Oct. 31, 2025

Halloween Special: Trends, Tropes, and Takeaways

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From Hollywood to Florida and New York to Oregon, this year’s Halloween season proved that the industry is evolving—just not abandoning its roots. Sliders continue to grow as choreographed street theater, chainsaws remain the undeniable American haunt anthem, and creative teams nationwide are finding new ways to give guests something active to do between scares. From selfie moments and staged photo ops to queue-line performers and mini-interactions, the focus is shifting from watching horror to participating in it. Philip and Scott break down what these trends say about guest expectations, why smaller haunts are thriving by leaning into intimacy and story, and how even major parks are rethinking Halloween as a festival of constant engagement rather than a night of passive walkthroughs. Listen to weekly BONUS episodes on our Patreon.

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Okay, from our studios in Los Angeles and Tampa. This

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is Green Tag Team Park and thirty. I'm Philip. I'm

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joined as always by my co host Scott Swinson of

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Scott Swinson creat Development on Green Tad. We normally look

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at all of the news each week and explain white

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matters to business professionals.

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But this week is Halloween.

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That's that typical, typical Halloween sound. You know.

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Wow, that reminded me of my childhood for a second

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with the little hangs in the way and so oh,

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look at that.

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Scott has props. I didn't.

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Scott always has props when it comes to Halloween.

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I so today, obviously we're going to talk about Halloween.

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We're just talking about trends, We're talking about divisive topics,

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We're talking about all of the elements of Halloween. Scott

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and I are both deeply in the halloween world. Scott

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used to run Bush Gardens, Tampa's Hollis Cream for many

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years and then now he has written for haunts all

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over the world, and I have covered.

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Haunts all over the world over the world.

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In addition to working at several places I worked in media,

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I also work at a few larger clients, and of

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course I used to have a screen park a long

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time ago, and so we both have a lot of

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opinions and thoughts about the haunt space, from operations to

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marketing to creative and so as much as we try

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and move on, I think every time, you know, you

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still we still go to thing. And of course this

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year I went to many many haunts.

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To mix with you, this.

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Is actually Halloween light season for me. I went to

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fewer haunts this year than I think I've gone to

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in the last thirty years. But it's interesting because some

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of them were haunts that I was working on some

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of them or Halloween festivals that I was working on.

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Some of them more haunts that I did work on

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in the past, and some of them were some of

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the trends that we're seeing and we're going to discuss

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in the show are things that I've seen, and we

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did a little shit chat before the before we started recording,

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and we've discovered that some of these might just be regional.

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I don't know, we'll see so when we get to that, well,

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we'll start to talk about it. But you know, I

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think a lot of the stuff we've covered, but I

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think it's important to cover it again because this is

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our Halloween special. So there you go. Yeah, where do

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you want to start, Philip? You want to start with

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Horror Unleased? You want to start in Vegas?

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Okay, Horrorunleashed was the first to open for the Hall

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of I'm going to say it's following season. Even though

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Horror Leashed is year round, of course, it's universal is

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new year round horror experience there in Las Vegas. I

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just started jumping into it without explaining it, and then

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I realized that the biggest thing I've heard about Horror

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Leashed is how many how few people.

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Are aware of it.

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So I was like, we maybe we should explain that

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it's a universal is year round experiment in Las Vegas

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next to Area fifteen. And that media day was on

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August tenth, so that was when my season started. And

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they've been, you know, going since then and period. Oh

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you have not been, Scott. I don't know if you

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watched any videos.

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Yes, I've watched some of the videos, and I've talked

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to some people who've been other than just Philip. And

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the response that I'm hearing it's interesting because I like

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to hear what other people have to say, because I

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think I'm either jaded or looking for the wrong things

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sometimes when I go to Halloween events, so I like

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to hear what other people have to say. And I

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haven't talked to anybody who has been overtly negative. But

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I also haven't talked to anybody who has been oh

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my gosh, this is the best thing since sliced bread.

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So and again, I think we kind of said it

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when we covered it on the show earlier. Is it's

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not targeted to a hot audience, is what I'm is

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kind of what I'm reading between the lines. It's targeted

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to a Vegas audience, which makes sense, which are people

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who enjoy haunted attractions but are not quite as uh

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are their expectations are different than those people who work

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in the hont industry. And I also think that you

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know something that you had mentioned, Philip, was that, uh,

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some of the the installations or pieces are are installed

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so that they can be.

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Changed yep, which they've already announced they're going to put

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a Crampis experience there in the midway.

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Yeah, so that makes that makes total sense for a

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year round permanent installation, you know, you need to be

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as modular as possible to change that stuff out.

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Yeah, I agree with all that.

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I think I think we're already going to veer off,

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veer off topic, or not off topic, but off into

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a separate I think something I think people, especially us

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in the trashional industry. I think if you've done a

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lot of haunts, you have a lot of haunt experience.

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I think what a lot of people forget is that

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it's kind of like the minimum biable product. It's like

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you have to what really matters is what is good

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for your guest, what entertains your guest, and what entertains

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your guest in your.

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Market that you're in. Okay, it doesn't matter.

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So that and that's that's the hard thing, because you know,

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as you do more haunts and experience more things and

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you see all this stuff, then you you have, I guess,

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a more refined palette, as I would say it, you know,

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as as somebody who's gone around done a bunch of stuff.

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But you always have to think about it's not for you,

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you know, it's for the people that you're trying to

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get in to go to your market.

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And so.

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I think that I.

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Think a lot of people like a lot of just haunters,

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but a lot of rabid theme park fans also forget that,

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like it's it's not so all that being said, I

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think Horror Unleashed is not for people in California that

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are used to Halloween horn nites. It is for people

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in Vegas who are there visiting casinos and are gonna

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go to Area fifteen, get in the uber somehow, go

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over there for uh, do multiple things like go to

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Air fifteen to see me a wolf and do or

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a concert or whatever. They're gonna do a few things.

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They're gonna throw this in there, and it's meant to

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be part of that type of experience, Like it's not

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meant to be something that people adjust their plans to

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go to. Like no one's gonna go to Vecus just

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for that. I mean haunters maybe, but that's.

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The thing may people have. But but again those are

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the ones who give it the least, the least positive review.

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That's exactly right, Like that's exactly right.

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Like if if your entire thing is you're gonna spend

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all the money in time just to go to horn Leech,

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it's not gonna be worth it. And I but again

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I think that's I'm sure they knew that, like because

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because when I always describe it, I say, it's basically

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it's just a watered down version of Halloween horn Nits,

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which is interesting on its face just because you know,

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you would think or common sense would would make you

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think that that you could or you know that they

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would be better because they have a building they built

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from scratch, like from spec But it's more like they.

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I don't know.

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I mean, it's just it's just it's a less it's

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not as good as Halloween whatever. Whatever the reason is

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it the is it the excitement, you know, is it

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the crowd or what is it the missing the theme park,

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whatever the reasons, it's it's not just not as good

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as well.

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It's it's also under one roof. I think that has

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a lot to do with it. I think that you

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know the fact that Hornites, whether it's California or Florida,

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is more spread out. It's there's more anticipation built between things,

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there's more of a crowd energy. I think that is

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is different because it's seasonal, so everybody's like, oh, we

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got to go do it now because it's going to

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go away, and well, now what seventy seventy two days,

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it'll go away. I mean something ridiculous like that. There's

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a there's a fuse to it, there's an energy to

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it that I don't think you're ever going to get

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into year round hunt. But but I'm curious and hopeful

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that it will at least be sustainable so that these

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kinds of things in various formats can can pop up

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in different places.

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Yeah, I mean again for me, I'm just I'm again.

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I was, like I said, happy that it exists, Like,

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you know, am I going to go to Vegas for it?

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No?

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Am I happy it exists? Yes?

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What I go for crampus, I'm not even sure, only

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if there's other things in the area, because again, they're

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just adding stuff to the midway, right, So we'll do

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it if you're in Vegas.

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But that's right, special trip for it. And I think

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exactly the target audience.

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That's the target audience exactly, that that's what it's built for.

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So I think that that kind of strain. So switching

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topics now, just briefly. So I drove up to Medford

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organ to interview a gentleman there who listens to the

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show a lot for a year head listeners in the

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beginning and has tried to take everything I think that

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Scott has written in his books and try and take

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everything to heart and has made a five year plan.

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You know, where he started with there's one Haunt billion,

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then he's expanded it into a thirty thousand square foot

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building with three attractions and a midway and there's story,

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and I mean, it's it's done well. But even when

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I just did a interview with him, and even in

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the interview, he's talking about that concept of like, you know,

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basically he was like, he made this Invasion inspired Haunt

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where it's about alien abductions, and he made one that

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is about like Indiana Jones but horror movie, you know,

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like inspire and so great. And then he was like,

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and then we had to do clowns because everybody kept

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asking if we had done clowns or where the clowns

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were and all that. He's like, and we just we

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just had to do it because and he mentions this

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about the local market and what they expect and how

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it was all his dream to buy a big orgle

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or prop but the market wouldn't care, like that money

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would be you know, better spent on other elements that

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the market would be more interested in than it would

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be this thing, even though he wanted it, and he

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because he knows all the haunts, but that's not the

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market doesn't know that because they're in Medford, organ which

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is kind of in the middle of nowhere, Like it's

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not it's four hours from Portland, right, and it's it's

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thirty minutes from the California border, but it's way way north,

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so it's you know, it's unlikely you're going to get

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you're going to pull people from San Francisco or Portland,

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so you're pulling people that are not that don't have

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any major attractions in their space of just what what

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they expect is different. So but it was it's really

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funny to hear that, because it's like as much even

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as you if you know right that you that the haunt,

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or that you know that that clowns are cliche or this,

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or that there is a part of it where in

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less mature markets, that's what the people expect. They expect

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cliche things because that's what they're used to.

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And I think it's I think it's essential to know,

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you know what the market will bear years and years

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ago for for Valley Fair, I was hired to write

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a haunt that it was interesting because they said, here,

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this was my challenge. They said, we want something that

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ties directly to the the Minnesotan audience. But these are

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the people, these are not the people who can who

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can handle too esoteric a concept, so so don't go

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too far. So I wrote, I wrote a haunt called Berserkers,

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which was based on a Viking myth. So you know

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Minnesota Vikings team. So it was based on a Viking

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myth and it was in essence a werewolf story, but

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it was when we originally wrote it, and I never

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actually saw it produced, so I don't know how how

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much they tried. They tried to keep as much of

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it as possible from what I understand, but it was

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sort of the were wolf versus the wear bear. And

236
00:12:09.240 --> 00:12:12.000
so it was basically about these these Viking warriors that

237
00:12:12.039 --> 00:12:17.759
would consume this strange potion that would transform them into

238
00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:21.799
half human and half animal. And and I asked them,

239
00:12:21.799 --> 00:12:23.240
I said, is this too esoteric? And they said, no,

240
00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:25.799
they get were wolves, they'll understand where wolves, they'll understand

241
00:12:25.840 --> 00:12:28.519
where bears. And had it been in a different market

242
00:12:28.559 --> 00:12:31.200
with a different a different audience, I might have gone

243
00:12:31.240 --> 00:12:35.000
a little bit you know, creepier and well creepier for me,

244
00:12:35.559 --> 00:12:38.440
and and dove into the folklore just a little bit

245
00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:40.480
more and instead of just drinking something. It was a

246
00:12:40.559 --> 00:12:43.519
ritual you'd have to go through. But the idea of

247
00:12:44.080 --> 00:12:47.320
let's get to the let's get something we understand, yeah,

248
00:12:47.480 --> 00:12:52.399
was imperative and essential for that for that market. So yeah,

249
00:12:52.399 --> 00:12:54.559
it's really important to kind of know what your market

250
00:12:54.559 --> 00:12:57.879
will bear. And I'm a firm believer that you kind

251
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of write to what the market will bear and then

252
00:13:00.559 --> 00:13:02.320
each year push it just a little bit, so you

253
00:13:02.360 --> 00:13:04.679
train your market, you train your market to get better

254
00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:06.440
and better. I mean, like here I went to I

255
00:13:06.440 --> 00:13:09.559
went to Hallow Scream at bush Guards last night and

256
00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:14.559
the event, well, I'm going to say the event is back.

257
00:13:14.679 --> 00:13:17.759
This is the second golden Age of hallow Scream and

258
00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:21.919
I'm really I worked on that event for the first

259
00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:27.840
fifteen years and both from a creative standpoint and a

260
00:13:27.879 --> 00:13:32.840
production standpoint and operation standpoint. And although it is a

261
00:13:32.840 --> 00:13:35.600
slightly smaller event, I got to walk around with one

262
00:13:35.639 --> 00:13:39.000
of my former employees who is now the man in charge,

263
00:13:39.039 --> 00:13:42.279
and so many of the people from the olden days

264
00:13:42.919 --> 00:13:45.120
have now moved up and our in powers are in

265
00:13:45.159 --> 00:13:51.559
positions of power and positions of managerial capacity. And Chris

266
00:13:51.559 --> 00:13:53.559
and I were talking as we walked around in it,

267
00:13:53.559 --> 00:13:55.360
it's interesting. It was very interesting for me to go

268
00:13:55.440 --> 00:13:58.879
back because he was able to do so many of

269
00:13:58.879 --> 00:14:01.000
the things that I wanted to do, just because we

270
00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:02.960
kept saying over and over throughout the course of the night,

271
00:14:03.279 --> 00:14:06.080
it's a different world, you know. The parks are different,

272
00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:09.360
especially bush Gardens is different. They've taken a lot more

273
00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:11.879
in house, which I would have loved to have done

274
00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:15.440
but was not allowed to back in the day. They've

275
00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:21.279
they've basically taken so many of the of my of

276
00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:23.039
the old Hant actors that I used to work with

277
00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:26.360
are now creative trainers. They have creative trainers for they

278
00:14:26.440 --> 00:14:28.679
like five, four or five creative trainers for the event,

279
00:14:29.279 --> 00:14:31.799
and that way the stage managers are solely operational for

280
00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:34.960
each of the haunts. But my my favorite comment of

281
00:14:34.960 --> 00:14:37.159
the night because we said it, Chris and I both

282
00:14:37.159 --> 00:14:39.240
said it at the same time. He said, we really

283
00:14:39.279 --> 00:14:42.480
wanted to do we really wanted to do six houses,

284
00:14:43.480 --> 00:14:46.759
but we only have five. And then simultaneously we both said,

285
00:14:46.799 --> 00:14:49.840
better to do five really well than six with one

286
00:14:49.840 --> 00:14:53.600
that's mediocre or all six that become mediocre. And I

287
00:14:53.600 --> 00:14:56.639
will say that the five haunts that they have are stellar,

288
00:14:57.039 --> 00:14:59.519
and they did not get rid of clowns completely. There

289
00:14:59.559 --> 00:15:03.039
is a clown scare zone because again to your point,

290
00:15:03.519 --> 00:15:07.039
clowns are a staple. There is a chainsaw scare zone.

291
00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:12.279
There is. But the haunts are very clever, very well done,

292
00:15:12.519 --> 00:15:15.759
very well done, and in true Bush Gardens form. And

293
00:15:15.799 --> 00:15:17.480
this is the thing that excites me the most because

294
00:15:17.480 --> 00:15:20.879
it takes me back to the early days. The focus.

295
00:15:21.080 --> 00:15:25.200
Although the scenic is excellent and beautiful, the focus is

296
00:15:25.240 --> 00:15:28.039
still on the actors. It's still on the performers, making

297
00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:34.080
it more terrifying than than anything an animation can do.

298
00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:37.840
So it's it's and and they're packed. They're they're really

299
00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:40.039
you know, they've designed them well so that each actor

300
00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:44.879
has at least two, if not three scare positions and

301
00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:48.600
that they can basically scare the same guests three times.

302
00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:56.200
Really well designed, you know, Chris Lasnik, Brad Tucker, I'm

303
00:15:56.240 --> 00:15:58.440
gonna miss people. But it's the whole Busch Gardens team

304
00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:04.879
that has just really ramped up their game. They're in

305
00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:07.960
the event is in really good shape in my opinion.

306
00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:09.759
But one of the things that I found interesting, and

307
00:16:09.799 --> 00:16:11.919
I wanted to ask you about this in regards because

308
00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:14.440
I'm kind of slipping into our our tropes and trends here.

309
00:16:15.039 --> 00:16:17.240
One of the things that they did is in order

310
00:16:17.279 --> 00:16:23.879
to maintain maintain their budget, but also make certain that

311
00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:27.919
they have critical mass as far as content goes. Uh.

312
00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:31.480
They did fewer scare zones or smaller scare zones, but

313
00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:37.639
they peppered photo ops throughout the park. So and their

314
00:16:37.679 --> 00:16:41.360
there standalone photo ops. I think only two of them

315
00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:44.559
have photographers, but the rest of them are all you know,

316
00:16:44.600 --> 00:16:48.279
take them on your own camera. They pulled out props

317
00:16:48.320 --> 00:16:50.559
that were not being used from their from their storage

318
00:16:50.559 --> 00:16:56.159
facility and deck them up, lit them well, just to help,

319
00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:58.039
you know, to help people create content and to help

320
00:16:58.080 --> 00:17:03.399
people post more about the event. And I didn't walk

321
00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:06.039
by a single one through the entire night that didn't

322
00:17:06.079 --> 00:17:09.480
have somebody taking a photo. Yeah, is that happening in

323
00:17:09.559 --> 00:17:11.759
other places? Is that kind of photo op mentality happening

324
00:17:11.799 --> 00:17:14.079
in other locations, Philip that you've seen, because you see

325
00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:15.119
a lot more of these than I do.

326
00:17:15.799 --> 00:17:17.440
I think that well.

327
00:17:17.279 --> 00:17:20.680
Photo ops I think are always a great idea because again,

328
00:17:20.759 --> 00:17:24.880
you're encouraging people to make a memory at your event

329
00:17:25.839 --> 00:17:27.720
and kind of allowed them to do it in their

330
00:17:27.720 --> 00:17:31.599
own way. It's hard to say if they are expanding

331
00:17:31.720 --> 00:17:35.160
or not, just because I feel like every experience does

332
00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:38.559
have photo ops. I think maybe they're getting more complex

333
00:17:39.559 --> 00:17:43.039
as the haunters are like catching up with the theme

334
00:17:43.119 --> 00:17:45.640
park way of doing things. I think that they are

335
00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:46.759
getting more complex.

336
00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:49.200
But the only.

337
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:53.920
I know a few examples, like in a fear factory

338
00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:57.559
in Salt Lake City, they have a dedicated area just

339
00:17:57.599 --> 00:17:59.960
for photo ops and they read them one of their

340
00:18:00.039 --> 00:18:02.119
photo ops to be an homage to the fire that

341
00:18:02.200 --> 00:18:04.079
was there on the building. So that's that's like a

342
00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:11.240
They renovate those regularly. And then there is a in

343
00:18:12.039 --> 00:18:17.160
the Baltimore, Maryland area. There's Harrah's Nightmare, who received the

344
00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:20.160
OSCAR for best first year Haunt last year. This is

345
00:18:20.160 --> 00:18:22.920
his second year. In his second year, he said similar thing.

346
00:18:23.119 --> 00:18:25.680
It's not he's he started in year one with three hants,

347
00:18:25.720 --> 00:18:27.480
so it took him years to build it. But he

348
00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:29.400
started a year one in three haunts. So he said

349
00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:32.240
in year two he's not going to expand them because

350
00:18:32.240 --> 00:18:34.240
they're big enough, and he's not going to add another

351
00:18:34.279 --> 00:18:35.759
haunt because three is enough.

352
00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:37.079
So what he's gonna What.

353
00:18:37.119 --> 00:18:40.839
He did instead is make an eighteen room selfy experience

354
00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:44.079
for what there's all just photo ops with some actors

355
00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:48.000
and so he's hoping to have that open after Halloween

356
00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:52.279
and just change out the sets. But during the Halloween

357
00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:54.359
season it does have actors that will roam and take

358
00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:57.039
pictures with you, and that those kind of elements.

359
00:18:57.079 --> 00:19:01.640
It's interesting because two years ago Terror Roulette, which took

360
00:19:01.720 --> 00:19:04.279
the the Oscare for was that two years two years

361
00:19:04.799 --> 00:19:07.400
I think, I think so two or three years, which

362
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:11.480
took the the Oscare for Outstanding New Haunt. Uh, they've

363
00:19:11.559 --> 00:19:14.000
kind of done that throughout and I think it was

364
00:19:14.039 --> 00:19:17.240
because of labor and staffing, but they kind of shifted

365
00:19:17.519 --> 00:19:21.519
to doing making it more of a we'll call it

366
00:19:21.519 --> 00:19:26.200
a selfie museum, a spooky selfie museum. Content creators haven,

367
00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:29.920
you know, to come in and take photos. And like

368
00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:31.759
I said, I think it had to do with with

369
00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:34.720
maintaining labor costs, but I don't know that for sure

370
00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:38.079
because I'm not I wasn't involved this past year. So

371
00:19:38.319 --> 00:19:41.799
it's it's it's interesting to see that that that that's

372
00:19:41.920 --> 00:19:44.359
part of the mentality now because we didn't you know,

373
00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:47.519
we used to try to convince people not to take photographs.

374
00:19:47.519 --> 00:19:49.880
We'd try to know, it goes back to the old

375
00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:52.960
I don't know this was true at Universal in California,

376
00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:55.640
but at Universal Florida, if you were in a scare zone,

377
00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:58.119
the actors were trained to block the camera. They were

378
00:19:58.160 --> 00:19:59.680
trained to to come up and put their hand in

379
00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:01.279
front of the camera or scare in front of the

380
00:20:01.279 --> 00:20:05.480
camera so that you wouldn't get all of the entire

381
00:20:05.559 --> 00:20:10.279
experience online. But now that's shifted completely.

382
00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:12.160
Yeah, it's it's.

383
00:20:12.200 --> 00:20:16.960
Encouraging that finding ways to encourage that, so thinking, I

384
00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:18.960
you know, certainly for a marketing purpose, but it's also

385
00:20:19.319 --> 00:20:22.319
I think it's guest experience. I think they want to

386
00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:24.079
be able to say, look at the cool shot I

387
00:20:24.119 --> 00:20:27.160
got at Halloween, Hornites or whatever.

388
00:20:28.839 --> 00:20:31.559
Yeah, I think it, you know, in a weird way.

389
00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:34.440
It's an easy way to make it more interactive, in

390
00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:36.559
a way where they have you know, that they can

391
00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:39.559
take photos and they can work. But I think again

392
00:20:39.680 --> 00:20:41.279
it just goes back to the entertainment value. And I

393
00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:43.720
think it just is what is entertainment has changed a

394
00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:47.039
little bit, But I do think that ultimately, I think

395
00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:51.160
that people still enjoy interacting with the characters, and I

396
00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:54.119
think scare zones and those whole thing have have become.

397
00:20:56.119 --> 00:20:56.599
Part of that.

398
00:20:56.720 --> 00:20:58.880
Like like Q Line, actors have become much more important

399
00:20:58.920 --> 00:21:02.880
in that they you know, interact with guests but also

400
00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:05.640
help make content for it. And so it's a little

401
00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:08.079
bit of double edged sword, you know. I heard recently,

402
00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:10.640
I actually heard recently that Universal has stopped allowing their

403
00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:14.000
characters to talk because presumably because somebody one of them

404
00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:16.279
said something they shouldn't have said on a camera when

405
00:21:16.319 --> 00:21:19.839
somebody was recording, you know. But so again it is

406
00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:21.720
double kind of that double edged sword type of thing.

407
00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:24.960
But that does seem to be again, I think that's

408
00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:27.559
a big part of the entertainment nowadays, is you interacting

409
00:21:27.599 --> 00:21:30.880
with the individual performers and that fun stuff. And I'm

410
00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:34.559
trying to think at Hush there's a photo experience, but

411
00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:37.279
it's actually, if anything, I would say it's a little

412
00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:39.200
behind the times because.

413
00:21:40.680 --> 00:21:46.599
I think like at Hush they do a photo that is.

414
00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:49.400
You know, taken by a camera operator and then you

415
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:51.440
can pay five dollars to get a digital version or

416
00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:53.559
ten dollars to get a print version, and that's really

417
00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:56.680
outdated like that, that's not like nobody wants to pay

418
00:21:56.680 --> 00:21:59.640
for a photo anymore. And it doesn't matter because most

419
00:21:59.640 --> 00:22:02.720
of the one that like, the difference in quality is

420
00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:05.160
not very is not is not enough. Basically, I think

421
00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:07.160
it is the problem now that you have people with

422
00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:09.599
great cameras and cell phone that do good and low

423
00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:13.680
light and unless it's going to be an experience, it's

424
00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:14.240
just it's not.

425
00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:16.480
I think.

426
00:22:16.519 --> 00:22:18.440
Yeah, I think that's definitely behind the times. And then

427
00:22:18.599 --> 00:22:20.680
they don't have any photo ops and the the Q

428
00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:23.680
line actors don't encourage photos or videos. So it's really

429
00:22:24.160 --> 00:22:25.559
the one thing they do do is you know, they

430
00:22:25.559 --> 00:22:28.079
have the stage there in the queue line, and people

431
00:22:28.119 --> 00:22:30.720
always record the stage because people are you know, fire

432
00:22:30.799 --> 00:22:31.599
dancers and whatnot.

433
00:22:31.599 --> 00:22:33.960
Sure. Sure, it's interesting that you say that though, because

434
00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:39.759
printed photos at at Zoo Tampa at Creatures of the Night,

435
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:44.279
which again is a more family friendly experience, but they

436
00:22:44.359 --> 00:22:48.960
do as you go into their the one well we'll

437
00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:51.880
call it the three Pumpkin Haunt. The one haunt that

438
00:22:52.000 --> 00:22:53.960
is is a little bit spookier and we'll get some

439
00:22:54.000 --> 00:22:57.359
screams and startles, uh, they do a green screen photo

440
00:22:57.559 --> 00:23:00.599
as you go in, and the green screen is the

441
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:03.000
green screen backgrounds are all things that the guests need

442
00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:06.079
to interact or react to. So those little bit you know,

443
00:23:06.119 --> 00:23:08.440
screaming this way and screaming that way and as you leave.

444
00:23:08.799 --> 00:23:14.119
But those sell because they don't offer a digital only option.

445
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:18.160
They offer a print option and then for if you

446
00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:21.359
buy a print for an upsell, you can get all

447
00:23:21.400 --> 00:23:24.200
of the rest of the photos they took digitally, which

448
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:28.279
is a super smart idea really, but they do. But

449
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:30.440
those do sell well, and maybe that's because of it's

450
00:23:30.559 --> 00:23:32.920
it's a different audience. It's a family audience.

451
00:23:33.680 --> 00:23:35.200
And I know that again it's back to something you

452
00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:37.519
can't make on your own. We've talked about this before,

453
00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:42.000
but like it's just like the Magic I forgot what

454
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:43.880
their whole at Disney, but it's the same concept at Disney,

455
00:23:43.880 --> 00:23:45.920
where you take the pictures in the area and then

456
00:23:45.960 --> 00:23:48.119
they add in characters or things to it because.

457
00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:49.319
You're holding tinker Bell in your hands.

458
00:23:49.400 --> 00:23:52.160
Yeah yeah, again, Yeah, and people like those. There's plenty

459
00:23:52.160 --> 00:23:55.319
people that like those. But we didn't talk about sliders,

460
00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:56.759
and I think we wanted to talk about slide.

461
00:23:56.759 --> 00:23:58.839
I was gonna say, let's I was, let's let's move

462
00:23:58.880 --> 00:24:01.599
into our trends and tropes section. We'll finish off the

463
00:24:01.599 --> 00:24:06.960
show with that. So sliders at Busch Gardens, sliders are

464
00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:11.480
back and the pendulum since I left. Every single year

465
00:24:11.519 --> 00:24:13.240
that I was at Bush, I had to fight to

466
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:16.160
keep sliders because there's a perception, and I use that

467
00:24:16.279 --> 00:24:21.119
term very specifically, there is a perception that they have

468
00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:25.279
safety issues. But a well trained slider is no more

469
00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:29.359
dangerous than a well trained person with a chainsaw or

470
00:24:29.359 --> 00:24:34.680
a well trained person with any prop. Stilt walkers, Yeah,

471
00:24:34.680 --> 00:24:36.519
but they did something very interesting with them. Instead of

472
00:24:36.559 --> 00:24:38.839
keeping them all together, they kind of peppered them throughout

473
00:24:38.880 --> 00:24:43.599
the park. So it's not a slider zone, but sliders

474
00:24:43.640 --> 00:24:46.559
are part of multiple zones or multiple areas throughout the park,

475
00:24:46.839 --> 00:24:49.799
so they're much more of a surprise when they pop up.

476
00:24:50.359 --> 00:24:54.960
And of course sliders do things in different ways. There

477
00:24:55.039 --> 00:24:58.279
are some that, you know, back back when we did sliders,

478
00:24:58.279 --> 00:25:00.799
when I was there, we did upright sliders as opposed

479
00:25:00.839 --> 00:25:03.000
to all four sliders, you know, sliding on all fours.

480
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:06.400
But they they're some of those. There's some of the upright,

481
00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:10.200
the old school upright sliders on their knees, every spark

482
00:25:10.519 --> 00:25:14.720
gimmick you could possibly imagine. And they're back, and they're

483
00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:17.440
you know, there's obviously safety is still an issue, and

484
00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:20.240
there's still the desire or the need to convince the

485
00:25:20.279 --> 00:25:22.880
powers that be that it's a safe way to scare people.

486
00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:26.440
But I think they're I think they're trending. Again. Have

487
00:25:26.519 --> 00:25:27.400
you seen that or is.

488
00:25:27.359 --> 00:25:29.759
That just yeah, I don't think that that's a that

489
00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:34.000
that's not a single year thing. I would say they've

490
00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:37.960
been trending for the past and maybe since the pandemic.

491
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:40.000
I mean, they they've been they've been on the upswing

492
00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:45.240
for for a while. And I don't I don't know again,

493
00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:49.799
I yeah, like I don't have a problem with it personally.

494
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:53.279
I actually I like sliders personally, Like I like, I

495
00:25:53.319 --> 00:25:56.119
think that it's it can be fun. I especially like,

496
00:25:56.480 --> 00:25:58.960
you know, when they do have the friction and the

497
00:25:59.000 --> 00:26:02.200
ability to spark and that kind of a thing. I

498
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:06.319
think it's again, it's it's it reminds me of just

499
00:26:06.359 --> 00:26:09.119
like the circus where they used to have all the circus,

500
00:26:09.160 --> 00:26:11.279
like the Vampire Circus and all those things, where it's

501
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:13.839
just really like a cirk show or a regular thing,

502
00:26:13.880 --> 00:26:16.000
but they just they put makeup on. I think it's

503
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:19.920
that similar idea where it's really just a form of

504
00:26:20.440 --> 00:26:23.799
physical stunt, but then you're putting it into the Halloween

505
00:26:23.839 --> 00:26:26.200
category because what other holiday is it really going to

506
00:26:26.279 --> 00:26:29.359
fit under? And that's so so many times that happens

507
00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:33.440
with Halloween where you're like, it's in both.

508
00:26:33.240 --> 00:26:35.279
Of the books. It's in both of my books. Halloween

509
00:26:35.359 --> 00:26:36.839
is a testing ground for all kinds of things.

510
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:39.960
Yeah, and so I think that that's where you get

511
00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:41.920
the sliders that fall in there and then making it.

512
00:26:42.079 --> 00:26:43.559
I do think it's a perfect thing because it does

513
00:26:43.599 --> 00:26:46.119
scare people, it startles them. But you know what, again,

514
00:26:46.160 --> 00:26:50.319
this goes back to think I I make slider videos

515
00:26:50.519 --> 00:26:53.440
a lot, and because they have become such a staple

516
00:26:53.680 --> 00:26:56.920
of the big events like Hershey Park has the Decayed

517
00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:59.960
Brigade that they contract with to come out and do

518
00:27:00.079 --> 00:27:04.319
a nightly performance, and that thing is absolutely packed, Like

519
00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:06.240
people will line up and this is Hershey Park, And

520
00:27:06.279 --> 00:27:08.680
just keep in mind, folks, people will line up hours

521
00:27:08.720 --> 00:27:13.039
before at Hershey Park, which is it's it's lunacy and

522
00:27:13.079 --> 00:27:17.200
I've been there covering it and the aside from the

523
00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:18.799
time they're doing the show. All they're doing the rest

524
00:27:18.799 --> 00:27:21.319
of the time is taking pictures with people because people

525
00:27:21.359 --> 00:27:23.599
want pictures, you know, and they barely get any sliding in.

526
00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:28.599
But it is it is a very divisive topic because

527
00:27:28.599 --> 00:27:30.480
of what you talk about, the safety, and because a

528
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:32.720
lot of the Haunt connoisseur people say it has something

529
00:27:32.720 --> 00:27:34.200
to do with Halloween and this and that and blah

530
00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:36.279
blah blah. And I always go back to, like, the

531
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:39.000
main point of the experience is to entertain people, and

532
00:27:39.079 --> 00:27:41.079
if this is what people find entertaining nowadays, if they

533
00:27:41.079 --> 00:27:45.640
want to watch these basically skateboarders, you know, you know,

534
00:27:46.119 --> 00:27:49.599
slide around on the ground and make sparks in makeup

535
00:27:49.640 --> 00:27:52.920
that they put on themselves in many cases, fine, like

536
00:27:53.039 --> 00:27:55.279
who you know again, who cares back?

537
00:27:55.440 --> 00:27:58.400
This goes back to, you know, the different ways that

538
00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:02.000
sliders have been have been handled too. Bush Tampa, for example,

539
00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:04.920
has never done a slider show. They've never done a

540
00:28:04.960 --> 00:28:08.000
slider show. They've never sliders. Have done stunts and tricks,

541
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:09.960
but they've never done a slider show. They've always been

542
00:28:10.079 --> 00:28:12.960
characters who use sliding as a scare tactic. Yeah, I

543
00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:15.640
have that, I do too, I do too. And that's

544
00:28:15.640 --> 00:28:17.039
why I was very adamant about it, and I was

545
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:19.319
really glad to see that when I went back this year.

546
00:28:19.599 --> 00:28:21.759
That was their approach when they brought them back, is

547
00:28:21.799 --> 00:28:24.319
to make them a party of their becoming thing.

548
00:28:24.960 --> 00:28:25.119
Though.

549
00:28:25.200 --> 00:28:29.359
Yeah, I mean it's it's it's really it's really impactful. Okay,

550
00:28:29.480 --> 00:28:32.880
So let's let's move on to another controversial topic. Chainsaws,

551
00:28:33.319 --> 00:28:33.880
Yes or no?

552
00:28:34.759 --> 00:28:38.200
Well, I think it's this. It's it's similar, right because

553
00:28:40.279 --> 00:28:42.799
I don't know, everyone just loves chainsaws. Again, what are

554
00:28:42.839 --> 00:28:43.240
you gonna do?

555
00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:44.319
Like, what do you do?

556
00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:47.440
It's I think again it goes back to how mature

557
00:28:47.480 --> 00:28:49.559
your market is. If you're in a very mature market

558
00:28:49.559 --> 00:28:51.359
with a lot of competition, I think you could cut

559
00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:53.519
the chainsaw. But if you're not, then you need it

560
00:28:53.559 --> 00:28:56.640
because that's what people are going to expect. That's Halloween

561
00:28:57.720 --> 00:29:01.960
in their brains, right in America, at least in America,

562
00:29:02.079 --> 00:29:05.279
is to have that component. And again it's similar to

563
00:29:05.279 --> 00:29:07.920
the slider, where like there are people that just love

564
00:29:08.000 --> 00:29:11.039
to be scared by chainsaws. I don't know, but it's

565
00:29:11.079 --> 00:29:13.160
in Asia. It's not a thing. You know, in Asia,

566
00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:15.119
it's not at all a thing, and people look at

567
00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:17.240
you weird. They're like, why would a chainsaw be scary?

568
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:20.640
Well, it's interesting because with me, a chainsaw is fine

569
00:29:20.759 --> 00:29:23.599
as long as it makes sense within the concept. A

570
00:29:23.640 --> 00:29:26.440
clown with a chainsaw makes no sense to me. A

571
00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.400
cannibal with a chainsaw makes sense to me. So, you know.

572
00:29:30.720 --> 00:29:32.079
But one of the things, again going back to what

573
00:29:32.119 --> 00:29:32.640
Bush did, and I.

574
00:29:32.640 --> 00:29:34.640
Think a clown with a chainsaw, which is a scare

575
00:29:34.720 --> 00:29:36.359
zone at Universal every year.

576
00:29:36.720 --> 00:29:41.440
Yeah, I know, I know, been there, done that, you know.

577
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:43.480
But but I will say one of the things that

578
00:29:43.480 --> 00:29:46.680
Bush did really well is they did they did one

579
00:29:48.119 --> 00:29:53.920
one scare zone that is relatively short. It is the

580
00:29:54.279 --> 00:29:57.480
scenic is basically a bunch of pine trees, So it's

581
00:29:57.519 --> 00:29:59.680
like you're going through a pine forest and you have

582
00:29:59.720 --> 00:30:04.279
these crazed, wicked, evil lumberjack characters it and the entire

583
00:30:04.680 --> 00:30:06.799
the entire area. It's in a it's in an arbor,

584
00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:10.720
so the entire area just echoes with the sound of chainsaws,

585
00:30:10.720 --> 00:30:12.920
so you know they're there. It builds a nice sense

586
00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:15.319
of anticipation, and then when they finally come out to

587
00:30:15.359 --> 00:30:19.119
do the scare, it releases that sense of anticipation, which

588
00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:22.680
is exactly what you want to do with scares. There

589
00:30:22.680 --> 00:30:25.519
are some. You know, I agree with you. It's impossible

590
00:30:25.519 --> 00:30:29.000
to find a replacement. Believe me. I've tried for many,

591
00:30:29.039 --> 00:30:32.200
many years. And you know, there's there's leaf blowers, but

592
00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:34.039
there's nothing threatening about a leaf blower.

593
00:30:34.279 --> 00:30:36.559
A lot of things, you know, but yeah, they're not

594
00:30:36.599 --> 00:30:38.759
as threatening in America at least, I think.

595
00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:43.119
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. So is there any other

596
00:30:43.200 --> 00:30:44.839
trend or trope? We're almost out of time? Is there

597
00:30:44.839 --> 00:30:47.079
any other trend or trope that you wanted to throw

598
00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:50.039
out there before we finish off our little Halloween special here,

599
00:30:50.519 --> 00:30:52.359
because we're gonna have to. We've got so many things

600
00:30:52.359 --> 00:30:53.759
we still want to talk about, so we're gonna have

601
00:30:53.799 --> 00:30:55.480
to carry it on into the Patreon show. Yeah.

602
00:30:55.559 --> 00:30:58.799
Let let's us go to our Patreon show and we're

603
00:30:58.839 --> 00:31:02.440
gonna we'll keep talking. Came there about Halloween and trends

604
00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:04.079
because yeah, I made we made a whole like list

605
00:31:04.160 --> 00:31:05.559
or I made a list and then we just yeah,

606
00:31:05.559 --> 00:31:06.119
Philip made.

607
00:31:06.000 --> 00:31:08.680
A list and and we you know, got about it

608
00:31:08.680 --> 00:31:10.799
at all. But you may put four points on it,

609
00:31:10.839 --> 00:31:14.440
which was very nice. Yeah, four whole points. But anyway,

610
00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:17.559
so guys, happy Halloween. I hope the Halloween season is

611
00:31:17.599 --> 00:31:19.279
treating you, well, I hope you've had a great time.

612
00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:21.079
I hope you've had a chance to get out and

613
00:31:21.880 --> 00:31:25.759
visit some some haunts and uh so, because I know

614
00:31:25.799 --> 00:31:29.599
we have, and so I hope you learn stuff too,

615
00:31:29.640 --> 00:31:31.359
because that's the most important reason to go see other

616
00:31:31.359 --> 00:31:33.559
people's haunts, is to see what's working and what's not

617
00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:35.920
and how you can adapt it for your audience. So

618
00:31:36.240 --> 00:31:39.680
that's probably the biggest takeaway from this particular show. So

619
00:31:39.759 --> 00:31:42.480
on behalf of Philip Ernandez and myself Scott Swinson. This

620
00:31:42.519 --> 00:31:44.480
is Green Tag Theme Park in thirty We will see

621
00:31:44.480 --> 00:31:45.960
you next week and happy Halloween.