hangout and then the food is a big element.51400:25:07.599 --> 00:25:09.839



They really did plus the food. Again, we talked about51500:25:09.880 --> 00:25:14.319



that last year where they were you know only it's51600:25:14.319 --> 00:25:17.920



only been a few years that they've made full themed51700:25:19.079 --> 00:25:21.799



you know food chios, and they've just plus that up51800:25:21.960 --> 00:25:23.640



up more and more because now they're all tied to51900:25:23.640 --> 00:25:25.559



the IP, so they have fallout food and they have52000:25:25.880 --> 00:25:27.279



terrifier food and blah blah.52100:25:27.319 --> 00:25:27.680



And so.52200:25:29.240 --> 00:25:32.039



I think it's interesting because in Hollywood they're testing out52300:25:32.039 --> 00:25:34.720



a dining pass and I would not be surprised if52400:25:34.759 --> 00:25:38.200



they tried to turn it into like a Halloween Hornit's52500:25:38.640 --> 00:25:41.759



only food festival where they gave you a tasting card52600:25:41.799 --> 00:25:42.319



and you could do it.52700:25:42.359 --> 00:25:44.200



And I actually think that's probably the plan.52800:25:44.279 --> 00:25:46.559



I think they're testing it in Hollywood and then they'll52900:25:46.640 --> 00:25:48.839



kind of see the reception and I do think it's53000:25:48.839 --> 00:25:50.720



going to evolve that way, and I think it should, honestly,53100:25:50.759 --> 00:25:55.039



because the I think it's become enough of a thing53200:25:55.920 --> 00:26:00.000



where there's enough people that want to try the various food,53300:26:00.039 --> 00:26:03.200



I think it would work. And and especially even at53400:26:03.200 --> 00:26:05.480



the price, I is, thirteen dollars for like a cup53500:26:05.480 --> 00:26:09.759



of spam, I mean, this is this is yeah, it's yeah,53600:26:09.799 --> 00:26:15.400



it's was not young, but it it's I think I53700:26:15.400 --> 00:26:18.039



think there's there's definitely the potential there.53800:26:18.319 --> 00:26:22.000



Well, the other appeal to doing that that food pass,53900:26:22.079 --> 00:26:26.279



that food sampling passes, if they've had any concern about54000:26:26.400 --> 00:26:28.680



people drinking too much. Now I realized it's really hard54100:26:28.680 --> 00:26:30.799



to do at a Universal park because you know, you54200:26:31.119 --> 00:26:34.960



spend five times the amount of the ticket price on54300:26:34.960 --> 00:26:39.920



on enough alcohol to get you drunk. So but the uh,54400:26:40.880 --> 00:26:42.720



but I think that's I think that's also there's an54500:26:42.720 --> 00:26:44.240



operational side to that one as well.54600:26:44.759 --> 00:26:48.079



Yep, yep. Well.54700:26:48.119 --> 00:26:52.200



Oh, also, the they're piloting no Scare necklaces, which is54800:26:52.240 --> 00:26:55.079



something they did not publicize previously, and they it just54900:26:55.160 --> 00:26:57.839



kind of like appeared and then took the internet by storm,55000:26:57.920 --> 00:27:00.680



is what happened. And I have not actually you've seen one,55100:27:00.799 --> 00:27:03.200



Like I looked to buy one or at least take55200:27:03.279 --> 00:27:05.440



the other a picture of one, and I could not55300:27:05.519 --> 00:27:07.599



find it. And I also did not see anybody wearing55400:27:07.599 --> 00:27:09.119



one like the days I went.55500:27:09.240 --> 00:27:11.319



So I'm not sure. I just know that it's caused55600:27:11.359 --> 00:27:12.160



an enormous.55700:27:11.839 --> 00:27:15.480



Aunt of controversy on the Internet, because you know, people55800:27:15.480 --> 00:27:17.640



are like, don't bring your children into blah blah blah blah.55900:27:17.680 --> 00:27:21.480



But I think I think what this does is support56000:27:21.680 --> 00:27:23.599



the overall theory that we've been talking about, which is56100:27:23.640 --> 00:27:27.640



that they are trying to not only expand into more56200:27:27.920 --> 00:27:32.039



larger demographics with WWE and with gaming with Fallout with56300:27:32.079 --> 00:27:36.359



five Nights, So they're trying to reach non classically horror demographics. Right,56400:27:36.440 --> 00:27:38.960



These are not horror diehards. They care about other things.56500:27:39.039 --> 00:27:40.680



They're trying to reach them. And it seems like they're56600:27:40.680 --> 00:27:43.920



also trying to reach larger families by making more to56700:27:44.039 --> 00:27:47.920



just do so you could you could envision parents purchasing56800:27:48.720 --> 00:27:51.119



a ticket for their whole family and showing up and56900:27:51.160 --> 00:27:53.279



the parents just enjoying the scare zones and the shows57000:27:53.319 --> 00:27:55.279



and the food and blah blah blah, and laying the57100:27:55.319 --> 00:27:57.160



kids stand in the three hour line to see finance57200:27:57.200 --> 00:28:00.279



a friddys right, Like that's I could envision this, And57300:28:00.319 --> 00:28:04.440



in that model, no scaring necklace would be important because57400:28:04.440 --> 00:28:06.559



you are going to have people that are never going57500:28:06.640 --> 00:28:09.359



to go to the houses and they just don't want57600:28:09.359 --> 00:28:11.799



to be scared by these boot boxes, you know, that57700:28:11.880 --> 00:28:15.839



are all now all around the entertainment zones. So I57800:28:15.839 --> 00:28:17.759



could I think I could see that. I don't know,57900:28:17.839 --> 00:28:22.160



we'll see how it does. But basically it's twenty dollars58000:28:22.200 --> 00:28:23.759



and it only works in the scare zones.58100:28:23.799 --> 00:28:25.319



It doesn't work in the houses.58200:28:25.079 --> 00:28:27.559



Right, so because you don't see them in the houses anyway.58300:28:28.160 --> 00:28:30.400



Yeah, But then so then it begs the question of like,58400:28:30.440 --> 00:28:33.799



why would you do this unless you are planning to58500:28:33.799 --> 00:28:37.359



have a demographic that isn't even interested in the houses.58600:28:37.400 --> 00:28:39.920



Well, but let's go back, Let's go back to what58700:28:39.960 --> 00:28:47.160



you said before horrorites, because horrorites is horrorites. The powers58800:28:47.160 --> 00:28:50.039



that be are looking at it going, we can't we58900:28:50.160 --> 00:28:55.640



can't expand within this demographic anymore. Yes, we own this demographic,59000:28:56.319 --> 00:29:01.519



but our our stockholders want to continue to see their59100:29:01.640 --> 00:29:04.000



their stocks and their revenues. They want to see you know,59200:29:05.480 --> 00:29:08.480



higher per cap, higher money, higher attendance, blah blah blah59300:29:08.480 --> 00:29:10.440



blah blah. They want to see all that. So what59400:29:10.480 --> 00:29:12.720



can we do? And the only thing you can do59500:29:13.240 --> 00:29:18.000



is to go outside of that core demo. Now, that59600:29:18.160 --> 00:29:22.200



looks great on paper, That looks great on paper. The59700:29:22.200 --> 00:29:24.960



problem is when you go outside that demo, you water59800:29:25.160 --> 00:29:30.079



down the impact for your core demo. So and you59900:29:30.160 --> 00:29:31.759



have to You can do it, but you have to60000:29:31.799 --> 00:29:34.519



kind of find that balance. As far as no scared60100:29:34.559 --> 00:29:38.440



necklaces go, I totally understand why on paper that looks60200:29:38.480 --> 00:29:40.759



like it makes so much sense because it's like, oh,60300:29:40.799 --> 00:29:42.920



I don't I want to go with my friends, but60400:29:43.000 --> 00:29:44.680



I don't like content houses and I don't like to60500:29:44.680 --> 00:29:47.240



get scared, and so I'll just get the no Scared60600:29:47.240 --> 00:29:49.279



necklace and the park is going great. We'll take that60700:29:49.319 --> 00:29:52.720



extra twenty bucks to do less. Yeah, well, you know60800:29:52.799 --> 00:29:59.160



that's fine. The problem with that in practice is if60900:29:59.759 --> 00:30:02.279



you know, there's five people and one person in the61000:30:02.279 --> 00:30:05.000



group has a no Scare necklace, guess what happens. None61100:30:05.039 --> 00:30:06.759



of those five people get approached as they go through61200:30:06.759 --> 00:30:09.319



scare zones. So all the friends who wanted to get61300:30:09.359 --> 00:30:12.519



scared aren't getting scared because the actors are afraid of61400:30:12.559 --> 00:30:17.319



scaring somebody who is wearing the no Scare necklace. It's61500:30:17.920 --> 00:30:20.440



these are all things that look really good on paper,61600:30:21.920 --> 00:30:25.599



but I I in practice, and they may be financially61700:30:25.759 --> 00:30:28.599



viable as well, because, let's face it, those necklaces cost nothing,61800:30:29.079 --> 00:30:31.359



so you know, cost of goods on those is virtually nothing,61900:30:31.400 --> 00:30:33.680



and some people would buy them just to have you know,62000:30:33.759 --> 00:30:37.839



that that souvenir, you know, just it's the it's the62100:30:37.839 --> 00:30:41.200



popcorn bucket for the non scare crowd. So you know,62200:30:41.240 --> 00:30:47.279



who knows, but it will impact the overall terror of62300:30:47.359 --> 00:30:51.920



the event, and so you know, hopefully they won't continue62400:30:51.960 --> 00:30:55.319



to water things down with w W. You know when62500:30:55.359 --> 00:30:57.119



they when they brought in the Weekend several years ago,62600:30:57.160 --> 00:31:00.359



I was like, huh, okay, here we go. It's time62700:31:00.359 --> 00:31:02.119



to time to not make this Halloween.62800:31:02.400 --> 00:31:03.599



But I understand me.62900:31:04.440 --> 00:31:06.640



I understand their reason for trying it. I understand their63000:31:06.640 --> 00:31:09.079



reason for trying it because you can't push that market63100:31:09.119 --> 00:31:11.960



any further. They already own it. They've already got everybody63200:31:12.039 --> 00:31:13.599



that they that they think they're going to get, So63300:31:13.640 --> 00:31:16.200



now they have to start looking at other ways outside63400:31:16.359 --> 00:31:20.160



of that. And I just I just want to warn63500:31:20.640 --> 00:31:28.359



people that, you know, what is it. Successful pigs live well,63600:31:28.359 --> 00:31:32.640



but greedy pigs get slaughtered. So just be careful, Just63700:31:32.680 --> 00:31:35.759



be careful. And that would be that that would be63800:31:35.759 --> 00:31:38.000



the trend for people who aren't in Universal. Universal is63900:31:38.000 --> 00:31:39.519



going to do what Universe is going to do, because64000:31:39.599 --> 00:31:43.240



quite honestly, they could, They could not do anything different64100:31:43.279 --> 00:31:45.559



and still continue to make a gazillion dollars every single64200:31:45.599 --> 00:31:50.039



year because they they are their own ip Halloween Hornites64300:31:50.079 --> 00:31:53.720



is its own ip so and a successful one. But64400:31:53.839 --> 00:31:57.480



for other folks. Be careful about watering things down, because64500:31:57.519 --> 00:31:59.519



if you try to be everything to everyone, you're nothing64600:31:59.559 --> 00:32:03.000



to anyone. So just just keep that in mind as64700:32:03.000 --> 00:32:05.079



you're looking at some of these ideas and going, oh,64800:32:05.119 --> 00:32:08.519



we should do a no Scare necklace. Okay, but recognize64900:32:08.519 --> 00:32:10.839



you've now made it a family friendly event and if65000:32:10.880 --> 00:32:13.039



that's not your target market and that's not your marketing,65100:32:13.599 --> 00:32:15.200



then you you know, and you're gonna lose if you65200:32:15.200 --> 00:32:17.480



do that, you're gonna lose money in alcohol sales. So65300:32:18.039 --> 00:32:20.480



just look at all the balances, ask all those questions,65400:32:20.599 --> 00:32:23.359



all right, but we've given as many answers as we65500:32:23.400 --> 00:32:26.400



can because we're out of time, so on behalf of65600:32:26.440 --> 00:32:28.799



Philip Bernandez and myself Scott Swinson. This is Green Tag65700:32:28.839 --> 00:32:31.119



Theme Park in thirty and we will see you next65800:32:31.119 --> 00:32:31.359



week